Dayne's mentioned early on by Joffrey, and again referred to as being far greater in skill than Eddard by the Three-Eyed Raven. But yeah, I think it'd be really hard to speculate in the TV thread unless you were on top of your show/book differences and hadn't read leaks.
GoT and ASOIAF Discussion | Leaker's (Robin) Paradise
- Thread starter fishfingers15
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Yes but theorising based on anything other than the show is banned in there. It's really that simple. Now you know anyway, so just save yourself the hassle
Very much agreed.
@Prodigal7 there's a book thread here too - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/a-s...ilers-aired-episodes-only-speculation.326655/
I don't believe the sword has ever been mentioned as "dawn" on the show. Dayne is only referred to as the sword of the morning.
Ok thanks
I believe so, yeah.
I think someone already made a point about Dawn, but even with the references on the show, it'll be an almighty stretch to include Arthur Dayne in the discussions. If anyone is doing it, they have clearly read the books/fan theories on the internet, which is why a ban is being discussed. Anyone who mentions Arthur Dayne should also be banned IMO.
Either way, what is the one thing you miss having watched the shows? It can be a plotline, character, object etc..
For me, Victarion's story arc of Dragon binder/Moqorro etc is the biggest miss
For me, Victarion's story arc of Dragon binder/Moqorro etc is the biggest miss
Dawn hasn't been mentioned, and the show changed Dawn to two swords in the show. I was pretty sure than Mel refered to Jon as AA in the last season.
To all only show readers, some weird pointless changes from the show: Ned never fought with Jaime (if he had, he very likely would have been dead considering that Jaime is considerably better), Jon never fought the mutineers and in Hardhorme. Some good changes that show made.
Belwas Strong. How difficult would it have been to include him as one of Dani's bodyguards?
Did the Jaime/Ned fight not happen in the books? I only listened to them while at work, so clearly missed so much, but I would have put money on them clashing and thinking the show version was better.
I wouldn't say missed because TWOW isn't out yet, but Sam's last chapter in AFFC left me hanging - I was really looking forward to seeing Marwyn on the show, he's been mentioned a lot in the books and looks like he'll have a big role to come. Actually I thought Oldtown was really disappointing in the show.
Also, they fecked up Euron badly, just as bad as Stannis.
Also, they fecked up Euron badly, just as bad as Stannis.
He's a colourful character but largely expendable. He doesn't serve any purpose to Daenerys other than being there for the most part. Daario's the love interest, Missandei translates and Grey Worm leads a portion of her army. But Belwas is mostly just...there.
I think Dawn was the one sword in the show (Ned placed it at the bottom of Lyanna''s bed as a possible tip to Jon being AA). Dayne just used another sword instead of dawn being a massive longsword. I bet they did that to make Dayne look more epic in the fight scene.
Stannis and Jaime have been criminally misrepresented in the TV show in favor of the classic flawless hero approach which Jon Snow has been given.
I can understand why the cut some of the Greyjoy brothers, but I reckon they should've merged Victarion/Aeron into Victarion, and had him introduced in Season 2 and serve as the main adviser alongside Theon. Have him leave Winterfell to go to Moat Caitlin or something before Ramsay sacks it, and then add in the proper Kingsmoot plot earlier. By doing so you're creating an actual role for Victarion early on and have him as an established character long before his proper book introduction.
Yeah I just like him as a character.
Yeah I think it's a given the two sword thing was more to represent just how far above everyone else Dayne was.
Yeah he's quite entertaining. I reckon you'd need a very, very good actor for him not to come across as a bit cringey though. He would've added some colour and comedy to Dany's mostly dreary and humourless show arc though.
Obviously wasting Stannis as a great commander and perhaps even more criminally Doran. All that about scheming and planning, to just be off'd the moment they'd actually have to write a believable plan.
Same, but maybe lesser, with Margaery. What was all that to show she was scheming, only to just abruptly kill her?
With Jaimie I wished we got to see him fight properly. For one of, if not the best swordsman in Westeros, plenty of characters have been given far better fight scenes than him. It's hard to imagine him besting the likes of the mountain/hound/Oberyn/Bronn/daario based on what we saw.
Same, but maybe lesser, with Margaery. What was all that to show she was scheming, only to just abruptly kill her?
With Jaimie I wished we got to see him fight properly. For one of, if not the best swordsman in Westeros, plenty of characters have been given far better fight scenes than him. It's hard to imagine him besting the likes of the mountain/hound/Oberyn/Bronn/daario based on what we saw.
Nope, one of Jaime's soldiers simply stabs Ned in the leg before anything can happen.
He's in it, but I'm disappointed they went swaggering cocksure C-Tier Jack Sparrow rather than ominously dark magic with Euron. He's one of my favourite characters in the book down to how mysterious he is.
Stannis + Doran are mentioned above, but also Arianne. Real big miss to have an awesome femme fatale in the show.
One that you can't really fault down to budgeting issues and CGI stuff, but I'm still disappointed the direwolves weren't anything more than an ocassional pet.
Oh yeah another obvious one - Selmy. They killed him off for no good reason.
They met but never fought in the books. The Lannisters just slaughter the Starks and there is no time for an one on one. Anyway, it has been mentioned heavily that Jaime is a far better fighter than Ned (who is good, but nothing special, while Jaime at that time might be the greatest swordsman in Westeros).
Other things that didn't happen:
- Jaime has never had the discussion with Tywin when Tywin asks him why he didn't kill Ned? It doesn't even make sense, considering that Tywin never wanted Ned dead.
- Brianne never met and fought Hound. Hound 'died' from an infection.
- As I said before, most of the things around Jon didn't happen in the books. No battle beyond the wall against the mutineers, no Hardhorne battle, he never killed a Whitewalker (he will likely do it on the future), and very likely the Battle of the Bastards won't happen in the books (Stannis should win against Boltons, right).
- The Night King doesn't exist on the show. The Others (the book name for Whitewalkers) don't have a leader (or at least we haven't seen it) but seems to be commanded from the Great Other (the legendary antagonist of R'hllor).
- Jaime never went to Dorne. Instead he went to Riverlands and had a deal with Blackfish (who didn't die in the books). By that stage, he doesn't have any feeling toward Cersei, and when Cersei sends a letter to ask him to fight for her in the trial, he doesn't think about it for a second.
Really big changes:
- Dorne. Not only they cut the princess and heir of Dorne (Arianne), but they made Doran - an ultimate schemer - into an idiot who got butchered.
- Stannis who was supposed to be the greatest commander in the seven kingdoms was made an idiot on the show.
- The entire storyline of Aegon VI Targaryan being cut from the show, and in some way, given to Jon and/or Jaime.
- The Lannisters are still strong in the show, in the books they were far far weaker than Tyrells by the end of the fifth book, and any clash between them would have been an easy victory from Tyrells.
- Euron was made an evil Jack Sparrow, while on the books he is the most terrifying character from them all. Victarion totally cut from the show.
- Roose Bolton in the books is a Tywin-lite, and Ramsey is absolutely terrified from him. Ramsey is also much less caricature.
- Sansa wasn't ever sold to Boltons, instead LF plans for her to marry the next heir of Vale (with Robyn either dying or getting killed in the process) and then Vale attacking North to put Sansa on the throne, and in this way, LF to control two regions via Sansa. Ramsey gets married with Sansa's childhood friend, with Boltons claiming that she is Arya. She also suffers much more than Sansa.
- Ages of characters. Ned and Robert are 35 in the beginning of the books, Jaime and Cersei slightly younger. Daenerys is 13, Robb and Jon are 14, Sansa is 11, Arya is 9 and Bran is 7. Missandrei is 8.
- Allister Thorne is never acting lord commander of the Nightswatch, neither the leader of them when they kill Jon. Bowen Marsh serves on those roles.
- Lady Stoneheart (Catelyn Stark 'fire zombie') being cut from the show.
- Varys hasn't served any purpose since the fourth season, but he is the mastermind behind everything in the books (he is to be blamed for the war probably more than LF). He also executes Kevan Lannister when he replaces Cersei as King regent and seems to be putting the kingdom back in line.
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The big way they fecked Jaime was by not having him tell Tyrion the truth about Tysha when he helped him escape. And so Tyrion never told him about the dudes Cersei had been fecking, and so Jaime never turned against Cersei on the show the way he did in AFFC.
Definitely the entire Aegon's plot, which is by far the most interesting thing in the last book.
Yeah, that might have not only made Jaime's character truer to the book's version, but it is also the best dialogue in the entire show. They also missed 'Stannis, Stannis, Stannis' and 'only Cat'.
My one wish for the show is that Azor Ahai isn't Daenarys or Jon but episode 6 and 7 have seemingly shit all over that.
There is so much foreshadowing of Jaime getting his right hand back and being azor ahai in the books, right from the moment his hand was cut off. I feel he could still kill Cersei and become azor ahai in growing back his hand but the show really don't help non book readers to get behind that idea and his potential as a warrior for mankind. I agree with @Revan saying that Jaime has been portrayed as just a good swordsman who might not have beaten Brienne.
I'm starting to think the show might have realized this and that could be why Euron had the line of calling Jaime the best swordsman in the world in his first meeting with Cersei, but it seems too little too late.
There is so much foreshadowing of Jaime getting his right hand back and being azor ahai in the books, right from the moment his hand was cut off. I feel he could still kill Cersei and become azor ahai in growing back his hand but the show really don't help non book readers to get behind that idea and his potential as a warrior for mankind. I agree with @Revan saying that Jaime has been portrayed as just a good swordsman who might not have beaten Brienne.
I'm starting to think the show might have realized this and that could be why Euron had the line of calling Jaime the best swordsman in the world in his first meeting with Cersei, but it seems too little too late.
I thought that it was dead cert that Jon is AA until the last season, and now I have no idea who is him. Obviously, him and Dany are the main candidates, but Rhaegar himself seems a good possible candidate too. Jaime has a shot at this stage, and Aegon has been basically been portrayed as not important for the endgame from the show.
Bet the show watchers won't come into this thread anymore 
What if nobody is Azor Ahai? What if the prophecy is bullshit?
The only reason that Jaime may still be AA is because the number of dumb decisions show takes when it comes to story telling. It's completely beyond the pale that I wouldn't it put it past D and B to make it happen
I'm thinking that the prince that was promised and azor ahai could be separate prophecies and form part of the three heads of the dragon. I read an interview somewhere where GRRM talks about how prophecies get altered and misread over the years so I think prophecy will play a role in some way.
One more character that the show absolutely destroyed - Loras Tyrell. Just watching some of the scenes with him, he's unrecognizable from the books.
Not a big deal tbh. He was just a foil for Jaime's in AFFC. The Tyrells in the books are a bit one dimensional aside from Olenna.
I think we'll see different protagonists sort of 'fulfill' it in different ways, with no clear main Azor Ahai as such.
Not sure how far it is feasible, but the first thought I had while reading this was @InfiniteBoredom and his arguments of coin minting in Westeros
https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/4on126/jon_and_daenerys_are_twins_evidence_inside/
Thanks @Raees
https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/4on126/jon_and_daenerys_are_twins_evidence_inside/
Thanks @Raees
Some season 8 casting news from Watchers on the Wall:
By the sound of things, that's Last Hearth (Umbers) and Karhold (Karstarks) getting fecked up in the first episode of season 8. Jon mentioned both places in the season 7 premiere and described them as "the first two castles in [the White Walkers'] path" if they were to breach The Wall. And they have. So I guess these two children will escape the carnage and flee to Winterfell, which would explain the "multiple scenes" argument - although that is put in there by Watchers on the Wall as opposed to it being a line from the casting call. Either way, I expect we'll finally get to see Last Hearth and Karhold before they're swallowed whole by the Night King's army.
By the sound of things, that's Last Hearth (Umbers) and Karhold (Karstarks) getting fecked up in the first episode of season 8. Jon mentioned both places in the season 7 premiere and described them as "the first two castles in [the White Walkers'] path" if they were to breach The Wall. And they have. So I guess these two children will escape the carnage and flee to Winterfell, which would explain the "multiple scenes" argument - although that is put in there by Watchers on the Wall as opposed to it being a line from the casting call. Either way, I expect we'll finally get to see Last Hearth and Karhold before they're swallowed whole by the Night King's army.
This is certainly an interesting theory but I'm not sure. Game of Thrones isn't this type of show anymore, and it never really was in the first place. Even in its moments of sloppy writing (of which there's been a fair bit of over the last three seasons), they usually only do something if there's textual evidence for it. If something's afoot that the characters don't know about, the writers usually employ dramatic irony in bucketloads to make sure the audience are one step ahead of them.
For example, we've known for an entire season that Jon is Lyanna's son, and we know this because the season 6 finale just showed us without obscuring any facts. We know Jon is Rhaegar Targaryen's son because Bran and Sam both just flat out told us. It's not a show that does smoke and mirrors, like Twin Peaks or something. If Daenerys had been born at the same time as Jon, the scene would have just shown Daenerys being born at the same time as Jon. I'm not sure she'd be called Daenerys either if Ned was present at her birth - he would have definitely taken her in as well.
Just to expand further on this point: if Bran really did warg into Jon's sword during Beyond the Wall (he didn't), Bran would have been shown on screen with those white contacts in. Sticking with Beyond the Wall, they show Daenerys leaving Dragonstone so we know she's going to end up saving the Magnificent Seven. They wouldn't just have her turn up out of nowhere and do the explaining afterwards. They used to do that occasionally, like with Tywin's arrival at Blackwater or the Boltons' role in the Red Wedding, but never very often and certainly not anymore.
It isn't possible at all, but still a fun theory to read
Oh great, Lyanna Mormont II.
The second one is more interesting - could they introduce Quentyn Martell or Blackfyre-Aegon after all? Nah, probably not.
I'm going to guess at a plotline: a children-of-the-forest leader guy holding the knowledge of the secret macguffin for defeating the Night King.
That's a honest, legit guess, I'm not responsible for any similarities of the actual plot, should they occur. :-P
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