As long as the Glazers are still our owners, Woodward will never be pushed down from his throne.
Good enough for top 4 next season?
- Thread starter Zlatattack
- Start date
Azzi vs AWB debatable???
If you add Pogba to that constellation I’d agree with it. Would be a great mix of skills. Tenacity, flair and control.
This logic is about as good as expecting a new PM to come in and get a better Brexit deal!
Sometimes you just have to accept the price is what it is and either the investors (Glazers) pay it or you do with what you have.
Either way, the failure won't be with Woodward. If stories are to be believed either feedback suggests Judge is a bad negotiator and he should go, or the scouting team is failing to find appropriate alternatives, but that is hard to prove.
The most likely scenario is a mix of unsuitable alternatives and excessive price for suitable players leading to the no value in the market issue.
The fact most of the transfers are up coming rather than current top talent wouldy support this
No, I just said it trying to be funny.
Liverpool, City, Spurs are going to finish top 3 almost guaranteed. Us, Chelsea, Arsenal will probably fight for 4th and with this current squad I really hate to say it we will finish 5th at best.
Spurs with what is commonly said is a superior team, more settled squad and a better manager finished 5 points ahead of us last year.
We finished second the year before, spurs 4 points behind and added no players to their team. It isn't as straight forward as the coming season is simply a continuation of the year before. We had one of the most turbulent, toxic seasons I can recall us having. Changed manager mid year and had an absolute nightmare when it came to letting in goals, the media circus was pretty much full throttle from pre season and morale probably being rock bottom. The difference between us and Spurs was 1 point compared to the previous year.
I don't agree that Spurs are suddenly light years ahead and certainly don't feel that they are guaranteed to finish above us.
You also agreed that we will battle it out for 4th which is slightly different to being 4 players away from even being close to challenging. I just feel that the absolute meltdown is a bit over the top. It was only 3 years ago that Chelsea finished tenth. Let that sink in.... Tenth. That's below Stoke, a team who have since been relegated. They won the league the following year. Teams have overcome far bugger gaps than what we are currently facing and whilst it will be challenging, I'm shocked at how quickly and easily people just throw the towel in.
Possibly. I don't think it's unrealistic to think 1 or 2 could also see us finish third.
Need a CM/CB to challenge for top 4.
Add a RW on that and i'd feel a lot more comfortable.
Oh and we need to keep Lukaku if we can't get a proper striker in. Greenwood/Rashford are too young/inconsistent and might never fulfill their potential
Add a RW on that and i'd feel a lot more comfortable.
Oh and we need to keep Lukaku if we can't get a proper striker in. Greenwood/Rashford are too young/inconsistent and might never fulfill their potential
It will be a 5-6 way fight for 4th spot next season.
We've done nothing tangible to strengthen, neither have Arsenal. Chelsea are obviously greatly weakened. Leicester, Everton and Wolves will all give the 3 bigger clubs a huge run for their money. I think 4th right through to 9th is impossible to call right now.
But seeing how garbage we were when it mattered last season, there is zero chance we'll be the 1 team from 6 getting that spot.
We've done nothing tangible to strengthen, neither have Arsenal. Chelsea are obviously greatly weakened. Leicester, Everton and Wolves will all give the 3 bigger clubs a huge run for their money. I think 4th right through to 9th is impossible to call right now.
But seeing how garbage we were when it mattered last season, there is zero chance we'll be the 1 team from 6 getting that spot.
I think at least two of those three (Wolves and Leicester) genuinely might surpass us this year
I think Wan Bissaka is a relatively big improvement, and I think we'll still sign Maguire which will be a huge plus as well. On the flip side, lost Herrera, big minus. Last season overall I'd say was a bit of an underperformance on the whole, plus natural improvement with younger players... think we'd be on course with low 70's in terms of points if we wign Maguire and nothing else. Will probably be enough as Chelsea IMO will have ~10 fewer (if not more), Arsenal around 70. Also changes a bit if we sell Pogba and Lukaku and don't sign anyone to replace like is seemingly happening with Herrera.
The absolutely disastrous end to the season made me realize the truth. That even Ole is going to struggle big time unless big changes are done. Now I fully expected that with the donkeys we have running the club there was a big chance we would have another bad summer but there was hope in me that with Ole in charge we would finally see some of the dross finally leaving and that proper talents would come in to replace them. We are now less than a month away from our first league game against Chelsea and it's practically the same exact squad who played some of the worst football I've seen in my lifetime on multiple occasions last season.
For me to considering all this become positive about next season we needed a damn good summer in terms of both ins and outs and so far with less than a month remaining of the window it looks to be a repeat of the same shit show last summer low and behold. There are players out there like Pepe available and we don't even try going for him when we are so desperate for a RW. These are the type of reasons that already makes me negative about next year, that we are still content with someone like Lingard in that poisition.
You would expect that a season like we have had would have some repercussion apart from the manager sacked in November? How can you have the same group year in year out under performing. Doesnt matter what reputations some of the players come in with.
Such an unbalanced squad, no idea what system we want to play, what style.
I am gob smacked to read that some people think that if we bought 2 players we can finish top 3.
It's like last season didn't happen.
How have people deluded themselves into thinking that we are in any way good enough to finish top 4?
Top 8 is most likely.
Top 6 would be a great achievement.
Top 4 - I'd start believing in magic and voodoo if this happened. I'd also suspect that Ole has made a deal with the devil.
I'd love someone to throw this post at me, at the end of the season, if we do finish top 4, as it means that we are improving quickly. I desperately want us to do well, but with the current set up, I just can't see how this is possible.
...and here's a good read on BBC's website, which summarises where we currently are:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48953874
It's like last season didn't happen.
How have people deluded themselves into thinking that we are in any way good enough to finish top 4?
Top 8 is most likely.
Top 6 would be a great achievement.
Top 4 - I'd start believing in magic and voodoo if this happened. I'd also suspect that Ole has made a deal with the devil.
I'd love someone to throw this post at me, at the end of the season, if we do finish top 4, as it means that we are improving quickly. I desperately want us to do well, but with the current set up, I just can't see how this is possible.
...and here's a good read on BBC's website, which summarises where we currently are:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48953874
If we get some confidence we are good enough to finish top 4! That's all! It doesn't require any magic or voodoo.
I'm surprised so many people are so sure United will finish outside of the top 6, and some even lower than that. I think there are many on here who are overestimating the opposition if they believe Wolves, Leicester and Everton suddenly have better squads. There's a reason they finished comfortably behind the top 6. And you are also overestimating Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs (all of which had horrible ends to the season). Looking at this United squad I don't see a reason why you shouldn't expect to be battling for top 4, you're not the only team with problems.
I think it's mostly frustration that our problems are so easy to solve. I genuinely think with a new RW, a new CD and a new striker to replace Lukaku we can challenge for the title next year. Each of these players would have to be world class, but it's possible. There's also the fact that we have to start spending money at some point.
The way we ended last season gives me little faith in our squad. I like our new transfer policy and it's always exciting with young prospects, but let us not kid ourselves that they'll suddenly become world-beaters because they joined us, we tend to have the opposite effect on our transfers. We have a weak squad mentality, mercenaries that have no interst beyond lining their own pockets and building their images, we are at the same exact spot we finished last season.
The problem is the fans are the only ones who can see this problem. The Hierarchy at United seem happy with the squad, add 2 signings to keep fans of their backs flirt with big signings and not deliver.
This has been the case with Ed Woodward, he is absolutely rubbish.
Worse thing is we got a manager who is a yes man.
Dont be surprised a lot of United supporters on the CAF are fecking idiots
We almost got top 4 despite giving our rivals a 12 point lead by Christmas. If we get a decent CM in we have a great chance.
At our current rate this should be re wrote as " good enough for top 6 " . Another slow transfer window and unless we improve massively we have zero hope competing . I feel for Ole and I believe Pep himself would struggle with the clowns running our club
Mourinho was right saying that it was a big achievement getting 2nd and win the Europa League with this squad.
No doubt about that.
No doubt about that.
If we sign Fernandes, Maguire or a quality defender and longstaff whilst keeping Lukaku and Pogba then I think we would have enough for top 4.
Arsenal and Chelsea have gone backwards since last season whereas we've stood still. I think we have a great chance, even more so with a couple of signings more.
That would be true if you were self delusionalYeah I know I'm being kind to Azpilicueta aren't I
we havnt stood still we finished 6th and that squad are down fellaini, Herrera, lukaku has one foot out the door and our star midfielder wants out of the club. We were getting outplayed by midtable teams home and away last season
None of the aforementioned players contributed to the team, I'd go as far to say they were detrimental. Well it's easy to be negative and simply extrapolate our poor form by the end of the season to next. Let's not forget the amazing run we had when Ole took over. He's also had more time by now to implement his setup and learn his players.
I'm very optimistic myself anyway, I've posted this elsewhere and I'll post it here cause it seems the place for it.
I think our rivals are a proper mess, yes as bad or worse than us but far too many of our supporters are infatuated with Woodward and the Glazers and ignoring the work being done by Ole & Mike.
Anyway, here goes:
*De Gea finally seems ready to commit - Ole spoke very positively about him staying and working with him. I've had my issues with him not committing but if he is to stay I'm happy for that. Just wanted it boxed off and hate this stuff dragging out for as long as it has.
*Mata resigns - Not overly excited about this one but he has his uses as a sub late on in games as he is arguably our best set piece taker and reads the game very well. More importantly he has a great attitude and hopefully the younger lads learn from him.
*Tuanzebe & Periera resign - I'm more excited about the former of course. Had a good season at Villa and I'm hoping to feck Ole keeps him round and starts pushing 1 of the more senior players out over the course of the season. Periera is an odd one, it genuinely feels like he's been at the club forever! He's a decent squad option to have round and had some good games last season, but also some poor ones as well. I understand some supporters won't be buzzing about the lad but with the extra games we've to play in Europa now this season we need squad players too.
Rashford resigns - Continuing the trend of new deals, we've tied down a talented kid here to a long term deal. At 21 he still has lots to learn and who better to learn from than Ole? I don't think we've had many better natural finishers at the club in the last half century than Ole, Ruud or RVP arguably but that aside? Anyway this will be Rashford's first full proper chance at CF over a full season. He's had the summer off, good pre season behind him, here's hoping he can deliver cause it very much feels like the onus is on him and its sink or swim now Marcus.
Youth - I'm confident we'll see more of the younger lads this year. Who? Greenwood, Garner, Chong & Gomes to name 4 more who could possibly see more involvement. With RW still a bit of an issue (no idea if James will play there?) It leaves the door open for Chong possibly? Either way, those extra EL games along with league, FA & League Cup means we've a grueling season ahead and we need extra bodies.
Wan-Bissaka - Think its fair to say he was top 3 fullback last season? Anyone disagree? I'd only have Liverpool's lads ahead of him. Defensively, he was arguably the best fullback in the league. He's ours now! Hoping for big things from him and he hits the ground running. It pushes Young down to the bench as well most games I'm sure.
Daniel James - I can't say much about the kid as I've not watched him in a full game myself but what I've seen his pace is absolutely terrifying, but more importantly for me is his energy and work rate. If your reading this, how often did you personally complain or read others complain about lack of movement in our front line? I think he'll be an absolute handful even if things aren't working for him he has it about him that he just won't stop going at the back line. Yet another talented kid with huge potential on our hands here.
Martial / Sanchez - At 23 years old it really really is put up or shut up time for Martial. I've defended the lad plenty and with Rom leaving (looking likely) it really is time for him to step up and start making a name for himself consistently now. Again working alongside Ole, I can only hope he finally focuses and delivers on a weekly basis. Sanchez, what a disaster transfer, but with Rom moving on, he is now our senior attacking player and has to set an example? Will he? Can he even? At 30 years old and years of PL experience and proving it season in and out, we know he can do it. Perhaps he'll be played CF more and Martial sticks to the LW? If he starts delivering not a single 1 of us will give a shite about his wages.
Further signings / sales - Ole confirmed yesterday that we are still working on getting some more deals done, I'd say its 2 more myself and 1 of them possibly being Bruno, which we'll all be happy with I'm sure? I think everyone wants a new CB and its quite possible it could be Maguire but who knows, we might get a surprise and Toby or De Ligt could be signed? Maybe I'm being overly positive? Call me deluded if you will but I think Raiola might use De Ligt as a make weight if you will to get Pogba out and get us De Ligt.
I know we wanted to see more players sold but reality is this, if your a manager would you touch any of Rojo, Jones or Darmian? Considering their poor record of playing time, injury history & of course wages. The whole transfer window for all clubs so far has been slow, its not exclusive to United.
New Direction - Finally, its quite obvious to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention to current goings on that we're doing a 180 from Jose's tenure. Ole / Mike are working massively on fitness, I think this was a huge factor in our dip in form at the back end of the season, we missed key players in many games and of course our energy was gone and we were played right through, like the Everton game. We are being tougher with transfers, both with buying and selling. We are buying players that want to be here! They are young but talented and offer far greater upside than focusing on more senior players for the short term.
Sorry for the rant but there is plenty of good if folks can bother looking for them.
I think our rivals are a proper mess, yes as bad or worse than us but far too many of our supporters are infatuated with Woodward and the Glazers and ignoring the work being done by Ole & Mike.
Anyway, here goes:
*De Gea finally seems ready to commit - Ole spoke very positively about him staying and working with him. I've had my issues with him not committing but if he is to stay I'm happy for that. Just wanted it boxed off and hate this stuff dragging out for as long as it has.
*Mata resigns - Not overly excited about this one but he has his uses as a sub late on in games as he is arguably our best set piece taker and reads the game very well. More importantly he has a great attitude and hopefully the younger lads learn from him.
*Tuanzebe & Periera resign - I'm more excited about the former of course. Had a good season at Villa and I'm hoping to feck Ole keeps him round and starts pushing 1 of the more senior players out over the course of the season. Periera is an odd one, it genuinely feels like he's been at the club forever! He's a decent squad option to have round and had some good games last season, but also some poor ones as well. I understand some supporters won't be buzzing about the lad but with the extra games we've to play in Europa now this season we need squad players too.
Rashford resigns - Continuing the trend of new deals, we've tied down a talented kid here to a long term deal. At 21 he still has lots to learn and who better to learn from than Ole? I don't think we've had many better natural finishers at the club in the last half century than Ole, Ruud or RVP arguably but that aside? Anyway this will be Rashford's first full proper chance at CF over a full season. He's had the summer off, good pre season behind him, here's hoping he can deliver cause it very much feels like the onus is on him and its sink or swim now Marcus.
Youth - I'm confident we'll see more of the younger lads this year. Who? Greenwood, Garner, Chong & Gomes to name 4 more who could possibly see more involvement. With RW still a bit of an issue (no idea if James will play there?) It leaves the door open for Chong possibly? Either way, those extra EL games along with league, FA & League Cup means we've a grueling season ahead and we need extra bodies.
Wan-Bissaka - Think its fair to say he was top 3 fullback last season? Anyone disagree? I'd only have Liverpool's lads ahead of him. Defensively, he was arguably the best fullback in the league. He's ours now! Hoping for big things from him and he hits the ground running. It pushes Young down to the bench as well most games I'm sure.
Daniel James - I can't say much about the kid as I've not watched him in a full game myself but what I've seen his pace is absolutely terrifying, but more importantly for me is his energy and work rate. If your reading this, how often did you personally complain or read others complain about lack of movement in our front line? I think he'll be an absolute handful even if things aren't working for him he has it about him that he just won't stop going at the back line. Yet another talented kid with huge potential on our hands here.
Martial / Sanchez - At 23 years old it really really is put up or shut up time for Martial. I've defended the lad plenty and with Rom leaving (looking likely) it really is time for him to step up and start making a name for himself consistently now. Again working alongside Ole, I can only hope he finally focuses and delivers on a weekly basis. Sanchez, what a disaster transfer, but with Rom moving on, he is now our senior attacking player and has to set an example? Will he? Can he even? At 30 years old and years of PL experience and proving it season in and out, we know he can do it. Perhaps he'll be played CF more and Martial sticks to the LW? If he starts delivering not a single 1 of us will give a shite about his wages.
Further signings / sales - Ole confirmed yesterday that we are still working on getting some more deals done, I'd say its 2 more myself and 1 of them possibly being Bruno, which we'll all be happy with I'm sure? I think everyone wants a new CB and its quite possible it could be Maguire but who knows, we might get a surprise and Toby or De Ligt could be signed? Maybe I'm being overly positive? Call me deluded if you will but I think Raiola might use De Ligt as a make weight if you will to get Pogba out and get us De Ligt.
I know we wanted to see more players sold but reality is this, if your a manager would you touch any of Rojo, Jones or Darmian? Considering their poor record of playing time, injury history & of course wages. The whole transfer window for all clubs so far has been slow, its not exclusive to United.
New Direction - Finally, its quite obvious to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention to current goings on that we're doing a 180 from Jose's tenure. Ole / Mike are working massively on fitness, I think this was a huge factor in our dip in form at the back end of the season, we missed key players in many games and of course our energy was gone and we were played right through, like the Everton game. We are being tougher with transfers, both with buying and selling. We are buying players that want to be here! They are young but talented and offer far greater upside than focusing on more senior players for the short term.
Sorry for the rant but there is plenty of good if folks can bother looking for them.
A month ago I said no way, and nothing has occurred to change my thinking.
I don't even feel bad about it anymore.
A good season (imo..) would see Rashford hit 25, Lingard and Martial leave, and some young players, Cheong, Greenwood etc have a breakthrough season.
I don't even feel bad about it anymore.
A good season (imo..) would see Rashford hit 25, Lingard and Martial leave, and some young players, Cheong, Greenwood etc have a breakthrough season.
@Keefy18 Totally agree with this. I would also add that I think Lindelof and Shaw both showed improvement last season and are young enough that it is reasonable to expect that they can progress again this season, Shaw especially looks to have come back much fitter this summer and I am hoping for really big things.
I know I'll be accused of being too negative but I'd be very surprised if we got top 4 next season barring a very good end to the window. Between various players wanting to leave, Ole and the current strength of squad I really don't think we'll compete for it.
I think if you keep Pogba and a couple of solid signings United has a good chance.
Without Hazard and with Lampard as coach, I don't see Chelsea challenging and I wouldn't be surprised if Spurs slip this season, the only reason they got top 4 last season was because Arsenal blew it at the end IMO.
Without Hazard and with Lampard as coach, I don't see Chelsea challenging and I wouldn't be surprised if Spurs slip this season, the only reason they got top 4 last season was because Arsenal blew it at the end IMO.
The reason we got top for is because we accumulated more points than the team in 5th.
You say that about Spurs but it looks like they're actually finally making some moves in the transfer market so they should improve as long as they keep working like they have been. Arsenal are Arsenal, nothing to worry about in the league at least. But Chelsea are underrated. I agree that Lampard might put them on dodgy ground and they still don't have a proper striker, but they might give some of their youngsters a go (Abraham up front maybe?) and they've a lot of good experienced players too. If we don't make a few more moves then I'd still fancy them to finish above us. Having said that, Fernandes and a CB and you'd have to back us again so who knows. All to play for.
Yeah but when not able to play football and not doing the basics right is the problem, United blows away everybody in that regard.
Which is bringing us back to my first original point to that guy that Jorginho & Kante would have walk over in our current midfield. And he overrated Matic & Fred. To me if we are combining both team’s midfield, it’ll be:
Kante - Jorginho
—— Pogba ——
And you got quality for top 4 midfield there at very least.
Not sure how that guy thinks that Matic & Fred are better. Defensively Kante is much better than them & passing ability Jorginho is much better than them.
I'm worried about Leicester. I think Rodgers is a very good manager who will have them playing good football.
I also look at their midfield and think all of them would be good enough to play for us. Choudhury, Maddison, Ndidi, Tielemans. If they keep Maguire then i think they'll be a solid outfit. They could probably do with more quality out wide/in attack though.