Last time I looked, Laporte was injured and City had lost as many games as we had before Arsenal loss....
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Last time I looked, Laporte was injured and City had lost as many games as we had before Arsenal loss....
I dont buy the narrative that Maguire has turned to shit since he's pulled on the red shirt. He's had some very decent displays for us coupled with a fair few underwhelming ones.
Basically that has always been his form. He's a good defender with a couple of very good attributes to his game that we've seen.
But his ridiculous fee was nowhere near his ability. Nowhere.
His recent form has little to do with him being a United player.
This was his form last season. Basically,up and down.
Basically that has always been his form. He's a good defender with a couple of very good attributes to his game that we've seen.
But his ridiculous fee was nowhere near his ability. Nowhere.
His recent form has little to do with him being a United player.
This was his form last season. Basically,up and down.
Has anyone noticed that he is really bad at attacking (trying to score) headers from corners, he seems to generate very little power and never heads the ball down just floats towards the keeper. He is great at winning headers and using his body to get into the right position, that's why I think he is so good at defensive heading but he seems to have no power in the neck muscles to really bullet a header.
When you are losing matches sandwiched between Shaw and Lindelof, it's hard to look good. It's amazing how the best players are generally always in the best teams and quality players still need quality around them.
It's amazing how that didn't seem to affect him for Leicester?????
What's your point?
Think I already made it....
Exactly, that’s why the expression top4 defence, top4 quality etc is so useless.
You can call City defence top4 if you want but United’s central defence has been better in my personal opinion.
Laporte has hardly played btw and Walker played mostly fb.
Nope. I don't see the reason why do you replied my post by mentioning City had lost many games.
I never said our defense has been worse though. Just saying that City also has top 4 quality defense to start their season, injury happens and it sucks because it happened to our midfield as well.
Without Bissaka & Maguire, our defense are not top 4 for sure. Ole knows this and that's why he tried to fix the defense.
He scored 5 goals for Leicester. Chris Smalling scored as many in the same time period. He was never exactly a regular scorer anyway.
I think I did. Top 4 quality makes it sound like a science. If City defence is top 4 quality, then based on lost games which is often how we judge defences, ours is top 4 also....
That wasn't my point.
I don't think he scored many headed goals for us. Couldn't remember many headers, so just had a quick look at the stats, and it seemed like he scored 5 goals, but 3 of those were with his feet. I think it's one of those things that has been over-blown a little because of that goal he scored for England. He's not terrible, but hardly prolific either.
I'm still delighted with this signing, personally.
Injury can happen and it sucks, the same happened to our midfield. The point is that every team in top 4 wants to prepare their squad including the defense with top 4 quality. You can‘t say that city prepared their season with non top 4 quality defense. City prepared their defense with top 4 quality and we also did, can’t blame that.
What was it then? That we’ve somehow made him a worse goalscorer? Chris Smalling coped.
£80 million was an absolute steal.
Unfortunately not for us
Unfortunately not for us
They have VAR in Italy actually
Haha really? Welp, there you have it.
I take it from the smiley he hasn't been charged even a single time.
Would be a good point if they didnt have a starting CB out injured for a large period.
Likewise. Very good signing. 26 year old good defender, good on the ball. Its a shame that every mistake is highlighted as if he is the worst defender.
Regressed massively, but maybe moving from a hungry squad like Leicester to a bunch of apathetic mercinaries like Utd would have that impact on the best of us.
He for sure is a better player than what he‘s showing right now
He was never a 80m defender but he has also not been a dud like some suddenly are making him out to be. He has definitely been our most disappointing signing from the three.
Not a dud, but with his lack of mobility you are forced to either be the best high pressing team in the world or sit low and compressed and defending from crosses.
He got sent off a few weeks ago for “handball”. It’s all in his performances thread and is worth looking at for the inevitable reactions. The Smalling haterz do seem to have become significantly less numerous (or at least conspicuous) this season.
Maybe not so strange. The people who disliked Smalling finally got what they wanted when he moved to another club.
It's weird how people make out defenders to be these individuals juggernauts - pace, strength, mobility, intelligence, positioning, ball playing ability & whatever.
Central defenders are never going to sort out a defence by themselves & unless you set them up in a good partnership first and foremost - talking about their individual ability becomes less valid because you have the ability to nullify one central defenders weaknesses with another.
It's why you can see Ramos run around like a rabbit every season & yet watch him win a CL season one after another - usually because his partner is good enough. Same with Boateng, same with someone like Vidic who needed the right type of partner next to him, same with Blind, same with Sule, same with bloody near everyone.
Maguire is good enough for me & Lindelof is not. Rojo is better than Lindelof, Smalling is, Blind was and I wouldn't be surprised if Bailly ends up being better than Lindelof in nullifying Maguires weaknesses.
Central defenders are never going to sort out a defence by themselves & unless you set them up in a good partnership first and foremost - talking about their individual ability becomes less valid because you have the ability to nullify one central defenders weaknesses with another.
It's why you can see Ramos run around like a rabbit every season & yet watch him win a CL season one after another - usually because his partner is good enough. Same with Boateng, same with someone like Vidic who needed the right type of partner next to him, same with Blind, same with Sule, same with bloody near everyone.
Maguire is good enough for me & Lindelof is not. Rojo is better than Lindelof, Smalling is, Blind was and I wouldn't be surprised if Bailly ends up being better than Lindelof in nullifying Maguires weaknesses.
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This is true. I think Tuanzebe would show he is capable of being Maguire’s partner. Bailly would be good next to him too but he’s always injured. We can’t rely on him.
The issue is not that Maguire is immobile, but that he is extremely immobile. All players have weaknesses, but when they are as prominent as Maguire's lack of mobility they impact not just the other CB and how he plays, but our overall defensive setup.
Another example is Juan Mata's lack of physicality, which makes him pretty much useless when we are not in possession and is similar to us defending with one less player.
We played floating corners earlier in the season to give Maguire time to get to the ball. Leicester and Maddison played hard and accurate topspin corners with Maguire running in anticipation of where the ball would most likely end up.
But to me so was Blind & I know Blind is a hard player to talk to on redcafe as some people rate the player and some do not -
But the guy had weaknesses.
He played to overcome his weaknesses, sitting back, reading the game or doing the complete opposite - reading the game early to the point that he would read the game before anyone else and be the first to initiate the defensive action whilst Smalling sits back. Smalling was physical and was much more a reactive defender whilst Blind was a proactive defender - one was physical whilst one was technical and much more mentally gifted on his first 5 months as a CB.
Now even if you don't rate Blind as a CB,
Tell me - how do you think that Blind would have done next to Lindelof? Where Blind was a proactive defender and Lindelof would have to get the position right for the reactions of the attack - the type of attack that I usually see him scared to defend against?
I don't think they would do well.
For me, Maguire plays too much like Blind to play next to someone like Lindelof - he isn't a reactive defender and he is more a proactive defender. He wants to be the first to tackle in the partnership (we see this with Lindelof - he goes across Lindelof, across CDM, across Shaw to initiate a tackle), he wants to bring the ball out to try and find a pass or atleast release pressure from our back line. What we need next to him is a reactive defender - a physical defender that heads the ball, that players struggle to get past if they manage to get through, that's main goal is to recycle possession and pass it back to Maguire or Blind to initiate an attack once again.
Its why I said at the start of the season, 2 ball playing defenders is one of the most overrated tactics in the history of football - puyol & pique, Ferdinand & Vidic, Terry & Carvalho etc - the back line even whilst pressed is never that pressurised for it to require 2 ball playing CB's - because usually when if you play that, you lose an element of defensive stability. The best teams never really had 2 ball playing CB's, they had one.
We need to stop the Lindelof & Maguire thing - get Maguire a proper defensive partner for Maguire to be our ball playing proactive defender.
Blind is miles better at passing compared to Maguire.
While he is far from as strong or tall as Maguire, I would not say that he is close to being as immobile as Maguire.
And Blind was often targeted by the opposition for his lack of physicality, and the team had to mitigate for this. Should also be stated that we played were safe possession-based football under LVG, so the number of times the opposition was able to target Blind was not nearly as often as the number of times our defenders can be "targeted" with our current style of play.
I think that everyone can see that having two immobile defenders is a bad partnership. Don't think there is any reason to differentiate between Lindelof and Maguire in regards to performances this season... Could easily say that putting a more physical and mobile defender together with Lindelof would fix some of the issues...
I agree with what some Leicester fan was saying a couple of pages ago. He'll be good in a back 3 or in a system where we sit back. We have already seen this in many matches this season.
But he's not suited to playing in a team that plays high up the pitch. He's big and definitely not agile. Any good forward would have a pretty good chance to turn him and go for goal. The fact that he's coupled with Lindelof makes it worse. Not saying anything about Lindelof, but the two won't work together well, especially if we need to play high up the pitch.
What has let me down the most however, is his supposed ball playing skills. I admit I didn't watch much of him before he joined us, but so far he's been as effective as Smalling with the ball. More confident and comfortable with it maybe, but the end result is more or less the same.
But he's not suited to playing in a team that plays high up the pitch. He's big and definitely not agile. Any good forward would have a pretty good chance to turn him and go for goal. The fact that he's coupled with Lindelof makes it worse. Not saying anything about Lindelof, but the two won't work together well, especially if we need to play high up the pitch.
What has let me down the most however, is his supposed ball playing skills. I admit I didn't watch much of him before he joined us, but so far he's been as effective as Smalling with the ball. More confident and comfortable with it maybe, but the end result is more or less the same.
No, nope, nah, Steve Carrel nooooooooooooo and Darth Vader noooooooooo.
Despite Maguire's bad performances and his price tag, he is head and shoulders the better defender. No physical and mobile defender is going to appreciate a player like Lindelof, a passive sweeper than plays like a 36 year old Laurent Blanc.
He would be the weak link in every pairing possible.
The coaching is bad/non existant and no doubt both would improve in a better set up but Lindelof has shown nothing to warrant giving any more benefit of the doubt. He is a 6/10 at best. No more, no less.
I still remember back in early season many here suggest Maguire and Lindelof partnership could be potentially one of the best in the league, its getting really funny now. Not saying both are a joke, but both do have major flaws in their game which is impossible for them to become anywhere near one of the best.
And my season average rating for Maguire at 6.5 is actually higher than the Cafe average at 5.9. I actually overrated him, even though I do not rate him.
And my season average rating for Maguire at 6.5 is actually higher than the Cafe average at 5.9. I actually overrated him, even though I do not rate him.
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He is a much better central defender for a team sitting low and compressed, and trying to force crosses. Which is how we seem to want to defend. Personally i do not see how this type of defending is going to get us anywhere above a 6th place.
There was a time when we used to make the smart signings especially in defence and the opposition bought overpriced duds
Now its the opposite.
I cant think of any Liverpool signing that has backfired in recent times
Just look at how we were laughing when they paid big money for VVD. And whose laughing now?
We have paid around 50 million more than a players worth by signing Maguire and are the laughing stock now.
Whats even more worse is that hes the team captain. Whats Oles obsession with the likes of Maguire and Lingard I will never know.
Now its the opposite.
I cant think of any Liverpool signing that has backfired in recent times
Just look at how we were laughing when they paid big money for VVD. And whose laughing now?
We have paid around 50 million more than a players worth by signing Maguire and are the laughing stock now.
Whats even more worse is that hes the team captain. Whats Oles obsession with the likes of Maguire and Lingard I will never know.
Do you mean Maguire or Lindelof? If the former, his natural tendency is actually to attack the ball and player. He might be a bit too trigger happy i.e he's drawn to the ball but I'd think he could adapt to a higher pressing team because that is his game style. It's why we are lamenting Lindelof's passiveness because you're meant to defend and attack the ball/player together. Maguire goes for it and then Lindelof is a 10 yards behind and doesn't engage in anything as the sweeper. He simply lets the opposition collect the ball and regroup...in our own half.
Wolves 0:0 Man Utd
I thought he did well. Seemed to be playing through the pain barrier ....was worried Phil Jones was gonna come on
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