Pocho
Full Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2006
- Messages
- 1,820
He can´t do elasticos, he´s shite.You have no clue about football then
Messi, Maradona and Ortega, the best dribblers from Argentina.
He can´t do elasticos, he´s shite.You have no clue about football then
Robben was such a fantastic player. What was so memorising was the simplicity of his play. Mastered the craft of cutting in. Opponents could never get a foot in because his change of pace, it always created him the space to shoot.
It has to some degree become a lost art, many players lack a change of pace not due to being slow / not being explosive but perhaps not practicing the dynamics of different speeds in directional changes. A player who could benefit from this would be Sancho, not particularly fast but he could offset that weakness with a change of pace.
On the "carried out on a stretcher" point - that's precisely the sort of thing which doesn't make any sense when comparing players from different eras.
It's the exact same flaw people are guilty of when they point out the - obvious - fact that the general pace in a game of professional football is much higher today than it was during Whoever's peak (fifty, thirty or even fifteen years ago).
There's no obvious reason why Messi - given his core qualities - wouldn't have adapted to the football world of the 1980s. He isn't particularly injury prone, for one thing. Sure, defenders would've kicked the shit out of him - just like they did with Maradona - but why wouldn't he have handled that (on the whole), just like Maradona did?
The fact that attackers are - clearly - much more protected these days has no bearing on the hypothetical scenario in which Messi is born around 1960 and has to play against the likes of Claudio Gentile.
The "mentality" argument is actually more convincing if you want to downplay Messi (compared to Maradona): the fact that he hasn't actually genuinely stepped up to take charge and shine in an environment where he is not surrounded by an undoubted top, top selection of team mates, etc.
He can´t do elasticos, he´s shite.
Messi, Maradona and Ortega, the best dribblers from Argentina.
For Argentina? Especially in the most recent tournament?
Number of international teammates nominated for the Ballon D'Or Dream Teams-
Pele: 8
Ronaldo: 5
Maradona: 2
Cristiano Ronaldo: 1
Messi: 0
would’ve loved to see him in a United shirt, he was a little chaotic thoughOrtega is a great shout. He was class..
It would've been interesting to see how United would've lined up with Ortega in the team had the board backed Fergie in going ahead to sign him (albeit on loan for a year with an option to buy from Valencia) in 1997 - 1998.
Not getting dragged into that nonsense.
It doesn't belong in this thread anyway.
Wasn't Ribery like the third most successful dribbler since the stats were started to count.
Here is a statistics until 2019 November by Opta.
1. Lionel Messi - 1,880 take-ons completed (57.2%)
2. Eden Hazard - 1,220 take-ons completed (57.1%)
3. Franck Ribery - 939 take-ons completed (47.9%)
4. Sergio Aguero - 832 take-ons completed (46.6%)
5. Cristiano Ronaldo - 816 take-ons completed (44%)
6. Joaquin - 798 take-ons completed (50.9%)
7. Hatem Ben Arfa - 770 take-ons completed (50.6%)
8. Andres Iniesta - 739 take-ons completed (60.9%)
9. Roberto Firmino - 736 take-ons completed (56.8%)
10. Neymar - 734 take-ons completed (50.2%)
Masopust, Tigana, Falcão… not many truly elite ones, they usually end up further up the pitch like Iniesta or Zidane.Why only attackers as dribblers?
There must have been the Frenkie De Jong type of midfield dribbler before right?
Why only attackers as dribblers?
There must have been the Frenkie De Jong type of midfield dribbler before right?
Yeah pretty much those listed were great obviously but I guess the reason most end up higher on the pitch is with the way players are developed so if you're good at dribbling the coach is more likely to play you higher up on the pitch.Masopust, Tigana, Falcão… not many truly elite ones, they usually end up further up the pitch like Iniesta or Zidane.
Fascinating stuff, thanks! I'd like to know what stands as a successful dribble if Firmino is in there, but it's a really interesting list.
Zanetti's defensive dribbles were quite great and Marcelo is mint too.Masopust, Tigana, Falcão… not many truly elite ones, they usually end up further up the pitch like Iniesta or Zidane.
Wouldn’t put Zanetti as an all-time great dribbler but Marcelo is a great shout. Maybe Leo Junior too. Beckenbauer obviously could do everything with the ball even though he preferred one-twos to dribbling runs.Zanetti's defensive dribbles were quite great and Marcelo is mint too.
True, Robben was indeed great, despite being so "obvious".What was incredible about Robben was the fact that he would always do the same thing over and over again, cutting in to his left foot and no one could stop him. That's how fast he was.
Nope. He's incredibly overrated. Put him on the fields Pele, Best and Maradona played on against butchers and he would barely get past 1 opponent.Messi is just clear as the best player in every category. I’m slightly disappointed he’s had an obvious decline as it means so many forget about, or are even too young to remember, his prime. Best dribbler of all time, obviously.
Actually, there is. First of all, he ain't that big or strong. Second of all, he's a system player and can't adapt outside Barcelona, as it was proved this season with PSG.There's no obvious reason why Messi - given his core qualities - wouldn't have adapted to the football world of the 1980s.
That's cause he plays in this era where he's protected by the refs and cause he played in the soft Spanish league for almost all his career.He isn't particularly injury prone, for one thing.
I don't think he would.Sure, defenders would've kicked the shit out of him - just like they did with Maradona - but why wouldn't he have handled that (on the whole), just like Maradona did?
Why not ?!? It would make dribbling way harder.The fact that attackers are - clearly - much more protected these days has no bearing on the hypothetical scenario in which Messi is born around 1960 and has to play against the likes of Claudio Gentile.
I agree with you on this.The "mentality" argument is actually more convincing if you want to downplay Messi (compared to Maradona): the fact that he hasn't actually genuinely stepped up to take charge and shine in an environment where he is not surrounded by an undoubted top, top selection of team mates, etc.
Actually, there is. First of all, he ain't that big or strong. Second of all, he's a system player and can't adapt outside Barcelona, as it was proved this season with PSG.
That's cause he plays in this era where he's protected by the refs and cause he played in the soft Spanish league for almost all his career.
I don't think he would.
Why not ?!? It would make dribbling way harder.
I agree with you on this.