Has Frankie Boyle gone too far?

Ubik said:
They do mean something, because they were used for a significant amount of time, by a huge number of people, to denigrate, mock and generally aggressively put down an entire race, not to mention its derivations from slavery. It's taboo because it has a horrific past, conception and perceived meaning to it, for good reason. I would love that word to just be forgotten, it should serve no purpose. I certainly don't want it to become common.

I don't see "damn" as being similar in any way.
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That's true, but the thing is most young current and future generations won't know much about the history and don't really care.

The word only means something to them because it's been taught that it's "bad," which means the word continues to be used harmfully.

I'm not saying we should forget the abhorrent treatment some people got because it's in the past, but I believe it's possible to reduce the word's significance for the better. And it will happen over time.
 
Ubik said:
They do mean something, because they were used for a significant amount of time, by a huge number of people, to denigrate, mock and generally aggressively put down an entire race, not to mention its derivations from slavery. It's taboo because it has a horrific past, conception and perceived meaning to it, for good reason. I would love that word to just be forgotten, it should serve no purpose. I certainly don't want it to become common.

I don't see "damn" as being similar in any way.
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I think you have missed the point in what I am saying.

By "caring" wether people say these words to hurt or offend you are giving the people that are using these words as weapons the power.

If people stopped "caring" about these words, the people that use them have no power and they cannot hurt you.
 
Does anyone remember that time Jonathan Ross gave Manuel from Fawlty Towers a nosh on air while Russel Brand watched or something? That was even worse than this from what people have told me.
 
McIntyre over Boyle for me any day. You can watch his stuff with anyone you know and can feel comfortable; laugh at things that happen in your lives as well as things he picks up on from his own - after all, being an observational comedian, that's what he should be good at, no? He's good with people and is, with the general public, far better received.

Boyle just makes me squirm. His live stand-up is excruciating to watch, sometimes for the good, more often than not for the bad. On the Mock the Week he wasn't bad on the whole, but he's always bordering on that plain stupid/offensive line, that I rarely watch any more.
 
Pexbo said:
I think you have missed the point in what I am saying.

By "caring" wether people say these words to hurt or offend you are giving the people that are using these words as weapons the power.

If people stopped "caring" about these words, the people that use them have no power and they cannot hurt you.
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It isn't a word of power, it's a word that doesn't justify being said. Do you suggest we turn it into a word that we freely call black people? Because we can't change its meaning, and that is it. I'm not worried about it offending anyone, it's just a relic of a disgusting period of history, and that's really where it should stay.

That's true, but the thing is most young current and future generations won't know much about the history and don't really care.

The word only means something to them because it's been taught that it's "bad," which means the word continues to be used harmfully.

I'm not saying we should forget the abhorrent treatment some people got because it's in the past, but I believe it's possible to reduce the word's significance for the better. And it will happen over time.
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But why would you want to? It's a word that serves no purpose other than to generally demean a race. Yes, the meaning will be forgotten over time, hopefully bringing the word itself with it. As I said, it's not really the offence of it that I'm talking about, it's the origins, it's permanently tied to an era of huge racism. Don't particularly want it to continue existing in any form.
 
Some people are missing the main point - idiots watching this cnut using the "n" word" or making fun of "challenged" people can be forgiven for thinking that if its all right for him to use those things on TV then its OK for them . I really believe that that majority of his fans don't have the nous to understand that he "really doesn't mean it" or" he's saying it to make a political point"

"Jokes" of this nature shoud not be allowed
 
I saw an episode of this the other day, it was embarrasing, I almost felt sorry for him it was that bad. I don't mind him when he's toned down, but I'm not into this being as rude or controversial as possible for the sake of it. I don't know who finds the cookie monster getting wanked off from a variety of angles entertaining, but I don't
 
B Cantona said:
I saw an episode of this the other day, it was embarrasing, I almost felt sorry for him it was that bad. I don't mind him when he's toned down, but I'm not into this being as rude or controversial as possible for the sake of it. I don't know who finds the cookie monster getting wanked off from a variety of angles entertaining, but I don't
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Nearly as bad as the wanking time traveller.
 
People here don't seem to understand language... Faggot used to mean a bundle of sticks, then it became a loaded word used against homosexuals, and now it (or at least a shortened version of it) is often used about lame/annoying/rubbish people, without any intent to refer to sexuality.

Words change, and even if they don't they often just wind up losing their sting (which is why most won't be too shocked by "feck").

Putting them on a pedestal, or insisting they be put in the basement, is futile and stupid.
 
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Eriku said:
People here don't seem to understand language... Faggot used to mean a bundle of sticks, then it became a loaded word used against homosexuals, and now it (or at least a shortened version of it) is often used about lame/annoying/rubbish people, without any intent to refer to sexuality.

Words change, and even if they don't they often just wind up losing their sting (which is why most won't be too shocked by "feck").

Putting them on a pedestal, or insisting they be put in the basement, is futile and stupid.
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I'd think it's fair to say that evolution of the word isn't a coincidence. Should we start calling people that we see as of less worth as humans than us the n-word, too? Just make sure it's not specifically against black people? I don't think we should.

You say it's futile and stupid, what, because there are words that have changed meanings over the hundreds of years? Of course there are. I'd imagine there are a whole lot that have vanished from knowledge and recollection, too.

I'm well aware that language evolves and changes. Doesn't mean all of it has to, I'm more than willing for some to become extinct. Natural selection, and all that...
 
nemanja15 said:
You can watch his stuff with anyone you know and can feel comfortable; laugh at things that happen in your lives as well as things he picks up on from his own - after all, being an observational comedian, that's what he should be good at, no? He's good with people and is, with the general public, far better received.
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No, McIntyre is just an unfunny fat feck with wobbly hair.
 
I went to Frankie Boyle's show in Liverpool the other week and thoroughly enjoyed it. He was very funny and they way he worked the crowd and responded to hecklers was top class. His use of words such as 'paki' and 'nigger' were far from the most shocking aspects of his routine. Even I was shocked that he dared to even mention Baby P and the parents of madeline mccann! Wasn't as bad as it sounds though to be fair.
 
I got called a "white cnut" in Tesco's the other day by some old dude who mistook me for someone who bumped him with a trolley.

My first thought wasn't "he's racist!" and then start trying to remember history behind the word and modern interpretations. I was more pissed off about the cnut part.
 
golden_blunder said:
his TV show is amongst the biggest pile of shite on telly at the moment
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Not THE biggest for me, but definitely up there.


Moz said:
I went to Frankie Boyle's show in Liverpool the other week and thoroughly enjoyed it. He was very funny and they way he worked the crowd and responded to hecklers was top class. His use of words such as 'paki' and 'nigger' were far from the most shocking aspects of his routine. Even I was shocked that he dared to even mention Baby P and the parents of madeline mccann! Wasn't as bad as it sounds though to be fair.
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I've seen a lot of this new 't.v' bunch live and he was brilliant and by far the best at working the crowd. I don't agree with the 'just being shocking to get crowds' bunch, I think a lot of the near the knuckle stuff is well thought out if crudely delivered.
 
If we're going to ban the word nigger, then we also have to ban the words retard, spastic and faggot, as well as all the other words that have the potential to be deeply offensive to some people. Does anyone really believe that the word nigger is more offensive to viewers than the word spastic or retard, for example?

Rather than simply looking at words and deciding if they are too offensive to be broadcast or not, we should look at the context. Having just watched the section of Boyle's show in question, I don't think there is anything offensive in it other than the words used. No offensive meaning is put behind them. Given his reputation and the nature of the programme, I'd say he hasn't gone too far. He has gone further in the past.
 
Watching repeats of Mock the Week, especially when appearing alongside Michael McIntyre, really brings home why he doesn't really need to resort to some of things he's said. His timing is razor sharp and he's a very natural comic.
 
Shame about Tramadol nights, I agree he doesn't need to try so hard to offend as on form he is one of the funniest writers on television. The list of credits to his name is extremely impressive.

This remains the funniest line ever delivered on Mock the Week.:

YouTube - Frankie Boyle - TV Review.wmv


I can't embed it, no matter how I try!
 
Eriku said:
People here don't seem to understand language... Faggot used to mean a bundle of sticks, then it became a loaded word used against homosexuals, and now it (or at least a shortened version of it) is often used about lame/annoying/rubbish people, without any intent to refer to sexuality.

Words change, and even if they don't they often just wind up losing their sting (which is why most won't be too shocked by "feck").
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It might derive from faggot meaning bundle of sticks, but it might be an unrelated root, possibly connected to public-school fagging, or to the yiddish faygele, literally 'little bird' but generally meaning gay... a word my grandfather used to mutter, to general bemusement, whenever Peter Sissons appeared on the news.

None of which changes your point about language evolution, of course. In fact faggot as a term of abuse used to mean an old or rough woman.

Putting them on a pedestal, or insisting they be put in the basement, is futile and stupid.
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Not sure I agree with this, the fact that nigger isn't generally used by white people anymore, aside from bigots, shows that it's far from futile. But it's notable that calls for it to be let out of the basement generally come from white people who've never experienced what it's like to be racially abused.

Of course a case like this comedian's is quite different, there's nothing wrong with using it when impersonating bigots for satirical effect.
 
beacon said:
Shame about Tramadol nights, I agree he doesn't need to try so hard to offend as on form he is one of the funniest writers on television. The list of credits to his name is extremely impressive.

This remains the funniest line ever delivered on Mock the Week.:

YouTube - Frankie Boyle - TV Review.wmv


I can't embed it, no matter how I try!
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Thought episode one of tramadol nights was quite good. The night rider sketch cracked me up.
 
Plechazunga said:
It might derive from faggot meaning bundle of sticks, but it might be an unrelated root, possibly connected to public-school fagging, or to the yiddish faygele, literally 'little bird' but generally meaning gay... a word my grandfather used to mutter, to general bemusement, whenever Peter Sissons appeared on the news.

None of which changes your point about language evolution, of course. In fact faggot as a term of abuse used to mean an old or rough woman.



Not sure I agree with this, the fact that nigger isn't generally used by white people anymore, aside from bigots, shows that it's far from futile. But it's notable that calls for it to be let out of the basement generally come from white people who've never experienced what it's like to be racially abused.

Of course a case like this comedian's is quite different, there's nothing wrong with using it when impersonating bigots for satirical effect.
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Etymological point taken, but on your point of restricting use, part of the word's intensity is derived from its being a word that people insist on being uptight about... I mean, the word used with negative intent is a bad thing, but you can be completely clearly not a racist and use the word jokingly and you'll still find some people who tilt and insist it's not up for grabs, which I reckon is a bit much.

Yes it has been successfully restricted, in a way... And yet it's also still used loads... But my main point is that it's just a word and we may very well see it make a comeback with a different meaning and no negative connotations in, say, 100 years.

All very much IMHO, of course. I have not been exposed to too many racist slurs, certainly there isn't really a word that carries that weight for any group I'm part of, but I don't think it would magically change my principles on how language should be used.
 
Yeah, I mean it's already been reclaimed to an extent. And it's ridiculous getting angry about it when the context is an impersonation of an obviously bigoted colonial, in an attempt to take the piss out of that sort of person.
 
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