So got it needs posting again http://blackpeopleloveus.com/.
Has political correctness actually gone mad?
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
Thanks @vi1lain, can't disagree with what you're saying there.
I've had some fascinating discussions about this with many people over the years, for example when I visited Curacao and Suriname, and the more you get to know about it, the more complex and difficult it actually gets. For example, I'll never forget the conversation I had with an old (black) man in Suriname, who explained to me that his (black) great-grandfather was actually not enslaved, but involved in the slave trading himself. And what made it difficult for him, was that he was still benefitting from this through inheritance of money and property - and after all those years he was still not sure what to make of that.
It really is heart breaking to read about the self-hatred and it's also very important that you pointed that out. Because it's exactly the feeling that explains why some black people over here feel bad about the Black Pete tradition. But at the same time, especially the men, but some women too, they are too proud/embarassed/incapable to express these feelings, which leads to them getting extremely angry to 'compensate' for their emotions.
Which on its turn leads to many people in favour of Black Pete genuinely not understanding where that sudden and extreme angers comes from, for example at protests (we've had many protests during the last years, getting more extreme each year). They basically figure we live in a country that's very wealthy, liberal and has put great emphasis on equality compared to most of the world, and then disregard the rest.
I've had some fascinating discussions about this with many people over the years, for example when I visited Curacao and Suriname, and the more you get to know about it, the more complex and difficult it actually gets. For example, I'll never forget the conversation I had with an old (black) man in Suriname, who explained to me that his (black) great-grandfather was actually not enslaved, but involved in the slave trading himself. And what made it difficult for him, was that he was still benefitting from this through inheritance of money and property - and after all those years he was still not sure what to make of that.
It really is heart breaking to read about the self-hatred and it's also very important that you pointed that out. Because it's exactly the feeling that explains why some black people over here feel bad about the Black Pete tradition. But at the same time, especially the men, but some women too, they are too proud/embarassed/incapable to express these feelings, which leads to them getting extremely angry to 'compensate' for their emotions.
Which on its turn leads to many people in favour of Black Pete genuinely not understanding where that sudden and extreme angers comes from, for example at protests (we've had many protests during the last years, getting more extreme each year). They basically figure we live in a country that's very wealthy, liberal and has put great emphasis on equality compared to most of the world, and then disregard the rest.
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I'd say she shouldn't be getting away with that either. Discrimination is discrimination.
That conflict must be tough to deal with, and isn't too uncommon unfortunately - at least he's benefiting, he's in a much better position than most.
My honest opinion? This could be controversial but I think too many white people are too uncomfortable to really talk about racism, and I think as a result people of colour find it difficult to openly talk about racism except with other people of colour. @Jippy touched on it briefly,
This need to make others feel comfortable and not disturb their level of acceptance leads to internalising feelings, hurt and pain, which like you said can express itself in anger. Even when I respond in this thread I find myself backspacing sentences because I don't want to come across as too black militant and I realise i'm in a thread full of people who are unlikely to understand my perspective, or change theirs - yet I'm still accommodating my opinion.
The reason I say that is because most white people aren't racist, most understand blackface is wrong, the N word is a no go area, colonialism was bad etc. But when it's time to really unpick those subjects and talk in depth about the result of these things such as white privilege, cultural appropriation, lack of representation etc.
The tone changes, some don't even want to listen, others don't even care.
While they accept that racism exists, and life is harder for people of colour, it's as if by magic these things will just change by themselves, and one day we'll all live equally, but for now lets not really unpick those topics.
And if people of colour try to organise something for equality? Say Black Lives Matter for example, it turns sour quick. So we're just stuck in a continuous loop until something from both sides gives.
Here's what I think is a very good read to explain some more:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/06/opinion/why-i-changed-my-mind-about-black-pete.html?_r=0
Safety! Safety!Why is Ben Shapiro so controversial?
Why is Ben Shapiro so controversial?
He's right-wing
Ok.
I listened to him from roughly 39 minutes in (After the protests) upto 58 minutes and he seems to argue his points quite reasonably. He makes the odd cheap shot joke, but nothing over the top. My interpretation on this sort of thing is that you wait for the Q&A if you disagree with his opinion and make your counter arguments. Make him look silly by disproving his views, rather than standing around shouting "shame".
Exactly. And the worst possible response is to give him the moral highground by stopping him speaking at all. You can usually get douchebags like this to hang themselves with their own words. I know we're only seeing a controversial subset of what is really going on in US campuses but its easy to get the impression that the liberal left have forgotten how to debate these sort of issues and shout people down instead. Which means they've lost the battle before it starts.
He's a smart guy for sure, and has a lot of interesting points whether you agree with him or not. I think he can come off as quite condescending, which is probably why a lot of people don't like him
Not to worry - The people are now 'woke' and the fight against political correctness got a much needed shot in the arm with the election of Prez Trump. I think the PC/SJW weirdos will get their comeuppance in the upcoming years.
The not so silent majority has spoken and we will no longer be shamed into being 'PC'. I can already see some of the positives on social media.
The not so silent majority has spoken and we will no longer be shamed into being 'PC'. I can already see some of the positives on social media.
I hope to god this is satire.
Just 'conveying' the sentiment of the anti-pc brigade
Thank f*ck for that...
The Daily Stormer telling folks how to fight the political correctness of Twitter -
Full Article: http://www.dailystormer.com/twitter-begins-purge-of-republican-accounts/
Full Article: http://www.dailystormer.com/twitter-begins-purge-of-republican-accounts/
Oooh goodie, theyre going to move to phone trolling. That'll be better.
(Sarcasm)
(Sarcasm)
What on earth is that site?
White supremacist shite. Basically Breitbart but with a lower budget.
Yeah, I thought it was going to be a spoof site, taking the piss out of the Daily Mail tbh, not a full on Stormfront type thing.
That speech video is pathetic. Shapiro is an asshole but when did curtailing free speech became part of liberal agenda? It is the right that is supposed to shout down the opinions they don't like.
Not sure if serious.
He obviously comes from a very biased place. He spent good part of what I could muster to hear talking about how any discrimination against minorities in US is exaggerated. His ideas vehemently do need to be opposed but not by shutting down his free speech.
OMG have just come across Milo Yiannopoulos (I knew of him but hadn't really paid attention). He is utterly spot on!
Err what? You realise he does the exact things we criticise on this thread right? Namely leading twitter mobs before getting banned for it. He's the perfect example of
"racist thing"
"that's racist"
"MAH FREE SPEECH"
I disagree with some things he says (though agree with others), and while I do think he's a bit of a dick, I can't help but quite like him.
He seems to have carefully developed a persona that invites that same response from a lot of people.
Racist thing? More like 'an opinion based on what he sees and facts which may/may not seem racist to other people'
Yeah, someone posted an article earlier in this thread that says something similar. He doesn't really care about anything as long as he's getting attention and being invited on the telly.
He incited a twitter mob to racially abuse Leslie Jones.
He has charisma. He makes a lot of bold claims about feminism etc and quotes 'science' to back him up. I would be interested to see if his sources are credible. I am sceptical. I can't be bothered with Breitbart though, it is appalling journalism, preaching to the choir and is very childish. They are very effective in weaponising the approach of the left for their cause, however.
I saw an interview on that, he said some stuff, and people reacted to what he said (to her) - he says he can't and won't police the 300m ppl on twitter!
A run for high office during my lifetime....it's likely IMO (considering where the world is going these days!). I don't even say that in jest!
If you have a particular following and incite people to do something then, yes, you have a certain level of responsibility, however small.
I just happened to stumble into watching his interview on Channel4 news this evening that made me explore his other videos btw. Here it is:
https://www.channel4.com/news/milo-yiannopolous-questioned-on-donald-trump-and-stephen-bannon
https://www.channel4.com/news/milo-yiannopolous-questioned-on-donald-trump-and-stephen-bannon
'incited' how? by saying 'go on comrades, start attacking her' I think not.
From what I've read he accused her of being deployed to play the victim when she was receiving abuse. That's quite clearly him inciting his followers. It's not as bad as those giving out the abuse, granted, but I'd suspect he had a rather decent idea of what he was doing.
For all his supposed anti-liberalness and anti-left sentiment though, his uproar after having his Twitter banned and his over-exaggerated martyrdom kinds of highlights that he and his types are exactly the types they criticise: over-dramatic and focused on their own petty conflicts instead of on wider issues, and ultimately engaged in their own, cult-like social circles to which they adhere entirely.
I won't pursue this further as I honestly just don't know enough about the case/accusation.
From what I'm hearing of him though, he's defo got that 'omg he's outrageous, but somehow I think I kind of secretly agree with some of his points' about him, a bit like Brexit and Trump!
Yep. He definitely picks and choose his sources to suit his agenda but agree with everything you say.
That's part of his point and he argued it quite reasonably and quoted figures/studies and statistics.
That's how discussions and debates happen isn't it? You don't have to agree with what somebody says, but you can listen to their arguments. Well, 20 minutes of it in my case!
Missed C4N last night but just watched the Milo segment. I dont think Cathy really landed any punches on him, though I didnt think his explanation for his comment about "post truth politics" really rang true. Difficult in such a sort interview because you'd have to keep going back and asking him to elaborate on his evasions.
Interesting that they didnt interview the two journalists together but did them consecutively.
Interesting that they didnt interview the two journalists together but did them consecutively.