[Bertie Wooster]

Yeah, I definitely want us to give Hannibal an opportunity long term as I love watching him play and really think he has a lot about him and could establish himself with us if given a genuine chance.

If ETH feels it's a year early and would rather him have, say, a PL loan first, then fair enough. So long as it's with the long term aim of giving him a fair chance to establish himself with us. But, personally, with us needing other priority positions - and some CM's like Fred and VDB being options to sell to generate money - then I can definitely see the thinking behind selling those and giving some more minutes to the likes of Hannibal and Mainoo.

It's a tricky one though, as giving them their (one?) chance too soon means they might not take it and might not get another one. So I've no issue with them only getting their opportunity when it's deemed their ready for it - so long as they definitely do get a genuine chance at some point to try and establish themselves with us as I really do feel Hannibal, and Mainoo, have that mix of technical, physical and mental attributes to possibly make it here.

 

[humdinger]

As much as they need to be moved on, replacing them with Hannibal is a mistake.

I do think Hannibal would benefit from another loan with lots of playing time, but it seems another midfielder isn’t very high up our priority list. Just lukewarm murmurs of Amrabat. Perhaps if there is serious interest in McFred we might see more links. Otherwise he could potentially take their limited minutes next season.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Hannibal looks like he has enough physical and technical traits to cut it. I liked what I saw yesterday.

Yeah, what he showed yesterday is how he regularly performed in the youth teams. I loved watching him in those as he really has a great mix of physical and technical attributes to potentially become a very good box to box #8.

It was great to see him show that quality yesterday. Hopefully he can keep that up during pre-season - though it might be harder for him when all the key midfielders return to the team.

 

[Van Piorsing]

I don't think I have the mental capacity to watch another year of McTominay and Fred, every time someone gets injured or suspended. New football will require new energy, and the lad can play multiple roles.

Betting on Mejbri still feels still more reasonable than counting on Arnold & Murtough rebuilding the midfield in it's entirety.

 

[Strelok]

Yeah, I definitely want us to give Hannibal an opportunity long term as I love watching him play and really think he has a lot about him and could establish himself with us if given a genuine chance.

If ETH feels it's a year early and would rather him have, say, a PL loan first, then fair enough. So long as it's with the long term aim of giving him a fair chance to establish himself with us. But, personally, with us needing other priority positions - and some CM's like Fred and VDB being options to sell to generate money - then I can definitely see the thinking behind selling those and giving some more minutes to the likes of Hannibal and Mainoo.

It's a tricky one though, as giving them their (one?) chance too soon means they might not take it and might not get another one. So I've no issue with them only getting their opportunity when it's deemed their ready for it - so long as they definitely do get a genuine chance at some point to try and establish themselves with us as I really do feel Hannibal, and Mainoo, have that mix of technical, physical and mental attributes to possibly make it here.

I'm not sure about Mainoo yet but atm imo of our youngsters only Hannibal might have the chance to make it here. He might be a very good midfielder one day but he gotta play regularly so a loan makes more sense imo. We just signed Mount.

 

[Big Andy]

Mainoo looks to be the one that Erik has hung his hat on. He gave him minutes at the end of last season too, which he won't do out of sentiment alone. I think all of Mainoo, Amad and Hannibal will be able to be squad players this season. They all looked pretty sharp, and the loans for Hannibal and Amad seem to have helped them.

 

[Ali Dia]

Fred is currently miles better than Hannibal. You’d clearly see it if they were playing against each other. Fred would destroy him and probably get him sent off. I like Hannibal, he talented but he’s miles off it here and he’s not going to improve enough as a bit part player to make it here this season. Another loan beckons.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Fred is currently miles better than Hannibal. You’d clearly see it if they were playing against each other. Fred would destroy him and probably get him sent off. I like Hannibal, he talented but he’s miles off it here and he’s not going to improve enough as a bit part player to make it here this season. Another loan beckons.

Fred and the new football system... heh.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Fred is currently miles better than Hannibal. You’d clearly see it if they were playing against each other. Fred would destroy him and probably get him sent off. I like Hannibal, he talented but he’s miles off it here and he’s not going to improve enough as a bit part player to make it here this season. Another loan beckons.

I think most fans are incapable of conceptualizing the enormous chasm that exists in footballing levels between Championship / U23 / preseason football and top four PL football. I'm no fan of Fred, but the idea of Hannibal stepping up to replace him this season is absurd.

 

[Van Piorsing]

I think most fans are incapable of conceptualizing the enormous chasm that exists in footballing levels between Championship / U23 / preseason football and top four PL football. I'm no fan of Fred, but the idea of Hannibal stepping up to replace him this season is absurd.

Then have fun another season with the same footballers, just don't expect different results.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Then have fun another season with the same footballers, just don't expect different results.

I desperately want Fred gone just as much as the next guy. But I'm not expecting anything different results-wise until the Glazers leave and more ambitious owners come in.

 

[Highfather_24]

I think most fans are incapable of conceptualizing the enormous chasm that exists in footballing levels between Championship / U23 / preseason football and top four PL football. I'm no fan of Fred, but the idea of Hannibal stepping up to replace him this season is absurd.

Garnacho made the jump, so did MG11 without any loans. They just came into the team. Sometimes you need a leap of faith, sometimes they are not good enough. I'm still not convinced if he is productive enough to be our #8, but I want to see him getting a chance rather than Fred/McT.

 

[Van Piorsing]

I desperately want Fred gone just as much as the next guy. But I'm not expecting anything different results-wise until the Glazers leave and more ambitious owners come in.

With owner or without ultra rich owner, how do we expect build anything new and remotely exciting with denying young players of their chances. If we see bigger risk in giving chance to Hannibal, than another daily episode of McFred, then let's not call it a rebuild anymore.

Fred's game is mainly based on mobility, sooner or later he will need a new solution, just like Casemiro & Eriksen.

Glazers still a huge issue, can't deny that, but this is when you start looking elsewhere for players. Every summer, the club spends close to 150m and squad still somehow resembles a Swiss cheese.

 

[Strelok]

Garnacho made the jump, so did MG11 without any loans. They just came into the team. Sometimes you need a leap of faith, sometimes they are not good enough. I'm still not convinced if he is productive enough to be our #8, but I want to see him getting a chance rather than Fred/McT.

Fast strikers in general and especially wingers usually are ready much sooner than midfielders. Because forwards need basically pace and instinct but midfielders need a lot of things to be able to perform at the top level. Especially strength and brain. That's why you'd rarely see any good midfielder younger than 22-23 yo.

And I think we should trust ETH on this. If he feels the lad is ready for the step he'll keep him I think. Then we just bought Mount so imo it's actually better for him to go on loan. At the current stage of his career he must play regularly to keep progressing. Keeping him here for an odd game here and there won't do him any good imo.

 

[criticalanalysis]

As are we all. I think you’re right about Casemiro - Mount - Bruno being Ten Hag’s first thought here, as 6-8-10/8 in a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 ish base formation (yesterday we defended as 4-4-2, started attacks as 3-3-3-1 and played established attacks as 3-4-3, more or less, so what’s the point of these numbers?). The way he used Bruno last season, I won’t be surprised if he will often play Case - Eriksen - Mount with Bruno at right forward. If Dalot and Wan Bissaka develops further going on the outside, that may well be.

I’m curious as to how you see Case - Mount - Bruno as limited though. Hard to predict, but on paper it seems to have the potential of improving on last seasons Case - Eriksen/Fred - Bruno combo IMO.

I’m the most worried about load management of Casemiro, based on the fact that there is no replacement close to his level when it comes to a lone 6 role, and none of the current pivote alternatives seem well balanced either. Mainoo might be needed well before he is ready unless we bring someone in.

If all players are fit, I don't see ETH dropping Antony on the right wing to accommodate another midfielder. He may drop Sancho if he continues his poor form but that's another discussion. The way I see it, is that Mount will be replacing Eriksen and for the majority of games (performance issues permitting) it will be Case, Mount and Bruno. It wouldn't make sense to bring in a midfielder only to drop 80m players in Antony/Sancho and it would be a pretty radical change of tactics i.e Bruno on the right was only against limited opposition/injuries.

As for the that trio, I'm not worried for them against the majority of teams, it's the other more resilient tougher midfields. It doesn't scream enough composure and physicality. I don't doubt the effort but I'm worried about it being a bit too ping pong in the middle; not enough nous with more chase the ball first rather than managing the game before it gets to that stage. In counter pressing situations, I think it's very good but with the way we want to be playing, that's not our main goal, where we want to be controlling, dominating and suffocating teams on the ball.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

I think most fans are incapable of conceptualizing the enormous chasm that exists in footballing levels between Championship / U23 / preseason football and top four PL football. I'm no fan of Fred, but the idea of Hannibal stepping up to replace him this season is absurd.

Some fans, yeah, they probably overrate way too many of the youngsters. But others just rate a certain player to be one of those few top academy players who could - emphasis on could - make it at a top 4 club.

I don't think anyone's saying Hannibal can or should become a regular or key player this season. We've got Fernandes, Mount, Eriksen, Casemiro, and maybe a Casemiro understudy for those starting positions. And maybe even one of McFred if they don't both leave.

It's just the debate as to whether Hannibal (and Amad for the wide right) stay at the club this season and get some minutes (but how many?) as squad players to show whether they've got enough about them, or whether they'd benefit from another loan at probably a higher level than previous.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Garnacho made the jump, so did MG11 without any loans. They just came into the team. Sometimes you need a leap of faith, sometimes they are not good enough. I'm still not convinced if he is productive enough to be our #8, but I want to see him getting a chance rather than Fred/McT.

I agree and I've made the case before that sending players on repeated loans is often counterproductive to their development. I'm just saying people need to be realistic about expectations - if he can make the leap into the first team, wonderful. But that should be viewed as a bonus rather than the base expectation going into the season.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

With owner or without ultra rich owner, how do we expect build anything new and remotely exciting with denying young players of their chances. If we see bigger risk in giving chance to Hannibal, than another daily episode of McFred, then let's not call it a rebuild anymore.

Fred's game is mainly based on mobility, sooner or later he will need a new solution, just like Casemiro & Eriksen.

Glazers still a huge issue, can't deny that, but this is when you start looking elsewhere for players. Every summer, the club spends close to 150m and squad still somehow resembles a Swiss cheese.

Who's being denied their chances? If ETH thinks he's good enough, he'll get his chance. All I'm saying is that fans need to keep their expectations grounded.

 

[humdinger]

Fred is currently miles better than Hannibal. You’d clearly see it if they were playing against each other. Fred would destroy him and probably get him sent off. I like Hannibal, he talented but he’s miles off it here and he’s not going to improve enough as a bit part player to make it here this season. Another loan beckons.

I agree totally, but I don’t expect Fred or McT to play much at all next season, especially now Mount is here. They’re like 5th and 6th choice? Manager clearly doesn’t rate them. So why not give those limited squad and cup appearances to a youngster who might deliver on his talent. Especially as Fred is nearing the end of his contract.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Mainoo looks to be the one that Erik has hung his hat on. He gave him minutes at the end of last season too, which he won't do out of sentiment alone. I think all of Mainoo, Amad and Hannibal will be able to be squad players this season. They all looked pretty sharp, and the loans for Hannibal and Amad seem to have helped them.

Mainoo definitely the one to watch. I have very high hopes on him.

 

[Davie Moyes]

I think most fans are incapable of conceptualizing the enormous chasm that exists in footballing levels between Championship / U23 / preseason football and top four PL football. I'm no fan of Fred, but the idea of Hannibal stepping up to replace him this season is absurd.

I'm not so sure about that. To begin with that may be the case but if you give talented youth a chance they may just flourish and by end of the season overtake the likes of Fred.

 

[Velvet Revolver]

Garnacho made the jump, so did MG11 without any loans. They just came into the team. Sometimes you need a leap of faith, sometimes they are not good enough. I'm still not convinced if he is productive enough to be our #8, but I want to see him getting a chance rather than Fred/McT.

Rashford too

 

[Van Piorsing]

Who's being denied their chances? If ETH thinks he's good enough, he'll get his chance. All I'm saying is that fans need to keep their expectations grounded.

Yes, every season, keep your expectation grounded. How about keep your expectations grounded for multi million players we signed and they play like absolute tards, against mid table teams.

 

[Trex]

Who's being denied their chances? If ETH thinks he's good enough, he'll get his chance. All I'm saying is that fans need to keep their expectations grounded.

Some of our best players during SAF reign and post SAF have come from the youth system. See the money we paid for Sancho and Antony yet Rashford, Greenwood, and Garnacho look better footballers. Its a united thing to want to see them come through especially those who were brilliant in the youth level. I don't like the idea of playing youth not up to standard but I'll never not be excited about a youth player potentially come through.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Yes, every season, keep your expectation grounded. How about keep your expectations grounded for multi million players we signed and they play like absolute tards, against mid table teams.

That's a scouting, recruitment, and football operations issue, not a 'young players denied their chance' issue.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Some of our best players during SAF reign and post SAF have come from the youth system. See the money we paid for Sancho and Antony yet Rashford, Greenwood, and Garnacho look better footballers. Its a united thing to want to see them come through especially those who were brilliant in the youth level. I don't like the idea of playing youth not up to standard but I'll never not be excited about a youth player potentially come through.

That doesn't contradict my points though. I have no doubt the people up in arms about Hannibal not getting first team chances are the same ones who a year ago were claiming that Garner and Laird were ready for our first team.

 

[Based Adnan]

Last season Fred only started getting serious minutes when Eriksen was injured and started getting less again when he returned. This season not only is that going to be the case but we've also added Mount into the equation. Any minutes Fred is going to get this season are going to be extremely limited unless we get at least 2 injuries. This is probably why he's happy to move on.

If we're going with a system that plays with 2 advanced 8s I think having 4 players for the 2 positions is where you want to be. If we move on Fred we'll only have 3 (assuming VDB also leaves). I see no reason why Hannibal can't take up that 4th spot. We won't be relying on him and if he fails to step up it won't impact our season too much.

 

[Van Piorsing]

That's a scouting, recruitment, and football operations issue, not a 'young players denied their chance' issue.

Agreed. The scouting, recruitment and football operations could be an issue. Cluttering the squad with stagnating players for years, so no one can get in is also an issue, for younger players also.

Meanwhile Klopp manages to introduce Curtis Jones and Harvey Elliot to their midfield, give them close to 30 Premier League appearances each, and add two new midfielders on top of that. Not an issue there. 4 new faces in midfield with perspective of another signing could be on the cards.

I'm so over McFred, it's not a debate for me. Keeping them in a long run is masochism. Mainoo and Hanniball, or any young player, who's better than them should be given games, at least in the cups and new signings shouldn't even remotely collide with that.

It's what our opponents also do, building squads not only from huge multi million transfer deals.

 

[Trex]

Last season Fred only started getting serious minutes when Eriksen was injured and started getting less again when he returned. This season not only is that going to be the case but we've also added Mount into the equation. Any minutes Fred is going to get this season are going to be extremely limited unless we get at least 2 injuries. This is probably why he's happy to move on.

If we're going with a system that plays with 2 advanced 8s I think having 4 players for the 2 positions is where you want to be. If we move on Fred we'll only have 3 (assuming VDB also leaves). I see no reason why Hannibal can't take up that 4th spot. We won't be relying on him and if he fails to step up it won't impact our season too much.

Fred is already surplus to requirement (it's between Mount and Eriksen for that role now). It's the Casemiro and Bruno back up roles that are subject to debate. Would you rather Mainoo and Hannibal or Mctominay and VDB?

 

[Based Adnan]

Fred is already surplus to requirement (it's between Mount and Eriksen for that role now). It's the Casemiro and Bruno back up roles that are subject to debate. Would you rather Mainoo and Hannibal or Mctominay and VDB?

I think we'll play with a DM and two advanced 8s so our options for those two positions would be Bruno, Mount and Eriksen. I don't see why we'd buy Mount just to park him alongside Casemiro when he's best further forward and obviously Bruno has to play as well.

For me I'd keep Hannibal as the 4th choice behind the above 3 for the 8 position, Mainoo as 3rd choice Casemiro backup and then sign a number 2 back up for Casemiro (Amrabat for example). I think this way you limited yourself in terms of relying on Mainoo and Hannibal but there's also options for them to get gametime as well.

 

[Trex]

I think we'll play with a DM and two advanced 8s so our options for those two positions would be Bruno, Mount and Eriksen. I don't see why we'd buy Mount just to park him alongside Casemiro when he's best further forward and obviously Bruno has to play as well.

For me I'd keep Hannibal as the 4th choice behind the above 3 for the 8 position, Mainoo as 3rd choice Casemiro backup and then sign a number 2 back up for Casemiro (Amrabat for example). I think this way you limited yourself in terms of relying on Mainoo and Hannibal but there's also options for them to get gametime as well.

I don't think we're saying different things only that you want Amrabat as well which I'm not against to be fair.

 

[Trequarista10]

Fred is a good option to have for specific games/times in games because he does have a fairly unique skill set. The problem is if we're forced to play him in a game where he's not suited (because often throughout the season you will have 2 sometimes 3 midfielders injured/suspended/carrying a knock). He's basically a useful wildcard 5th/6th choice.

I realise this is the Mejbri thread, so here is a sentence about Mejbri.

 

[Trex]

Fred is a good option to have for specific games/times in games because he does have a fairly unique skill set. The problem is if we're forced to play him in a game where he's not suited (because often throughout the season you will have 2 sometimes 3 midfielders injured/suspended/carrying a knock). He's basically a useful wildcard 5th/6th choice.

I realise this is the Mejbri thread, so here is a sentence about Mejbri.

The thing is what Fred brings is industry something Mount does and more. If you're talking about scenarios like the Fa cup final were we are sat in our own half, we're trying to move away from that with signings like Mount who is a specialist at the art of pressing high and Onana who aids the build up play significantly.

 

[Bondi77]

We have to give this lad a chance to make it at Utd otherwise we are just going to get ripped off by other clubs wanting huge amounts for average to good players.
He has all the attributes to make it at the club if he has a good head and attitude which it seems like he does.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Fred is a good option to have for specific games/times in games because he does have a fairly unique skill set. The problem is if we're forced to play him in a game where he's not suited (because often throughout the season you will have 2 sometimes 3 midfielders injured/suspended/carrying a knock). He's basically a useful wildcard 5th/6th choice.

I realise this is the Mejbri thread, so here is a sentence about Mejbri.

After 5 years of Fred in United, I don't think the club knew how to use him to fullest extent, and that's from the start. First season, barely playing after club throwing 50m on him. Now he's hitting his 30s, and sooner or later we'll need a replacement on top of other replacements for Casemiro & Eriksen.

At some point we'll have to manage this and postponing the problem for couple years more will be typical of United to do, while our striker department consists of Joe Hugill and that's pretty much it, the problems will just pile up, one on another.

 

[Trex]

We have to give this lad a chance to make it at Utd otherwise we are just going to get ripped off by other clubs wanting huge amounts for average to good players.
He has all the attributes to make it at the club if he has a good head and attitude which it seems like he does.

We paid big money to bring him in. And I think Murtough was involved in that. You can't be doing that and not giving the player a shot.

 

[OrcaFat]

Fred is currently miles better than Hannibal. You’d clearly see it if they were playing against each other. Fred would destroy him and probably get him sent off. I like Hannibal, he talented but he’s miles off it here and he’s not going to improve enough as a bit part player to make it here this season. Another loan beckons.

At his best Fred can be decent but I think you’re exaggerating the gap between him and Hannibal (a little bit). Hannibal is, of course, lacking Fred’s experience but in terms of raw attributes I prefer Hannibal.

He probably will be loaned but I would be quite happy to keep him and I’d play him in the cups, I’d give him minutes wherever I could. The gap to Fred will disappear fast imo. His profile is far more suited to rotate with Mount and Bruno than Fred or McT. It might be risky but I’d ship McFred out asap and let this boy step up.

 

[Highfather_24]

Yep, basically he will be taking up VdB's squad position. And I'd rather have him given a chance, than him. Cant be a lot worse, surely.

 

[Bondi77]

We paid big money to bring him in. And I think Murtough was involved in that. You can't be doing that and not giving the player a shot.

I think so...the way football is going now 50mil doesn't seem to go to far and we got this lad in because he has big potential so it is down to us to relate that to first team football.

 

[Blood Mage]

Not confident he'll make it here. I love his aggression and energy but he's a bit too brainless. He's being praised for stuff that McTominay and Fred bring to the table.