I see. You've been there have you. Was it full of shit? Or humble pie?What about on Planet Hargreaves?
Hargreaves vs. Carrick, Feadingseagulls vs. Noodle, Chief (Bayern Fan!) vs. Logic
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Criticising someone for not being able to play in a 4-4-2 when he has played in that formation and done better than what Scholes-Carrick did in those games last season clearly shows your hatred.
If you actually play a proper attacking midfielder next to him, it works. Anderson-Hargreaves dominated or atleast were as good as the Liverpool and Arsenal midfield.
If you put a deep lying play maker
How is a 1-0 win away to Liverpool "better" than a 1-0 win away to Liverpool? If you're on about the pattern of the game, you're still talking rubbish. We didn't even compete in midfield for large parts of the game this season, as there wasn't any point. Last season we had to work that much harder, and with ten men, yet we still won.
Not much difference between the games at the Emirates either. We took the lead, then bottled it. If anything we were better in midfield last season, up until we scored and sat back. Didn't Carrick also win MOTM for that game? Most people certainly seemed to think he was our best player.
Carrick and Hargreaves can't play together, that much is obvious. Neither can Hargreaves and Fletcher, or Hargreaves and Scholes, unless it's against someone crap. He's a very limited player, who doesn't suit the way we play. I'm still not even sure what he does. He's either a defensive player who makes us more likely to concede goals, or a midfielder who stops our midfield from working.
I don't hate him. We've had terrible players in the past and I haven't hated them. I think having him at United causes more problems than it solves, due mostly to him not being a good enough player. I'd agree with Plech's assessment of him being average, but in a team of players who are among the very best in the world at what they do, average is going to stick out like a sore thumb.
About your comparison with European games away from home...Hargreaves has started only once in Europe for us, and it happened to be our worst performance in the CL this season, and the only one we were ever in danger of losing. Feck all evidence so far to suggest Hargreaves will change anything. Our away form, and performances in Europe have been a bit off ever since Fergie started thinking too much. Thinking too much is what causes you to do something silly, like paying 20 million pounds for Owen Hargreaves.
I see. You've been there have you. Was it full of shit? Or humble pie?
Full of lots of people in perms running around in circles chasing each other aimlessly. Some were wearing Bayern shirts. You'd have loved it.
Stats a few years ago said Makelele and McCann where the best passers in the league alongside Scholes. While lasts season Scholes tackling stats were amazing? So do you want to tell me Makelele and McCann pass the ball as well as Scholes is amongst the best tacklers in the league?
What's your problem with Scholes? Like Hargreaves he's been in and out of the team this season, like Hargreaves he's struggled with form and fitness, like Hargreaves he's been overshadowed by Anderson and Carrick. Yet you hate one and love the other. Perhaps because one used to play for Bayern and the other didn't?
Nah! I can't love places that don't exist. You insane fellowFull of lots of people in perms running around in circles chasing each other aimlessly. Some were wearing Bayern shirts. You'd have loved it.
Dishonesty my arse. What he said is true. When Hargreaves does those things they are constantly ignored by people like you. The Portsmourth match is a good example. He made some excellent long passes to start attacks. But all we heard on here from you and your comrades was how he was shit and couldn't pass the ball.
Failed to respond to a goal We already said Milan scored off a Kaka pass. Long before that video link was posted? Do you ever read anything people actual post?
I see. According to you Milan scoring a goal means Hargreaves MUST have had a bad game? Correct?
You're hatred for Hargreaves is too blatant to hide. It 's patheticFFS learn to read what is posted.
I was repsonding to Sam 1#'s utter stupidity, championing stats as a reason as to why Makelele allegedly passes the ball as good as Hargreaves or Mascherano even! On top of that I was talking about stats from a season or two back. Pointing out the obvious fact that stat's will never EVER tell you the simple truth that Makelele and Gavin McCann are lousy passers of the ball and Scholes is on of the worst tackles in the league. So where the feck did you get the idea I have a problem with Scholes?
At your current rate you're gonna be committed. First "Planet Hargreaves" and now this...you need help
It's like a black hole of idiocy.
If there's much more drivel posted in this thread, the whole thing will implode under it's own moronic weight and suck everyone, face first, through their computer screens.
And that's being kind.
I fully defended your remark on the passes - but I'm a little sceptical on the 'runs' - based mainly on his having a lot less 'game time' playing for us than Carrick. I did say that it would be closer than many reckon.
Sorry for thinking that you might have been indulging in some hyperbole.
FFS learn to read what is posted.
I was repsonding to Sam 1#'s utter stupidity, championing stats as a reason as to why Makelele allegedly passes the ball as good as Hargreaves or Mascherano even!
Eh? I said that the consensus was that Makelele is a bad passer. I personally didn't say if he was good or not.
And the stats say that he is roughly the same as Hargreaves and exactly the same as Mascherano .
Hargreaves 85/15
Mascherano 82/18
Makalele 82/18
I've just remembered another irritating thing about Hargreaves - he has a really crap habit of running with the ball towards his own goal.
You just defined the job of the back four itself. You clearly dont know anything about football. Or what a defensive midfielder is.
You don't have a clue. All season Hargreaves has won balls for us time and time again. But you are too blind to see it. He passes the ball simple and well most of the time. You are too busy dreaming of bad passes as it takes place to ever notice. Worst of all you are looking for Hargreaves to intercept passes. When he is busy winning the ball at it's source. Not waiting around for misplaced passes like Carrick does due to his physical deficiencies.
Frankly I won't bother anymore. You are just clueless and a WUM. The clock is ticking. Hargreaves will prove you wrong. And when he does don't you dare take the fecking line that "you always believed he could make it/wished him well" cause you fecking dont. That much is clear.
You wish., That was your poor attempt at humour. Which showed all the more what a freaking buffoon you really are. And being only 15 your condition will only get much worse.
I'm done with you when it comes to this issue. I just wait for you inevitable demise on this issue
Let's see - you proposed that certain unidentified people rated Effenberg as better than Keane - you were the first person in this thread therefore to provide a such a rating of him 'via the [then] unsubstantiated views of others' - whether you yourself believed it or not.
So my inaccuracy is non-existent - which rather makes your charges baseless - again.
Calm down Chief.
I don't know why I posted that. I know you won't.
I don't know why I posted that. I know you won't.
He's not the amazing defensive midfielder I thought we were buying.
Give him a chance at least.
But fair enough if that's your opinion, like.
But fair enough if that's your opinion, like.
Define the job of a DM ?
Is it or is it not to help protect the back 4 and hence, try and prevent us from conceding a goal ?
He won't.
I hope he does, but he won't.
There really is no need for that.
I may be 15, but there is only one person acting like a pathetic, spoilt kid, throwing all his toys out of his pram when things don't go his way.
Try and at least act like a mature adult.
Coming from Mister United can't beat Fulham? I don't think so. It's your lousy judgement at works as usual.
Is Sam seriously 15?
I must say he's been very impressive with his knowledge and demeanor for a 15 year old.
Be proud kid.
I'm guessing the really long word I'd have used this thread would be 'misrepresentation' - reasonably long - very simple to understand.
Let's see - you proposed that certain unidentified people rated Effenberg as better than Keane - you were the first person in this thread therefore to provide a such a rating of him 'via the [then] unsubstantiated views of others' - whether you yourself believed it or not.
So my inaccuracy is non-existent - which rather makes your charges baseless - again.
Oh come on. Plech posted this
Colin Cocknose said:
You can't argue with that, or require it to be substantiated, surely. If you do, you don't know much about football.
Erm...
Someone rubbish at both defending and going forward.
A bit like failed Police officers becoming Traffic Wardens.
Look who's throwing toys aout of his pram. I must have hit a nerve. Things ARE going my way. You proved you're clueless about football the momment you unleashed your description of a DM's job. Hargreaves IS going to prove you wrong.The only one who isn't having stuff going your way is.,...
drum roll................................
You!
Things ARE going my way. You proved you're clueless about football the momment you unleashed your description of a DM's job. Hargreaves IS going to prove you wrong.The only one who isn't having stuff going your way is.,...
drum roll................................
You!
You really are stupid.
And they're not and he won't.
I know you don't dear - a few seem to do though.
Anyone who thinks Hargreaves is shite and always will be needs there head examined. You could have used the same arguement with Ballack at Chelsea. Form is transient, class is permanent and Hargreaves has bags of class. The lads had no luck since hes arrived but Im certain that he'll get the praise he deserves before to long. This lads proven himself on the biggest stages in football, he's not full of potential, hes done it and worn the t shirt.
My point was about another false insult from Plech:
I said Plech was the only one so far this thread who had rated Effenberg as better than Keane (via the supposed views of others).
He said I was (by my own standards) lying etc. etc.
I objected.
Full of potential?
He's in his mid to late twenties
He's in his mid to late twenties
Did you read what I wrote, I said this is not a midfield rookie full of potential, he the finished article and has proven it.
there is no use arguing it, just leave it. At the end of the day, when he does prove his class and shows everyone that he is what united need, there will be a fair few of us that knew it and the rest will hop on the bandwagon and proclaim that they also knew this.
Word
For the record, I reckon Hargreaves Carrick and Anderson is going to be the shape of things to come in the midfield.
You clearly added that not in.
In anycase, pretending isn't going to make something come true.
Phil Neville, who nearly all United fans loved, was never a great player. The difference was that nobody was silly enough to convince themselves he was anything other than Phil Neville. Let alone come out with ridiculous drivel about him being "exactly what our team needs" after a dodgy 1-0 home win against Sunderland.
Average players don't magically become great just because Manchester United spent loads of money on them
Are you insane, read my post again, I elaborated for you in my second post so you would "get" what I wrote in the first.
Have you bothered to look at Hargreaves pedigree, what he has won and achieved?
In fact, don't bother, you are clearly a Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime.
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