YEEEEES!
German Football 22/23 | 2. Bundesliga returns | Hamburg vs Schalke 20:30 |
- Thread starter do.ob
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Wonderful moment for Modeste, hasn't had a good start at Dortmund and after that miss you could see the knives being sharpened again. Redemption goal for him.
Couldn't watch much of the match but the comeback from Dortmund was great, deserved. Moukoko's goal was well taken too.
Couldn't watch much of the match but the comeback from Dortmund was great, deserved. Moukoko's goal was well taken too.
feck this...
But it's a fair result to be honest.
But it's a fair result to be honest.
Man of the match: Deniz Aytekin
I simply love when Bayern fans of all people start complaining about refs
At least Dortmund fans don't have a reason to whine about the referee today.
Hopefully we'll never see Pavard as a CB again. Bad positioning for both goals.
Would be curious to hear what Bellingham has to say about him
Turns out we're still pretty shit, after Leverkusen in disarray and overwhelmed Viktoria Plzeň papered over the cracks. Especially in the Leverkusen game I felt that an even slightly more competent attack would have hurt us, and now here we are.
The injuries of Davies and de Ligt were crucial. Stanisic had to play on the wrong side and couldn't control the quick Adeyemi. Davies wouldn't have had these problems.
I usually don't like to talk about the ref. But letting Bellingham continue but sent off Coman with a second yellow is at least debatable.
Otherwise the second half was very dominant and Dortmund didn't even get close to the goal until their first goal. It came out of nothing.
Still not that bothered. 2nd match we lose a lead with the last kick. Better now than later in the season.
To be fair, I couldn't watch today's match 
Wer schießt ganz am Ende ziemlich fest?
Anthony Modeste?
:focal(1256x576:1258x574)/origin-imgresizer.eurosport.com/2016/05/21/1859242-39182031-2560-1440.jpg)
I've only seen the highlights but it is me that the player's reactions (on both sides) or lack of towards the bookings seems quite tame and 'respectful' especially for a big game like this? I.e They're not charging, surrounding and screaming in his face etc.
Is that a Bundesliga thing? Seems way more disciplined that we would see in the Premier League games.
Depends a bit on the referee. Aytekin is generally respected and a ref where you can quickly be send off if you do it too much.
What happened?
Bellingham (unintentionally) kicked Davies in the face while going for the ball. In a vacuum that would most likely have been a yellow card (in this case his second of the match), but in the ref's own words he showed leniency, because Bellingham didn't see him coming and Davies (supposedly) had his head low. He also admitted that the first card against Bellingham was (too) harsh, because he wanted to calm down the game. So he didn't want to send him off so early as a consequence of his "vibe carding".
I watched the game at the stadium, so I didn't have the TV angles beyond what's shown in the highlights, but the refereeing seemed to be all over the place - harsh card against Bellingham to establish dominance, but then Goretzka get's a high five after two incidents and then of course the aforementioned leniency on Bellingham's foul against Davies. Then later he sends Coman off for some shirt pulling midfield, but keeps Sane on for what looked like a red card offense (haven't seen the replays of it, so I might be wrong).
Aside from that a premium reaction gif was born yesterday:
I saw the Bellingham yellow, it was a clean tackle and no need for a card. Typical Bayern twats surrounding the ref immediately.
This appears to be Bayern's CEO complaining about a referee on Twitter? Is it possible?
This appears to be Bayern's CEO complaining about a referee on Twitter? Is it possible?
Definitely unnecessary/idiotic from Kahn but Aytekin set himself up for this with his explanation for not sending Bellingham off.
So Bayern have only won one of the last six matches in the league (1W 4D 1L) and Dortmund hasn't crumbled against Bayern...
Still early days and Dortmund hasn't a great season as well, but somehow this season feels much more interesting than the last seasons did.
Still early days and Dortmund hasn't a great season as well, but somehow this season feels much more interesting than the last seasons did.
Didn't think Bellingham should've gotten a second yellow, he was going for the ball and Davies lowered his head as well so it wasn't as if Bellingham had his foot in a very dangerous position. Can understand the refs decision.
I personally think that Bellingham being on a (singular) yellow card after the first half was the correct outcome, Aytekin just messed up how things arrived there, by first giving Bellingham a stupid card and then he had to keep the card to himself in the second incident to balance things out. Though I can understand why Bayern's officials only look at the second incident and when the ref messes up it's only fair to criticize them for it. Aytekin should referee what's in front of him, not hand out or withhold cards based on what vibe the game is having.
But I also remember the annual "if you criticize the ref it's weak mentality and it means you don't analyze your own mistakes"-posts from this fixture.
I think (similar to Terzic's first tenure) Dortmund have gotten a bit tougher mentally in these one-off games. The team was pretty close to beating City away and all four goals conceded in those two fixtures seemed avoidable, if the club hadn't signed a backup keeper from the second division. But I think the table being close is much more Bayern's weakness than Dortmund's strength.
I mean let's be honest: the first half was straight up pathetic by Bayern's standards, no shot from within the box, little control over the game, Dortmund got into the attacking third plenty of times - they just don't have the attacking quality to make it count at the moment. I think two "saveable" long shot goals and Dortmund faltering a bit after the second goal made this look a lot better than it really was, but even then Bayern didn't hit the KO punch against a reeling opponent and got brute forced into dropping a two goal lead eventually.
I still think Dortmund will need a small miracle to get through the pre-world cup fixtures without another injury crisis, with Dahoud's injury CM is already a designated breaking point, and even then the team needs some individual development steps from attacking players like Malen, Adeyemi and Moukoko (3G2A in 264 minutes, #midtable player
), because at the moment it's just not enough quality there to beat teams consistently, let alone dominate them.
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This appears to be Bayern's CEO complaining about a referee on Twitter? Is it possible?
He is probably referring to Aytekin's pretty weird explanation why he didn't give a second yellow to Bellingham.
The decision is within the discretion of the referee. So it wasn't an obviously wrong call.
However, he can't argue the first yellow was a little harsh and therefore he didn't give a second yellow at the foul on Davies. Both incidents should be viewed independently.
(Disclaimer: I didn't watch the game.)
The videos and stills I saw make me want to disagree with this. I'd say his head was about shoulder high when he got kicked in the face.
I am not arguing if it was a yellow or not. I am only saying that Davies' head wasn't too low.
The duality of Kainz: wins a penalty, scores the penalty / gives away a penalty on the other end, get's sent off for it 
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The duality of Kainz: wins a penalty, scores the penalty / gives away a penalty on the other end, get's sent off for it
Yes, that Jablonski did not show any empathy towards Cologne and destroyed the match... - not like the super-Aytekin the day before...
I just wonder how that would be taken in the other direction - not showing a clear red to a Bayern player and reason it with empathy toward not destroying a match... - he probably would never be a referee in a Bundesliga match again... - for sure not for some weeks and probably never one that Dortmund plays in... - we could remember the story last season when Aytekin gave Dahoud a red card in the first half...
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Are you for real? We have seen calls much worse than this against Dortmund for years. Now one time Bayern have a little grievance and the referee has to explain himself on Sky and the next day in a talk show while the Bayern CEO sends angry tweets - if anything it highlights the pressure radiating out from Bayern ... ....and your reaction is this?
So what about the incidents from the second tweet?
How many of those referees joined talk shows the following day? How many of them " would never be a referee in a Bundesliga match again... - for sure not for some weeks and probably never one that Dortmund plays in... - we could remember the story last season when Aytekin gave Dahoud a red card in the first half...".
Aytekin should just have said the kick on Davies wasn't a clear mandatory second yellow card.
However, his explanations that Davies head was low or he felt empathy for Bellingham, because the first yellow was a little harsh made look his decision let Bellingham continue actually worse, at least from a Bayern view point.
Both incidents have to be decided independently.
Bayern didn't play particularly hard but got 6 yellow and 1 red card. So not only Bellingham's yellow was harsh.
I'm actually agree with Aytekin to use "Fingerspitzengefühl" in that situation to not destroy the game. However, he also could have shown it in the case of Coman who pulled the shirt in no man's land.
Still the referee wasn't at fault that Bayern conceded 2 goals with Dortmund actually applying no real pressure.
The key to me was the injury of de Ligt that destroyed the stability of the defense. Stanisic playing out of position didn't help either.
However, his explanations that Davies head was low or he felt empathy for Bellingham, because the first yellow was a little harsh made look his decision let Bellingham continue actually worse, at least from a Bayern view point.
Both incidents have to be decided independently.
Bayern didn't play particularly hard but got 6 yellow and 1 red card. So not only Bellingham's yellow was harsh.
I'm actually agree with Aytekin to use "Fingerspitzengefühl" in that situation to not destroy the game. However, he also could have shown it in the case of Coman who pulled the shirt in no man's land.
Still the referee wasn't at fault that Bayern conceded 2 goals with Dortmund actually applying no real pressure.
The key to me was the injury of de Ligt that destroyed the stability of the defense. Stanisic playing out of position didn't help either.
You do realize, that you are responding to a very biased Bayern fan, right? You won’t get a neutral/objective conversation.
Last season Bellingham had strong opinions about the officiating
You will not get one with a Dortmund fan either.
I do not care about what happened in the last years as that was not white and black either as there were always scenes on every side and I do not see do ob mention the negative rulings for Bayern either. Last year there e.g. were big shouts about a scene that at the end was offside. And in the CL final the referee was lenient from the start to both sides and kept a special line throughout the match - Lewy should be sent off for stomping on Boateng's foot the same way as Ribs, but the referee kept everything very soft.
Maybe Sane could have seen a red in the 90th, but when Aytekin would have given the justified red to Bellingham neither the red for Coman or that late scene with Leroy would have happened.
If Bellingham would not have kicked Davies out Dortmund could not have used the lack of speed of Stanisic at the end.
But the worst was the explanation... that it was a yellow but he did not want to decide the game like this out of empathy... as if the injuring of Davies did not affect the match...
Just think about the same scene in different direction and the reaction of the media, the BVB and the fans on such a declaration...
I mean, it is basically scientifically proven that there's a Bayern bonus. The bigger the club, the more likely it is to profit from referee mistakes. So Dortmund profits from that as well but not to the same extent and probably not in direct duels.
Agree with do.ob though that the moment Bayern loses points or goes out of a competition due to questionable referee calls they gonon about it foreever - which is probably the reason why big clubs are privileged in this way to begin with.
Agree with do.ob though that the moment Bayern loses points or goes out of a competition due to questionable referee calls they gonon about it foreever - which is probably the reason why big clubs are privileged in this way to begin with.
Another coach sacked. After Bochum, Leverkusen and Stuttgart Schalke are now the only bottom team to keep theirs and not for the right reasons I'm afraid.
Kramer ball will prove all the haters wrong, Terodde and Polter are far superior of the Füllkrug/Duksch dou.
hehe
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Bochum and Schalke.. two neighbours tumbling towards relegation hand in hand.
Hincapie is crazy.