He was a lot more creative with the ball at youth level and his aggression made him stand out. He was a good punt for what we paid for him and he was regarded as one of the best 16 year olds in the world. He needs games and he’s not going to be getting them here. If we can make a profit and put a sell on or buy back then I think we should. Unless he’s going out to a team to be a starter. Then I’d wait as his value could go up but he’s isn’t going to be worth much less either way
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He was a lot more creative with the ball at youth level and his aggression made him stand out. He was a good punt for what we paid for him and he was regarded as one of the best 16 year olds in the world. He needs games and he’s not going to be getting them here. If we can make a profit and put a sell on or buy back then I think we should. Unless he’s going out to a team to be a starter. Then I’d wait as his value could go up but he’s isn’t going to be worth much less either way
Well I'm not claiming that he's better than Onana, Garner or Doucoure, I'm just claiming he will be alot closer to getting minutes at Everton (through injuries, rotation or tactical reasons) compared to his minutes staying with us where he is effectively "8th choice" in our midfield.
Not sure if I would agree with the bolded part, especially if we're comparing with our "strongest midfield three" in a team that is not injury-plagued.
For the rest see my reply to SilentWitness above - but I'll add that if he's not able to get more minutes at Everton than he would with us then he's probably not at the required standard to be considered for a role with us next season.
Anyways, it looks like he's heading to Sevilla...
I don't think some of our players are better individually in our midfield but as a midfield unit I think we are stronger than what you have as your midfield is really disjointed and sorry I didn't mean it to sound like you claimed that he was better than those! I think he would get rotational minutes for sure but I think United ideally want him to be going to a club that will make it a permanent deal.
He's a very similar player to Mainoo for the youth teams. Of course that was also mixed with appearances where he would be played further forward as United have also been playing him further forward a lot. I don't know why United did that. However, now he's got the reputation of an attacker so is being asked to play as a winger or sometimes in Bruno's role in the few minutes he gets for the first team.
The biggest difference is that Hannibal doesn't go towards the ball when played in attack. In Mainoo's role, he went towards the ball and brought the ball forward from defense. As a winger, he's either making runs forward in hopes the ball will be hoofed over the top for him, or he makes runs where he's asking a United player to pass between the lines, or they use him as a decoy. On top of that he's leading the press.
And then we wonder why he's not showing his technical ability for United's first team. Well it starts with playing him deeper in a Mainoo like role where he can actually ask for the ball and actually receive the ball from defenders.
There might be a reason we haven't seen it but I'd love to see Mainoo and Hannibal in central midfield together as the 2 or a 3 with Casemiro.
I would like to see a fully fit Mason Mount in place of Hannibal and I reckon that midfield could be going places.
My personal opinion is I'm not too bothered ultimately as I haven't ever really rated him and don't think his potential is very high. If we can get a good fee, great, but I definitely see him as a youngster who won't ever be an important player here.
Saying that, he's barely got a sniff and I think we got it wrong with Garner, so we'll see how this goes.
Saying that, he's barely got a sniff and I think we got it wrong with Garner, so we'll see how this goes.
Not really given a chance by ETH.
Another player mis-managed
Another player mis-managed
I don't think we got it that wrong with Garner. I always thought he'd make it in the EPL and could probably do a job for us at the moment when we're really struggling, but I still don't think he'll ever be good enough for where we want to be.
Well, where I want us to be.
I view him as a typical youth player, good technique, no stand out abilities but a passion merchant that think pressing is all about running fast at players and launching tackles whenever possible. Doesn't seem to me like he has the brain to play in midfield, not sure if he's more of an attacker or what.
I was surprised he was still here beginning of the season as I had a feeling Ten Hag doesn't rate him, so no wonder he isn't playing now. That said, even if I don't have any high hopes about the kid, I would've played him more instead of going for McTominay everytime as a default scenario.
I was surprised he was still here beginning of the season as I had a feeling Ten Hag doesn't rate him, so no wonder he isn't playing now. That said, even if I don't have any high hopes about the kid, I would've played him more instead of going for McTominay everytime as a default scenario.
Hard to trust him when it always seem like he's about to be sent off.
Exactly. However, I don't think this is something that can't be changed/ "coached". If anything, I was more impressed with him when he played it "slow" rather than pretended to be Bruno mk2.
Runs around like a donkey, no real qualities. Not good enough just like Chong, our academy needs a massive overhaul, sack the lot that are there at this stage.
A club of this stature needs to be producing better or what is the point of having an academy?
A club of this stature needs to be producing better or what is the point of having an academy?
There's plenty of things to slam ETH with but this isn't one.
We curently have four regular starters from our academy (Garnacho, Mainoo, Rashford and McT) and in our senior squad we have another three in Mejbri, Gore and Kambwala, a "starlet" in Greenwood who fecked it all up, as well as we've sold £50m of academy graduates the last two summer windows (Garner, Henderson, Elanga, Kovar and Pereira). We won the FA Youth Cup in the 21/22-season. Get a grip.
So I can see why you would think this. Especially as he's had only a small amount of chances in the first team and he wasnt great on loan last season in the championship.
However I think the talent and ability is there to potentially be better than any of those players if he can fulfil it or at least the same potential as Onana who will always be a more physical and slightly different player than him. What he has shown so far is mostly big numbers for running so thats what can be expected right now. But he does have the vision for a really nice pass, can beat a man and win a foul quite well and can shoot. The downside is he can also lose his temper fast and will get booked a lot. Maybe sent off. So hes one of those players.
Doucure is also 31 so in the next year or so you'll be looking at planning for the future and he may be available for less matches
Obviously ETH disagrees with me which is why he barely gets a game. But still more of a chance than Garner got despite Garner doing better in the championship on loan. And because ETH has his favourites like McTom and Mainoo is getting games as our young player in midfield being given a chance, the potential that Hannibal has isnt very likely to be reached here. I'd be happy to see a few games with Mainoo and Hannibal as our midfield to give it a chance but but its just not going to happen because ETH prefers the senior and loaned players despite them performing poorly most of the time other than McTom obviously scoring goals.
If he goes to Sevilla with a loan and buy set up it'll be with a view to rotating with Rakitic and replacing him in the future. Sevilla are in the same sort of position as Everton in La Liga
I'm sure there are plenty of Antony YouTube videos that would make you believe he's a star. Also "why Everton wants to sign him" is not exactly a milestone for any "top" or future star. Have you seen the signings they have made in the past 5 to 10 years, 80% have been a waste of space and they are where they are struggling in the league because of it.
I replied to you suggesting he's a donkey. He's a talented footballer whether or not he makes it at United who yes, has shown he can run about a lot for us but also has some real ability on the ball
Garnacho who is very raw, Mainoo who does seem to be a one for the future, if you ask most here about Rashford, a lot would say they want rid or don't think he's the way forward. Do I even need to say anything about McT, none of any you have mentioned are close to World class.
We go back to the team that had Pogba, Lingard and that waste of time Ravel Morrison. How did those fair out in the end? Pogba could be banned for 4 years, Lingard can't find a club, Ravel is probably robbing a granny right now!
And when did United become a selling club? We aren't Chelsea, we don't have an academy to loan and end up selling their youth! We need players coming through so we don't make bad decisions in the market, again, you named players who were sold because they were nowhere near good enough to play for United.
Just because a player did well in the youth leagues does not make them a good candidate to make the step up. Get a grip
My point in terms of United favouring a permanent deal as part of the loan is that it may help Sevilla rather than us is that they may have the money which we aren't capable of parting with. Garner and Onana are way ahead in their development compared to him. Onana is likely to leave at some point and that may open a window for him but then we would need a 6/destroyer type like Onana/Gana to come in. I see him as more of a rotational option for Garner or Doucoure as it can be a like-for-like replacement for Garner and what they can offer when he's out and then something different for when Doucoure isn't available. Again though, I feel like United really want the loan + perm option deal rather than just loan and I imagine we aren't able to do that.
Didn't we pay 7or 8 million for him as a 16 year old?
Yes
EtH and many posters on here are wrong about this guy in my opinion. He should be playing. He has a lot of qualities that we're missing in midfield. He was good against Burnley, Palace and Galatasaray. He should have been allowed to build on that.
What position do you think Hannibal would most likely play for you if he did join Everton? What part of your squad seems to have an opening? Likewise, anybody know what position Sevilla are weakest in that Hannibal would likely take?
Personally, I don't see him as being good enough for us long-term in an attacking position. The hope I've always had is for him to be a Modric style deeper midfielder, but I don't think he's had a single game there for our first team. As such I really want him joining a club that will play him in the deeper position rather than as an attacker.
He'd be a rotational option for either Garner or Doucoure in my opinion. Onana and Garner provides a strong double pivot base for us with Hannibal and Gana as their backup. I suppose one thing that we have identified with Hannibal though is that he is capable of playing in different areas that we need and we have been trying to do with out recruitment recently - making sure we get options in that are able to cover multiple areas.
Yes it's still early days for Garnacho and Mainoo but they are showing great promise and could potentially develop into "world class", Rashford is wildly incosistent but has shown glimpses of being more than capable, and yes McT shouldn't be anything more than a squad player - but can you realistically expect more from the academy in terms of impact on the first team squad at any given time?
No we aren't a selling club per se, but player sales is a part of any football clubs business model and we should/must move towards becoming better sellers if we are to compete for glory while being compliant with FFP, and our academy has 100% had a positive impact on our ability to buy players the previous windows and will also probably have that in the coming windows (just a shame the money has been so misused).
In your original post you commented "..our academy needs a massive overhaul, sack the lot that are there at this stage. A club of this stature needs to be producing better or what is the point of having an academy?" which I believe is quite an overstatement and a bit hyperbolic, especially if one actually considers the positive impact our academy in effect has.
Ten Hag has used youth though. It’s just the fact the kid isn’t good enough. He presses well if your a counter attacking side and you keep it simple and direct.
Ten Hag has shown he doesn’t want us to be that with signings like Mount who is just far better than Hannibal technical speaking on the ball.
He’s just not the right fit for us.
There aren't many big clubs who actually integrate more young players into their first team than us. Garnacho last year, Mainoo this year, Kambwala getting chances and easily could see him be integrated next year. Greenwood a couple years before Garnacho. We get one in almost every year.
He was never good enough for United
Ironically, some think he is still better than McT, and they may be right
Ironically, some think he is still better than McT, and they may be right
Ten Hag has used some youth. He's got rid of other youth
Garner is playing better than most of our central midfielders this season and he sold him in the summer
Also based on how Mount has played so far Hannibal is better technically. Obviously I hope he refinds his form and shows otherwise but his first touch and dribbling have been a mess so far.
Hard to use Mount as an example given his injury problems. He's not been getting games because of Mctominay, and I would argue we would have got more value with the kid playing.
You produced valid points, but compared to clubs across Europe, our academy feels it is lacking and in my eyes, from the scouting getting young players and the team scouting talent for the first team, both are atrocious and it needs a shake up.
For example, it is criminal that someone like Martinelli wasn't given more than 4 trials at the club, but is one of the main guys in one of the strongest Arsenal teams in a decade. How did he slip through their fingers? Got to question how someone like Chong showed more than him....
Rashford, he goes missing for 18months and then shows up for 6 to 8 months, rinse and repeats.
I'd much rather we had an academy that could fill in gaps that we have right now rather than splashing huge amounts in the market. We apparently have no striker coming through ready to come in, so we splashed huge amounts on an unproven striker from the Serie A. Neither McT or Hannibal are good enough to fill in at midfield and we are hoping Mainoo can lift the heavy load at the moment.
Injury crisis in the LB, had to loan a player in from Spurs, our best LB to come in the past 10 years is Brandon Williams who is not good enough for a team out side of the bottom 3.
No CBs have come through other than Willy, we have rarely seen him and I pray he turns good. There are areas all over the pitch that need improving, but none of the players in the academy are even worth the chance apparently, this isn't a manager problem either because it's been going on for years now.
Barcelona have been sourcing players for nearly 2 decades, although Messi is one in a lifetime type player, there isn't any excuses as to why they are consistently bringing in players from La Masia to fill in.
Hello friends, I am a fan of Sevilla FC and the transfer of Annibal is being discussed...the truth is that after the Martial fiasco I am not at all convinced about bringing a United player simply because both entities are going through a bad process of lowering our level and now I have been a United fan from afar for more than 15 years. I was wondering if you think if this boy has a future and is useful? Greetings and I hope ETH comes out soon because I don't see united improving.
We should sell him with a buy back. That is the smart thing to do with all the FFP challenges. I dont remember how much we bought him for at the academy level (I do remember that there was a decent fee paid for him tbh), but I'm sure we could get a decent profit out of it that would help us a ton with our FFP. Have a reasonably buy back option and let him gain experience somewhere else.
I think that Hannibal career with United and not just his paid the price of bad results in last few years. He is very good player, and certainly can be at least squad player in years to come. His physicality is good, his attitude is good and he has skill. Basically, his only problem is experience and temperament that he improved a lot in the last 18 months. Unfortunately he could not get playing time when we are in the crisis all the time, and even when we win we are winning with one goal margin. Ten Hag is struggling and in that situation he can not risk playing him, although he is not doing better with playing other players in his position. Comparing with other players we had in Academy recently, in terms of talent and readiness for senior football, Hannibal is above players like Pereira for example, or Gomes, and they both made solid career so far. I would be surprised if he does not make top career, playing regularly in the CL team.
He needs to move away. the current trajectory so far in manutd will ruin his career.
Martial was going through a two year period of extremely bad form mostly due to struggling with injury. He's improved a little in the following 18 months when he's actually been able to play, but the fitness issues have basically ended his career at the top level even though he's only just turned 28. It's not really something you can compare with someone else just because they come from the same club.
Hannibal had a lot of potential a couple of years ago. Unfortunately in the last 18 months I think he's been mismanaged, with both the loan to Birmingham and then we ourselves using him in ways that really only utilise his physical attributes rather than building on his technical skills. It means we still don't know whether he can translate that ability he showed in the youth teams to the PL (or La Liga) level, or if he's going to be one of the players who look good at youth level but struggles with the step up. Personally I see him at his best in the central midfield, getting on the ball as much as he can and helping control the team around. If he can take that step up with the basics in that position, then his stamina, dribbling and running power are great bonuses that could potentially take him a long way. But we won't know until he gets given a chance, so it might work or it might not. Hard to say. Of course, perhaps the reason we don't use him that way is because ETH sees him in training and doesn't think he's good enough.
Do you think Sevilla would use him more in that role, or more like how we've used him this season? More of an attacking role where we use his stamina to cover huge amounts of ground and run everywhere, being the one trying to be on the end of others creativity rather than getting on the ball a lot himself.
This will break @Adnan
This is exactly it right here. I've been on the Caf a very long time and if there's one thing I've noticed here, it's that every young player on the fringes of the first team is hyped as the next big thing and a nailed-on starter for the next 10 years.
The reality is, there is a gargantuan gulf between youth and first-team football, and most of them will never be good enough for us (even in our relatively shit state).
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