It's only racist because of the history behind it.
Harbhajan banned for racist jibe
- Thread starter Frosty
- Start date
you are an even bigger idiot if you think symonds spoke to harbhajan in a gentlemans tone
wat do u expect harbhajjan to reply with????
i would have probably abused the feck out of him and he would have cried on television
what exactly is your argument
calling him a monkey is not racist as it is the truth, we are decended from monkeys.
However the whole point is that it was not made in reference to the fact that we evolved from monkeys.
Hence it IS a racist comment if it is made.
does that make sense to you? Or do I have to call you a monkey?
(kidding on the last part obviously)
the point is someone can call someone a monkey in a derogatory but not racist kind of way
have you ever called anyone a buffon or a donkey
or an ass or even a dog
we (indians) use the term gadha or bandar(monkey) in general ways
my dad tells my kid bro "bandaro jaisa bartaav mat karo insaano jaise raho"
that means " act like a human being not like a monkey"
is he being racist against his own son ??????
again it's context. What is meant is not always what is perceived.
Whilst he personally may not have meant it, he should have known better, especially after the controversy in india with the indian crowds.
thats fair enough
but bhajji isnt the most brightest of people i'd say
(now it is a common joke in india that Sikhs are stupid and when the clock hits 12 they go crazy - it is all meant in good fun/banter
and most of the jokes are based on them, many of you would consider that racist as well)
He should be warned and if it happens again, should be banned from playing cricket. He is a disgrace to cricket.
spot on
Procter took Australians' word in Harbhajan hearing
Back at the centre of the storm: Mike Procter
It has been revealed that Mike Procter, the match referee who found Harbhajan Singh guilty of calling Andrew Symonds a "monkey" during the Sydney Test, relied on the evidence of four Australian players in reaching his decision. Harbhajan was banned for three Tests for that offence but the sentence was suspended following an appeal, by the Indian team, which will be heard next week.
In a leaked copy of his report on the hearing, Procter says: "I have heard evidence from Andrew Symonds, Michael Clarke and Mathew Hayden that he did say these words. Harbhajan Singh denies saying these words. Both umpires did not hear nor did Ricky Ponting or Sachin Tendulkar. I am satisfied and sure beyond reasonable doubt that Harbhajan Singh did say these words.
"I am satisfied that the words were said and that the complaint to the umpires, which forms this charge, would not have been put forward falsely, I dismiss any suggestion of motive or malice."
Procter's decision came late into the night of January 6, after Australia won a Test match that was mired in controversy and ended amid inflamed passions among players and public. The race issue apart, there were several contentious umpiring decisions, largely going against India, and visible tensions between the teams. The verdict itself created almost as much controversy as the incident; it was welcomed and criticised along national lines, the neutrals preferring to wait and see how Procter reached his decision, and these revelations are likely to stir up emotions again..
Among those present at the hearing was Sachin Tendulkar, the other Indian batsman at the crease, but Procter indicates he would not have been within earshot of the incident. "It was submitted to me by Chetan Chauhan [the Indian team manager] that there was doubt because the umpires and other players did not hear the words but, in my judgment, they would not have been in a position to hear them," Procter says. "I note that Sachin Tendulkar only became involved when he realised that something was happening and was gestured over. He tried to calm things down because something had happened that he did not hear." The second issue he had to consider; Procter said, was whether Harbhajan used the words with the intention of insulting or offending him. "I am sure beyond reasonable doubt that the use of the word "monkey" or "big monkey" was said to insult or offend Andrew Symonds on the basis of his race, colour or ethnic origin."
While asserting that whatever may have been said between them prior to the exchange in question was irrelevant, Procter acknowledges there was a "history" between the two dating back to the one-day international in Mumbai late last year.
"It is not relevant to my findings here to decide what happened in Mumbai. Nevertheless there was trouble in Mumbai when members of the crowd were arrested for using the word "monkey" and gesturing towards Andrew Symonds. This caused both Indian and Australian boards to issue a joint-statement. To this extent Mumbai is relevant to this hearing."
The spat between Harbhajan and Symonds took place on the third day of the second Test in Sydney, when India were batting. Symonds later revealed he approached Harbhajan after the Indian offspinner had tapped Brett Lee on the back with his bat.
"I was standing nearby and when I saw what happened, I thought, 'Hold on, that's not on'," Symonds told the Herald Sun: "I'm a firm believer in sticking up for your team-mate so I stepped in and had a bit of a crack at Harbhajan, telling him exactly what I thought of his antics. He then had a shot back, which brings us to the situation we're facing."
Tendulkar and the umpires - Mark Benson and Steve Bucknor - intervened to defuse the situation, Benson covering his mouth while talking to Harbhajan to avoid lip-reading television viewers. The umpires reported Harbhajan to Procter after receiving a complaint from Australia's captain Ricky Ponting, who was abiding by the ICC directives concerning racism.
Following India's appeal the ICC appointed New Zealand judge John Hansen to chair the hearing, which is slated to be held on January 29 and 30.
Back at the centre of the storm: Mike Procter
It has been revealed that Mike Procter, the match referee who found Harbhajan Singh guilty of calling Andrew Symonds a "monkey" during the Sydney Test, relied on the evidence of four Australian players in reaching his decision. Harbhajan was banned for three Tests for that offence but the sentence was suspended following an appeal, by the Indian team, which will be heard next week.
In a leaked copy of his report on the hearing, Procter says: "I have heard evidence from Andrew Symonds, Michael Clarke and Mathew Hayden that he did say these words. Harbhajan Singh denies saying these words. Both umpires did not hear nor did Ricky Ponting or Sachin Tendulkar. I am satisfied and sure beyond reasonable doubt that Harbhajan Singh did say these words.
"I am satisfied that the words were said and that the complaint to the umpires, which forms this charge, would not have been put forward falsely, I dismiss any suggestion of motive or malice."
Procter's decision came late into the night of January 6, after Australia won a Test match that was mired in controversy and ended amid inflamed passions among players and public. The race issue apart, there were several contentious umpiring decisions, largely going against India, and visible tensions between the teams. The verdict itself created almost as much controversy as the incident; it was welcomed and criticised along national lines, the neutrals preferring to wait and see how Procter reached his decision, and these revelations are likely to stir up emotions again..
Among those present at the hearing was Sachin Tendulkar, the other Indian batsman at the crease, but Procter indicates he would not have been within earshot of the incident. "It was submitted to me by Chetan Chauhan [the Indian team manager] that there was doubt because the umpires and other players did not hear the words but, in my judgment, they would not have been in a position to hear them," Procter says. "I note that Sachin Tendulkar only became involved when he realised that something was happening and was gestured over. He tried to calm things down because something had happened that he did not hear." The second issue he had to consider; Procter said, was whether Harbhajan used the words with the intention of insulting or offending him. "I am sure beyond reasonable doubt that the use of the word "monkey" or "big monkey" was said to insult or offend Andrew Symonds on the basis of his race, colour or ethnic origin."
While asserting that whatever may have been said between them prior to the exchange in question was irrelevant, Procter acknowledges there was a "history" between the two dating back to the one-day international in Mumbai late last year.
"It is not relevant to my findings here to decide what happened in Mumbai. Nevertheless there was trouble in Mumbai when members of the crowd were arrested for using the word "monkey" and gesturing towards Andrew Symonds. This caused both Indian and Australian boards to issue a joint-statement. To this extent Mumbai is relevant to this hearing."
The spat between Harbhajan and Symonds took place on the third day of the second Test in Sydney, when India were batting. Symonds later revealed he approached Harbhajan after the Indian offspinner had tapped Brett Lee on the back with his bat.
"I was standing nearby and when I saw what happened, I thought, 'Hold on, that's not on'," Symonds told the Herald Sun: "I'm a firm believer in sticking up for your team-mate so I stepped in and had a bit of a crack at Harbhajan, telling him exactly what I thought of his antics. He then had a shot back, which brings us to the situation we're facing."
Tendulkar and the umpires - Mark Benson and Steve Bucknor - intervened to defuse the situation, Benson covering his mouth while talking to Harbhajan to avoid lip-reading television viewers. The umpires reported Harbhajan to Procter after receiving a complaint from Australia's captain Ricky Ponting, who was abiding by the ICC directives concerning racism.
Following India's appeal the ICC appointed New Zealand judge John Hansen to chair the hearing, which is slated to be held on January 29 and 30.
I hate the cnut. and all the other Indian cricketers.
I hate them too. except Sachin, Dravid, Ganguly, Kumble, Pathan, Kaif, Zaheer.
He has been cleared of all charges.
Im shocked.
Now there is a suprise.
The same could be said for any racist word. Nigger meant nothing until it was used in a derogatory manner. It doesn't mean that it isn't a foul racist slur now.
Brilliant.It actually shows just how much we control the ICC because with the transcripts coming out it was almost clear that the idiot had infact said it.They don't hand out bans for stupidity though...I'd give the ICC one.
What transcripts?
They don't hand out bans for stupidity though...I'd give the ICC one.
Only one I read about was the oen saying Proctor took aussies' word over Indians.
They played the stump camera audio on the news. He plainly called him a monkey, possibly twice. The hearing has coped out by dismissing the racism charge but just calling it insulting behaviour or whatever the phrase was.
A serious cop out. If the ICC caved under pressure any faster we would be in danger from shrapnel.
A serious cop out. If the ICC caved under pressure any faster we would be in danger from shrapnel.
So basically you can say anything racist you like as long as the Umpires dont hear it?
Tremendous stuff for the rest of the summer. Sreesanth is in for fun.
Tremendous stuff for the rest of the summer. Sreesanth is in for fun.
Or you can say anything racist you like as long as you claim you meant it as a regular insult rather than anything racist.
Or something.
Or something.
No, it means we can get away with murder.
This was brilliant
This was brilliant
hehe
ICC headquaters 30 seconds after hearing there was going to be an appeal.
This is brilliant. Everybody is going to start appealing now.
All this time Eto'o thought it was all to do with the colour of his skin...
All this time Eto'o thought it was all to do with the colour of his skin...
Don`t blame Mehro
I blame Miss Dangerous!
I haven't seen the transcripts but if he did say it then he's feckin liar and an idiot. Also, he's made Sachin lie on his behalf. The ICC are a bunch of eunuchs and the BCCI is full of thugs.
The appeal commissioner of the International Cricket Council, New Zealand high court judge John Hansen, is due to hand down an explanation for his ruling in Adelaide on Wednesday.
It is not clear if he will make recommendations about how such situations, where the word of one team is pitted against the other, can be avoided.
A spokesman for the ICC told BBC Sport senior officials at the governing body would need "a few days to digest what the commisioner says" before making any further comment.
"Justice Hansen said that he was convinced that on all evidence submitted before him the charge of a level 3.3 offence was not proven, but that Harbhajan should be charged with a level 2.8 offence," an ICC spokesman said.
At the time of the incident, Harbhajan was batting alongside Sachin Tendulkar, who backed his team-mate's claim that he had not called Symonds a "monkey".
The Indian board and Cricket Australia released a joint statement endorsing the appeal decision.
.... "Both captains also said they were satisfied with the outcome between their respective players and they looked forward to the cricket battles that lie ahead."
BBC sports editor Mihir Bose revealed that the Indians claimed Harbhajan had used a Hindi phrase that could be misheard as "big monkey" in English.
Bits from BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/7212634.stm
It is not clear if he will make recommendations about how such situations, where the word of one team is pitted against the other, can be avoided.
A spokesman for the ICC told BBC Sport senior officials at the governing body would need "a few days to digest what the commisioner says" before making any further comment.
"Justice Hansen said that he was convinced that on all evidence submitted before him the charge of a level 3.3 offence was not proven, but that Harbhajan should be charged with a level 2.8 offence," an ICC spokesman said.
At the time of the incident, Harbhajan was batting alongside Sachin Tendulkar, who backed his team-mate's claim that he had not called Symonds a "monkey".
The Indian board and Cricket Australia released a joint statement endorsing the appeal decision.
.... "Both captains also said they were satisfied with the outcome between their respective players and they looked forward to the cricket battles that lie ahead."
BBC sports editor Mihir Bose revealed that the Indians claimed Harbhajan had used a Hindi phrase that could be misheard as "big monkey" in English.
Bits from BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/7212634.stm
what a load of bollocks
if a white English/Aussie cricketer called an black cricketer a monkey there would be an uproar and they would probably never play again.
racism should not be tollerated in any way shape or form
if a white English/Aussie cricketer called an black cricketer a monkey there would be an uproar and they would probably never play again.
racism should not be tollerated in any way shape or form
It wasn't racism though ..... (sarrrrrrcasm - don't want to start this debate off again!)
What was it then?
Can I go to the One Dayer in Sydney and call Sreesanth a black cnut? Its not racism though as I am just describing what he looks like.
Can I go to the One Dayer in Sydney and call Sreesanth a black cnut? Its not racism though as I am just describing what he looks like.
oh i like the white quote bit
so I won't bother with this
the transcript I feel is pretty damning on Harbhajan. The video I saw on the herald website doesn't sohw him saying monkey, but what has been shown on the video is still pretty convincing:
The conversation between Australian players and Harbhajan Singh that was picked up by the Channel Nine stump microphone:
Symonds to Harbhajan: "Go and yell at your teammates. You called me a monkey again?"
Hayden: "Twice."
Hayden approaches Harbhajan, saying: "You've got a witness now, champ. That's the last time."
Harbhajan: "No listen, he started it."
Hayden: "It doesn't matter, mate. It's racial vilification. It's a shit word and you know it."
Clarke then approaches umpire Mark Benson, saying: "It's not the first time. He done it in India and got into strife. That's the second time he's done it."
Ponting walks up to Benson and gestures towards umpire Steve Bucknor, saying: "Go and tell him. Go and tell him straight away."
(from www.smh.com.au/)
The first bit about it is, Hayden immediately comes in and says it, and I don't think the Aussies (unsporting as they were in that test) would have collaborated to pounce at that particular moment (it was all off the cuff stuff). If Singh did not say it, he would have said as much 'no, I didn't call him a monkey' isn't it natural for us to deny something we have been accused of when we didn't do it?
instead he says 'he started it'
so that leads me to believe more so that he did infact call him that
If that is true then
Harbhajan: "No listen, he started it."
feck sake
Harbhajan: "No listen, he started it."
feck sake
Yes I had seen the white bit.
I just wanted to call Sreesanth a cnut. Warming it up for when I go watch him play in a couple of weeks
If that is true then
Harbhajan: "No listen, he started it."
feck sake
Best defence in the world.
I hope to see it get used in a lot more cases