Granite chins .. any boxers here?

Jopub

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Probably like me a few of you have been rightly impressed by the incredible chin that Frochs seems to havethe other night. As does Calzaghe and the very top fighters.

As a teen I had a couple of best mates who were serious good boxers and one particularly gifted lad when set for what seemed a career stopped overnight - just like that. Being a world boxing champ had been his dream since we were kids

He went on as a junior and on upwards then suddenly stopped when becoming a Southern Area junior champ. He had incredibly quick hands and great foot speed too and won many of his fights quite easily.

He won his last fight but it was a 'real' fight against a durable but stamina sapping opponent plenty of hits and a bit of a continuous brawl. But he won

He stopped after winning that fight and said that every time he got 'tapped' he could feel the legs going and that for him it was not worth discussing - he knew the first real punch he took he'd be going 'out' admitting he had 'no chin'

Disappointing but a wise move we all thought. I myself used to mess with him for a few rounds here and there at the gym and even after what I considered being hit, but he said was nothing, he put me out a few times so I obviously had no chin for it - kids messing about

When I see how pros punch at close quarters I can only marvel at this in built gift they must have to progress. When you see some of the hits they withstand let alone throw it really is an incredible thing
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Question I had was if there are any boxers here - boxtards :D ! do you ever do any training on 'the chin' - can you ? is it possible?

There are so many facets you can work on - fitness, stamina, power, strength, timing, movement but having a granite chin strikes me as you either have one or you dont (Khan)

Is there any work a boxer can do to better this ? I would have thought it better to be able to move backwards as a punch goes into you rather than having a solid neck that simply withstands the momentum being forced into your chin

Any training methods that help this affliction of a weak chin? Must be soul destroying for someone like Khan who is a fantastically gifted fighter but must fear that one hit when he knows he'll probably get nailed
 
Firstly moving your head back isnt a good way to defend from punches it makes you an easy target and alot of people including myself still do it as novices.
There was the age old addage that chewing rubber improves your jaw but the main idea is to strengthen the legs and neck muscles lifting weights with your neck in order to be able to take a punch.
Freddie roach had khan slim his upper body and strengthen his legs to combat his poor punch resistance.
The best way I think though is to keep your chin tucked to your shoulder,when you jab your shoulder should cover your chin and your other hand should be up providing cover also
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as you can see here Winky, probably the best jab in the game, has his left hand up covering and when his jabbing arm provides cover to his chin
 
CLK_FPC said:
The best way I think though is to keep your chin tucked to your shoulder,when you jab your shoulder should cover your chin and your other hand should be up providing cover also
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yup...

also the thing about a punch to the jaw is that if your chin is exposed the angle makes it easier for the force to transfer up the jaw and up to the temple area, making you slightly disorientated...

with the chin tucked in this cant happen...

also it renders uppercutts a lot less effective...

but being pumped up of adrenalin and determined that even if the other guy hits you all your going to do is hit him back harder untill you have fecked him up and made him look an idiot is what works best for me... i do more kick boxing than boxing but basically quite similar
 
Spoonatov said:
It's all in the legs.
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That's where the power comes from but I don't think it's got much to do with how well you can take a punch.

CLK makes some good points about how to avoid getting hit. But, no matter how good you are at evading punches, every now and then someone is gonna ring your bell, which is where "chin" comes into it. Training neck muscles to help absorb impact makes sense but I'm not sure that makes all that much difference, if a really powerful punch catches someone right on the button.

The whole "good chin" thing has always intrigued me. I just think some people have a brain that is more prone to concussion than others. I asked a similar question on a doctor's message board and a neurosurgeon came up with a theory that there are anatomical variations regarding how well "tethered" the brain is within the skull.

Knock-outs usually happen due to rotational stress applied to the brain, or the brain impacting on the inside of your skull. This means that the more mobile your brain is within your skull, the higher the likelihood of you getting KTFO. And this is down to plain old good luck, absolutely no way you can train to change this.
 
EZee said:
yup...

also the thing about a punch to the jaw is that if your chin is exposed the angle makes it easier for the force to transfer up the jaw and up to the temple area, making you slightly disorientated...

with the chin tucked in this cant happen...

also it renders uppercutts a lot less effective...

but being pumped up of adrenalin and determined that even if the other guy hits you all your going to do is hit him back harder untill you have fecked him up and made him look an idiot is what works best for me... i do more kick boxing than boxing but basically quite similar
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You won't be doing any of that if you're lying flat on your back, drooling, with tiny wee birds flying in circles round your head.
 
Marvin Hagler never knocked out only dropped once one what many still see as a slip by Roldan was found to have a thicker skull than normal so that helps as well
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You won't be doing any of that if you're lying flat on your back, drooling, with tiny wee birds flying in circles round your head.
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true...

well not till i see them in the carpark afterwards...

im a very bad looser...

but honestly the adrenalin realy helps me to focus and take a punch better... i dont get these people who come into the ring all calm... i go in there wanting to realy realy feck the other person up...

ive only been knocked out once and that was in training... wasnt warmed up properly and took an elbow in the temple... BOOM... straight out...
 
beards lol thats why excessive beards have to be cut before comp as well as they can be used to cut. Duran used to grow almighty beards and i was told i have to cut mine before my next fight even though as Ams you have to wear head gear
 
I aint been knocked out yet, I would like to think I have a decent chin honed from years of fighting on the road, funnily i always find myself out numbered and getting attacked from behind it has happened 3 time in probably 3 of the biggest fights i have been in :lol: strong chin shitty awareness
 
EZee said:
true...

well not till i see them in the carpark afterwards...

im a very bad looser...

but honestly the adrenalin realy helps me to focus and take a punch better... i dont get these people who come into the ring all calm... i go in there wanting to realy realy feck the other person up...

ive only been knocked out once and that was in training... wasnt warmed up properly and took an elbow in the temple... BOOM... straight out...
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Different strokes for different folks, I reckon.

The thing about adrenaline is that it bumps up your pulse, heart-rate and BP and will put a greater strain on your cardio, over a few rounds, not to mention the fact that it can cause people's muscles to tighten up, which makes them - ironically - even more likely to get knocked out.

The ideal combination is probably being ice calm and loose, but still absolutely desperate to take someone's head off.

Much easier said than done though. Whenever I used to spar, I was usually somewhere between mild anxiety and absolutely shitting myself. I've always been more of a lover than a fighter, see ;)
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Different strokes for different folks, I reckon.

The thing about adrenaline is that it bumps up your pulse, heart-rate and BP and will put a greater strain on your cardio, over a few rounds, not to mention the fact that it can cause people's muscles to tighten up, which makes them - ironically - even more likely to get knocked out.

The ideal combination is probably being ice calm and loose, but still absolutely desperate to take someone's head off.

Much easier said than done though. Whenever I used to spar, I was usually somewhere between mild anxiety and absolutely shitting myself. I've always been more of a lover than a fighter, see ;)
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yeah... i train mainly reality based martial arts... jkd, krav maga... so for me i like adrenalin when i fight...

any kickboxing, muay thai or mma i do is usually only 3X 3 minute rounds...
 
I thought it was to do with your spine, and the tolerance it can take - building your neck muscles like CLK pointed out maybe decreases the chance of being KO'd by a few percent but if you've a glass jaw the best thing you can do is defend it, tuck your chin in, always have a guard.

The reason I liked Prince Naseem & even Eubank to an extent, was that they used to showboat by leaving their chin's out to be hit - whether they could take punch on the button is neiither here nor there, but by doing this it frustrated the life out of opponents - its like Ronaldo dicking you, it makes you react which how the above fighters would expose their opponents.
 
Hes actually a pretty sound boxer, Nate 'the galaxy warrior' Campbell he is the man at lightweight unified champ and all that but had a massive moment of madness :lol:
 
thanks guys some thought provoking stuff here

Interesting from a medical point of view that the tighter inside your skull your brain is the less likely it is to jolt severely when hit, sounds pretty conclusive to me

Always fascinated by the actual power required or less so when a peachy one goes in on the button as they say

For me that beauty by Lloyd Honeyghan on Don Curry ( reckoned unbeatable at the time) was one of the greatest ever - hardly seemed to really hit him but momentum and timing put his lights right out

Seem to remember an awesome hit by 'the Hit Man' himself Thommy Hearns on Roberto Duran that finished him

Takes a lot of balls to get into a ring so hats off to anybody getting in there
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That's where the power comes from but I don't think it's got much to do with how well you can take a punch.

.
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I think it does. In fact, I think the stronger the legs the better the chin. Naseem' had a very good chin, his upper body was slim, yet his legs were well built(relatively, of course). As for strength. That really depends. Hearns, for example, got strength from his height.

Oh and great chins - Oliver McCall had an amazing chin.
 
Spoonatov said:
I think it does. In fact, I think the stronger the legs the better the chin. Naseem' had a very good chin, his upper body was slim, yet his legs were well built(relatively, of course). As for strength. That really depends. Hearns, for example, got strength from his height.

Oh and great chins - Oliver McCall had an amazing chin.
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Aah but over time do they lose that facility as in the last couple of years with Hearns he was getting knocked out by some less severe punches

Jesus, remember that Hagler Hearns fight :devil:

Kinell those were the days unbelievable -what was it only four rounds I think - it felt like two fights of 15 rounds each !!
 
Spoonatov said:
I think it does. In fact, I think the stronger the legs the better the chin. Naseem' had a very good chin, his upper body was slim, yet his legs were well built(relatively, of course). As for strength. That really depends. Hearns, for example, got strength from his height.

Oh and great chins - Oliver McCall had an amazing chin.
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Beats me how strong legs can make any difference whatsoever to what happens to the old grey matter when someone smacks you upside the head.
 
some of this article is more relevant than other bits but
Relax mentally. Your mindset is very important. If you fear that the pain will be more agonizing than what it actually will be, it'll hurt even worse. If you know you might get punched, accept that you will get punched so that you can prepare yourself mentally for it.


Don't panic! If you panic you will have a hard time recovering from a hard blow. You'll be surprised how fast your body will recover after a hard punch. You need to immediately look for a counterattack.
Avoid tunnel vision. When confronted with a threat, it's very easy to make that the center of your universe. Avoid this natural tendency and try to maintain peripheral vision and awareness of your surroundings, especially other assailants. There may be something that can help you in the ensuing fight, your assailant may have a weapon, or there maybe someone else attempting to jump you from behind.
When you get hit, try not to think about it. Not thinking about it helps the pain go away. Remember that pain is temporary and there are worse situations you could be in. If you keep your chin down, you can take a lot of hits to your forehead and you'll make it through. It's when you get hit in the jaw or the nose, or you get the wind knocked out of you, that you might be in trouble, and that is what the remainder of the steps will address.
There are many martial arts that utilize various conditioning exercises to help you keep your mind focused in the midst of pain and discomfort. Such training is definitely a commitment (most exercises must be done every day), but that is the nature of mental conditioning.
Strengthen your neck. Boxers sometimes train by wearing head straps connected to a weight. They lay down on the ring with their heads hanging over the edge so the weight dangles over the floor, and they lift their heads up and down to strengthen the neck. Neck muscle building exercise, however, can result in serious injury if done improperly, and put you out of commission, so only do this under the guidance of a professional.
Practice. In order to learn to relax, and not panic, you really need to experience the sensation of having punches thrown at you. You will obviously want to do this in a controlled environment that safely simulates a real world scenario as best as possible. Being punched is the best way to take the fear out of it. If you are flinching, you can train that away.
Breathe. When someone punches you in the stomach area, breathing out hard and swift will take all air out of your stomach so that they don't knock the wind out of you. Tighten your abdominal muscles; it will help protect vital organs. Try not to double up or bend over. Instead, if the situation allows, stretch backward slightly.
It's hard to flex your abdominal muscles if they aren't strong, so do this: just before the punch lands, shoot a short burst of air from your mouth or nose (breathe out very slightly and very quickly). Your abs will naturally flex very tightly, which will minimize both the pain and the damage to your vital organs. It may also unnerve opponents when they hit something rock-hard in your stomach, instead of the soft tissue they were expecting (even if you're skinny or fat, your abs are still very hard muscles, just not very defined.) Practice this technique a lot so that you find what works for you and it comes naturally in a fight.
Try not to get hit while breathing in or holding your breath. This will only result in you "getting winded" or "getting the wind knocked out of you". When shocked like this, you simply can't respond in the following second or so.
If a punch is aimed at your face or throat and cannot be blocked or dodged, the best thing to do would be to duck and take the punch with your forehead instead of your nose, neck, etc. Of course it will still hurt, but not nearly as much. Besides that, the assailant's fist will clamp down onto nothing but your skull, if it's angled improperly the fingers can be badly forced back.


Keep your chin down. This is to avoid getting your jaw hit.
Remember to keep your mouth shut, and your tongue well inside it, you wouldn't want to bite your own tongue involuntarily when receiving an uppercut. Also, your teeth shouldn't really be clenched tight. Keep your jaw closed, if your jaw is open when you get punched it could lead to a broken jaw or teeth, or a severed tongue.
When punched in the head, particularly in the sides (cheeks), try to keep your head as stable as you can, if you jolt the pain will be greater.
If you are hit in the head-region and start bleeding, be aware that your body naturally maintains a higher blood pressure there. Don't panic at gushing nose-bleeds, or profuse bleeding, as they usually look worse than they actually are. While it is important that you seek medical attention as soon as possible, you should stay calm and try to get out of the immediate danger of this assailant first.
Try to "roll with the punch". If you can't avoid getting hit, move your body in the direction of the hit. This increases the time of the impact, which by the properties of impulse (a change in momentum) decreases the force.


If you can't move away from a punch, a very good alternative is to move your body into your opponent (similar to a boxer's clinch). This has the benefit of either reducing the power of their punch or jamming it out altogether. If you can catch your opponent off-balance, this has the added effect of possibly knocking them down and giving you time to escape.
Protect your vulnerable areas. There are some parts of your body (shoulders, pectorals, arms, fists) which can take strong hits with relatively minor damage. Present these targets to your opponent while protecting your vulnerable areas.


Turn your body slightly away from the oncoming attack to protect your centerline, such as your groin, solar plexus, throat.
Keep your elbows tight to your torso so as to protect your ribs.
Keep your eyes on your assailant so you can react to his attacks and properly move or defend yourself.
Don't cover up, unless there's nothing else you can do.
Keep your balance. Getting knocked down in a fight is generally a bad thing, as it decreases your ability to escape, makes you vulnerable to kicking or getting crushed, in addition to the danger of injuring yourself in the process of falling.


In general, adopt a wide even stance with your legs firmly underneath you. This will allow you to move faster, absorb your assailants momentum, and counterattack quickly.



[edit] TipsIt is natural for someone to close their eyes if they see a punch coming. However, try not to keep your eyes closed for too long. A full second may already be too long. Try to keep your eyes open or you won't know what your opponent is going to do next.
Remember that learning to take punches takes more than simply reading about how it is done. You need to condition your mind and your body and this takes time and a lot of work.
Before entering a fight it is important to have an idea of what to do, for example do not just wave your arms in the air attempting to strike. Moves such as the "double tap, fore arm smack" are better as they combine a series of punches that will increase pain inflicted on the opponent, whilst giving time for you to escape.
Try to maximize the time the fist strikes you. As a basic law of physics the longer the impulse (in this case a punch) the less force it exerts on you.
If you get knocked down do not get back up until you are out of your assailant's fighting range. You are completely open to any attack while getting up off the ground. Try rolling out of the assailant's fighting range (about seven to eight feet). Note that your assailant will still be standing up during this attempt so try to keep an eye on the assailant's movement while rolling away. Another suggestion would be to do a "Kip-Up". Most martial arts teach this move to get off the ground quickly and with out using your arms. The motion starts with the legs bent and thrust toward your chest, then a sudden "push" of the legs into the air followed by an abdominal crunch to get your upper body in the air then end landing on your feet. It is strongly advised not to try this with out a proper instructor as injuries are inevitable when learning, even when done with an instructor.
Hold your breath after getting punched, it kind of eases the pain.
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I've always been told that when it comes down to it you can't put muscles on chins- just one of those things.

Its why a lot of boxing people I spoken to and read think Khan is finished- just doesn't have the chin to withstand a decent fight.
 
in the same breath neither did roy jones and he got a very long way. There are things you can do to avoid the problem and Technically Khan is extremely good so with the right tutilage he could very well make it
 
CLK_FPC said:
in the same breath neither did roy jones and he got a very long way. There are things you can do to avoid the problem and Technically Khan is extremely good so with the right tutilage he could very well make it
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Khan's is truly terrible though and it could severly hurt his confidence (not to mention his draw and prospective cards) if he is KO'd again before he properly masters his technique.

Also Roy Jones was the best of a generation- Khan will be nowhere near as good, not if he is getting knocked out in his early twenties.
 
Slugger said:
Khan's is truly terrible though and it could severly hurt his confidence (not to mention his draw and prospective cards) if he is KO'd again before he properly masters his technique.

Also Roy Jones was the best of a generation- Khan will be nowhere near as good, not if he is getting knocked out in his early twenties.
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thats why everyone thinks he should sign with Mayweather probably one of the best defensive coaches in boxing. His fundementals are great right now, but look at it like this. Roy Jones was a great athlete but cant actually box for shit, never learnt the fundementals and relied on athleticism to get by Fast as hell and all flash and glitz so its no coincidence that as he has hit old age and his speed and other attributes have diminished that he is losing and getting kayoed in terrible ways where as a master of the game like Bernard Hopkins can still put on performances like he did against Pavlik
 
CLK_FPC said:
thats why everyone thinks he should sign with Mayweather probably one of the best defensive coaches in boxing. His fundementals are great right now, but look at it like this. Roy Jones was a great athlete but cant actually box for shit, never learnt the fundementals and relied on athleticism to get by Fast as hell and all flash and glitz so its no coincidence that as he has hit old age and his speed and other attributes have diminished that he is losing and getting kayoed in terrible ways where as a master of the game like Bernard Hopkins can still put on performances like he did against Pavlik
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Nah mate can't agree with ya on Jones. Watched a couple of his videos and he was absolutley awesome in his day with great technique on top of his athleticism. You don't become the best pound for pound without fundamentals.

Good shout with Mayweather Sn. and Khan though- Khan would do very well under him.
 
Go and check he has no jab, thats why his speciality punch was the lead right. He made his name because he was unorthodox, doing things that went against the established 'rules' of boxing like throwing the quadruple hook. Things that he could do because he was so athletically gifted.
 
I would submit that bone structure has a great deal to do with it.

I don't think I've ever seen a thick bodied Polynesian that couldn't be hit broadside the head with an aluminum bat and not even blink.

David Tua, Mark Hunt etc.

Then there are the guys who have learned to minimize the blow by rolling with the punch.
 
CLK_FPC said:
Marvin Hagler never knocked out only dropped once one what many still see as a slip by Roldan was found to have a thicker skull than normal so that helps as well
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Marvelous Marvin Hagler was a good fighter: exciting to watch. I'm glad somene remembers him. Does anyone remember Dwayne Bobeck? He was a pretty good fighter but was known for his glass jaw. Two or three years after he retired I met him down in Atlantic City. Personable young man he was. I asked him if he still had a glass jaw. My favourite fighter was Ray "Boom Boom" Mancini. He was another exciting boxer. Or maybe it was because he was Italian and I was dating an Italian bloke at the time....
 
Hagler is my favourite boxer along with Bernard Hopkins, a native from your philly. Both could fight as well as box and it would have been one hell of a fight if by some miracle they met at 160 pounds.
Boom Boom was from Ohio same place as Kelly Pavlik, Im pretty sure Mancini killed someone in the ring
 
Surely the key to having a good chin is not getting hit in side of the temple as thats the most likely place to get "knocked out" from right?
 
AdZzUtd said:
Surely the key to having a good chin is not getting hit in side of the temple as thats the most likely place to get "knocked out" from right?
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Varies but I think the Chin is the most likely due to the nerve behind the jaw bone, not many boxers would make it too far if they couldn't take a shot to the temple.
 
CLK_FPC said:
Hagler is my favourite boxer along with Bernard Hopkins, a native from your philly. Both could fight as well as box and it would have been one hell of a fight if by some miracle they met at 160 pounds.
Boom Boom was from Ohio same place as Kelly Pavlik, Im pretty sure Mancini killed someone in the ring
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He did. Duk Kim.
 
I think you're right to say that the legs play a part, having a strong base leading up to the core can only complement you ability to absorb the impact of blows. Strong upper back and neck muscles play a big part as well. CLK PFC summed it up nicely though, you need to keep your chin tucked , not only does it provide cover but it's holding your head in a tighter (wrong choice of word) position, lessening the whiplash effect of receiving a blow. I don't know if your friend was correct to quit as you can go a long way without having a great chin just by learning to box well defensively. You see so many amateurs fighting with a loose guard and high head that it makes you wonder what these guys could do if they just had a decent coach.
 
CLK_FPC said:
Marvin Hagler never knocked out only dropped once one what many still see as a slip by Roldan was found to have a thicker skull than normal so that helps as well
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Doesn't repeated impact have the effect of increasing bone density? I'm sure i read something once about exercise to combat osteoperosis. so I'd imagine most boxers actually have tougher skulls than other people.
 
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