Good enough for top 4 next season?

kerryman said:
Well said...we picked up 15 points out of 36 from our last 12 PL games, if that form continues we will be nowhere near top 4. Given that we have much the same personnel (Herrera out and WAN Bissaka and James in) I'd imagine we'll see similar outcomes. In Ole's first 9 games we picked up 25 out of 27 points, after that we were garbage. Prior to that run we were also garbage picking up 26 out of 51 points. Excluding the new manager bounce run over 9 games, which seems to be an aberration, we picked up 41 points in 29 games (more than three quarters of a season). That's mid table form at best!
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Spot on..!
Solskjaer must surely know this.
He cannot have just casually forgiven and forgotten those debacles against Everton & Cardiff..?
 
Jeffthered said:
Chelsea and Arsenal have more settled teams. And better players. And I would argue better managers.
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Of course they don't :lol:

They aren't settled one bit and nor do they have better players. Chelsea went from a 352 under Conte to whatever Sarri ball is with Kante advanced and Jorginho holding etc..and now they will adopt a new philosophy under Lampard. There is nothing settled about them. They depended massively on Hazard for inspiration and with him gone their side may struggle a lot.

Arsenal can't buy, they have a hilariously bad mentality, far worse than ours and they lost their best midfielder without any likelihood of replacing him. Their centre backs are actually worse than ours FFS.

I know we've been poor but we have improved in one big hole in the team, and before the end of the window we will likely have brought in at least one midfielder and a centre back. There's no way we wouldn't be favourites for 4th.

Arsenal and Chelsea would not have better nor more settled squads going into the season.

Jeffthered said:
We are not settled, have a load of average players (for example, how is Ashley Young still a United starting player??? Think about that..) And I question the quality and ability of our manager who it seems to be more like a 'fan' than a manager of one of the biggest sports institutions on the planet. He seems like a kid, a rabbit caught in headlights.
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Why are you mentioning young? He just got replaced by Wan Bissaka. I don't think he'd play much anymore than say Linchenstiner would for Arsenal. And Ole is about as unproven as Lampard so evens there. Emery meanwhile is hilariously overrated. He has a good view on the game but major flaws in his approach.
 
I don't think we're good enough for top 4 but Arsenal and Chelsea seem even worse. Unless Leicester can hold on to all their players and add some big new faces, we should be able to get top 4.
 
United could just nip 4th place if Ole pulls out some magic. 1 in 5 chance.

Spurs actually spent some money and are stronger now. I think it was either spend or the manager walks.
Chelsea suffer from a transfer ban until next summer, but have an army of returning loanees (41 of them) to select from as squaddies. No change there.
United signed a right-back but lost a midfield powerhouse. No change here.
United should be more worried by the likes of Wolves and Leicester than Arsenal.

I forecast a top two race (City & Pool), followed Spurs, followed by 5 or 6 teams (United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Wolves, Leicester, Everton?) above mid-table.
 
Sandikan said:
We missed top 4 narrowly after barely winning a game in the last two months and having a dreadful first half of the season.

Top 4 isn't any sort of pipe dream!
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Completely agree. Although I think this season needs to be a rebuild season within the squad. Personally I would love Ole to take a punt on some of the youngsters to rattle the wages vampires. Get James, Gomes and Greenwood into the squad. Three players with the right attitude that if they played up to their potential, are players we would be looking to buy for 70m - 100m in a couple of season.
 
Will be lucky to get top 4 with this squad gaping hole down the middle lacking pace defensively.

Right wing an issue maybe Dalot could be used there and would prefer any day than Young.

Still question marks over Pogba and Dave staying.

Will probably have difficulty removing the deadwood.

Tour starts Sunday and all the rubbish from last season still with us, what happened to players not being part of the team after the Everton game.
 
Mark Pawelek said:
United could just nip 4th place if Ole pulls out some magic. 1 in 5 chance.

Spurs actually spent some money and are stronger now. I think it was either spend or the manager walks.
Chelsea suffer from a transfer ban until next summer, but have an army of returning loanees (41 of them) to select from as squaddies. No change there.
United signed a right-back but lost a midfield powerhouse. No change here.
United should be more worried by the likes of Wolves and Leicester than Arsenal.

I forecast a top two race (City & Pool), followed Spurs, followed by 5 or 6 teams (United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Wolves, Leicester, Everton?) above mid-table.
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Yep. That is where we stand. An also ran.
 
I don't think we'll make top four if we are going to sign Maguire and Longstaff and keep our current players.
I can even see Glazers firing OGS if so.
 
Maguire, AWB, Longstaff and James. Not impressed . We have a chance to get that top 4 with Chelsea transfer ban and yet, we screw up big time.

We made the same mistake last year. With CL, we should have signed some class players.

Club is being horribly managed.
 
You don’t have to be a very good team to finish 4th. Top 2 is done and dusted, expect Spurs to spend a bit more and finish 3rd.

No reason why we couldn’t finish 4th even with current squad but no reason we couldn’t finish 6th again or lower. If Maguire, Bruno and Longstaff are added I don’t see expectations being lifted too much. It would strengthen us but I still don’t think you can look at defence, midfield or attack and say with any certainty that any part of the team is sorted.
 
red4ever 79 said:
Strong line up??. Longstaff, Lingard. That front 3 is no where near good enough. RW and a new striker is needed.
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I said those are needed. But don’t expect it all to happen this summer. De gea, bissaka, Maguire, lindelof, Shaw, Pogba, Fernandes, Martial, Rashford. That counts for a strong line up. I didn’t say title challengers , I said a strong line up in a race for top 4. Hardly contentious.
 
How does Longstaff get in the team ahead of Mctominay and Fred?

Regardless, that team will easily get top four. Might even challenge for and win the title if we replace Longstaff with Fred/Mctominay, and lingard with a proper right attacker. Moreover, can Bruno and Pogba play together? I always taught it will be one or the other. A midfielder like Tielemans, Or Neves instead will give us a better balance and allow Pogba a free role.
 
De Gea​

AWB Lindelof Maguire Shaw​

Fernandez Fred Pogba​

Bergwijn Martial James​
 
Not good enough yet. I think we have more potential than Chelsea & Arsenal to get good enough before the season starts though.
I mean, sure we could get top 4, but I take "good enough" as top 4 being close to certainty.
I think Liverpool & City are going to be the top 2, unless some injuries or freak form stuff happens. Tottenham I think are better than the trailing 3, so I'll have them as a likely top 4 as well. Meaning we'll likely fight with Chelsea over one top 4 spot, with Arsenal, Wolves and Everton maybe pushing themselves into the mix if the top 3 contenders feck up.

Even if Atletico buy Morata and Chelsea have to run a season with Giroud on top I think they'll do better than expected.
Note that teams and formations are just taken out of my arse to put players in positions.

Giroud
CHO - Willian - Pulisic
Alonso - Kante - Azpilicueta
Rudiger - Christensen - Luiz
Kepa​

With squad-alternatives forming a decent second-string that lacks in some positions, but it could be less of an issue if they change formation:

Abraham
Barkley - Kovacic - Pedro
Jorginho - RLC
Emerson - Ampadu - Zouma - Zappacosta
Caballero​
Still with Van Ginkel, Drinkwater, Batshuayi & more I've forgotten about. I'd say they are very solid in midfield and have a squad of decent players despite the lack of world-class players outside of Kante.

I'd argue that we have some bigger names than them, but Pulisic & CHO are a decent wing-pairing, while we don't have a right-winger at all, and our left-wingers being talents that need to step up another level to be a level above their Chelsea counterparts (mainly thinking of Rashford & Martial as I haven't seen anything but that Chelsea game from James)
We have one better midfielder than their midfield, but they have a ton of good midfielders and Kante on top of that who is a absolute beast on providing a platform to others to play offensively without having to worry too much about losing the ball.

The team I feel the least worry about amongst the "top" teams, but they do have a good pair of forwards and a tradition for attacking, so they might surprise us. I think their thin squad in midfield will be a big issue if Torreira leaves and they don't have a replacement lined up, even if they go 4-2-3-1.

Note that teams and formations are just taken out of my arse to put players in positions.

Lacazette - Aubameyang - Mkhitaryan
Guendouzi - Xhaka - Elneny
Kolasinac - Sokratis - Koscielny - Bellerin
Leno​


I think they'll get in a player or two. But the penny-pinching around Tierney makes me think they might struggle in a few spots if they get their annual injuries. Even if they sign Zaha & Tierney I think they'll need more midfielders to fill out their squad.

As for ourselves, we've signed a unproven winger and gotten a good addition to one of our weakness areas in AWB. I think we lack more quality to challenge for the top 3 spots. We have one striker who has shown that he can scores a lot of goals, but he also wastes a lot of chances and doesn't fit into the way we play, nor does he want to stay. We seem to be putting our hopes in a player most people see as lazy (Martial), one people think doesn't want to be here (Pogba) and a youngster who despite the effort is a 10-goals a season player. We desperately need more goals, and we need a right-wing so it's not extremely predictable that we'll attack through our left-flank or with through-passes from Pogba.
We lack a settled midfield with the legs to work.

I can see us lining up something like this next season, as things are now:

Rashford - Martial - Lingard
Pogba - McTominay
Matic
Shaw - Lindelöf - Who cares - Bissaka
De Gea
​
I believe Lukaku will be sold. I don't see him staying after his comments along with his position in the squad.
Martial lacks movement, but is our most clinical finisher. Lingard is more or less a headless chicken (defensively) with some good offensive movement from time to time, and is really not good enough for a role in the first eleven. We desperately need another midfielder who can actually do the defensive work & pass the ball properly, especially when under pressure, or else we'll be giving away a lot of chances through the middle.

We are in a better situation generally now than we were last season due to signing Bissaka and the development of McTominay, but we still need a lot more to even get to Tottenhams level on paper. Our attack and central defense + defensive cover from midfield are far from the level it needs to be to get our on-field play to be good.

I actually worry with the re-signing of Mata that we won't go for a right-winger. Not that I mind Mata, he seems a good guy to have in the dressing room. There is always the hope that Dalot or James will make the right-wing theirs and do well, but that would be a bigger surprise than for example Pulisic doing great at Chelsea. I also don't think we'll go for a striker even if we sell Lukaku.

Ultimately I think this is going to be a rebuild season where we are the top prospect for the 4th place due to Chelsea not being allowed to invest any more money. But only if the squad settles into a playing style fast that is more similar to Ole's initial time at United than the last part.

The way I see us doing well (as in maybe challenging Spurs) would involve getting Lukaku in form, or preferably getting in at least a proper right-winger and hopefully a striker for the money we get from selling him.

Short summary, I think the PL will end up something like this as things stand:
1. City
2. Pool
3. Spurs
4. United
5. Chelsea
6. Arsenal

With Chelsea more likely to take our 4th spot than us being ready to take 3rd.
 
Not at the moment no. Will need atleast 3 more players to get top 4. Two midfielders and a centre back to even have a realistic chance.
 
Optimistic thinking is that the start by Mourinho won't be repeated and the run in was just a strange blip after the emotions of the OGS start. We will massively improve CB, RB, CM and either CF or RW while Chlesea and Arsenal are unable to improve on what they had last year with both losing players.

Pessimistic thinking is that bar a ten game run, Utd would be comfortably sitting in midtable. Only 1 decent signing so far and seem unable to get players across the line. Dross is still present and we have no settled formation or approach that we can excel at.

Going to be a great season to watch!
 
Ødegaard said:
1. City
2. Pool
3. Spurs
4. United
5. Chelsea
6. Arsenal

With Chelsea more likely to take our 4th spot than us being ready to take 3rd.
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This is what I think the table will look like as well. No one is catching Pool and City. Spurs look like they are finally ready to invest and back Pochettino so that will be enough to put them into third. I think we will be above Chelsea and Arsenal, pushing Spurs with the right investment. But we cannot possibly do a whole squad overhaul in one window.
 
The players are good enough to make the top 4. Not sure about the manager though. Ole might turn out to be better than expected. But also a lot worse. He's a big unknown.
 
Cliche Guevara said:
I’m confident we’ll make top four piss easy, regardless.
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I will revisit your post at the end of next season. I think we'll finish 6th, 7th or 8th.

To remind people who seem to have forgotten, after Ole's honeymoon period ended, we demonstrated relegation form and scored 1 point from 6, when playing relegated teams. Huddersfield were one of the worst teams ever seen in the EPL and we got a draw with them (on merit).

I'm not saying that we'll get relegated, but to be so confident of top 4 is outrageous and suggests that of you did not actually watch any of the games after the PSG match. We were dreadful and did not turn the corner.

I've also predicted that Ole will not be the manager on 01/01/2020.
 
Bilbo said:
Fitness was a major issue at the end of last season and cost us top four IMO - that will be addressed. I think we'll be comfortably above Arsenal and Chelsea next season. We're a better team than people think.
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If only it were that easy.
So many managers in the past have been sacked but if only they knew, all they needed was to increase fitness levels and they'd have been fine.
I think Moyes was very keen on working on fitness levels. He finished 7th - our worst finish since SAF left.
 
A lot of people are underestimating Chelsea on here. Even taking into account their transfer ban (and respected legal experts such as Jake Cohen and Despina Mavromati think there's a good chance of this being reduced for them to buy in January), Chelsea have both a far more balanced starting 11 than yourselves and superior squad depth also.

To demonstrate, if I made a joint 4-3-3 of both Chelsea's likely starting 11 and the 11 in OP's post, I'd select:
De Gea
Azpilicueta - Rudiger - Maguire - Emerson
Kante - Jorginho - Pogba
Pulisic - Giroud - Hudson-Odoi

Then to test squad depth by discarding the players from both OP's starting 11 and those from Chelsea's likely starting 11 that weren't used above (Arrizabalaga, Luiz, Loftus-Cheek), the below 11 is formed:

Romero
Zappacosta - Smalling - Christensen - Alonso
Kovacic - Matic - Barkley
Pedro - Lukaku - Willian

No-one can doubt that Chelsea underperformed under Sarri last season for a variety of reasons relating to squad harmony, but it would have to be assumed that this won't be an issue this season under a new manager that is the polar opposite of his combustible predecessor, as well as one that a variety of influential squad members successfully played alongside previously.

Ultimately it will come down to whether Solskjaer's ability as a manager is so far superior to Lampard's that it overhauls your above disadvantage in squad quality.
 
Tickle Lad said:
A lot of people are underestimating Chelsea on here. Even taking into account their transfer ban (and respected legal experts such as Jake Cohen and Despina Mavromati think there's a good chance of this being reduced for them to buy in January), Chelsea have both a far more balanced starting 11 than yourselves and superior squad depth also.

To demonstrate, if I made a joint 4-3-3 of both Chelsea's likely starting 11 and the 11 in OP's post, I'd select:
De Gea
Azpilicueta - Rudiger - Maguire - Emerson
Kante - Jorginho - Pogba
Pulisic - Giroud - Hudson-Odoi

Then to test squad depth by discarding the players from both OP's starting 11 and those from Chelsea's likely starting 11 that weren't used above (Arrizabalaga, Luiz, Loftus-Cheek), the below 11 is formed:

Romero
Zappacosta - Smalling - Christensen - Alonso
Kovacic - Matic - Barkley
Pedro - Lukaku - Willian

No-one can doubt that Chelsea underperformed under Sarri last season for a variety of reasons relating to squad harmony, but it would have to be assumed that this won't be an issue this season under a new manager that is the polar opposite of his combustible predecessor, as well as one that a variety of influential squad members successfully played alongside previously.

Ultimately it will come down to whether Solskjaer's ability as a manager is so far superior to Lampard's that it overhauls your above disadvantage in squad quality.
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According to numerous Chelseas fans in the Pogba thread, Hazard single handedly won them the Europa League and carried the team on his back. If they are right then Chelsea are fecked.

I know it is a question of opinion but I would pick Martial and Rashford over Giroud and Pulisic any day of the week. AWB and Shaw are better than the Chelsea full backs and to even hint that Jorginho should start over Sir Scott McTominay is blasphemous.
 
Yes,no, maybe?

Think we’re just about looking a little better than Arsenal and Chelsea now, on paper. Who knows? Assuming all three teams continue their recent trend it might come down to how our respective best and most influential players do. Goalscorer, defender, or keeper (de Gea). Not confident by any stretch myself.
 
We might be closer to sides which finished lower than us catching up and overtaking us rather than us making top 4 unless we make some more top signings.
 
Gandalf said:
According to numerous Chelseas fans in the Pogba thread, Hazard single handedly won them the Europa League and carried the team on his back. If they are right then Chelsea are fecked.

I know it is a question of opinion but I would pick Martial and Rashford over Giroud and Pulisic any day of the week. AWB and Shaw are better than the Chelsea full backs and to even hint that Jorginho should start over Sir Scott McTominay is blasphemous.
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Can either Rashford or Martial play right wing to take Pulisic's place? Then for me Giroud is a serially underestimated World Cup winner, with proven season-in-season-out performances that have gained gushing praise from some of the biggest names in football, not least Hazard last season for bringing the best of out him. I just don't see how Rashford/Martial yet compare.

Then Alonso was in the 2017-2018 PFA Team of the Year so I don't see how Shaw would even replace Emerson's deputy, whilst I wouldn't put AWB above Azpilicueta for the same reason I didn't put Arrizabalaga above De Gea; one superior season does not superiority make.
 
I think we have a good chance of getting top four, mainly based on the strength of the competiton. Chelsea have appointed a likewise inexperienced manager like us, they have lost their best player and arguably the best player in the league. They haven't got a striker, and can't sign anyone.

Arsenal don't have a large budget to strengthen in the areas they need to. They need two CB's, a LB, and a winger. They have lost Ramsey as well.

If we keep DDG and Pogba, then we will have the best squad on paper. Our window will probably end up the best out of the 3 clubs. I'd imagine we are going to sign 1-2 more players.
 
It’s obvious that we are relying too much on Pogba. We asked him to drop deeper to bring the ball forward which supposedly a ball playing centre back & deep playmaker midfield job. At the same time while he has to drop deeper, we expect him to create chances for our forwards by playing in advanced role. We also asked him to dictate the tempo which also a deep playmaker midfield job.

We are basically asking him to do 3 different tasks.

A ball playing centre back & a deep playmaker midfield should be the top 2 in requirement list for getting top 4. A right back to replace an ageing Young who wasn’t good enough last season also important.

If we can get those 3 positions minimum without losing Pogba & DDG, plus
Chelsea got weakened by losing Hazard and they aren’t signing a new striker, plus
Arsenal has low budget means struggling to strengthen their player and they already lost Ramsey one of their starting XI midfield.

I have a confidence we have a good squad for top 4.
 
jesperjaap said:
you seem to have forgotten they finished above us last year? Hazard is a big loss that Pulisic wont replace adequately but lets not forget they also had a manager who really didnt understand the club or the premiership and still got them to a final and top four
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To be honest, people who dont have any faith in this situation should consider to support an anther club.
Next season is almost the best chance for us to get in top4 or CL since Fergie left.
 
Tyinde said:
To be honest, people who dont have any faith in this situation should consider to support an anther club.
Next season is almost the best chance for us to get in top4 or CL since Fergie left.
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Even excluding the fact I dont agree its our best chance to get in the top four....the fact you view a chance of finishing in the top four as something to have faith in says enough in itself. Why should fans be going and supporting another club if they are unhappy with the diabolical transfer dealings, management, ownership, attitude and performances we have slipped too?
We have been spoilt of course under Ferguson, I remember the days of Ron Atkinson, but at least the effort, style of football and performances resembled our club.
You are totally entitled to voice such an opinion, but maybe a lot of the negative opinions are from fans, itterly frustrated and saddened as they care about the club so much
 
Out of Chelsea, Arsenal, Everton, Leicester, and Wolves I think we are favourites as things stand today. Bit ut will be tight. If we sign a CB and CM then we are clear favourites.
 
Wow!
What, there are many who reckon we'll finish above Chelsea and Arsenal and secure 4th?!?

Where am I??

I thought we'll be relegated judging by the ever present wave of pessimism washing over these shores?
 
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Even with a better RW, that's a front 3 that finishes 5-6th unless Rashford matures a bunch and Martial receives a personality transplant.
 
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