Glazers / Woodward out! (One down)

Honest question: Are the Glazers just a bit dim?

If they're in it for money, which we all assume, why are they happy to let inexperienced people run the club into the ground? Surely the smart thing for them would have been, years ago, to get a world class football director who could find hidden gems and allow us to be competitive on the relative cheap?

I don't understand how they've overseen a billion pounds of transfer spending, which has resulted in pretty much sweet F.A. and they're still not making real changes to the management of the company.

We hear stuff from the papers that they scrutinise everything at the club. Even spending on repairing the swimming pool at Carrington. If that's true I can only conclude that they're just not the clearest thinkers. Cos there are so many ways Man Utd could be run better and more profitably that they've just ignored. I know when Sir Alex was here there was someone to just do it all for them. But c'mon they've had 10 years to figure it out. Is it really so hard to look at what's happened at City and think: 'Hmm, maybe we need to do what they did and hire an experienced CEO and experienced Football Director?'
It's partly strange and partly explainable. The sheer scale of sporting incompetence over a sustained period is quite remarkable. You would think the feedback they are getting from their own decision making at some stage would compel them to do things differently. Christ, you would also think by sheer luck they may land upon decisions within the structure of the club that are good. Yet it never happens.

I think it was really Daddy that was responsible for where they are. He was probably the man that really made things happen for the family. They're reaping the rewards, but they don't necessarily have the acumen.

I also think a bit of it comes down to how they view this club. They don't look at it like we do. To them, it's about just doing enough to secure revenue streams, that will allow them to withdraw cash and service the debt to keep them in the game. It's about the natural growth of football, and club's valuation. It really is just milking an asset until the time is right. When you see it through that particular lens, and you realise that despite everything that has gone wrong on the sporting side, that it has still been a miraculous commercial success, it makes a lot more sense. In their eyes there is nothing broken to fix.

Would they prefer the asset to be doing well? I would imagine so, there is no conceivable reason why not as it is leaving some revenue on the table. But clearly the draw is not enough for them to forgo having their own men, or being challenged by the sporting structure, or making personal financial sacrifice.
 
The club needs a month long protests that don't stop IMO if they want to get rid of the Glazers with tickets not being bought to see games
 
But there really is a chance that income might be going down now. No business will attract sponsors when it fails in its core operation. United has been able to attract sponsors because the hope to compete has never faded away. But now, after a massive failure like this window in addition to fan unrest, the sponsor income may be going down. If that happens, the value of asset will keep going down. So they may think it is better to sell.
Heard teamviewer have already said they have ruled out renewing given the negative effect the deal had on their share price. These things catch on. Also tv money is drying up. They’re either gonna start looking to sell, or we really are stuck with them taking dividends and letting us decline for the foreseeable. In which case, time to make some trips to Florida
 
I think the Glaziers are underestimating the backlash from fans if the fans can't see positivity to cling on to sometimes within the season.
 
Heard teamviewer have already said they have ruled out renewing given the negative effect the deal had on their share price. These things catch on. Also tv money is drying up. They’re either gonna start looking to sell, or we really are stuck with them taking dividends and letting us decline for the foreseeable. In which case, time to make some trips to Florida

That's a bit of the tail wagging the dog, Teamviewer shares didn't really drop until a solid 6 months after the sponsorship, which was a last gasp attempt to shore up their own terrible image of being the tool of choice for scam call centers. And the fact it didn't help at all means, they shouldn't really burn funds on glossy sponsorships that don't matter.
 
It's partly strange and partly explainable. The sheer scale of sporting incompetence over a sustained period is quite remarkable. You would think the feedback they are getting from their own decision making at some stage would compel them to do things differently. Christ, you would also think by sheer luck they may land upon decisions within the structure of the club that are good. Yet it never happens.

I think it was really Daddy that was responsible for where they are. He was probably the man that really made things happen for the family. They're reaping the rewards, but they don't necessarily have the acumen.

I also think a bit of it comes down to how they view this club. They don't look at it like we do. To them, it's about just doing enough to secure revenue streams, that will allow them to withdraw cash and service the debt to keep them in the game. It's about the natural growth of football, and club's valuation. It really is just milking an asset until the time is right. When you see it through that particular lens, and you realise that despite everything that has gone wrong on the sporting side, that it has still been a miraculous commercial success, it makes a lot more sense. In their eyes there is nothing broken to fix.

Would they prefer the asset to be doing well? I would imagine so, there is no conceivable reason why not as it is leaving some revenue on the table. But clearly the draw is not enough for them to forgo having their own men, or being challenged by the sporting structure, or making personal financial sacrifice.
This is as good an analysis as any and any one who has average intelligence with reasonable management experience can see this organisation is badly run. Not that it has incompetent people, but fundamentally the culture is all wrong. Culture can mean a lot of things to people but for United, the whole enterprise is about share price, dividends and ultimately value of the asset if when when the Glazers decide to sell. Footballing success to them is not the same as to to the supporter. So you are right, they will pour in enough money to keep the club hovering around top 4, but no further than that.

What is interesting in the medium run is how the club will perform over the next two years. If they continue to struggle to make it into the CL, meaning the Glazers will have to spend on a large budget then they’d ideally like, with quality sponsors dwindling (see Teamview not renewing etc.) and share price dropping, then I think we will see more of a chance for the Glazers to cash in.

From a management and operational standpoint, you can change out as many executives as you like but the common denominator of these fallow years is the Glazers, and the culture they have instilled in the organisation.
 
Does anyone have Murtough and Arnold’s address? My friend is asking.
 
i do wonder if things are changing now. Like previously most people disliked the owners but supported the players. Now more and more fans seem to dislike the team as well as the owners so surely that will start to cause issues. I feel like the owners are a mixture of incompetent and arrogant. The latter makes them believe they will never give up and they can fix it but their lack of any knowledge or experience means they can’t. It’s a dangerous mix.

Do feel really annoyed about it all and can’t see how things can get better no matter who the manager is. Also feel like it’s such a travesty that they were able to buy the club this way. Seems like the original sin is just allowed to persist because ‘it was allowed at the time’.
Seems like the only way out of this is if someone needs to get out of the club cause of an expensive divorce settlement. Seems to work this way half the time
 
United are nothing more than a pure lifestyle business to the owners, and until that changes (which obviously it won’t) then neither will their behaviour.

I spend all my time supporting the growth of the top 100 SME businesses in the UK, and some of that time is taken highlighting how much an owner/CEO’s personal future plan affects everything that filters down through their staff, from culture to bottom line financial delivery. If that owner has either no long term desire for the business to make an economic difference, or innovative disruption, or they are using it as a cash cow, then all this will become blazingly apparent to anyone with half an eye on outputs.

That’s why it glaringly obvious at the club. This isn’t their baby, this isn’t their passion, and although you can absolutely say that about most football club owners, the majority of those individuals have enough business acumen to understand where their own weaknesses and blind spots lie, and have the ability to build a strong team around them to fill those skill gaps. Our owners, unfortunately, have none of this. They will milk the cow in the only way they know, until the udders are dry, or it’s in any other way untenable. Anyone who does not risk a commitment of their own funds to purchase at the outset, has set the stall out clearly as to how they will act once they are in charge of the ship. None of this has ever been their money, from their wallet, at their personal risk and they will continue to act accordingly, they know no other way.
 
What would be the most effective way of getting rid of the Glazers as owners?

That's a poll worthy thread for protestors to get organised.
 
It's partly strange and partly explainable. The sheer scale of sporting incompetence over a sustained period is quite remarkable. You would think the feedback they are getting from their own decision making at some stage would compel them to do things differently. Christ, you would also think by sheer luck they may land upon decisions within the structure of the club that are good. Yet it never happens.

I think it was really Daddy that was responsible for where they are. He was probably the man that really made things happen for the family. They're reaping the rewards, but they don't necessarily have the acumen.

I also think a bit of it comes down to how they view this club. They don't look at it like we do. To them, it's about just doing enough to secure revenue streams, that will allow them to withdraw cash and service the debt to keep them in the game. It's about the natural growth of football, and club's valuation. It really is just milking an asset until the time is right. When you see it through that particular lens, and you realise that despite everything that has gone wrong on the sporting side, that it has still been a miraculous commercial success, it makes a lot more sense. In their eyes there is nothing broken to fix.

Would they prefer the asset to be doing well? I would imagine so, there is no conceivable reason why not as it is leaving some revenue on the table. But clearly the draw is not enough for them to forgo having their own men, or being challenged by the sporting structure, or making personal financial sacrifice.

I guess this is it. They're absentee landlords and as long as they get their rent they couldn't give a crap if their tenements are falling apart. There's still enough 'fat' for them to get a dividend every year. So, from their perspective, nothing is wrong. The business would have to get to the point of pure catastrophe, where there's not even enough juice to squeeze their annual £20m out, for them to pay attention to it.

This is as good an analysis as any and any one who has average intelligence with reasonable management experience can see this organisation is badly run. Not that it has incompetent people, but fundamentally the culture is all wrong. Culture can mean a lot of things to people but for United, the whole enterprise is about share price, dividends and ultimately value of the asset if when when the Glazers decide to sell. Footballing success to them is not the same as to to the supporter. So you are right, they will pour in enough money to keep the club hovering around top 4, but no further than that.

What is interesting in the medium run is how the club will perform over the next two years. If they continue to struggle to make it into the CL, meaning the Glazers will have to spend on a large budget then they’d ideally like, with quality sponsors dwindling (see Teamview not renewing etc.) and share price dropping, then I think we will see more of a chance for the Glazers to cash in.

From a management and operational standpoint, you can change out as many executives as you like but the common denominator of these fallow years is the Glazers, and the culture they have instilled in the organisation.

I don't agree that its about the share price, for the main reason that the value of share price has been a humungous disappointment since the float. United hasn't even been able to keep up with index average. In the eyes of the market Man Utd is a stagnating/declining company, which is entirely accurate. You don't have to be a sports expert to look at the financials, the failure at core activities and think: This business is going nowhere good.

However, where I think you may be right is that ultimately its about the dividends. My fear is that the Glazers will not sell. They will just cut their cloth differently, decide that a smaller dividend is still enough to fund their lifestyles and start really pulling back on investment.

My reading of it is the Glazers will pursue the Silent Stan strategy like Kronke has at Arsenal. Kronke no longer even pretends that he's trying to get Arsenal to challenge for the title, finishing outside the top four is no longer a sackable offence for Arsenal coaches. Expectations have been totally reset. I'm sure the Glazers would like to get in the top four because of the Champions League revenue, I'm sure they'd like to win the title cos it would attract bigger sponsors. However, if they re-baseline and decide actually we're happy taking £10m-£15m out every year rather than £20m, they could decide they're quite happy to oversee a team that regularly finishes somewhere in the top half. As you say, their main concern is there being enough left over to take some money out. There's plenty of ways they can do that without even ever coming close to winning the title again.

United are nothing more than a pure lifestyle business to the owners, and until that changes (which obviously it won’t) then neither will their behaviour.

I spend all my time supporting the growth of the top 100 SME businesses in the UK, and some of that time is taken highlighting how much an owner/CEO’s personal future plan affects everything that filters down through their staff, from culture to bottom line financial delivery. If that owner has either no long term desire for the business to make an economic difference, or innovative disruption, or they are using it as a cash cow, then all this will become blazingly apparent to anyone with half an eye on outputs.

That’s why it glaringly obvious at the club. This isn’t their baby, this isn’t their passion, and although you can absolutely say that about most football club owners, the majority of those individuals have enough business acumen to understand where their own weaknesses and blind spots lie, and have the ability to build a strong team around them to fill those skill gaps. Our owners, unfortunately, have none of this. They will milk the cow in the only way they know, until the udders are dry, or it’s in any other way untenable. Anyone who does not risk a commitment of their own funds to purchase at the outset, has set the stall out clearly as to how they will act once they are in charge of the ship. None of this has ever been their money, from their wallet, at their personal risk and they will continue to act accordingly, they know no other way.

Hard to disagree with this.
 
Whole things a joke, the transfer market again. Missing out on Sesko because United have 2 meetings and monitor the situation. United need to approach the market with intent and place bids early, I think previous players that haven't gone to United have commented how disorganised it is.

The Glazers and the hierachy needs to just be gutted, I know major changes happened recently but, the owners have to go and the club needs to go to football people that want to win trophies. I'd rather have had the Saudis than the Glazers.
 
Can't make them sell the club. There's not enough protestors to make that happen.

Honestly needs a month long of protests and people not buying tickets to games en-masse which would take coordination but people going to the stadiums won't stop going.

They're "supporting the team" not the Glazers, but the Glazers will remain happy, they can walk away with $4bn+ and they still aren't happy to sell.

Worst part in all of this, Chelsea under Todd Boehly have done more in one transfer window building a squad than the Glazers have done in the last 10 years.
 
Honestly needs a month long of protests and people not buying tickets to games en-masse which would take coordination but people going to the stadiums won't stop going.

They're "supporting the team" not the Glazers, but the Glazers will remain happy, they can walk away with $4bn+ and they still aren't happy to sell.

Worst part in all of this, Chelsea under Todd Boehly have done more in one transfer window building a squad than the Glazers have done in the last 10 years.

The tickets are pre sold at the start of the season so that's not realistically going to happen. Sit outs and petitions are one option but with social media now the power of trending hashtags is probably the most effective way of outing the Glazers.

#glazersout
 
What would be the most effective way of getting rid of the Glazers as owners?

That's a poll worthy thread for protestors to get organised.
Continuous Liverpool style protest in every home game till they jog off.
 
Does anyone have Murtough and Arnold’s address? My friend is asking.

Why, as it did feck all showing up at Ed's door, what we need is the supporters in the USA to get their bloody finger out as they have the power. Right here it is.

Fact 1, owners paid millions to Trump's 2016 run, so you'll even get non utd fans on board and start showing up at THEIR gaff and when they do venture out take that nutcase maxine waters advice, get up in their faces, as waters and the rest of the dems will see you get no charge sheet, a reward and a free pass to disneyland, no the real one not OT,

Fact 2, do you really think they give a monkey's about fans showing up at those 2 addresses your mate wants ? While one hand it's stuffing the steak in their mouth while the other hand tosses off to brady reruns
 
Continuous Liverpool style protest in every home game till they jog off.
I just cannot emphasize enough about the need to do the very exact same thing. Either United fans starting with the main base in Greater Manchester show that they have the balls to do so or they will just crawl like cowards in front of the ugly motherfeckers.
 
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A parasitic relationship is one in which one organism, the parasite, lives off of another organism, the host, harming it and possibly causing death. The parasite lives on or in the body of the host. A few examples of parasites are tapeworms, fleas, and the Glazers.
 
Surely there’s someone there ready to buy United, if a club comes in for a player they usually put a bid in if rejected they will increase it in most cases and get there man
Can this not be the case with the club someone/consortium who’s a big Utd/ football fan put a bid in and test there resolve
It’s clear they are only interested in money and being rich
 
Surely there’s someone there ready to buy United, if a club comes in for a player they usually put a bid in if rejected they will increase it in most cases and get there man
Can this not be the case with the club someone/consortium who’s a big Utd/ football fan put a bid in and test there resolve
It’s clear they are only interested in money and being rich

Therein is the answer to your own question. It's going to take an obscene offer to get the Glazers out. If the club is worth $4.6b, it'd probably be something north of $6b to get rid.
 
Surely there’s someone there ready to buy United, if a club comes in for a player they usually put a bid in if rejected they will increase it in most cases and get there man
Can this not be the case with the club someone/consortium who’s a big Utd/ football fan put a bid in and test there resolve
It’s clear they are only interested in money and being rich

There are buyers, just not at the insane price the parasites are asking. They've effectively priced the club out of the market. They will ask upwards of 5b. And the club is half a billion in debt. And needs massive investment. The total cost over time could perhaps reach 7b.
 
I think the Glaziers are underestimating the backlash from fans if the fans can't see positivity to cling on to sometimes within the season.
We’ve had a game abondoned . And nothing has changed
 
I genuinely can't believe another transfer window of no plan. Looking at Gakpo now days into the season start, United should have identified what they needed at the very start and agreed terms, absolute shambles.
 
I was this little documentary not long ago about the man arguably known as the worst NFL owner ever, Hugh Culverhouse. The Glazers bought the Buccaneers years after his death, but, holy fecking shit, the uncanny resemblances between Culverhouse in Tampa and the Glazer children with United are something else.



I swear that I would have done such documentary on the Glazers with the same harsh language if I had Tree's storytelling skills.
 
Somebody, anybody HELP (yes I am quoting Simba when Mufasa dies because that desperate)
 
Ignite social and media outrage, boycott matches (and I don't mean just walking out, prevent them from even happening in the first place). They'll sell the club in less than a month. And it needs to be done because these parasites are never going to leave on their own. It's their biggest cash cow and they don't even have to move a finger with all these PL and Super League deals coming through.
 
Ignite social and media outrage, boycott matches (and I don't mean just walking out, prevent them from even happening in the first place). They'll sell the club in less than a month. And it needs to be done because these parasites are never going to leave on their own. It's their biggest cash cow and they don't even have to move a finger with all these PL and Super League deals coming through.

Yeah we need to stop worrying about the media reporting hostile protests as a bad thing, clearly it made us take a step back after the way we got reported. That should have never happened we need to show a stronger resolve.
 
We need more protests in their home town thats the only way we can embarrass them enough to hope they sell up. However a long shot it would be.

I don’t think they will sell until some form of ESL (closed group) is formed even then they would only sell for a crazy amount. As much as Id love it if Jim Ratcliffe bought them out, I don’t think him getting to the position he’s in came about by over paying for things which is what the leeches would have him do should he want the club.

We need a much more vocal group to come out and demand they sell up or pay the debt off. I think that may be a way for them to look for a sell (having to pay the debt off)
 
Does anyone have Murtough and Arnold’s address? My friend is asking.
I hope its close to a pub. A good Guinness would do well to clear out the cobwebs. Hell it might even make them put in a bid for Messi.