Well they've gone backwards in squad quality so it will be a hell of a reshaping job. If he wants to stay there and win feck all, well that's his choice. It's now or never if he wants to leave.
Harry Kane | Bayern Munich player
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Well they've gone backwards in squad quality so it will be a hell of a reshaping job. If he wants to stay there and win feck all, well that's his choice. It's now or never if he wants to leave.
I guess the difference is with Conte coming in he must have been genuinely convinced they could win the league after his work at Chelsea. But now he has to realize that this is literally the last chance he has to win anything. If he wants to win trophies he must leave this summer. If he thinks that they will bring in a new manager and that'll give him a shot then he's simply a fool who's wasted his career in terms of his talent. It was no secret he downed tools last year to force through a move to City so i doubt he's committed as everyone thinks nowadays, and rightly so.
It’s fairly obvious to me that he’s leaving if he can but he’s contracted to the club for another year. He can’t come out and say “who cares what happens, I’m off this summer anyway”.
The discussion he will privately have with them is likely to be very different. I would imagine it’s likely to be about whether they are selling him this summer or losing him for free next summer. I doubt he will prevent Spurs selling him and getting some money this summer, provided it’s to an English team.
I am happy to repeat: Kane is very good footballer, a great striker and in terms of his playmaking traits he'd probably be a good fit. But the prices quoted are insane. We have a few holes to plug so any transfer plan that involves spending close to 100 million on a single player/striker must be insanely good as we need a few other good players as well. I don't think that United has it in them to create nor to execute such a plan.
It is bonkers, if only a striker was needed, the final piece of the puzzle and we were close 2nd two times in a row, both times due to a few goals missing, then sign me up. But we aren't. Shell out 100 million on him this summer and we'll be at the exact same spot in 2 years time. Lets just skip the middle part. Kane will lose all of his re-sale value shortly - this is another thing that speaks against him. If we want to pay big, at least bring somebody in who we might get 80% back when it doesn't work out.
edit. And re. Casemiro. We haven't even finished the 1st season. I like you being enthusiastic but to call a transfer a success or not shouldn't happen after one year. Except in this one year the new player brings in a title like RVP did or Haaland is... If Casemiro can play another 1 or 2 years on the level he played this season, I am happy to call him a success. But we have seen stuff happening... Remember Matic...
All correct, but lets not derail this thread to make a point. We were talking about no player being a guaranteed success. And Uniteds recent transfer history is the absolute picture boy of that.
I understand the notion, "United needs a striker. - Go get the best striker we know based on MOTD in the telly!". But if its a yes on Kane, it will be a no to a few other players as far as we know. Its not worth it.
And when we talk alternatives, Toney might be worth a shot. Hojlund, Sesko and so on. Heck if short term is ok, go for Mitrovic. Granted, of course we should avoid to overpay for those as well.
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Those alternatives just show why Kane is an essential purchase though. Toney will be £60/£70m and is only a little bit younger. I’m not convinced he’s good enough to lead the line for United and we can’t use him until January even if we did persuade Brentford to let him go. He just isn’t an option.
Hojlund is a 20 year old with 8 league goals this season in a much weaker league. He’s currently potential and not a player we can bring in as a starter. Despite that, he’s also being quoted at around £60m. Sesko is similar but even more risky as he’s only so far played in the Austrian league.
Kane, for a world class striker, is likely to be a bargain this summer. It’s our weakest position and the one we should be most focussed on improving. We cannot afford to get this wrong by taking a cheap option and hoping for the best.
Except we can
It depends on the price. If Brentford wants crazy money, then I wouldn't call him an option as well but he is banned as you said so who knows what will happen. He also isn't just a little bit younger, he is 27 approaching his prime. Kane will be 30 before the new season starts.
Well I agree, I also wouldn't like to see United get fleeced for younger players. But those younger players will only get more expensive when they turn good. And even if not, you will always get the most of your money back. That won't be the case with Kane. Look, even if he has a good season, hitting another 25 goals and we win something next season - what is next? Are we hoping that he holds this level?
At some point United has to start to act smartly recruitment-wise. Always going for the supposedly sure bet isn't going to cut. Especially as - as depicted in my earlier post - United is fecking shit at assessing risks and chances apparently. What kind of price do you think Levy would want? Can't imagine anything close to a "bargain" to be honest.
I think we are in an exceptional position here. We literally don’t have an outright CF currently who can stay fit. As such, we have to spend money to buy an established one now. The way we are ran is partly to blame for that but we have also been fairly unlucky that over the last 12-15 months, Ronaldo threw such a hissy fit that he had to go, Greenwood obviously was ruled out and was our long term plan for that position and Martial hasn’t been able to develop into the player we might have expected at 27.
Moving forwards, we should then be looking to operate in a sensible way. That means looking to identify up and coming talent who can provide cover and take over in due course.
Of course, there are other positions we also ideally would strengthen this summer but none are as important as CF.
As for Toney, we can’t have it both ways. He’ll be nearly 28 by the time we can use him. Kane will be just 30 if we sign him this summer so, in real terms, that’s only 2 seasons difference. One can’t be “just approaching his peak” and the other too old to sign.
Good post I was going to say exactly the same thing. I’m against this transfer the same way I was against Cavani, Sanchez, Casemiro, Matic, Ronadlo, Zlatan. I guess you can still get a really good season or two out of players 29-30 whatever but it’s just as likely to fail hard medium term. I’d rather we got two players like Sesko or Ferguson or greenwood if he comes back and then just let them battle it out for the next few years while the rest of the team settles/develops and is rejuvenated with top young and hungry players.
As has been said already, if a centre forward was the final piece of the jigsaw to make us challenge for the title, then maybe Kane could get us there in 1 or 2 seasons, similar to RVP.
But Kane isnt scoring more than a handful of goals at Utd, if he's relying on service from Sancho & Anthony. I'd rather we passed on Kane and went for someone younger like Ferguson, as we still need to develop as a team in other areas and this will take time, which is something Kane doesn't have.
But Kane isnt scoring more than a handful of goals at Utd, if he's relying on service from Sancho & Anthony. I'd rather we passed on Kane and went for someone younger like Ferguson, as we still need to develop as a team in other areas and this will take time, which is something Kane doesn't have.
I wouldn't exactly call overpaying for a striker that's banned for 4 months smart business. Nor is paying 50m quid for a guy from the Austrian league. Also when you compare the sure bets and the risks we took on players with massive potential, guys like Varane and Casemiro are infinitely more important to this team than Martial, Sancho, Antony have shown to be, who we gambled big on because of age and future.
If we want talented young players get them straight from the source or even our own academy, not from an Atalanta, Ajax, Monaco, Dortmund etc.
Hojlund, Sesko, Toney are still going to cost us a fortune anyways. I'm not saying we should pay the 100m Spurs want, but those other options look worse to me.
Kane has just scored 30 goals for a Spurs team with no creativity whatsoever. We have the most productive number 10 in terms of chance creation in the league and Eriksen, with whom he had a great relationship in the past.
You also seem to be more or less writing off the next three seasons. Don’t we want to compete before Casemiro, Varane, Eriksen and Bruno are also too old and need replacing?
How would that even work? If a club buys a player from another how would they do it without disclosing?At least we disclose all of ours
There are various additional fees on top of the transfer fee. For example with Haaland, he had a release fee so it seems they got him on the cheap however there is also the hefty agent fee they paid. It will all come out in these 115 charges.
How exactly would you press high when your first trigger won't even participate , we already saw with Ronaldo how much it impacted our press and team dynamics .
We need to commit to becoming a modern dynamic team just not half hearted attempts and if it means staying away from somebody like Kane then so be it .
Steer clear of Kane in summer and even next season for free find somebody who is much suited for this approach even if they are less talented in summer .
How do you know how much they paid the agent?
Fair point. But Kane is ETH number one target so maybe he has a plan for him
The figure has been banded around but The Athlethic reported it as £34m.
https://theathletic.com/3308080/202...34m-agent-fees-haaland-deal-thing-past/?amp=1
With City having the highest agent fee spend
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...news/man-city-agent-fees-haaland-26608389.amp
I keep coming back to the problem of short term gain for long term pain. Whether Kane performs at his best for another 4 years, like Benzema, only the future knows, but we would basically need all of our other players nearing 30 years of age to also stay at their peak. Maybe Kane is lethal for 2 years and then falls off a cliff, but what about Bruno (29 in Sept.), Varane (30), Eriksen (31), Casemiro (31), Sabitzer (29), and Fred (30)?
I'd think well before the end of Kane's contract we would need to replace all six of those above. Maybe it's naive/romantic to think players can be in the first team for 10 years now, but when we buy a player in their late 20s, they are only going to be around for a short(er) while. I feel like we will be playing catch up forever with this profile of player.
I'd much rather we went for Osimhen, even if he turns out to not be able to play at this level, it's the right type of signing. Young players especially from other leagues don't always work out, just ask Sancho. Buying Kane seems like someone Liverpool would do. He'd augment their attack mightily for a couple seasons, they would have failed to fix the other gaping holes in their side, and after they effectively fell away to City, they'd be right back where they were, except instead of strengthening and slowly rebuilding they would have spent a shedload of cash and still be shit.
Didn't Fergie have players over 30 given only 1 year contracts?
I'd think well before the end of Kane's contract we would need to replace all six of those above. Maybe it's naive/romantic to think players can be in the first team for 10 years now, but when we buy a player in their late 20s, they are only going to be around for a short(er) while. I feel like we will be playing catch up forever with this profile of player.
I'd much rather we went for Osimhen, even if he turns out to not be able to play at this level, it's the right type of signing. Young players especially from other leagues don't always work out, just ask Sancho. Buying Kane seems like someone Liverpool would do. He'd augment their attack mightily for a couple seasons, they would have failed to fix the other gaping holes in their side, and after they effectively fell away to City, they'd be right back where they were, except instead of strengthening and slowly rebuilding they would have spent a shedload of cash and still be shit.
Didn't Fergie have players over 30 given only 1 year contracts?
I hope not , but if we get Kane and extend De Gea then I would have serious doubts about direction ETH wants to take United .
We do want to compete but we aren't going to. We would need to cram a decade's worth of good signings (based on our usual success ratio with recruitment) into the next couple of summers if we want to compete any time soon. That's the reality.
I don't disagree but what does Sabitzer have to do with anything? He's on loan and I hope to god we aren't stupid enough to actually buy him.
I think we will buy him, is why I added him to the list.
but it's not just about next season. it's about the seasons going forward. We are a few years away from challenging for the title even with Harry Kane, by that point, Kane is going to be passed his prime and we would need to spend another 100 million to buy another striker.
Harry Kane at his age is the kind of signing you make if you are 1 piece away from competing again. Thats not us!
I don't think you can really spend 120-130 million on a player if you're not confident he can play at the EPL level. And I don't like the idea of putting all our eggs in one basket as far as strikers go.
The thing about Kane is that we all already know he's going to produce, and his production won't fall off as much as it does for strikers who rely on speed. I'd much rather we spend the 80 million on Kane and then sign a young striker or two in the hopes that they'll eventually take over once Kane ages out.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kane still has 75 EPL goals in him, and given that, I'd love it if he scored them for us over the next 3-4 seasons. With a player like him, some of our losses end up being draws and some of our draws end up being wins.
That’s an incredibly negative approach. We are definitely not that far off competing. Even if we cant quite close the gap to City over a full league season with one big signing, what if City crash and burn early in the CL next season? There is no other side in Europe currently that far ahead of us, if we add one of the world’s best CFs leading the line.
As another poster has said, Kane is 2nd top PL scorer, has scored 12 more PL goals than Rashford, and has scored in more PL games than Haaland…in THAT Spurs team!!!
I get he’s not the FINAL piece in the ETH puzzle, but where could we be with an additional 25-30 goals, plus the assists he could help with, playing in Rashford, Antony, Garnacho et al?
We missed 84% of the big chances made this season, the problem has not been making chances for a striker, it’s been putting them away consistently. To suggest Kane would only get a handful of goals for us is ludicrous.
I agree, I think it's a bad policy, even with Qatari gift cards. Imagine what Brighton could do with our resources, for example. We have the resources, even without the Qataris, so why can't we put together a beautiful machine like the way Brighton plays (when they are on song)?
I just see the Kane experiment going exactly like Ronaldo 2.0, where he comes in, scores some beauties, production elsewhere falls off, and then second season we start seeing him as a hindrance while being stuck with insane wages because he can't/won't press and demands every ball to feet. I would have loved him 2 or 3 years ago. The next world class striker is out there, just get those scouts on their horses and find him.
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The trouble is half the forwards we are linked to who are severely below that level of quality are still being quoted at £60m too. Then the £40m you save might buy us another player but even then of what level, position and quality? For example is Rabiot on a free and Kane for £100m any worse than the combination of £100ms worth of two players you could pick out?
I’m also not sure how much Bruno, Varane, Casemiro will want to have another year of not seriously challenging for a title and our lack of goals is something that is seriously concerning. It’s not due to lack of chances but lack of finishers in my view.
Now I’d be happy enough with most of the players were linked with because they are good and importantly fit options that could develop or could offer excellent finishing but Kane for me represents the best striker for the next 3 seasons without question. I don’t see a scenario where we sign him and he doesn’t win us more games with the goals he brings and improve us with his overall CF play.
I’m genuinely curious who you would bring in instead and for what fee you’d imagine they could be attained for?
Re: Casemiro
I look at the prospect of our current season with and without Casemiro and I’m comfortable in saying he’s been a huge success this season. We absolutely needed him to be here this season and unquestionably are worse off without him. Longevity while desirable wasn’t the major issue before he arrived. He’s bought us time to develop or find a longer term successor.
No it’s a realistic approach of where we are.
This club is not a bottomless pit of money and spending probably around 100 million on a striker who is coming to the end of his prime is reckless spending
Kane won’t get us to City, but we‘re looking like we’ll just scrape into Top 4 with Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea all having relative shockers.
Kane would have put us above Arsenal this season, and in the next 2-3yrs could help solidify CL qualification to be able to bring in the next crop of WC stars without them worrying about if we’re gonna get Top 4 consistently.
Kane would have put us above Arsenal this season, and in the next 2-3yrs could help solidify CL qualification to be able to bring in the next crop of WC stars without them worrying about if we’re gonna get Top 4 consistently.
He'd definitely score plenty of goals next season.
But on his own he'd add nowhere near 25-30 goals to the actual team, because some of those goals will involve cannibalising chances others would get anyway. Most obviously in the form of penalties, corners and free kicks, but also some from open play. Adding something like 15 goals to the team would probably be a more realistic estimate and even then that's a massive impact to expect from any one player.
But even if we imagine we did add those 25-30 goals to the team, that would still leave us as just the third highest scoring side in the league and third best defence in the league. So the answer to "where would we be?" is likely "top four, just more comfortably so".
An interesting point about the possibility of Kane cannibalizing goals that others would score, but I'm not sure of that. Under the present no circumstances let's take a look at our players who are expected to score goals.
Rashford. With respect to Rashy, your point is well taken. He might drop off 5-6 from the current 22 goals he has in all competitions this season.
Martial. Your point is not well taken.
Sancho. Nope.
Antony. Nope.
Wout. Nope.
Garnacho. It seems more likely than not that Garnacho's goal production will increase next season even with Kane.
There's not much in our attack to worry about being cannibalized.
As for speculation as to the goal tally Harry would add, I've been thinking more like 20-25 rather than 25-30. Harry is currently on 29 goals in all comps and there's no reason to believe that he'll collapse next season into a 15 goal scorer as you suggest. But what I do believe is this, that because Harry has excellent holdup play and can find a key pass in the final third that not only will he NOT cannibalize goals from Rashford, Sancho, Antony and Garnacho -- he will substantially improve their production.
Just going off the eyeball test only, but it seems pretty obvious to me that after we let go of Cavani and Ronaldo we've been playing without a striker for almost the entire season. Unless you have medical knowledge of Kane's fitness that he's about to collapse as a footballer, he would be the perfect fit for us.
That said, I have my doubts that Harry would want to join United. But if he is interested, and if we can get him for no more than the 80m that he's reasonably worth right now, we'd be daft to pass up on him...unless there really is something to the Mbappe rumors, which I doubt even more.
Yes, all those goals we are scoring from penalties (2) and corners (1 I think but someone may correct me) will be taken away by having a CF who consistently wins penalties and scores poacher type goals from set pieces.
Adding 15 league goals per season (and it’s probably more for us taking into account Kane’s creativity as well should increase the output from Rashford and Bruno particularly rather than reduce it) just by the addition of one player is absolutely massive.
because he would have the biggest immediate impact. We need him and a potential world class understudy. If kane brings you 30 goals and a younger striker gets you 15, you’re suddenly looking different.
the money will only be spent if it is there and it can be. Simple as that.
Using the logic here we should only sign 29 year old players, you are right it's nonsense
Looking at it from Kane's POV.
- There will most likely not be any CL for the next 3 years at Spurs. United, Newcastle, Liverpool, Arsenal, City looks to be the future top 4 competitors. On the plus-side then that makes you more fresh to break the premier league goal scoring record.
- Will Spurs give him a big contract again to extend? He's on 200k a week now, he could probably get 250-300k another place like United or Newcastle. His offers might be better elsewhere, but Spurs should be desperate as they might drop off a cliff without him (if they get 80-120 from shipping him off, then that wont be enough to rebuild a whole team).
- Will he reach most scoring striker at Spurs? He's missing 49 goals and he turns 30 in july. That's 2 seasons at a stable side where he's the star man like at Spurs if he does it quickly like this year. He'll reach it no matter what imo. Even if he takes 3 years at United with moderate succes / 13 goals a year, he'll still reach Shearers' record at some point before hanging up his boots.
- Will he be a success at another club? Almost likely in any way yes. If he chooses Newcastle, plenty of crosses and will be the star. If he chooses United, plenty of games and plenty of talent around him.
- Possibility of winning actual trophies elsewhere? Yes. Plenty. Stay at Spurs and you compete for Europa League and domestic cups.
Reason says he should move, but he might be too much of a conservative guy who's afraid of taking the risk of moving. He'd be absolutely adored wherever he moves, so I wouldn't understand why he'd want to stay.
- There will most likely not be any CL for the next 3 years at Spurs. United, Newcastle, Liverpool, Arsenal, City looks to be the future top 4 competitors. On the plus-side then that makes you more fresh to break the premier league goal scoring record.
- Will Spurs give him a big contract again to extend? He's on 200k a week now, he could probably get 250-300k another place like United or Newcastle. His offers might be better elsewhere, but Spurs should be desperate as they might drop off a cliff without him (if they get 80-120 from shipping him off, then that wont be enough to rebuild a whole team).
- Will he reach most scoring striker at Spurs? He's missing 49 goals and he turns 30 in july. That's 2 seasons at a stable side where he's the star man like at Spurs if he does it quickly like this year. He'll reach it no matter what imo. Even if he takes 3 years at United with moderate succes / 13 goals a year, he'll still reach Shearers' record at some point before hanging up his boots.
- Will he be a success at another club? Almost likely in any way yes. If he chooses Newcastle, plenty of crosses and will be the star. If he chooses United, plenty of games and plenty of talent around him.
- Possibility of winning actual trophies elsewhere? Yes. Plenty. Stay at Spurs and you compete for Europa League and domestic cups.
Reason says he should move, but he might be too much of a conservative guy who's afraid of taking the risk of moving. He'd be absolutely adored wherever he moves, so I wouldn't understand why he'd want to stay.
I don't think it's just a question of how many goals it's when he scores them as well, he's scored in 75% of PL games this season, if he was able to do that with us it would be transformative in the number of games we win rather than draw or even lose
The problem I have with a younger striker is that by the time whoever it is capable of scoring like Kane obviously can we'll be replacing our other best players because of age, to take advantage of Casemiro, Bruno, Varane we need a top striker now