He is not 80mil defender, that is for sure. He is good defender, doing ok job so far but he didn't have Van Dijk or Vidic impact on our defence.
5
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Well mate, we're parking the bus a lot more this season. So there's that.
I dunno, mate. I said it further back on the page but I think we were just as defensive as last season, and last year we had the added bonus of having Herrara - our best CM defensively - screening the defence, too.
Shouldn't of even got awb imo, better options were out there especially on the ball that would have cost less.
£80m shouldn't be paid for a centre-half with glaring weaknesses, just like £50m shouldn't be paid for a full-back that can't play football, but here we are.... His dallying on the ball frustrates me too.
To be fair, it's been a mess since Sir Alex! It's all we know now
Regarding de Gea, I've lost my confidence in him, too. I'm not saying for definite he's past it, but I personally don't feel as confident with him between the sticks as I did a year ago, and I was always someone who rated him highly - even in his debut season where he was getting stick left, right and centre.
That situation in last minutes when Young made a foul on 16m was hilarious. Maguire was on attacker and when they both started to change direction Harry was 5m,6m from him. Again same thing. When he needs to change direction, he is fecked.
He is ideal player for counter style when you sit deep or in 352 but how on earth Ole thought that he can play his supposed attacking football with high defence with Maguire?
He is ideal player for counter style when you sit deep or in 352 but how on earth Ole thought that he can play his supposed attacking football with high defence with Maguire?
Not that I disagree but the need for a RB was bigger than anything else.
He is only 21 and I am willing to give him the benefit of age and time ( btw I am a huge fan of Dalot)
This. If you pay fortune for a player, he must be flawless. Sounds stupid, sounds spoiled but it is my opinion also. It is same thing when we were buying left winger to play on the right or attacking midfielder to play box to box.
We gotta agree to disagree then buddy.
That's fair enough
Weird how many posters also shot us down and called us names saying he would be a great buy too
Agree with this.
If Attacking & possession are the eventual goal then AWB wasn't the correct profile of player.
There were a number of us question Maguire at that price too; we honestly had a horrendous summer.
Gets particularly sickening when you consider that if we hadn't spent £80m on him we could have signed another midfielder in the £30m -£40m range. The team is light in midfield and attack but we spent world record fees for a couple of flawed defenders.
Considering how defensive we're set up we shouldn't concede as much as we do. Wasn't the point of strengthening our defence to release more players in attack? More often than not we have one, or two players at most in the box when a cross comes in, no wonder we aren't scoring.
It is not that. He is not crap. He is good defender, he will be good for us and i don't think that anybody( even Liverpool fans) can deny that. But problem is that we spent 80 fecking millions for defender who is only slight upgrade on Smalling.
People say it is not my money, it is not his fault that he is paid 80 mil etc....but it is important thing. For that inflated 80 mil we could have bought 2 players maybe. To be clear, i am for spending big on player but when you spend big then you buy perfect player, not just one who is "better than we already have".
If I'm not mistaken most of these posters used Van Dijk as an example and imagined a world where he was the first addition to Liverpool's success when in reality he was one of the last with Allison and Fabinho all defensive players. In general I'm against the idea of spending the biggest part of the budget on defensive players when you basically don't have a midfield or an attack, it's a waste of money because in football you can't win without scoring and the first line of defense is the midfield not the backline. When you have a midfield and a competent attack, you can spend big on a goalkeeper or a CB but not when the rest of the team isn't fixed.
And if you look around all the best teams have at least a great midfield and a great creative player. After that you can always question their defenders, goalkeepers or strikers but the midfield as a unit is always the center of everything whether we are talking about an attacking or defensive team.
I don't think that was the case. When comparing the two, it wasn't that we were expecting Maguire to transform the defence like Van Dijk did as we all knew it needed a complete overhaul. Not one man could transform it alone. It was in the sense that, like Van Dijk, it was obvious he was ready for the step up and, in playing for a huge team, would then go from strength to strength.
That's more down to the fact that we actually have competent fullback this year in AWB, unlike last year where we spent entire year playing with makeshift fullbacks who didn't have clue defensively. I said last year that buying half decent right back who knows basics of defending will make us conceede at least 5 PL goals per season alone. Our midfield looks far more defensive this year too, and gives far more protection.
What's nonsense is saying he's been carrying our entire defence which clearly isn't true. It's true if you look it mostly from defensive headers point of view but that's about it. Didn't we also had CB who could head the ball last year too? I actually agree with @A-man saying that Maguire is one of our best players this year alongisde Rashford and McTominay probably, but he is nowhere near 80m player, let alone 80m improvement that we could invest elsewhere. For example AWB is far better investment, so is Dan James.
What I said is what many posters exactly said, that you build from the back and that we should look at Liverpool.
Problem is as you said we needed a right back but 40 million spent and we are once again having to be patient in the right back postion for the next few years in hope he can develop his game, we needed a right back that was the finished article and can have an attacking output.
the main problem with seeing young in that position last season was his lack of usefulness on the ball rather than his defensive displays which weren't amazing but were solid 9 times out of 10.
I just think had ole kept lukaku and showed him some love rather than favouring rashford as his number 9 over him and signed trippier to whip in crosses from the right wing and his ability from set pieces, we would have had more going for us going forward.
For me Ole's decision making with player personnel choices has made the squad look weaker rather than stronger.
As a general observation, I agree 100%.
I'm not convinced in this case that the player has actually "started to decline". He's been OK, just like with Leicester and England, and he's still got the same weaknesses. The reason he's not been the massive upgrade lots of people were expecting is because the centre backs he's replaced were actually not terrible.
It would also help if we bought players that suited the style of play aspired to by the current manager, rather than that of his predecessor.
Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. In the games AWB missed due to injury we still didn't give up many chances because Maguire was there. As for our midfield, it gets walked through time and time again.
No, you can disagree with me all you want, but it's not nonsense. Even in the games AWB was out (along with Shaw) we still didn't give up many chances because Maguire was still in the team.
What is nonsense is you claiming I rate players because of their nationality.
You saying "If I'm not mistaken..." lead me to think you weren't sure. If you know for a fact that some said that then fair enough. That wasn't my way of thinking in regards to this transfer, though.
An underrated point. Replacing Smalling with Maguire isn’t a radical upgrade; if it were Jones or Rojo then yes it would be but when you consider we don’t build from the back Maguire’s major strength over Smalling is void.
‘Building from the back’ is an archaic platitude & the fact OgS thinks this is the way forward shows how out of touch he is.
Our midfield doesn't get walk through as much as it did last year, not because they are better but because we play more defensive, but even when it does it creates lot of problems because Maguire looks pretty shit in one on one situations which we saw in couple of last games, and Lindelof isn't any better in those either.
You ignore the fact that we play far more defensive than last year, we score 1.18 goals per game this season so far, and last season it was 1.71 goal scored per game last year. (3.13 goals per game in total in our games last year in comparision to 2.18 goals per game this year). We obviosuly play far more conservative football this season, which is quite ridiculous to be fair because people claimed Maguire will also help our build up which obviously isn't haplening so far.
It's just something I noticed in other threads even before I started our discussion here. It could be bullshit, but for me it was pretty simple to realise you are English.
Why then did we have either the joint best or second best defensive record in the league for each of the three seasons running from 15/16 to 17/18?To be fair, it's been a mess since Sir Alex! It's all we know now
Regarding de Gea, I've lost my confidence in him, too. I'm not saying for definite he's past it, but I personally don't feel as confident with him between the sticks as I did a year ago, and I was always someone who rated him highly - even in his debut season where he was getting stick left, right and centre.
18/19 was poor all right; not helped by De Gea's loss of form and Valencia being massively on the slide. Nevertheless, the notion that the defence had long been crap has no basis in fact whatever.
I've said it a few times but I think we were just as defensive as last season. The difference between this year and last year is we had more bodies in attack so, as a result, scored more. Not replacing Lukaku and Alexis, however bad they were for us, is costing us big time. Bar Ole's first 3 games where we pressed - under both him and Mourinho - we sat back just as much as we do now. Herrera was playing RB at times to support Young in most games.
Well, I've said I'm English on here and speak about the English team a lot when it's international break so it's not that hard to figure out.
However, just because I'm English doesn't mean I rate players because they share my nationality. If I did, I'd rate Rashford higher than Martial, which I don't, I'd want Eddie Howe here, which I don't, I'd rate Garner as a top prospect, which I don't, etc.
I think you've read too much into my opinons of the likes of Maguire, Maddison and Grealish. There are far more English players I don't rate than do.
It was more about us being a mess as a club in general than specifically the defence since Fergie.
I completely agree that the defence in 15/16 was good. Smalling and Blind were a great combo, and de Gea was still great. I can't really recall our defence from 17/18, tbh.
How much would you say this guy has improved us at the back?
He'a a good defender, but are we really THAT much better in defence with him in it? I do like Maguire, but i've seen some things from him these past few weeks that has disappointed me quite a bit.
He'a a good defender, but are we really THAT much better in defence with him in it? I do like Maguire, but i've seen some things from him these past few weeks that has disappointed me quite a bit.
Seemed to struggled in the difficult conditions. Careless late on when we were trying to equalize, giving away fouls and being offside.
I think he’s brought composure into the backline and all over the pitch - the players regularly look for him and that wouldn’t be the case with a Smalling Lindelof pairing. He’s nowhere near worth the money paid and I preferred Koulibaly myself. But he’s definitely an upgrade and he’s a good character too, by all accounts. He would be massively helped by having a quick partner (preferably not poor in the air either). Maybe Smalling would have looked good next to him, but hopefully Tuanzebe will get the nod when he’s fit.
Fair enough
As I remember 17/18: Smalling was its mainstay and was generally excellent. Jones OK. Bailly injured a lot and massively disappointing given the promise of his first season. Lindelof very shaky in the league but looked classy in Europe. Rojo hardly featured. Shaw and Blind out of favour with Jose; people on here were outraged at Shaw's treatment. Valencia declined over the course of the year. Young OK.
Not that he has been shit but the opportunity cost was not worth it. I always maintained during the summer that midfield was our biggest issue. To think we could have gotten Partey and an AM for what we spent on him sickens me.
Yeah i like the guy. But sometimes i don't see that composure, and surprisingly he loses a few balls in the air. I think the price has something to do with it, which isn't fair on him, but it is what it is. I guess i expected a bit more from him. He hasn't been terrible, by any means. The way we're playing as a team probably doesn't help.
You should read the first few pages then . Not only were people saying he was better than van dijk he was also better than Rio and Vidic rolled into one and would be our captain for years to vome
As you can tell by my posts here, I rate Maguire higher than most, but even I agree that's OTT
His game seems to have changed from last year, seems a lot less reluctant to bring the ball out of defence and had far too many when he was in possession too, needs to move the ball much quicker. Was at fault for the goal in mid-week too, needs to raise his game massively.
He had a patch like this the season before we bought him, that got him dropped for a few games at Leicester. At 80m he was being priced out of a move, but we decided to go anyway. That is fine, because he is a clear improvement on Jones, Lindelof, Bailly and Rojo. His only issue was speed related, and considering who he played alongside at Leicester I figured he'd get even better next to a better partner. However, we then sold Smalling and kept our weakest, slowest defenders and that perspective changed. With no DLP playing to slot in, and no defender to cover, he doesn't go on those runs anymore. It is no wonder he struggles to make his mark.
However, I do think he'll be a good servant to the club, he is still fairly young for a defender. If we correct our wrongs and bring Smalling back, he'll get a lot more breathing room to express himself on the ball.
However, I do think he'll be a good servant to the club, he is still fairly young for a defender. If we correct our wrongs and bring Smalling back, he'll get a lot more breathing room to express himself on the ball.
Anyone think he gets caught offside and gives away way too many fouls when we are taking free kicks or corners. I haven’t checked the stats but I feel like every game he gets called up for being off side or fouling someone more than once.
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He is the only threat so they'll pressure him into fighting too hard to reach the ball, uses his arms leads to freekick. If he wasn't doubled up on, he'd probably score a few. But yeah, he has been very disappointing involving himself at set-pieces.
He’s made a lot of mistakes so far that have cost us I could think of a least 5 times I seen him and thought wasn’t good enough not for £80m feck me I’d of wanted Koulibaly for that much.
Don’t hate the lad really hope he does well but he’s not a top class defender.
Don’t hate the lad really hope he does well but he’s not a top class defender.
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