To discerning fans this has been obvious for sometime. The day the glazers didn't take out a dividend should have been the biggest red flag that things are soooo bad. Think about it, these dudes took dividends out through out the covid years and suddenly choose not to. They only reason that makes sense is they were not able to do so. Manutd must be in much worse condition financially than is publicly known especially when you consider that they are talking to buyers. The true cost of mismanagement will come to light when the new owners come on board and find empty accounts
Has the money run out? - probably not. No one knows.
- Thread starter pacifictheme
- Start date
The knee-jerk doom and gloom 
The title of the thread is misleading. Read the article is what I’d say.
Everyone keeps saying read the article but I still don't get what Ducker is trying to say.
If as part of sale, previous transfer debts are cleared, wouldn't that mean we start with a clean slate?
If not how is any club going to be able to afford spending say 100m on Bellingham/Enzo/whoever else? How can Liverpool buy Bellingham for 100m or Chelsea keep spending all this money? Or Arsenal keep spending?
If as part of sale, previous transfer debts are cleared, wouldn't that mean we start with a clean slate?
If not how is any club going to be able to afford spending say 100m on Bellingham/Enzo/whoever else? How can Liverpool buy Bellingham for 100m or Chelsea keep spending all this money? Or Arsenal keep spending?
Amen. Its also high time we stopped blowing ridiculous money on players. It is what has gotten us into the current situation we are in. There are players out there that would significantly improve us and would not cost an arm and a leg. We just have to look properly.
Problem is then you have to replace at least 5 of those players with other players of similar value seeing as that's much of our bench
Yeah this definitely seems like a "clicks" headline. Basically we are screwed if we are bought by a similar owner to FSG (which wouldn't make sense as who would spend 6b and then NOT invest heavily into the club) AND we miss out on CL. A lot of things have to go wrong for that headline to occur
Utd are still one of the largest franchises in sport, the debts thanks to the Glazers and our wage bill to turn over are manageable, time out of the top 4 has had an impact but not at the nose dive stage yet by a long way.
Bottom line loathe them or loathe them the Glazers are shrewd businessmen, they have milked the club good and proper, if they do not sell expect the same model of player spending to continue, the big issue being no investment in the infrastructure.
I think the FFP noises are an excuse the Glazers anticipate a sale and do not see spunking a lot of money now as a deal maker/breaker, so quite simple anything they do not spend is money in their back pocket, I can see a sale being agreed at a lower price, lets face it whatever they sell for it is all profit. You are selling your house do you spend £20k on a new conservatory to add £5k value to the sale, well maybe you do but then you are an idiot.
And in terms of January spend, we have no information to suggest that ETH wants to spend but has been prevented, trying to secure a stop gap player or player on the cheap maybe all driven from ETH with a view to how he wants to develop the squad, with the understanding that players he would prefer to invest more in will be available in the summer, it maybe, and I would hope he is aware of the player recruitment strategy for next 12-18 months and and that is preserving his budget rather than making knee jerk purchases. ETH does not strike me as a man who would sit back and take s"£t and be quiet about it.
If as posters above have suggested the Glazers are covering up the true extent of how bad our finances are and them not taking dividends is proof of this, I find it hard to believe that they would authorise teh player expenditure we have seen in the summer, I suspect it just forms part of their financial strategy, probably to do with debt restructuring if they do not sell.
Bottom line loathe them or loathe them the Glazers are shrewd businessmen, they have milked the club good and proper, if they do not sell expect the same model of player spending to continue, the big issue being no investment in the infrastructure.
I think the FFP noises are an excuse the Glazers anticipate a sale and do not see spunking a lot of money now as a deal maker/breaker, so quite simple anything they do not spend is money in their back pocket, I can see a sale being agreed at a lower price, lets face it whatever they sell for it is all profit. You are selling your house do you spend £20k on a new conservatory to add £5k value to the sale, well maybe you do but then you are an idiot.
And in terms of January spend, we have no information to suggest that ETH wants to spend but has been prevented, trying to secure a stop gap player or player on the cheap maybe all driven from ETH with a view to how he wants to develop the squad, with the understanding that players he would prefer to invest more in will be available in the summer, it maybe, and I would hope he is aware of the player recruitment strategy for next 12-18 months and and that is preserving his budget rather than making knee jerk purchases. ETH does not strike me as a man who would sit back and take s"£t and be quiet about it.
If as posters above have suggested the Glazers are covering up the true extent of how bad our finances are and them not taking dividends is proof of this, I find it hard to believe that they would authorise teh player expenditure we have seen in the summer, I suspect it just forms part of their financial strategy, probably to do with debt restructuring if they do not sell.
Club finally putting out the right type of message.
Maybe we're turning the corner? Who knows.
Maybe we're turning the corner? Who knows.
I'm pretty sure @Messier1994 did a whole thread on this a few weeks back? He said what Ducker did.
I'm guessing he got his information from that thread.
I'm guessing he got his information from that thread.
Wierd pic of Maguire as it was widely discussed it was a cash up front deal
So you're saying @Messier1994 is DuckerI'm pretty sure @Messier1994 did a whole thread on this a few weeks back? He said what Ducker did.
I'm guessing he got his information from that thread.
Technically he was/is right because dreams include nightmares.
Well of course persistent failure to qualify for the champs league will impact our ability to afford to buy the very top players. That's why consistent qualification in future is absolutely vital if we want to improve. (And it'll enhance the brand, which is good for the noodle salesmen in the club).
And of course we need to recoup the costs of underperforming players on very expensive contracts - we should be doing this anyway. Nobody can afford to keep throwing £200m into new players without funds from offloading the old. If we had a £175m or so transfer budget each season assuming CL qualification, why shouldn't £50m of it be coming from player sales? That's possible with some smart business and player development, isn't it?
We have been so poor at playing the transfer market, managing our budgets and moving players on for a profit; we used to be so good at that. The Glazers are SHIT operators.
Any well run club of our status should be doing these things anyway, I don't see the big deal in Drucker's article.
And of course we need to recoup the costs of underperforming players on very expensive contracts - we should be doing this anyway. Nobody can afford to keep throwing £200m into new players without funds from offloading the old. If we had a £175m or so transfer budget each season assuming CL qualification, why shouldn't £50m of it be coming from player sales? That's possible with some smart business and player development, isn't it?
We have been so poor at playing the transfer market, managing our budgets and moving players on for a profit; we used to be so good at that. The Glazers are SHIT operators.
Any well run club of our status should be doing these things anyway, I don't see the big deal in Drucker's article.
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I don't think it was that bad. I think the sequence was, we need to invest much more than originally budgeted, with ETH's accession. Our cash position has been under strain, maybe a covid issue there. They tried to get an outside investor(Apollo) to inject some money, if you can recall, and they backed out. When that fell thru, they didn't take the dividend, because the money wasn't there. I reckon it was all related to the need to finance this year's budget over spend.
This summarises everything perfectly.
Alright, which one is it @Messier1994
This isn't some misdirection. The club has tried everyway to tell us that last summer's spending will impact windows within the near future. Also likely reason the Glazers are trying to raise external funds in the first place. It raises major red flags how their mismanagement has created such an untenable situation even they are considering jumping ship. The summer makes one so angry because even fans on the internet could foresee how our inaction would only create a disadvantageous late window panic. Casemiro and Antony as quality as they are didn't need to cost us our next couple transfer windows if we moved with diligence.
I read today that ETH needs to sell 4: Maguire/AWB/DvB and Fred to generate funds for a new striker and a new midfielder, so to answer the question in the thread title, 'Yes'.
If that generates 80-100m and we have another 80-120m to spend that should get us a striker, a CM, and backup RB.
Oh well it must be true then if you read it. feck me.
And what are the actual consequences for breaching FFP? I haven't looked into the new rules tbh.
If we get new owners and wipe the slate clean of debt, then we're an economic giant with unparalleled revenue generation and the perfect platform to be the most powerful club in Europe from a financial standpoint.
I think it's a given that we're going to see heavy investment if we get taken over by owners with infinetly deep pockets. Stadium, players, training ground, the lot. It's hard to see FFP constraining us, when especially when you look at Barca on the brink all summer, selling TV rights and doing all sorts to keep their heads afloat while buying Lewandowski, Kounde, Raphina and Co.
Let's face it, in reality, there is one set of FFP rules for the regular clubs, and another for the giants. I don't see how the deals that we've seen get done for the likes of Hazard, Mbappe, Dembele, Neymar, Coutinho could have been possible without the big guns waving the middle finger at FFP.
Unless there's been a complete overhaul (which if there has, then I do apologise for my ignorance).
Without the debt we're just another big club. We probably can spend 100-150 constantly every year and that it.
Where's this myth that we could outspend anyone. We're not the biggest club financially even if you discount the oil clubs.
Except that we would also need to bring in a new CB and RB if both Bissaka and Maguire are sold.
And Tuanzebe is out of contract in June, btw.
Do these rules affect RM & Barcelona?
Haven't we basically spent that much post Fergie with the debt servicing and many years out of the CL?
I think our fanbase, our commercial power and the history of the club would put us in the top top tier alongside Real Madrid and a select few other clubs if we could just right things on the pitch and win trophies again.
Maguire £20 million tops, AWB 10, DvB 10 Fred maybe 30 million: that is a total of £70 million - that is going to get who? certainly not a world class striker and De Jong.
It amazes me how many fans don't realise that when you sell players they need to be replaced.
- If we sell Maguire, Bailly, Tuanzebe and Jones that money will need to go towards at least 1 centre back.
- If we let both Mctominay and Donny go we need 2 new midfielders, not 1.
- If AWB is sold then that money needs to go towards a new right back.
- The money for Henderson may need to go towards a goalkeeper.
If we sold all those players you listed and only bought a striker and a midfield then it would be a disaster, we'd have destroyed our depth in several areas.
Another thing people don't consider is the limit on foreign players we can register. We can't just offload all our homegrown players and replace them with more attractive foreign names unfortunately.
I'm not saying we shouldn't sell the players listed, but we must recognise that it's not just free money we can spend on star striker/midfielder, every player we sell we're increasing the number of players we need to sign in return.
It amazes me how many fans don't read all the posts on a thread before launching into a rant. I cleared up the reasoning in a subsequent thread.
I explained in a subsequent post the reasoning.
In terms of the RB is Williams, or Laird worse than AWB as bench options? Especially if AWB is basically never going to play anyway.
In terms of CBs, I said in the subsequent post we may be light, but if Maguire is not the future and is 5th choice at best then I would rather we had a project from the youth team or from a lower league, who is cheaper in fee and cheaper in wages. Even without Maguire, Bailly and Tuanzebe we would have the following - Varane, Martinez, Lindelof, Shaw, Casemiro, Project CB, Potentially McTom if they choose to sell Fred instead (which I suspect if we do bring in a midfielder we can move on one of McFred).
Isn't this rather obvious? Obviously we can't afford to shell out 200M a season unless we qualify for the CL, and obviously we can't add more wages to the budget unless we can sell players who already clog up our wage bill. If we get a decent fee for them, that helps us cover the cost of new players.
Seems fairly straightforward to me.
Seems fairly straightforward to me.
Forget FFP, the signs of trouble have been there for nearly five years.
We have run up extraordinary operating losses in the last few years. This is on the back of large interest expenses, dividend payouts and a desperate need for capital expenditure.
Regardless of whoever comes in, our operating margin needs to be addressed. You simply cant have a 300m+ transfer liability, barely any receivables, less than 30m cash in bank and carry on spending. You don't run a football club like that. When you see that revenues have largely plateaued, you have a decision to make.
Unless, a benefactor comes in and runs the club like a typical sugar daddy club, our big spending days are over for the foreseeable until we get our operating expenditure in order. That involves getting rid of players and wages for good fees.
Another thing I want to point out, the lack of success on the pitch was always going to have serious financial consequences. Our commercial revenues have been broadly the same level for five years and CL money is no longer a guarantee. Both Liverpool and "City" have caught up. The chicken have come home to roost.
We have run up extraordinary operating losses in the last few years. This is on the back of large interest expenses, dividend payouts and a desperate need for capital expenditure.
Regardless of whoever comes in, our operating margin needs to be addressed. You simply cant have a 300m+ transfer liability, barely any receivables, less than 30m cash in bank and carry on spending. You don't run a football club like that. When you see that revenues have largely plateaued, you have a decision to make.
Unless, a benefactor comes in and runs the club like a typical sugar daddy club, our big spending days are over for the foreseeable until we get our operating expenditure in order. That involves getting rid of players and wages for good fees.
Another thing I want to point out, the lack of success on the pitch was always going to have serious financial consequences. Our commercial revenues have been broadly the same level for five years and CL money is no longer a guarantee. Both Liverpool and "City" have caught up. The chicken have come home to roost.
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You need to read the article
No way we get £10m for Bailly and Telles. Pretty sure Axel's contract ends this year.
all i know is i seen a documentary where murtough has had to take on a second job as a police cop in america and he gets in to all kinds of bullshit due to his partner riggs. having to get a second job doesn’t scream “finances is going well” to me.
What about all that internet money, why can’t we have some of that money?
It's better than his previous job even he was that mad pilot for that team!