Golf 2023

FriedClams said:
Liked Schefflers interview afterwards where he talks about him having a bad warm up.... They were showing him on the range for a while and he was having a nightmare, snap hooked two drives in a row and looked so frustrated.
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This has got me jonesing for the Masters website where they have cameras on the range for all warmups. Only a month away.
 
calodo2003 said:
This has got me jonesing for the Masters website where they have cameras on the range for all warmups. Only a month away.
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I hope they have a dedicated commentator for at least some of it this year. Its amazing seeing all the shots but its a bit lifeless without someone talking.
 
FriedClams said:
I hope they have a dedicated commentator for at least some of it this year. Its amazing seeing all the shots but its a bit lifeless without someone talking.
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Definitely. I love the fact that every shot is traced, no matter the type.
 
mariachi-19 said:
That’s bad?
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For him yes... But it didnt look like a good warm up, he was finishing most swings with one hand on the club. He basically did the opposite of my last round, I had probably the all time driving range performance, and followed it up with 86.
 
$175 for that?! Thats a very good weeks worth of shopping at wholefoods
 
The leader Ramey shitting the bed on 17. Sad because he hit two great shots that just released too much.
 
I hope some of y’all have been watching Sky’s coverage these last few minutes. Absolutely fascinating discussion on how the modern game tends to not work with the course as very few can draw the ball off the tee anymore.
 
calodo2003 said:
I hope some of y’all have been watching Sky’s coverage these last few minutes. Absolutely fascinating discussion on how the modern game tends to not work with the course as very few can draw the ball off the tee anymore.
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Is that because modern pro golfers don't focus as much on shot shaping, tech or what is their reasoning?
 
edcunited1878 said:
Is that because modern pro golfers don't focus as much on shot shaping, tech or what is their reasoning?
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Fade has become the norm because it’s a better “miss”. Ie a controlled slice is better than a duck hook on most courses on the PGA tour.

Perhaps also the Tiger affect.

But I also think that players have focused on driving the ball also to circumvent the characteristics of particular courses. Kind the reason why Colin stands out so much.
 
mariachi-19 said:
Fade has become the norm because it’s a better “miss”. Ie a controlled slice is better than a duck hook on most courses on the PGA tour.

Perhaps also the Tiger affect.

But I also think that players have focused on driving the ball also to circumvent the characteristics of particular courses. Kind the reason why Colin stands out so much.
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Ah, that's interesting. I've seen more players fade the ball, working it left to right (for a righty) on hybrids for sure off the tee.

As you mentioned, lots of players try to bomb the courses they play and they theoretically don't have to worry much about shaping their shots. But with Colin, he's not that long of a hitter off the tee, but he's extremely precise and accurate. Also has great distance control. But with Tiger and elite golfers, the art of shaping the shot off any lie and most distances is what separates them...plus their short game/putting.

Also, course management is huge.
 
edcunited1878 said:
Ah, that's interesting. I've seen more players fade the ball, working it left to right (for a righty) on hybrids for sure off the tee.

As you mentioned, lots of players try to bomb the courses they play and they theoretically don't have to worry much about shaping their shots. But with Colin, he's not that long of a hitter off the tee, but he's extremely precise and accurate. Also has great distance control. But with Tiger and elite golfers, the art of shaping the shot off any lie and most distances is what separates them...plus their short game/putting.

Also, course management is huge.
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I think people underrate Tigers brilliance even more now that he’s older and you’re not seeing him every week. His ability to move the ball both ways, be long off the tee, have the best distance control and precision in the game and the most clutch putting plus doing it all consistency is unmatched and will never be repeated. It’s like 90+ in all stats on fifa. Little weakness.

I don’t care what people say on the goat topic, you put peak Tiger in any era, he’s the best.
 
mariachi-19 said:
I think people underrate Tigers brilliance even more now that he’s older and you’re not seeing him every week. His ability to move the ball both ways, be long off the tee, have the best distance control and precision in the game and the most clutch putting plus doing it all consistency is unmatched and will never be repeated. It’s like 90+ in all stats on fifa. Little weakness.

I don’t care what people say on the goat topic, you put peak Tiger in any era, he’s the best.
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And Tiger did it without the much improved technology. Courses had to be Tiger-proofed, remember that? Then finally came the technology, but with that reduced the actual skill of ball striking, shot shaping, etc. That's why watching Tiger or elite golfers with experience play at Augusta is so awesome, even after Augusta had to modify (lengthen). Tiger has gone through at least 3 known golf swing changes and it's impressive every time because he still can shape shots, distance control, etc. Obviously it's not as great since he's older and the swing plane is much easier on his body, but at his peak...it wasn't fair but amazingly amazing to witness.

And you mention putting...Tiger has this immense skill of putting to the picture. Which obviously requires green slope, distance, conditions, and break at different ball speeds - do I put through the break but make sure it's right center cut or let it ride with the breaks, but it better be read correctly. I read in a book once about his approach to putting to the picture/window. It was quite fascinating at the time.

Tiger doesn't use a hybrid. He's student/teacher/master and it shows as he's a big traditionalist similar to how Rory is because of Tiger and the other greats. Think Tiger's blades through Nike and now Taylor Made are based off his Titlest blades he used and won before Nike started manufacturing golf equipment.

https://golf.com/gear/tiger-woods-irons-up-for-sale/
 
edcunited1878 said:
Is that because modern pro golfers don't focus as much on shot shaping, tech or what is their reasoning?
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That the center of gravity on those 460cc drivers is pushed back deeper in the club face helping to create lower spin rates of the club face. If one can’t spin the ball, one can’t shape shots both ways & even the pros can’t turn over the virtual knuckleball that is the golf ball off the face.

It also has to do with the type of ball being played. TPC Sawgrass was built when balata was the preferred cover & windings of rubber bands were woven tightly together, that is literally what filled the ball along with a liquid or solid core. Balls like the Tour Balata by Titleist would stay on the club face much longer during impact, not trampolining like the modern ball does. Having a ball on a club face longer allows for much more spin. Plus the persimmon head drivers were still en vogue in the 70s. Those were soft as well, totally workable for a fade or draw.

It also has to do with what the current zeitgeist on tour is - bang it long off the tee. Since a hook really isn’t the modern drivers, the players know what their miss will be so it lets them swing a bit harder & more freely.

16 is a great hole to watch this saga play out. The inability to turn a ball over makes for a significantly harder hole than it should be.
 
mariachi-19 said:
I think people underrate Tigers brilliance even more now that he’s older and you’re not seeing him every week. His ability to move the ball both ways, be long off the tee, have the best distance control and precision in the game and the most clutch putting plus doing it all consistency is unmatched and will never be repeated. It’s like 90+ in all stats on fifa. Little weakness.

I don’t care what people say on the goat topic, you put peak Tiger in any era, he’s the best.
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Peak Tiger would struggle with the old school equipment & balls. Swing would let him down. That’s why it’s fairer to say Jack was the best old school golfer of all time & Tiger is the modern golfer of all time.
 
calodo2003 said:
That the center of gravity on those 460cc drivers is pushed back deeper in the club face helping to create lower spin rates of the club face. If one can’t spin the ball, one can’t shape shots both ways & even the pros can’t turn over the virtual knuckleball that is the golf ball off the face.

It also has to do with the type of ball being played. TPC Sawgrass was built when balata was the preferred cover & windings of rubber bands were woven tightly together, that is literally what filled the ball along with a liquid or solid core. Balls like the Tour Balata by Titleist would stay on the club face much longer during impact, not trampolining like the modern ball does. Having a ball on a club face longer allows for much more spin. Plus the persimmon head drivers were still en vogue in the 70s. Those were soft as well, totally workable for a fade or draw.

It also has to do with what the current zeitgeist on tour is - bang it long off the tee. Since a hook really isn’t the modern drivers, the players know what their miss will be so it lets them swing a bit harder & more freely.

16 is a great hole to watch this saga play out. The inability to turn a ball over makes for a significantly harder hole than it should be.
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But that's just off the tee with a driver. That's where game and course management come into play and it's probably being overlooked. If the ball and driver are too responsive, something has to compromise, no? 5 wood or long irons off the tee, depend on your medium to long irons on your approach and dial it in on the greens.

For how specialized equipment and individual components are to a club (grip, shaft, head, angle/lie), players should be able to exert control within their game. But as you said, distance is hyperfocused instead of true ball striking and shot shaping, which isn't isolated to a driver.
 
edcunited1878 said:
But that's just off the tee with a driver. That's where game and course management come into play and it's probably being overlooked. If the ball and driver are too responsive, something has to compromise, no? 5 wood or long irons off the tee, depend on your medium to long irons on your approach and dial it in on the greens.

For how specialized equipment and individual components are to a club (grip, shaft, head, angle/lie), players should be able to exert control within their game. But as you said, distance is hyperfocused instead of true ball striking and shot shaping, which isn't isolated to a driver.
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It is very challenging for them to draw the large headed drivers as the club doesn’t allow for it.

No pro will hardly ever club down to a 3 wood on a par five that is reachable. Again, 16 is the perfect example of this.

Modern golf is in a power mode, clubs are engineered to lessen spin & get off the club face hot. Hopefully it will shift back to playmaking mode. Just a couple of changes would allow for that, albeit the changes would be seismic.
 
What a wonderful days golf that was yesterday. So looking forward to today.
 
Finally broke 100 today for the first time ever after some shocking recent rounds so I like golf again :lol:
 
River crapped out. Are they going to get the final round in today? In Savannah we had some solid thunderstorms & it was part of the same front that is approaching PVB.
 
calodo2003 said:
It is very challenging for them to draw the large headed drivers as the club doesn’t allow for it.

No pro will hardly ever club down to a 3 wood on a par five that is reachable. Again, 16 is the perfect example of this.

Modern golf is in a power mode, clubs are engineered to lessen spin & get off the club face hot. Hopefully it will shift back to playmaking mode. Just a couple of changes would allow for that, albeit the changes would be seismic.
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I recently purchased a TM Aero Burner 2.0 3 wood to throw in the bag as I broke my old Wilson 3 wood... talk about hot off the face. That thing is a sling shot. Compared it back to back with the Stealth 2.0 3 wood and the tech between the two in 10 years is very interesting. Stealth is much more forgiving and just feels premimum, but the feel off the face of the burner is crazy.
 
mariachi-19 said:
I recently purchased a TM Aero Burner 2.0 3 wood to throw in the bag as I broke my old Wilson 3 wood... talk about hot off the face. That thing is a sling shot. Compared it back to back with the Stealth 2.0 3 wood and the tech between the two in 10 years is very interesting. Stealth is much more forgiving and just feels premimum, but the feel off the face of the burner is crazy.
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http://www.leaderboard.com/glossary_trampolineeffect
 
calodo2003 said:
It is very challenging for them to draw the large headed drivers as the club doesn’t allow for it.
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I’ve basically accepted this. I have finally gotten to the point now where I can draw or fade everything in the bag except driver… but I can now hit a nice relatively controlled power fade with it, so that’s what I’m gonna do.
 
I have a major gapping issue just now between 8 and 9 iron. from 20 shots, the average carry for 9 iron was 158 but for the 8 iron is 181.
 
FriedClams said:
I have a major gapping issue just now between 8 and 9 iron. from 20 shots, the average carry for 9 iron was 158 but for the 8 iron is 181.
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Haha, that's enormous varience. What flex do you have on your shafts and what about the ball you use. And you're hitting your 8 longer than tour pros? Something's no adding up.
 
FriedClams said:
I have a major gapping issue just now between 8 and 9 iron. from 20 shots, the average carry for 9 iron was 158 but for the 8 iron is 181.
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What is your typical PW carry (or whatever wedge is immediately after your 9 iron)? Your 7 iron?
 
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