Hannibal Mejbri | Birmingham Loan Watch

Messier1994 said:
Good review.

Just from BCs perspective, I think it’s a bit false security with the possession numbers since the away team took a 2-0 lease and then gave up possession.

But I 100% agree with your take on HM, his role as a deep lying playmaker is one I wanna see him more in.

What worried me the most was that they came up with a plan that was a desk product without the necessary instructions and ground work to make the game plan work. 100% if someone like Potter took over them, and wanted to play more up field, he would have them focusing on 2-3 plays and make them work. You just cannot expect to achieve anything playing up from the back unless set up so that you always get numerical advantages in certain areas.
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Birmingham haven't even been attempting to play out from the back in their 352 shape in possession even against teams who give them space in the defensive phase. And believe me there's many teams in the Championship who just sit off and allow the opponent to play out from the back. Birmingham in that scenario were looking to go long towards to their wingbacks who were positioned high and what would then develop was a battle for the first and second balls high up the pitch with Birmingham applying the press and counter press in the event they lose possession. And they were hence losing possession too often which meant there was far more running to do due to not having enough of the ball. I think the players got jaded playing that way and also the opposition figured out Birmingham's tactics which were mainly geared towards getting the ball forward into the box for the likes of Hogan and Deeney. So it was easy to see why they had the worst possession stats in the league.

Preston sat off from the start but Birmingham changed formation and went with a back 4, and that meant they were playing through their midfield rather than going long towards their wingbacks. And I think it's probably better to strategize with a midfield of Bielik and Hannibal in the build up phase rather than the strikers Hogan and Deeney where a more direct approach was implemented via attempting to win the loose ball with the aid of the press/counter press.

We also have to take into account that Birmingham are struggling financially and have about 8 loan players on their books because they have little to no money with fan protests planned against their ownership.

I honestly think if we had sent any one of our other youngsters on loan to Birmingham they would've struggled. But Hannibal adapted to Eustace's tactics and had the work rate and engine to be a net positive when it came to pressing and counter pressing which was a requirement.

I personally feel Birmingham would likely be a better team if they dropped one of Hogan or Deeney and went with a 433/4231 shape in possession. That would allow a extra player in midfield like either Jordan James or George Hall and give Hannibal more freedom going forward. Because in the last game he was positionally very disciplined and tracked his runner superbly well but the numerical superiority wasn't their in the final third due to the formation imo.
 
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krazyrobus said:
I only said touch and passing. I'll expand on both, when you see Amad control the ball, it's clear to see he touch is head and shoulders above anyone on the pitch. I'm not getting that with Hannibal compared to whoever he is around.

On the passing, I mean the long ground passing above 15 metres trying to rush a pass to an attacker. They kept being short and either hitting the defender or attacker on their heels. I am by no means saying he is a better/worse player than Mctom, I hope to god he is better, because it immediately improves the squad next season, it was just basic observations from the last two sets of highlights.
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Yeah the passing was very mixed but, I think, better than McT, albeit higher risk.

A lot of his passes don’t come off and I think that’s experience. Hannibal plays too instinctively at the moment but, as he develops, his game should get refined. It’s true he might never reach the level he’ll need to get into our team but, to me, his basic technique is good and the way he is playing, whilst raw, is encouraging.
 
Adnan said:
I watched the game on ifollow earlier and Birmingham did lose again, but this time there was a change of formation to 442 and they were actually trying to build play through the thirds. And Hannibal was far more involved on the ball compared to before the formation change, where his average touches per game were around 33 per game. And he only played around 60 minutes today before being subbed due to being on a yellow card but amassed around 49 touches. But his last two yellow cards were a little unfortunate imo and the highlights below against Forest Green and today's game against Preston show both yellow card incidents.

I think the way Birmingham setup today is the way to go and they should look to build play through the thirds. Bielik was dropping in as the extra CB in the build up and Hannibal was occupying the space in the deeper build up phase just ahead of the first line. And if they carry on playing like that, I think it will suit Hannibal and Birmingham City going forward because they also now have a young player on loan from Brighton who is very quick and plays on the left wing. But they have two battering rams up front in Hogan and Deeney, so the final third is about getting the crosses in because there's not going to be intricate play around the box involving them.

But this was a game where Birmingham had 66% possession and it's a step in the right direction as far as attempting to control possession. And they lost the game because they conceded from a corner kick and the first goal came about after a double ricochet which fell kindly to a Preston player who fired in from 20 yards.





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Thanks for this. Still really hopeful he can make it here. What's the next step after this loan? Another loan elsewhere or brought into the fold under ten Hag? I'd love to see him alongside Casemiro and Bruno.
 
redcucumber said:
Thanks for this. Still really hopeful he can make it here. What's the next step after this loan? Another loan elsewhere or brought into the fold under ten Hag? I'd love to see him alongside Casemiro and Bruno.
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Your guess is as good as mine, mate.

But if i'm to give you my opinion, I'm hoping he's given a opportunity in the first team because not only would he provide a higher technical ability on the ball in comparison to Fred and Mctominay, he also has fantastic fitness levels/running power and the ability to carry/dribble the ball whilst maintaining poise and composure, which is evident in the highlights below.

And currently he's playing in a Birmingham team that is struggling both on and off the pitch. And I presume the struggles will only aid his development whilst being guided by the senior players at Birmingham. Normally our youngsters take a few loans to settle but Hannibal has adapted really well, pretty much straight away in a play style that didn't really suit him at the start. But there's signs of that changing as I alluded to in my previous posts.

 
redcucumber said:
Thanks for this. Still really hopeful he can make it here. What's the next step after this loan? Another loan elsewhere or brought into the fold under ten Hag? I'd love to see him alongside Casemiro and Bruno.
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Presumably a Prem loan.
 
I think Erik ten Hag should be in a position to make a assessment on Hannibal come the end of the season. And it's important to be decisive in the decision making process because sending players on consecutive loans isn't proven to be a formula for success. Harry Kane is a example of that where according to Tim Sherwood he was sent on loans to Millwall, Norwich and Leicester. And all three clubs came to the conclusion he wasn't good enough. The Spurs head coach Vilas Boas and the DoF at the time also deemed Kane not good enough. And if it wasn't for Sherwood replacing Vilas Boas, Kane would've been cast aside because even the Spurs fans would sing Soldado's name when Sherwood gave Kane first team minutes.

https://talksport.com/football/1313275/tottenham-harry-kane-tim-sherwood-millwall-norwich-leicester/
 
AltiUn said:
Presumably a Prem loan.
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Loans for midfielders are so tough. Preferably you want them in sides that will control the game and play good stuff so the player learns the nuances of getting into the game/ finding space/ creating etc. But any club that's looking to loan a midfielder will most likely not be that sort of side, they'll be more defensive minded just trying to scrap points and results.

I'm skeptical on if we have enough funds to bring in two top tier midfielders this summer, so it would be nice if Hannibal could come back and impress so he can rotate next season here instead of having to go back out on loan.
 
I'd have high hopes that both Hannibal and Amad should be part of the first team squad next season, and replacing the minutes of Elanga and probably McTominay? We still need a starting CM in the summer regardless, potentially even two.

Amad is probably more ready than Hannibal. I would be worried with him in CM against prem opposition. Both seemingly have bags of potential and should make it here.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Loans for midfielders are so tough. Preferably you want them in sides that will control the game and play good stuff so the player learns the nuances of getting into the game/ finding space/ creating etc. But any club that's looking to loan a midfielder will most likely not be that sort of side, they'll be more defensive minded just trying to scrap points and results.

I'm skeptical on if we have enough funds to bring in two top tier midfielders this summer, so it would be nice if Hannibal could come back and impress so he can rotate next season here instead of having to go back out on loan.
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Agree with this somewhat. It’s incredibly challenging to find a good nurturing environment for players like Hannibal who want to be on the ball especially if it’s a loan.

Key question is is he good enough to replace Eriksen/Bruno or is the drop off in quality too big right now to give him a squad role?

Id argue he’s not yet there development wise and maybe needs one more loan.
 
I hope we keep him next year as back up and competition to Eriksen
 
I didn't watch the game but from what I'm reading online, he made a impact in the second half which helped Birmingham come from 2-1 down to win 4-3 at Swansea.

Birmingham only had 28% of the ball according to the statistics, and his individual statistics, considering Birmingham are notorious for giving the ball away, are good.





 
Adnan said:
I think Erik ten Hag should be in a position to make a assessment on Hannibal come the end of the season. And it's important to be decisive in the decision making process because sending players on consecutive loans isn't proven to be a formula for success. Harry Kane is a example of that where according to Tim Sherwood he was sent on loans to Millwall, Norwich and Leicester. And all three clubs came to the conclusion he wasn't good enough. The Spurs head coach Vilas Boas and the DoF at the time also deemed Kane not good enough. And if it wasn't for Sherwood replacing Vilas Boas, Kane would've been cast aside because even the Spurs fans would sing Soldado's name when Sherwood gave Kane first team minutes.

https://talksport.com/football/1313275/tottenham-harry-kane-tim-sherwood-millwall-norwich-leicester/
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He was Millwall's young player of the year according to that article (and Wiki says he saved them from relegation with some key goals) so they surely thought he was good enough.

Feels like the real story here is that Kane was bizarrely loaned to Leicester despite them having David Nugent (maybe the best striker in the league? Had an England cap, only about 28 and he was always an unselfsh link up player if I recall correctly) and having just signed Chris Wood who did score 9 in 12 for New Zealand in the year just completed and 11 in 19 in the Champo, so a 2nd 1 in 2 striker at that level.

I guess they figured Vardy (who had struggled a lot that year after jumping up 3 divisions) wasn't a Champo quality 3rd striker and Kane would get lots of minutes as the 3rd striker in what I assume was a 4-4-2 setup, but this just looks like a classic terrible 2010s loan (lord knows United had several of these) to the wrong team after an injury derailed his Norwich loan. If they'd just let him stay at Norwich or sent him to a different Champo team with worse options up front, he probably just has 2 successful loans and one that failed due to a horrible injury.
 
NoPace said:
He was Millwall's young player of the year according to that article (and Wiki says he saved them from relegation with some key goals) so they surely thought he was good enough.

Feels like the real story here is that Kane was bizarrely loaned to Leicester despite them having David Nugent (maybe the best striker in the league? Had an England cap, only about 28 and he was always an unselfsh link up player if I recall correctly) and having just signed Chris Wood who did score 9 in 12 for New Zealand in the year just completed and 11 in 19 in the Champo, so a 2nd 1 in 2 striker at that level.

I guess they figured Vardy (who had struggled a lot that year after jumping up 3 divisions) wasn't a Champo quality 3rd striker and Kane would get lots of minutes as the 3rd striker in what I assume was a 4-4-2 setup, but this just looks like a classic terrible 2010s loan (lord knows United had several of these) to the wrong team after an injury derailed his Norwich loan. If they'd just let him stay at Norwich or sent him to a different Champo team with worse options up front, he probably just has 2 successful loans and one that failed due to a horrible injury.
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The article does state that he was Millwall's young player of the year. But I wonder who the other youngsters were at Millwall at the time. The quote below from Tim Sherwood (above article) is pretty self explanatory and it just goes to show how loans could end up distorting the decision making process at the parent club.

Writing in his column for the Daily Mail, Sherwood said: “Every manager that took Harry on loan said he wouldn’t make it. There wasn’t one who said he would. If they tell you different, they’re lying. I’m not knocking that. It was their opinion at the time."
 
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This loan seems a really bad fit because of Birmingham’s playing style.
however, it’s premature to draw the conclusion this is a wasted year. Maybe, an experience like this is a great treasure for Hannibal to develop his mental readiness which might be something he actually needs the most at this stage.
 
city-puma said:
This loan seems a really bad fit because of Birmingham’s playing style.
however, it’s premature to draw the conclusion this is a wasted year. Maybe, an experience like this is a great treasure for Hannibal to develop his mental readiness which might be something he actually needs the most at this stage.
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Hopefully we can pick out a better fit for him next season, like we have done with Amad.
 
city-puma said:
This loan seems a really bad fit because of Birmingham’s playing style.
however, it’s premature to draw the conclusion this is a wasted year. Maybe, an experience like this is a great treasure for Hannibal to develop his mental readiness which might be something he actually needs the most at this stage.
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I agree.

The loan is actually going very well. He's playing consistently and is contributing to the way the manager wants to play the game. But the way they're playing requires Hannibal to do alot of running because they aren't very good at keeping the ball. And his stamina levels are naturally good for a midfielder hence he's adapted to the play style.

He's having a good loan at a team that is struggling both on the pitch and financially. It would be nice if he was at a club that dominated the ball alittle bit more, but he's doing well in a team that is struggling, which will hopefully aid his development going forward.
 
Adnan said:
The article does state that he was Millwall's young player of the year. But I wonder who the other youngsters were at Millwall at the time. The quote below from Tim Sherwood (above article) is pretty self explanatory and it just goes to show that loans could end up distorting the decision making process at the parent club.

Writing in his column for the Daily Mail, Sherwood said: “Every manager that took Harry on loan said he wouldn’t make it. There wasn’t one who said he would. If they tell you different, they’re lying. I’m not knocking that. It was their opinion at the time."
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Honestly, this article seems to me just some effort from a failed manager to claim something. Especially the part about Villas Boas, who actually was playing Kane in cup games.
 
I agree with @Adnan that Ten Hag and the club should assess in the summer the loans of Hannibal and Amad and be decisive in terms whether they are integrated into the first team as squad options or let go, sending them to another loan isn't the answer, for now both are playing consistently for their current teams and that will give them both the necessary experience they need, if they continue on the same trajectory then that should allow the club to make the decision on their future come summer 2023.

My hope is that they are integrated into the squad, and together with Garnacho they can become part of a strong core of the team in the future.
 
Adnan said:
The article does state that he was Millwall's young player of the year. But I wonder who the other youngsters were at Millwall at the time. The quote below from Tim Sherwood (above article) is pretty self explanatory and it just goes to show how loans could end up distorting the decision making process at the parent club.

Writing in his column for the Daily Mail, Sherwood said: “Every manager that took Harry on loan said he wouldn’t make it. There wasn’t one who said he would. If they tell you different, they’re lying. I’m not knocking that. It was their opinion at the time."
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Fecking no one. He was the youngest player in the squad at the time from what I remember - maybe John Marquis was younger? Can't be bothered to look up as he was bang average.

Everytime I saw Kane at the den, there was undeniable talent, but massively questionable decision making. He used to shoot from absolutely anywhere, which was good fun at time, but also frustrating as feck to watch. No one could honestly tell me at the time, they were watching the lad that will break Shearer's record and become England top scorer. You'd be full of shit!
 
Is he actually developing there? If yes, what has he improved upon from getting there 'til now?
 
Lash said:
Fecking no one. He was the youngest player in the squad at the time from what I remember - maybe John Marquis was younger? Can't be bothered to look up as he was bang average.

Everytime I saw Kane at the den, there was undeniable talent, but massively questionable decision making. He used to shoot from absolutely anywhere, which was good fun at time, but also frustrating as feck to watch. No one could honestly tell me at the time, they were watching the lad that will break Shearer's record and become England top scorer. You'd be full of shit!
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It's hard to predict development from the youth to the mens game. I do wonder at times what would've become of Kane if he was released from Spurs.
 
Fortitude said:
Is he actually developing there? If yes, what has he improved upon from getting there 'til now?
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I think his off the ball play has developed really well. He's a high intensity player with a remarkable work rate where it's been stated by the Birmingham manager that he's shown up remarkably well in the bleep tests. And he's a creative CM/AM from his youth days.

So in a team that doesn't look to dominate the ball, I'd say his positional play off the ball surely must've improved. I think the potential is there on the ball aswell, but it depends on the team he's playing in.
 
Adnan said:
The article does state that he was Millwall's young player of the year. But I wonder who the other youngsters were at Millwall at the time. The quote below from Tim Sherwood (above article) is pretty self explanatory and it just goes to show how loans could end up distorting the decision making process at the parent club.

Writing in his column for the Daily Mail, Sherwood said: “Every manager that took Harry on loan said he wouldn’t make it. There wasn’t one who said he would. If they tell you different, they’re lying. I’m not knocking that. It was their opinion at the time."
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Oh yeah, I'm not knocking you, I'm saying Sherwood is exaggerating/lying. I believe Spurs higher ups told him Kane isn't PL quality and will be a good Champo striker but that's it, but I find it hard to believe the Millwall manager Kenny Jackett told him that when he's also said:

"It’s always difficult to know how a young player will turn out. But I have never seen a young player with a capacity to work like Harry. So in that way I am not surprised he has gone on to do what he has done....Harry had been a player we had tried to get previously. We’d watched him a number of times and we’d seen he was a very good technical player with a terrific touch who had always scored plenty of goals coming through the youth ranks...Good promising young centre-forwards are very hard to get hold off and so we were very pleased to sign him...He was 18 going on 19 at the time when he came to us and did very well. We also had Andy Keogh, who was an experienced Championship striker and they complimented each other very well....We had struggled at the start of the season but we ended up finishing above Charlton and Crystal Palace and Harry played a big part in that.”
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What kind of manager has a 19 year old striker who he thinks "has a terrific touch" and is the hardest working young player he's ever managed and helps them climb the table goes around saying "he won't make it." Possible, but my guess is Sherwood is exaggerating/lying.
 
Adnan said:
I think his off the ball play has developed really well. He's a high intensity player with a remarkable work rate where it's been stated by the Birmingham manager that he's shown up remarkably well in the bleep tests. And he's a creative CM/AM from his youth days.

So in a team that doesn't look to dominate the ball, I'd say his positional play off the ball surely must've improved. I think the potential is there on the ball aswell, but it depends on the team he's playing in.
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Interesting. Where would you place his current trajectory i.e. what would you foresee as the next move with him, if we consider where he's at as of this moment? Do you think he's PL-ready yet?
 
Fortitude said:
Interesting. Where would you place his current trajectory i.e. what would you foresee as the next move with him, if we consider where he's at as of this moment? Do you think he's PL-ready yet?
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He's not even been a guaranteed starter for a crap Birmingham team over the last couple of months.

It certainly doesn't seem likely he's ready to play for Utd next season, unless he was just kept around like Pellistri has been purely for 5 minutes off the bench in pointless League Cup games. He won't be ready for a PL loan next season either given he's not really done much at Brum.
 
NoPace said:
Oh yeah, I'm not knocking you, I'm saying Sherwood is exaggerating/lying. I believe Spurs higher ups told him Kane isn't PL quality and will be a good Champo striker but that's it, but I find it hard to believe the Millwall manager Kenny Jackett told him that when he's also said:



What kind of manager has a 19 year old striker who he thinks "has a terrific touch" and is the hardest working young player he's ever managed and helps them climb the table goes around saying "he won't make it." Possible, but my guess is Sherwood is exaggerating/lying.
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You could be correct. It looks like someone is lying.
 
Fortitude said:
Interesting. Where would you place his current trajectory i.e. what would you foresee as the next move with him, if we consider where he's at as of this moment? Do you think he's PL-ready yet?
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It's difficult to say. He's doing very well in a struggling Birmingham team that is looking to bypass the first and second phase and hence wanting to win the first and second ball in the final third. If Amad had gone to Birmingham instead of Sunderland, I honestly think Amad would've been stuck on the bench at the club because that's not a play style that suits him.

I think we should either give him a opportunity in the first team or sell him to Marseille in France who are reportedly interested in him. And that interest makes sense due to our former French youth scout, Mathieu Seckinger being in a prominent scouting role at the club. And according to reports over the years, Seckinger is very close to the player and his family.

We could send him on loan again to a newly promoted EPL team, but he will probably end up at a club that will cede possession. But at Marseille, he'll be at a club who are challenging for the top 4. And a club like that will look to be more dominant on the ball which will help Hannibal's development on the ball.

He's technically good on the ball, is very good at carrying/dribbling the ball and has immense work rate and tenacity. And if he's not going to make the United first team, then a move to Marseille with a buy back clause looks the best way forward for the player imo.
 
Adnan said:
We could send him on loan again to a newly promoted EPL team, but he will probably end up at a club that will cede possession. But at Marseille, he'll be at a club who are challenging for the top 4. And a club like that will look to be more dominant on the ball which will help Hannibal's development on the ball.

He's technically good on the ball, is very good at carrying/dribbling the ball and has immense work rate and tenacity. And if he's not going to make the United first team, then a move to Marseille with a buy back clause looks the best way forward for the player imo.
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Marseill just signed Ounahi, so there's probably a better good Ligue 1 team for him to join. Maybe Rennes if Majer gets bought by someone? They have Spence and Rodon on loan so clearly think there's value in English talent that can't get minutes at top 7 teams.
 
NoPace said:
Marseill just signed Ounahi, so there's probably a better good Ligue 1 team for him to join. Maybe Rennes if Majer gets bought by someone? They have Spence and Rodon on loan so clearly think there's value in English talent that can't get minutes at top 7 teams.
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I think any top club in France would potentially be a good move for a young player like Hannibal. But I'm hoping he's given a chance at United, because we don't have another young midfielder with a similar profile who has the technical and physical capabilities off the ball, where his ability off the ball would really help when it comes to implementing a high pressure intense play style. And that's important for any proactive attack minded coach.
 
Adnan said:
It's difficult to say. He's doing very well in a struggling Birmingham team that is looking to bypass the first and second phase and hence wanting to win the first and second ball in the final third. If Amad had gone to Birmingham instead of Sunderland, I honestly think Amad would've been stuck on the bench at the club because that's not a play style that suits him.

I think we should either give him a opportunity in the first team or sell him to Marseille in France who are reportedly interested in him. And that interest makes sense due to our former French youth scout, Mathieu Seckinger being in a prominent scouting role at the club. And according to reports over the years, Seckinger is very close to the player and his family.

We could send him on loan again to a newly promoted EPL team, but he will probably end up at a club that will cede possession. But at Marseille, he'll be at a club who are challenging for the top 4. And a club like that will look to be more dominant on the ball which will help Hannibal's development on the ball.

He's technically good on the ball, is very good at carrying/dribbling the ball and has immense work rate and tenacity. And if he's not going to make the United first team, then a move to Marseille with a buy back clause looks the best way forward for the player imo.
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I am sure those attributes would be welcomed by Erik.
 
Adnan said:
It's difficult to say. He's doing very well in a struggling Birmingham team that is looking to bypass the first and second phase and hence wanting to win the first and second ball in the final third. If Amad had gone to Birmingham instead of Sunderland, I honestly think Amad would've been stuck on the bench at the club because that's not a play style that suits him.

I think we should either give him a opportunity in the first team or sell him to Marseille in France who are reportedly interested in him. And that interest makes sense due to our former French youth scout, Mathieu Seckinger being in a prominent scouting role at the club. And according to reports over the years, Seckinger is very close to the player and his family.

We could send him on loan again to a newly promoted EPL team, but he will probably end up at a club that will cede possession. But at Marseille, he'll be at a club who are challenging for the top 4. And a club like that will look to be more dominant on the ball which will help Hannibal's development on the ball.

He's technically good on the ball, is very good at carrying/dribbling the ball and has immense work rate and tenacity. And if he's not going to make the United first team, then a move to Marseille with a buy back clause looks the best way forward for the player imo.
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I think this is where we are still legging behind, we need to learn the skill of selling at the right time and inserting the right clauses like buy backs and first refusals. If we had a CM at Bruno's level and age maybe we could use him as an understudy with the hope of him replacing that said CM as a starter in a couple of years but Hannibal may yet be a couple of years away and we will sign the required CM next summer and thereby blocking his pathway.

The next best option is to sell him for maybe €30m with a €60m buyback clause that remains valid until he is in the last year of his contract with his new club. This gives him four years of development on a platform that allows him to show what he is about and if we are in need of a CM then we just exercise our option and get him back. In the interim we get the funds to help fund the first team's inmediate needs, should hae done the same with Henderson after his year at Sheffield.
 
Adnan said:
It's difficult to say. He's doing very well in a struggling Birmingham team that is looking to bypass the first and second phase and hence wanting to win the first and second ball in the final third. If Amad had gone to Birmingham instead of Sunderland, I honestly think Amad would've been stuck on the bench at the club because that's not a play style that suits him.

I think we should either give him a opportunity in the first team or sell him to Marseille in France who are reportedly interested in him. And that interest makes sense due to our former French youth scout, Mathieu Seckinger being in a prominent scouting role at the club. And according to reports over the years, Seckinger is very close to the player and his family.

We could send him on loan again to a newly promoted EPL team, but he will probably end up at a club that will cede possession. But at Marseille, he'll be at a club who are challenging for the top 4. And a club like that will look to be more dominant on the ball which will help Hannibal's development on the ball.

He's technically good on the ball, is very good at carrying/dribbling the ball and has immense work rate and tenacity. And if he's not going to make the United first team, then a move to Marseille with a buy back clause looks the best way forward for the player imo.
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Cheers for that.
 
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