Goalscoring - our biggest/consistent failure over the last 10 years

[Skills]

Number of league goals we've scored in each season post Sir Alex Ferguson:

Season	Manager(s)	Goals Scored	Goals per Game
2013/2014	David Moyes/Ryan Giggs (interim)	64	1.68
2014/2015	Louis van Gaal	62	1.63
2015/2016	Louis van Gaal	49	1.29
2016/2017	José Mourinho	54	1.42
2017/2018	José Mourinho	68	1.79
2018/2019	José Mourinho/Ole Gunnar Solskjær	65	1.71
2019/2020	Ole Gunnar Solskjær	66	1.74
2020/2021	Ole Gunnar Solskjær	73	1.92
2021/2022	Ole Gunnar Solskjær/Ralf Rangnick	57	1.50
2022/2023	Erik Ten Hag	49 in 34 games so far	1.44

Comparison to Liverpool under Klopp:

Season	Goals Scored	Goals per Game
2015/2016*	55 in 30 games under Klopp	1.83
2016/2017	78	2.05
2017/2018	84	2.21
2018/2019	89	2.34
2019/2020	85	2.24
2020/2021	68	1.79
2021/2022	94	2.47
2022/2023	67 in 35 games so far	1.91

It's the one thing he fixed pretty much immediately - got his team scoring a decent number of goals in his partial first season. We've only managed to score at a higher rate than Klopp's worst goalscoring season once in 8 years. Guardiola of course is on a different level entirely :

Season	Goals Scored	Goals per Game
2016/2017	80	2.11
2017/2018	106	2.79
2018/2019	95	2.50
2019/2020	102	2.68
2020/2021	83	2.18
2021/2022	99	2.61
2022/2023	89 in 34 games so far	2.62

We've never even got close to 80 goals since Fergie retired. He managed 83 with Ilkay Gundogan topscoring for him in one of those seasons with 13 goals.

 

[JagUTD]

Funnily enough I've just made a similar point elsewhere. It's our single biggest issue, the reason we drop so many points and the most frustrating thing about the footballing side of this club.

49 goals this season in the league. 10th highest/lowest. This has to be addressed once and for all, whatever it costs, whatever it takes.

Otherwise nothing changes.

Edit - Wasn't there a time when our top scorer was Own Goal?

 

[Adnan]

It is our biggest issue post Fergie and why for some time I've highlighted on this forum about United being a reactive team and not a proactive attacking in that time. Both Guardiola and Klopp took over from managers (Pellegrini & Rodgers) who had coached their Man City and Liverpool teams to score over a 100 goals in the league.

Guardiola and Klopp took that up a notch and created teams that started attacks from the back and defended from the front. The answer to solving this issue is at the back, hence why the likes of Klopp and Guardiola bought goalkeepers to initiate the attack and control the build up phase.

A striker is needed but without having a strong build up phase (GK,CBs,CMs, fullbacks) we won't match those teams due to the control they've exerted from the first phase, which enables those teams to play through the press, raise the defensive line to maintain compactness high up the pitch, which makes the press from the front more effective with a goalkeeper who is ready to sweep up anything between himself and the CBs.

 

[arnie_ni]

It's been bloody shocking. Imagine he didn't get rashford purring until his injury

 

[L1nk]

Maybe i'm having a mind blank but when was the last time properly invested in some good young forwards, all I can remember for the longest time is us investing in short term older players like Ighalo, Ibrahimovic, Cavani, Weghorst, etc.

We've clung onto Martial for far too long too, Lukaku was far too expensive and didn't work out, for some reason we've just continually kept kicking the can down the road. You can argue the Glazers are the problem here, and of course they are, but we've invested (poorly) in other areas where we've barely attempted to try with forwards.

This is why i'm actually pro the signing of players like Hojlund.

 

[Andy_Cole]

It is but I’m not sure why. It’s not really the striker. Maybe this season. But it is the zombie passing,
lack of movement etc.

 

[Cassidy]

We also have not had a quality no 9 in their prime during that time

 

[Smores]

It is our biggest issue post Fergie and why for some time I've highlighted on this forum about United being a reactive team and not a proactive attacking in that time. Both Guardiola and Klopp took over from managers (Pellegrini & Rodgers) who had coached their Man City and Liverpool teams to score over a 100 goals in the league.

Guardiola and Klopp took that up a notch and created teams that started attacks from the back and defended from the front. The answer to solving this issue is at the back, hence why the likes of Klopp and Guardiola bought goalkeepers to initiate the attack and control the build up phase.

A striker is needed but without having a strong build up phase (GK,CBs,CMs, fullbacks) we won't match those teams due to the control they've exerted from the first phase, which enables those teams to play through the press, raise the defensive line to maintain compactness high up the pitch, which makes the press from the front more effective with a goalkeeper who is ready to sweep up anything between himself and the CBs.

Whilst I don't disagree with your general point, in no way is what you describe a pre-requisite for scoring in and around the 2 per game mark. It just isn't.

I'm too lazy to do the stats but i'd love to see the above but with chances and created and conversion rate. Our lack of finishers has been a much bigger issue post Fergie than creating chances in the first place.

 

[JagUTD]

It is our biggest issue post Fergie and why for some time I've highlighted on this forum about United being a reactive team and not a proactive attacking in that time. Both Guardiola and Klopp took over from managers (Pellegrini & Rodgers) who had coached their Man City and Liverpool teams to score over a 100 goals in the league.

Guardiola and Klopp took that up a notch and created teams that started attacks from the back and defended from the front. The answer to solving this issue is at the back, hence why the likes of Klopp and Guardiola bought goalkeepers to initiate the attack and control the build up phase.

A striker is needed but without having a strong build up phase (GK,CBs,CMs, fullbacks) we won't match those teams due to the control they've exerted from the first phase, which enables those teams to play through the press, raise the defensive line to maintain compactness high up the pitch, which makes the press from the front more effective with a goalkeeper who is ready to sweep up anything between himself and the CBs.

We are clearly creating chances now, big chances and rank highly on this regard. We are also missing big chances far to often.

This is a different issue to previous seasons where we couldn't even create chances, let alone be in a position to miss them.

Our lack of a proper goalscorer has become more apparent this season because of the amount of chances we fluff.

 

[Skills]

Whilst I don't disagree with your general point, in no way is what you describe a pre-requisite for scoring in and around the 2 per game mark. It just isn't.

I'm too lazy to do the stats but i'd love to see the above but with chances and created and conversion rate. Our lack of finishers has been a much bigger issue post Fergie than creating chances in the first place.

Yup Klopp's Liverpool were scoring around the 2 per game mark prior to getting Allison and Van Djik. Trent hadn't broken through yet too.

 

[Adnan]

Whilst I don't disagree with your general point, in no way is what you describe a pre-requisite for scoring in and around the 2 per game mark. It just isn't.

I'm too lazy to do the stats but i'd love to see the above but with chances and created and conversion rate. Our lack of finishers has been a much bigger issue post Fergie than creating chances in the first place.

I didn't say it was a prerequisite but the likes of Klopp and Guardiola have won league titles without having a conventional #9. And they've done that by exerting on the ball dominance over the opponent by controlling the build up phase. A striker will help us score more goals but he won't help us to play through the press or raise the defensive line and we'll resort to playing in transition. A goalkeeper, central midfielders, CBs and fullbacks are the key to creating the platform for the forwards to thrive within the principles of play that the current head coach wants to implement.

 

[Irwin99]

That's fecking dire reading. There have been some truly diabolical decisions from the managers and the club in the post SAF era, and for a club with a reputation for attacking football it's a huge failing.

If i remember correctly we went into 15/16 season with just Wayne Rooney and Martial as strikers; Rashford came in towards the end of the season? Then Ole/the club had the idea of going into one season with just Rashford, Martial and Greenwood as recognized strikers, which almost went very badly wrong and we had to loan in Igalho.

This season has been another one to add to the collection. Thank feck for Rashford's goals.

 

[Parma Dewol]

I don’t suppose someone has the resources to compare chances created or XG? This season in particular I get the impression we should have scored a lot more, but are nowhere near clinical enough.

 

[arnie_ni]

I don’t suppose someone has the resources to compare chances created or XG? This season in possibility I get the impression we should have scored a lot more, but are nowhere near clinical enough.

Well Bruno is no.1 in big chances created. Sky or bt showed the stat in one of our recent games

 

[Yagami]

The best period was when we had the trio of Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, and it's no coincidence or luck. We looked so much better with those three spearheading our attack because - when they were in form - they could all dribble which opened up teams, could all shield the ball under pressure which allowed us to sustain attacks and pressure in the oppositions 3rd, could all interchange which, again, opened up teams as their movement pulled the opposition out of areas.

The problem then was the lack of progressive coaching on Ole's part, and the rest of the team behind those three. If we had those three in the form they were in that season under ten Hag, and ahead of our first choice XI this season, I think it would've easily have been our best goalscoring season post Fergie.

It is not rocket science. Get strong, press resistant players and you will naturally produce good stuff. A top coach on top of that (which hopefully ten Hag will turn out to be) is the combination needed to compete at the top. I just hope we get said players in the summer!

 

[Revan]

Number 9 is historically the most important (or second most after No. 10) position in the pitch. We have signed 2 No.9 younger than 30 since SAF left: Lukaku and Martial.

 

[Solius]

It is a bit mental that relegation threatened Everton are even managing to score 5 in a game and the last time we did that was against Leeds in August 2021.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

I don’t suppose someone has the resources to compare chances created or XG? This season in particular I get the impression we should have scored a lot more, but are nowhere near clinical enough.

xG per game is on par (it was slightly better up until the LC final, now it's slightly worse) with Solskjaer's 2019-20 season.

 

[Bubz27]

Whilst I don't disagree with your general point, in no way is what you describe a pre-requisite for scoring in and around the 2 per game mark. It just isn't.

I'm too lazy to do the stats but i'd love to see the above but with chances and created and conversion rate. Our lack of finishers has been a much bigger issue post Fergie than creating chances in the first place.

Just check out the xG and the number of actual goals scored. Not a hard stat to look up.

 

[Abraxas]

It seems to be a problem in all aspects of the game at the moment.

The ball progression is not good. It's too likely to break down at various points. Casemiro and even Eriksen are giving it away more than I'd like. That's before it even gets to the likes of Rashford and Bruno that play high risk football.

Then there's the striker problem. There is absolutely zero point overlapping or putting a cross in because nobody is in the box. Martial and Weghorst don't appear interested in scoring goals. Our outlet to scoring a goal is work the ball into Rashford in space, hope he cuts in and scores. How can a team have no threat from any type of cross from a dangerous position? Ridiculous. We have to be so precise it's just silly.

 

[Hughes35]

I think under Moyes LVG and Jose the football was just so slow and negative. Under ETH I feel he's trying to play the right way but you just can't do it with Wout or Martial.

I genuinely feel if we get a top striker (Kane), we will be right back up there. He would score, defenders pay him more attention, creates more space for other..... the goals cycle.

 

[dove]

Yea, this is some proper mid table stuff and is obviously not surprising to anyone watching our games. I don’t think we have improved at all in that area with ETH to be honest and the stats confirm that. It’s a result of a lot of things- our build up play being crap, players being selfish choosing to shoot from ridiculous angles or from miles out instead of passing to someone in a better position, and having to constantly carry some passengers in the team who contribute close to nothing in attack (Antony, Sancho, Weghorst).

It’s just bizarre really when you see teams like Fulham or Brentford outscoring us, surely they don’t have better players…

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

It is a bit mental that relegation threatened Everton are even managing to score 5 in a game and the last time we did that was against Leeds in August 2021.

Solskjaer is the only manager who's managed us scoring 5 or more since Ferguson. Shocking that, adds to the concern of the OP

 

[Gazza]

Part of it is that, whereas Fergie tended to buy strikers in the prime of their career or approaching it, we've tended to buy/develop potential (Martial, Rashford, Greenwood) or past their prime (Zlatan, Cavani, Sanchez, Falcao, Ronaldo). The exception being Lukaku. Despite the amount of money we have spent in transfer fees, we've only really spent big money on Martial and Lukaku when it comes to strikers, and only once on a player who could be considered to be in peak goalscoring years. Striker was the one position Fergie wouldn't skimp on, and he wasn't afraid to buy more strikers if he felt we needed them, even if we already had several on the books.

 

[Demon Barber]

I don’t suppose someone has the resources to compare chances created or XG? This season in particular I get the impression we should have scored a lot more, but are nowhere near clinical enough.

I read recently that we are 16th in the league for chances created converted to goals (I cannot remember the source, but probably The Guardian)

This would indicate that we are creating enough chances but our finishing has been woeful. A proven striker is an absolute priority ... along with many other issues that have already been mentioned.

 

[redshaw]

Yes I've mentioned it a few times over the years how we're stuck on 50-60 goals per season, LVG was the most galling. 2013 we had 86. 75-90 is a good tally to be up there.

Our best post Fergie year we had Bruno Rashford, Greenwood, Cavani scoring well.

A top striker will obviously help but we've seen other players missing a lot of chances and while we can say Weghorst is shit, he was still getting a goal every other game in Turkey, scored well in Germany, yes I know those leagues are jokes to some of you but the type of football we play is very limited right now and he should be picking up balls and having more opportunities. Case for the little time he is in the box is looking more a threat than our attackers costing hundreds of millions.

If Kane comes and he and Rashford get about 20 each in the league where does the other 60 goals come from that City get without a striker? A lot more is needed from the Keeper, the fullbacks and so on

We had Aston Villa come to OT recently and they played a very high line, we kept getting past it easily but made it very difficult for ourselves to actually benefit. We only won that game 1-0 yet it could've been so much more with very straightforward attacking that a Fergie team would've blasted them with. We made an easy job very difficult with only a last ditch stretch from Bruno saving the day. Comical really.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

It is our biggest issue post Fergie and why for some time I've highlighted on this forum about United being a reactive team and not a proactive attacking in that time. Both Guardiola and Klopp took over from managers (Pellegrini & Rodgers) who had coached their Man City and Liverpool teams to score over a 100 goals in the league.

Guardiola and Klopp took that up a notch and created teams that started attacks from the back and defended from the front. The answer to solving this issue is at the back, hence why the likes of Klopp and Guardiola bought goalkeepers to initiate the attack and control the build up phase.

A striker is needed but without having a strong build up phase (GK,CBs,CMs, fullbacks) we won't match those teams due to the control they've exerted from the first phase, which enables those teams to play through the press, raise the defensive line to maintain compactness high up the pitch, which makes the press from the front more effective with a goalkeeper who is ready to sweep up anything between himself and the CBs.

Again agree.

We need to address both.

If we sign Kane and don't get a better GK, we'll definitely score more goals, but the overall ceiling of the team will still be limited. We can't have him feed off scraps in certain games.

We need to exert greater control on the pitch to pin teams back and then carve out more openings for our attackers.

 

[Rozay]

It’s for a number of reasons. Firstly, the ‘traditions’ of our football have been dated for a while and we are only now starting to modernise them. What created loads of chances once upon a time probably stopped working long ago, and it took us quite a while to modernise, which I think we are starting to do now.

Other than that there’s also been personnel. Poor finishers. And then poor luck at times.

Under Mourinho I think it was, we went through the ‘longest unbeaten run in Europe’ yet sat outside the top 4 and drew every game. We were drawing 1-1 to everyone.

 

[edcunited1878]

But once United sign a ballplaying GK, all will be okay?

But seriously, there are only so many elite tradtional 9s available, where sharing the goal scoring load and creating chances is spread across multiple players for majority of teams.

United had been so poor and neglected this for so long. Greenwood's situation doesn't help at all, but even then, he had a large learning curve of being a more well-rounded player when it came to passing and linking up the play.

Marcus has always been shoot first, shoot second. Greenwood was the same way. Cavani was a strong CF who preferred scoring first. Ronaldo was scoring only. Martial is not fit nor dynamic enough any more to be the all around player he once showed he was with passing, link up, and scoring. Antony we still don't know what he's capable of doing, but he's made some horrible decisions when it comes to head up and passing to his teammates in the box or into space.

You just need to list the forward lines of the past 10 league winners and see how far behind United are in terms of goal scoring and chance creation, it's dire.

 

[Adnan]

Again agree.

We need to address both.

If we sign Kane and don't get a better GK, we'll definitely score more goals, but the overall ceiling of the team will still be limited. We can't have him feed off scraps in certain games.

We need to exert greater control on the pitch to pin teams back and then carve out more openings for our attackers.

The deeper we're, the higher technical level has to be due to how dangerous loss of possession is in our defensive third. So the goalkeeper is just the start and the CBs, deeper mids and fullbacks also need to provide a high level of touch and technique, which will then correlate to on the ball domination. And if we can then add a striker who fits the bill, I believe we'll score a lot of goals.

 

[Marcelinho87]

When trouble kicks in our team reverts to pissing about with it down the left side trying to walk it into the box only to lose it.

Then one of Rashford or Bruno try from 30+ yards in frustration.

Our team for whatever reason lacks intelligence around the box and tries the same predictable moves over and over.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

The deeper we're, the higher technical level has to be due to how dangerous loss of possession is in our defensive third. So the goalkeeper is just the start and the CBs, deeper mids and fullbacks also need to provide a high level of touch and technique, which will then correlate to on the ball domination. And if we can then add a striker who fits the bill, I believe we'll score a lot of goals.

We need a better RB too, because we all know of AWB's limitations, but I'm not a big Dalot fan.

Also think if Casemiro stays, Ten Hag should push him higher up in our build-up phase. We need a more metronomic midfielder that drops deepest.

 

[Adnan]

We need a better RB too, because we all know of AWB's limitations, but I'm not a big Dalot fan.

Also think if Casemiro stays, Ten Hag should push him higher up in our build-up phase. We need a more metronomic midfielder that drops deepest.

Completely agree.

 

[Nicolarra90]

The best period was when we had the trio of Rashford, Martial, Greenwood...

It was still shite. It has been shite since 12/13, the last time we had a world class goalscorer in his prime.

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

Take last Sunday's game v West Ham as a case in point. We got into very promising attacking positions in the first 20 minutes but our shot decision and execution was, as usual, terrible. I counted 7 or 8 shots on goal, all off target, from a combination of Rashford, Bruno, Antony and Eriksen in that time. And then we were inevitably punished with de Gea's cock-up.

It's been a recurring theme of our season. Antony is particularly guilty of shooting from stupid positions when there's a better pass on to a teammate. So he either doesn't see them, in which case he doesn't have the vision to play at the highest level, or he chooses to ignore them and Erik is just letting him carry on with it for some unknown reason.

Rashford's goalscoring form has dipped and when that happens I find he gets more desperate with some of his goal attempts, shooting from improbable positions also, or else he's trying to be superman taking on too many defenders and losing possession cheaply when there's a better opportunity to develop the attack.

And as we all know, Bruno is also fond of going for a Hollywood goal. I just know when he has the blinkers on and he's not going to pass. We should expect better from him because he has the vision to play the right pass, but he does it so often maybe he just can't help it. That last shot v WH when he blasted over with his left foot perfectly summed it up. I knew he wasn't going to whip in the cross, the blinkers were on!

 

[Belisarius]

Number of league goals we've scored in each season post Sir Alex Ferguson:

Season	Manager(s)	Goals Scored	Goals per Game
2013/2014	David Moyes/Ryan Giggs (interim)	64	1.68
2014/2015	Louis van Gaal	62	1.63
2015/2016	Louis van Gaal	49	1.29
2016/2017	José Mourinho	54	1.42
2017/2018	José Mourinho	68	1.79
2018/2019	José Mourinho/Ole Gunnar Solskjær	65	1.71
2019/2020	Ole Gunnar Solskjær	66	1.74
2020/2021	Ole Gunnar Solskjær	73	1.92
2021/2022	Ole Gunnar Solskjær/Ralf Rangnick	57	1.50
2022/2023	Erik Ten Hag	49 in 34 games so far	1.44

Not a surprise that our two highest scoring seasons were the two seasons we finished in second place.

 

[Raoul]

Number of league goals we've scored in each season post Sir Alex Ferguson:

Season	Manager(s)	Goals Scored	Goals per Game
2013/2014	David Moyes/Ryan Giggs (interim)	64	1.68
2014/2015	Louis van Gaal	62	1.63
2015/2016	Louis van Gaal	49	1.29
2016/2017	José Mourinho	54	1.42
2017/2018	José Mourinho	68	1.79
2018/2019	José Mourinho/Ole Gunnar Solskjær	65	1.71
2019/2020	Ole Gunnar Solskjær	66	1.74
2020/2021	Ole Gunnar Solskjær	73	1.92
2021/2022	Ole Gunnar Solskjær/Ralf Rangnick	57	1.50
2022/2023	Erik Ten Hag	49 in 34 games so far	1.44

Comparison to Liverpool under Klopp:

Season	Goals Scored	Goals per Game
2015/2016*	55 in 30 games under Klopp	1.83
2016/2017	78	2.05
2017/2018	84	2.21
2018/2019	89	2.34
2019/2020	85	2.24
2020/2021	68	1.79
2021/2022	94	2.47
2022/2023	67 in 35 games so far	1.91

It's the one thing he fixed pretty much immediately - got his team scoring a decent number of goals in his partial first season. We've only managed to score at a higher rate than Klopp's worst goalscoring season once in 8 years. Guardiola of course is on a different level entirely :

Season	Goals Scored	Goals per Game
2016/2017	80	2.11
2017/2018	106	2.79
2018/2019	95	2.50
2019/2020	102	2.68
2020/2021	83	2.18
2021/2022	99	2.61
2022/2023	89 in 34 games so far	2.62

We've never even got close to 80 goals since Fergie retired. He managed 83 with Ilkay Gundogan topscoring for him in one of those seasons with 13 goals.

And it won't change until we buy a proper striker.

 

[Partridge]

It is but I’m not sure why. It’s not really the striker. Maybe this season. But it is the zombie passing,
lack of movement etc.

It's exactly that..we've shown we can do it, pass and move, hence creating, but we've stopped doing it. Mostly, it's one jogging and the obvious guy doin the obvious. Infuriating.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Made a similar thread to this last year and nothing has changed. You can’t compete for the league scoring that few goals. Until we start scoring more than 2 a game average then we can forget about a title challenge.

 

[Yagami]

It was still shite. It has been shite since 12/13, the last time we had a world class goalscorer in his prime.

I personally preferred it to the 12/13 attack. Our attack then didn't really have any cohesion. It was just get the ball to van Persie. A bit random but I thought our best 4 that season was Welbeck, Rooney, Kagawa & van Persie in terms of balance and link-up play, and I believe we only started two games with them. Real Madrid away and Southampton at home.

If you remember, both Rashford and Martial missed a good chunk of games through injury that season. If they had played more, that threesome would've probably had that United team scoring nearly as much or even more than the 12/13 one.