Greatest British Sportsman/woman

Bojan11 said:
He has a strong case.

Beat Federer and Nadal at their favourite slams.

Better head to head against Fed and Nadal

Most master series titles. Believe it or not tennis doesn’t revolve just around Slams.

6th years ended as world number 1 which is a record tied to Sampras.

Will surpass Federer for most amount of weeks at number 1 ranking.

He has had to deal with Nadal and Murray in their prime as well as Federer. Federers most slams came before 2010 where Djokovic and Murray were still learning and it was only Nadal challenging him on other surfaces from 2007. Before that his challengers were Hewitt, Roddick and Gonzalez.

All three have good cases. So saying Djokovic doesn’t have a leg to stand on is ludicrous.

@Kevin and @wr8_utd what you think?
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I'm not saying it's an outrageous claim to put him there. I'm just saying the general consensus is Federer is the GOAT. As much as you say he's had to deal with Nadal and Murray, it should also be noted that both of them have had serious injury issues in their career.

The fact you can even make a case for any one of Djokovic, Federer or Nadal being the GOAT of the sport just highlights how ludicrous the argument is that Murray could never be the greatest British sportsman because he was never the best in his sport. To have won multiple slams, multiple golds, an ATP finals and been world number 1 in the era of those 3 is absolutely incredible.

harms said:
I may be wrong, but those cases usually happen in teams other than Mercedes and Ferrari, no? Those, who have to prioritise funding over podiums (not that Ferrari had won much lately). Alonso is a good example against my point, but he still ended up at Ferrari eventually, didn't he?
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Usually yes but I'd still argue against the claim that Mercedes and Ferrari pick the best drivers. Mercedes are clearly the best team yet Bottas isn't clearly the 2nd best driver on the grid, for example.
 
Reading this read made me think that I would have thought there were way more great British sportsmen. ;)

If I asked around here, the consensus would probably be Hamilton.
 
Pink Moon said:
Your logic is flawed. You don't need to be in the top 5 in your sport to be the best athlete from your own country. You trying to tell me George Best isn't the GOAT athlete from Northern Ireland?
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You do if you're contending with others who have GOAT status in their respective sports or are considered in the debate. For a massive sporting country like the UK, it's the bare minimum. Even though he was #1 for a very brief spell, Murray hasn't actually been the best player on the planet for an entire season, let alone a longer period of time, during his whole active career. You living in Glasgow might skew your view but there's no way people on the continent would put Murray at #1 and probably not even top 3 or top 5 either.

The only way that Best is NI most famous sportsman is because there's a lack of others (and McIlroy might be considered too, probably others too that I don't know of). That's only applicable for smaller countries or countries with a lack of great sportsmen (e.g. I'd imagine Aubameyang is Gabon's choice even though he's not even top 50 or so all-time).
 
Eendracht maakt macht said:
That is true. For me it’s O’ Sullivan as I’m a snooker fan but in general it’s hard to compare snooker to athletics to tennis to autosport of course. O’ Sullivan is the most mesmerizing for me.
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Yeah if you count snooker as a sport(Which I do)then it has to be Ronnie.
 
Pink Moon said:
Usually yes but I'd still argue against the claim that Mercedes and Ferrari pick the best drivers. Mercedes are clearly the best team yet Bottas isn't clearly the 2nd best driver on the grid, for example.
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The 2nd driver is different as usually (unless there's a situation like Leclerc/Vettel where it's not clear who is the real number 1 now) his role is a supporting one – and having a strong competitor next to your number one can be a negative factor for the number one's performance. Vettel & Leclerc had collided recently, Riccardo fecking up Verstappen because he needed to prove himself for a new contract...

Anyway, I probably know less about F1 than you as I'm not a truly involved fan.
 
Pink Moon said:
Your logic is flawed. You don't need to be in the top 5 in your sport to be the best athlete from your own country. You trying to tell me George Best isn't the GOAT athlete from Northern Ireland?
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You don`t thats true. But when you`re up in comparison with others who are (e.g. Hamilton, O`Sullivan, Froome) your claim to being the GOAT is not great. If Northern Ireland had a multiple world championship winning, world record holding marathon runner I would put him above Best.
 
Kasper said:
Don`t you have some all time greats in one of those sports only the British empire countries bother? Cricket, rugby or snooker?
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Cricket has one unambiguous GOAT (~50% ahead of everyone else based on stats) and he's Australian. Even the tier below him has very few Britishers.
 
Kasper said:
You don`t thats true. But when you`re up in comparison with others who are (e.g. Hamilton, O`Sullivan, Froome) your claim to being the GOAT is not great. If Northern Ireland had a multiple world championship winning, world record holding marathon runner I would put him above Best.
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Carl Fogerty is another who deserves mentioning and is ahead of Murray.

edit: in motorbike racing there's also Michael Haliwood and Jonathan Rea.
 
RobinLFC said:
You do if you're contending with others who have GOAT status in their respective sports or are considered in the debate. For a massive sporting country like the UK, it's the bare minimum. Even though he was #1 for a very brief spell, Murray hasn't actually been the best player on the planet for an entire season, let alone a longer period of time, during his whole active career. You living in Glasgow might skew your view but there's no way people on the continent would put Murray at #1 and probably not even top 3 or top 5 either.

The only way that Best is NI most famous sportsman is because there's a lack of others (and McIlroy might be considered too, probably others too that I don't know of). That's only applicable for smaller countries or countries with a lack of great sportsmen (e.g. I'd imagine Aubameyang is Gabon's choice even though he's not even top 50 or so all-time).
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You really don't.

Phil Taylor is the indisputable GOAT in darts. In fact, I'd be surprised if there's ever been a British sportsperson as dominant in their field as he was. It doesn't mean he's above someone like Murray on a list like this.

All sports are different and there's far too many variables at play for it to be as simplistic as that.
 
So you all don't have any issue with Lewis representing Canada at the amateur level?
 
Pink Moon said:
That's a bit unfair. You need to apply context and factor in that Murray is playing in an era of tennis in which the 3 greatest male players of all time are all playing at the same time. That is such a rare phenomenon and I don't know if there's any other sport where you could make a claim like that? So when you factor that in I think his career has been remarkable.

I'm not a huge cricket fan but I think the widely accepted GOAT cricketer is Australian and I know next to nothing about rugby but I'd be surprised if the GOAT there wasn't from NZ or Aus too. Like I said before, snooker and darts are the two that come to mind right away when you're looking for an undisputed GOAT that is British but they're as much pub games as they are legitimate sports, IMO.



Djokovic could never be the GOAT Serbian athlete under this criteria.
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He’s not it’s Vidic
 
Bojan11 said:
He has a strong case.

Beat Federer and Nadal at their favourite slams.

Better head to head against Fed and Nadal

Most master series titles. Believe it or not tennis doesn’t revolve just around Slams.

6th years ended as world number 1 which is a record tied to Sampras.

Will surpass Federer for most amount of weeks at number 1 ranking.

He has had to deal with Nadal and Murray in their prime as well as Federer. Federers most slams came before 2010 where Djokovic and Murray were still learning and it was only Nadal challenging him on other surfaces from 2007. Before that his challengers were Hewitt, Roddick and Gonzalez.

All three have good cases. So saying Djokovic doesn’t have a leg to stand on is ludicrous.

@Kevin and @wr8_utd what you think?
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Despite being a Rafa fan, I've always felt that Djokovic will end up GOAT and nothing that I'm watching makes me change my mind. He's got way too many achievements, that superior H2H, the Double Masters, will beat Federer at the #1 weeks and will probably win RG some day again and be the first to a Double Career Grand Slam. He doesn't need to top the Slam count to be GOAT imo. Also, he's never had to face a field with the likes of Roddick and Hewitt as his main challengers. Since the very start, he's had to deal with Roger and Rafa. I've always found his achievements the most impressive of the trio.
 
Sweet Square said:
He has a book on running does that count ?

Also Usain Bolt can only do it for about 10 seconds!
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Pink Moon said:
Actually yes :lol:

Although I'd argue he floats around it gracefully such is his genius :drool:
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Mrs Smoker said:
Yes.
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Do they test snooker players? I think some of the old Ritalin would work a treat in that sport. Not implying that Ronnie is up to anything.

Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
So you all don't have any issue with Lewis representing Canada at the amateur level?
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Lewis isn’t that popular here still and he doesn’t get anywhere near the respect that he gets in the US for his boxing achievements. You be surprised how many Brits start foaming at the mouth when you tell them he was a greater heavyweight than Tyson.

Froome is another interesting one. He’s just not popular at all. He’s never even been in the top 3 of SPOTY despite being Britain’s greatest ever cyclist whilst his team mates with more modest achievements have actually won it in recent years.

I think it’s similar to Lennox because he was born and raised in Kenya and has never lived here people don’t feel that he actually belongs to us.
 
just to throw another name into the mix, triple jumper, Jonathan Edwards, still holds world record at that event since 1995. 2000 to 2002 he was dominant in that sport. as per wiki page:
"At one point in 2002, Edwards held all the gold medals for the "four majors" (Olympic Games, World Championships, Commonwealth Games and European Championships). " Even as far back as olympics 1996 he was silver
 
Not true - which is why one of England's finest CB's completely disagreeing with him in Rio....

I kinda agree with it and all, but it's not necessarily his fault and he earnt and continues to keep his place in that car, by continuing to be utterly dominant, barely an ounce of focus lost. He wasn't always in the best car when coming through, he wasn't the richest....Ronnie gets similar luxuries which he's also earnt - but he's never had the same level of focus for so long. That alone puts Lewis very high up.
 
I find it interesting how boring sports you watch in the UK compared to us Norwegians who only watch fun sports.

Apart from football, and maybe billiards/snooker, the rest are boring as feck to watch.

I'd given it to O'Sullivan or Henry, or maybe a boxer, if it had to be an individual sport. Tennizzzzzz..... are people really watching that? :lol:
 
Grylte said:
I find it interesting how boring sports you watch in the UK compared to us Norwegians who only watch fun sports.

Apart from football, and maybe billiards/snooker, the rest are boring as feck to watch.

I'd given it to O'Sullivan or Henry, or maybe a boxer, if it had to be an individual sport. Tennizzzzzz..... are people really watching that? :lol:
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:lol:

Like watching some roided up Noggie walking up a mountain in skis is entertaining!
 
Paula Radcliffe's 2003 London Marathon has to be up there with Britain's best sporting performance of all time.
 
Grylte said:
I find it interesting how boring sports you watch in the UK compared to us Norwegians who only watch fun sports.

Apart from football, and maybe billiards/snooker, the rest are boring as feck to watch.

I'd given it to O'Sullivan or Henry, or maybe a boxer, if it had to be an individual sport. Tennizzzzzz..... are people really watching that? :lol:
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You class tennis as a boring sport and state that Norwegians only watch "fun sports" while you probably watch a shitload of winter sports that no one apart from Scandinavia gives a feck about?
 
Classical Mechanic said:
:lol:

Like watching some roided up Noggie walking up a mountain in skis is entertaining!
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RobinLFC said:
You class tennis as a boring sport and state that Norwegians only watch "fun sports" while you probably watch a shitload of winter sports that no one apart from Scandinavia gives a feck about?
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:lol: Yeah, I wouldn`t sit on a high horse if half my country is obsessed with cross country where barely anything happens. Biathlon I understand, at least has the shooting highlights.
 
Pink Moon said:
Why is it?

And best drivers don't always get the best cars. Fernando Alonso's cars for large spells of his career were absolute trash even though the general consensus was he was the best driver on the grid. There's way too much politics and nepotism involved in F1. Whoever is bringing in the most amount of money (Perez) or whoever is the son of a rich owner (Stroll) will always get a seat ahead of better drivers.
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If it was that easy why hasn't anybody else got to 7 titles? just like with any team sport picking the right team at the right team is also important. Fernando Alonso is arguably just as talented on his day, but he was hot headed and not so much of a team player. In an alternate world he could have ended up in the Mercedes and potentially could have won more titles, but who's to say he would have won more?

I wonder who the Germans would consider their GOAT, that would be interesting.
 
Adam-Utd said:
If it was that easy why hasn't anybody else got to 7 titles? just like with any team sport picking the right team at the right team is also important. Fernando Alonso is arguably just as talented on his day, but he was hot headed and not so much of a team player. In an alternate world he could have ended up in the Mercedes and potentially could have won more titles, but who's to say he would have won more?

I wonder who the Germans would consider their GOAT, that would be interesting.
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I never said it was easy. I just highlighted that he has by far the best car on the grid. Schumacher also has 7 and he had by far the best car on the grid too. It's just the way it goes. Most drivers, Hamilton included, think Senna is the GOAT despite him not even being the most successful driver of his era.

I personally just think it's a bit daft to call an F1 driver the GOAT sportsperson of a country when you take everything into consideration.

As for Germany it's hard to look past Steffi Graf, surely? 22 grand slams, number 1 for 377 weeks, the only player to have won every slam at least 4 times, won every slam and an Olympic gold in 1988. Even won a doubles slam that year for good measure. Also won 5 tour finals.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I think Radcliffe is undermined by her Olympic performances with regards to the thread topic but I agree that it is one of the best single performances by a Brit.
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Yeah, that's fair. I do think long distance runners face an uphill battle in getting properly recognized for their performances, though, maybe especially women. In Norway we have Grete Waitz, which of course is huge, but someone like Ingrid Kristiansen I feel is barely known for her achievements outside of people really interested. The only person ever to hold the world record in 5k, 10k and Marathon simultaneously, first woman under 15 min for the 5k, first athlete to be a World Champion on track, road and cross country, held the 10k record for 16 years and the Marathon for 13.

Absolutely insane. Not British, though, so off topic.
 
Adam-Utd said:
If it was that easy why hasn't anybody else got to 7 titles? just like with any team sport picking the right team at the right team is also important. Fernando Alonso is arguably just as talented on his day, but he was hot headed and not so much of a team player. In an alternate world he could have ended up in the Mercedes and potentially could have won more titles, but who's to say he would have won more?

I wonder who the Germans would consider their GOAT, that would be interesting.
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Overall, Graf easily. If you split it by gender, men is difficult. Probably Beckenbauer, Schumacher or to throw some mystification in, Max Schmelling (although there`s no real reason).
 
Pink Moon said:
I never said it was easy. I just highlighted that he has by far the best car on the grid. Schumacher also has 7 and he had by far the best car on the grid too. It's just the way it goes. Most drivers, Hamilton included, think Senna is the GOAT despite him not even being the most successful driver of his era.

I personally just think it's a bit daft to call an F1 driver the GOAT sportsperson of a country when you take everything into consideration.

As for Germany it's hard to look past Steffi Graf, surely? 22 grand slams, number 1 for 377 weeks, the only player to have won every slam at least 4 times, won every slam and an Olympic gold in 1988. Even won a doubles slam that year for good measure. Also won 5 tour finals.
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As you say F1 is a very difficult and complex sport for many reasons - but Hamilton is more than just a winner because of Mercedes. Senna for me is also one of my favourites (my daughter is called Senna) but unfortunately due to his accident his place in the record books don't show his true standings.

For me it's Hamilton/Schumacher/Senna in no particular order. The era before with Fangio/Clark/Moss etc is just a different sport all together, but they're all legendary in their own right.

I'm not big on other countries but Staf is certainly a great choice.

Kasper said:
Overall, Graf easily. If you split it by gender, men is difficult. Probably Beckenbauer, Schumacher or to throw some mystification in, Max Schmelling (although there`s no real reason).
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Thanks!
 
RobinLFC said:
You class tennis as a boring sport and state that Norwegians only watch "fun sports" while you probably watch a shitload of winter sports that no one apart from Scandinavia gives a feck about?
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Tennis is really boring, just bouncing a ball back and forth...
Biathlon is fun, skijumping is ok, alpine is fun, cross country relay can be exiting!

Kasper said:
:lol: Yeah, I wouldn`t sit on a high horse if half my country is obsessed with cross country where barely anything happens. Biathlon I understand, at least has the shooting highlights.
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A lot more happens in cross country than you'd think if.
Also a lot of Brits seems to think marathon is great fun, but there you'll have the same person in fron from 100m to the end, that rarely happens in crosscountry.

And as i said above, there are more winter sports than crosscountry, and all are more fun to watch than the summer olympics ;)
 
NotThatSoph said:
Yeah, that's fair. I do think long distance runners face an uphill battle in getting properly recognized for their performances, though, maybe especially women. In Norway we have Grete Waitz, which of course is huge, but someone like Ingrid Kristiansen I feel is barely known for her achievements outside of people really interested. The only person ever to hold the world record in 5k, 10k and Marathon simultaneously, first woman under 15 min for the 5k, first athlete to be a World Champion on track, road and cross country, held the 10k record for 16 years and the Marathon for 13.

Absolutely insane. Not British, though, so off topic.
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I'd never heard of her admittedly but it's a hell of a CV.
 
Bojan11 said:
He has a strong case.

Beat Federer and Nadal at their favourite slams.

Better head to head against Fed and Nadal

Most master series titles. Believe it or not tennis doesn’t revolve just around Slams.

6th years ended as world number 1 which is a record tied to Sampras.

Will surpass Federer for most amount of weeks at number 1 ranking.

He has had to deal with Nadal and Murray in their prime as well as Federer. Federers most slams came before 2010 where Djokovic and Murray were still learning and it was only Nadal challenging him on other surfaces from 2007. Before that his challengers were Hewitt, Roddick and Gonzalez.

All three have good cases. So saying Djokovic doesn’t have a leg to stand on is ludicrous.

@Kevin and @wr8_utd what you think?
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Didn’t read the previous posts but Djokovic will have a good claim very soon. Also he has held all four grand slam titles at one point, won four back to back. That is an incredible achievement.
 
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