Amazing.
German Football 20/21
- Thread starter do.ob
- Start date
The biggest surprise in all of this is that they didn't suspend Bentaleb again for missing the penalty.
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Fully prepared to read in tomorrow's papers that Schalke now can't hire anyone new, as the people who can do the hiring have all been fired.
Why did Schalke wait this long to pull the trigger? I'm afraid it is a little too late for them.
Strange question considering Gross was the 4th head coach of the season.
They could have sacked so many more people and suspended Bentaleb at least three more times. After Baum got sacked they even called Ibisevic (after they had sacked him already once this season) to ask him if he would sign again, so they might sack him again later.
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It's been fun for a long time but by now Schalke almost saddens me. The club is done, I honestly don't see how they can ever recover from this.
Can't believe they failed to sack Erwin after his defeatist performances in recent weeks. Not even mentioning what terrible PR it is to have a coal miner as mascot in times of climate crisis.
That mascot is like the one thing Schalke does well. It's a treasure.
https://twitter.com/fcunion_es/status/1353401255457075200
https://twitter.com/BVB_Turkiye/status/848958524000534528
https://twitter.com/seetheminivers1/status/1365953957244329984
https://twitter.com/WeLoveBettingUK/status/1272194082866167808
Considering the fact that this is now the second huge Bundesliga club after HSV, both with a massive economic and fan base, CL participants, title ambitions, etc, to go into complete disarray and relegation within a couple of years; Stuttgart going from a title win to relegation within a decade; Hertha as a former CL/EL club having been relegated too, then you have the bad decline of Werder Bremen over the last 15 years, also due to some considerable financial mismanagement - with all of that happening in a sport that is economically booming like never before, you can't help getting away with the impression that many Bundesliga clubs are, in fact, run horribly, counter to the firm image of competency Germans like to have of themselves and of their football.
I refrain from quoting the name of another thread on this forum at this point.
Great win by RB, brilliant comeback to keep the title challenge alive.
I still can't understand how the feck that was a penalty by Upamecano, it's a shoulder to shoulder push a defender does every match and nothing happens. Refereeing is ridiculous now, defenders 10 years ago would be utter shite if they thrown into today's game.
I still can't understand how the feck that was a penalty by Upamecano, it's a shoulder to shoulder push a defender does every match and nothing happens. Refereeing is ridiculous now, defenders 10 years ago would be utter shite if they thrown into today's game.
You're reducing the top two leagues to a couple of clubs though. But the fact that even huge clubs, and several of them, can spiral into absolute catastrophe so quickly and even fail promotion in the second tier also says something positive about the competition they face.
The problem is more that, aside from Bayern, most big clubs have missed the boat when it came to transition from a medium sized family businesses to serious corporations and now they are forever playing catch up, with Leverkusen (and more recently Leipzig as well) as a road block whose only purpose is to stop proper clubs, who can actually grow into something, from regular access to CL money.
Of course. There's a lot of clubs who put very decent and competitive teams on the pitch week in week out, with very modest means. Just saying there's been an alarming number of colossal failures, once more money is involved. More money, more problems, it seems.
It has to do with your second, structural point. But it of course also happens at clubs in other leagues with other structural conditions, look at Valencia getting comprehensively fecked over by their 'owner' Lim.
I think it can be said of all three of Stuttgart, Schalke and Hamburg that leadership at the highest level has been their downfall.
Tönnies ran Schalke like was their founder and while the club probably developed well commercially his every move ob the sporting side went bust.
Hamburg and Stuttgart seemingly have a new president every other year. Even though the latter seem in a relatively great spot in football terms at the moment their upper hierarchy is tearing itself apart to the point where Mislintat is mentioning it when asked about his future and the club is threatened with a 20mil fine.
Hertha's new management trying to connect with their base:
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And they just go on moving towards real crisis. Better at everything, and the one attack Freiburg play really good, they just can't defend and let Freiburg take the lead (if it stays this way, Freiburg would even overtake Gladbach), so both Leverkusen and Gladbach are in increasing danger to fail at everything they wanted to reach this season...
I have zero doubts in Bosz, the current form has many reasons and he´s the last one in that chain. But I´m pretty convinced Völler and Rolfes know this, maybe acknowledging their own mistakes.
We had 21 shots, 25 crosses and an xG of 1.16. We weren't much better than Freiburg, let alone in every aspect. Currently, the attack is incredibly dull and uninspired. Desperate croases and long shots en masse.
You lost your best striker and best attacking midfielder and did not bring in adequate successors.
Escher wrote a little article on Leverkusen's struggles, putting the bluntness of their attack down to the wide areas (opponents defending them better and wide attackers not being in great shape), a disappearance of goals from dead balls and defensive stability being eroded by injuries to experienced players.
https://11freunde.de/artikel/pillenknick/3387920
It's also worth pointing out that after taking care of their cup obligations they get to play Bielefeld, Hertha, Schalke, Hoffenheim and Cologne between the Gladbach and Bayern fixtures. Giving them an easy route to some better momentum.
https://11freunde.de/artikel/pillenknick/3387920
It's also worth pointing out that after taking care of their cup obligations they get to play Bielefeld, Hertha, Schalke, Hoffenheim and Cologne between the Gladbach and Bayern fixtures. Giving them an easy route to some better momentum.
We brought in Schick for Volland and IMO, that's an improvement. Was never really a fan of Volland. However, Havertz is really missing. Especially since we didn't replace Brandt either. Now a 17 year old prodigy is our only really creative player im the squad, the rest are either strikers or rely on pace.
Anyway, we played the first half of the season effectively with two wingers. Bailey and Diaby are unfortunately completely overplayed and I believe this has much to do with our performances dropping a level or two.
That's a very accurate assessment I believe. I just hope Bosz survives the season. At least the loud fans on the internet are already up in arms.
On paper Schick is probably indeed an upgrade to Volland, but in reality his output hasn't been anywhere near as steady.
The way Brandt is going he might be available next summer as his own replacement though.
I think the loss to injury of two of their most promising young players in key areas, Paulinho and Palacios, was pretty bad too.
While it wouldn't hurt to have them available I don't either one of them played a big enough role at Leverkusen that you could describe their injuries as a big loss or momentum shaping. Palacios made the squad 12 times this season and totals 1 start, 2 subs and 86 minutes played.
Paulinho seemed like he might maybe get somewhere eventually, but bottom line he only started one match last season as well.
Will Peter Boss survive this season? Read that he might be sacked (maybe on caf). It's amazing how quickly things change.
I don't know, the problem with Schick is his injury record not his goal output. Volland was one of the worst strikers I've seen for us in front of the goal, his output might look decent but that was primarily because he played so much. Schick is currently at 150 minutes per goal and was at 162 last season. Volland in contrast was at 250 minutes in 2020, 225 in 2019, 214 in 2018 and 223 in 2017. IMO, we really, really needed to replace Volland. From all the teams playing for the CL, we had by far the weakest man up front if you ask me. Volland is/was the opposite of clinical and was all over the pitch but rarely occupied the box.
A Brandt comeback would be great, though. But we probably have to get rid of a few midfielders for that to happen, first and foremost Demirbay I'd say. Maybe even Bailey so we can plan with Paulinho on the wings instead of the center.
Palacios had a bad injury too.
The point is, both could have been an option and could have provided input and quality to the team, if only just a little. If the team is running on fumes, if you've sold key players without replacement, if your midfield suffers from old age and lack of talent anyway, if Diaby and Bailey seem "überspielt" as the 11 Freunde article points out, these kind of options could have been vital.
Palacios before his injury looked like he had earned his starting spot for good now. Was one of the best players on the pitch at the time. Paulinho was a similar story. Unfortunately, the Corona break came after his excellent match against Frankfurt. That was one of the best performances of a Leverkusen attacker in the whole season, maybe even the best. This momentum was killed by the break and to make things even worse he ruptured his ACL shortly afterwards. He could easily have had a similar development to Wirtz back then.
Paulinho is also the type of player we'd desperately need right now. Somebody who can beat a player in tight spaces with one twos, great close control and trickery in contrast to Frimpong, Diaby, Bailey and Gray who primarily utilize their pace when dribbling.
Exactly. Paulinho would definitely have started ahead of Bellarabi who was absolutely atrocious at the start of the season, and then he injured himself, too. So before Frimpong and Gray were signed, Bailey and Diaby were the only wingers available. Diaby has already played a staggering 2500 minutes this season and Bailey is at almost 2400, too. And they're among the players sprinting most frequently, too.
Add to that that all of our midfield options bar Demirbay, who's the biggest flop ever for us, either is injured (Baumgartlinger, Paulinho) or was for a sustained period of time (Aranguiz, Palacios, Wirtz, Amiri) and it's clear that the team can't be in form.
I mean Volland wouldn't be my ideal no9 and maybe he could have played alongside Schick, but what your stats ignore is that he had an assist output to match his goal tally, whereas Schick just has the one this season. One way or another good old Kevin just ends up doing something decisive quite often. Schick has also basically been injury free since November, it's the fact that he can't fight off Alario like Volland did that's eating into his minutes.
I could see Paulinho stepping in right about now, but Palacios being a starter for good?
Doesn't exactly look like Bosz thought so. He's made the squad 8 times since his injury, the only minutes he got were against Essen, where he was taken off at half time / 0:0.
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Not to mention Diaby is just a kid still, himself.
I mean Volland wouldn't be my ideal no9 and maybe he could have played alongside Schick, but what your stats ignore is that he had an assist output to match his goal tally, whereas Schick just has the one this season. One way or another good old Kevin just ends up doing something decisive quite often. Schick has also basically been injury free since November, it's the fact that he can't fight off Alario like Volland did that's eating into his minutes.
I could see Paulinho stepping in right about now, but Palacios being a starter for good?
Doesn't exactly look like Bosz thought so. He's made the squad 8 times since his injury, the only minutes he got were against Essen, where he was taken off at half time / 0:0.
Well, Volland had Havertz playing alongside him. Now we don't have any prolific goal scorer at all our striker aside. Schick is much better with the ball at his feet so I assume his assist record would go up, eventually. The issues with Volland just don't show in the stats fully. With him in our line up, the box and other typical striker areas were left vacant so often and he at times missed absolute sitters on such a regular basis. I really think he is overrated a fair bit.
And Palacios looked at least as close to becoming a starter before his injury as Paulinho looked before his very own ACL. Due to Demirbay's atrocious performances at the time people had hoped Palacios would take his spot for quite a while. When he finally did he was among our best players on the pitch and started in the next game as well. Then the injury happened. To me, Palacios looks more mature than Paulinho while the latter definitely has more ability in general. Bosz' treatment of young players is sometimes a bit confusing anyway. He goes from not considering them at all to promoting them to starters in almost no time. Paulinho has been with us for longer than Diaby. He always looked good when he came on. Last season was the same and everybody was questioning why Diaby got no minutes at all. Then there was one interview from Bosz in which he said Diaby was very close to the starting eleven (which sounded ridiculous at the time since Paulinho was clearly ahead of him and still barely got minutes) and two or three weeks later, Diaby suddenly started out of nowhere and maintained that status from then on. When Palacios finally started it felt it seemed like this was a similar case and I believe it also would've been the same with Paulinho if the Corona break didn't happen.
I feel for Bosz structure, control and tactical discipline is very important and he's willing to sacrifice attacking impact for it. However, once a player finally gets those things right he can boost past competitors in no time. Paulinho for example was always much better going forward than Bellarabi and Bailey. Although Bailey made a step forward this season, I still think Paulinho is better than him in this regard. Palacios was also more reliant on the ball than Demirbay whenever he played. However, both didn't play and I assume it was because they didn't fulfill their tactical roles against the ball and in terms of positioning - very hard to judge those things if you don't know the instructions of the coach.
The longer I watch football the more I appreciate players who maybe don't have dazzling dribbling skills or pace, but - being aware of that - solve situations in a very straightforward way. Like Stindl at Gladbach, Müller at Bayern or (post pace) Reus at Dortmund. Especially when they are surrounded by players who bring talent in abundance, but have quite a bit of room for improvement on the mental side of the game. I think Volland would have been quite valuable in a similar role. Behind Schick, bringing some maturity into Leverkusen's attack.
What you're saying about Palacios and Paulinho sounds plausible, but if the former was about to break through why doesn't he play at all anymore, even though the team isn't giving Bosz much reason to keep up the status quo? I mean he has 5 subs a game (and regularly leaves some unused), even if fitness doesn't permit Palacios to start you'd expect at least a couple of cameos here and there.
I had actually forgotten about Volland (and Schick for that matter) and was talking about Brandt and Havertz. Then I realized that Brandt left one season earlier and was confused.
Forza St. Pauli! 
Is it that time of year again, when Hamburg slowly fade into 4th place, after being at the top all season? How is that even possible with Terodde in their team?
Their next game is against Kiel.
Their next game is against Kiel.
Just shows how hard it will be for Schalke in the second league, don't expect them to come back to the Bundesliga soon, if ever (just look at Kaiserslautern, I think their fate is more probable then Hamburgs)Is it that time of year again, when Hamburg slowly fade into 4th place, after being at the top all season? How is that even possible with Terodde in their team?
Their next game is against Kiel.
True. Unless Tönnies comes back with a truck full of money the chances that they will drop down further/go bankrupt within the next say three years are significantly higher than their chances of making it back into the first division.
Can't comment on all the discussion going on regarding Leverkusen but the underrating of Volland is ridiculous! He was one of Leverkusen's most important players during the last couple of seasons, especially under Bosz.
How can you complain about his goalscoring record when he has never ever been a number 9 in his career, he's always played as a wing-forward or second-striker going back to his time at Hoffenheim and also at Leverkusen? His stats perfectly reflect what his role is in the team (under Bosz he had 18 goals and 18 assists in 44 BL matches). Him being in the squad allowed more verstaility in attack with him rotating positions with Havertz, who shared in the goalscoring load.
Even now he's moved to Monaco and producing similar numbers playing mostly in behind Ben Yedder, who is a more traditional number 9. Schick is arguably a better goalscorer but in no way a better player overall than Volland, Volland contributed much more than just goals to Leverkusen, and is now doing the same for Monaco who are a few points from the top of Ligue 1 now.
He was one of Leverkusen's most important players during the last couple of seasons, especially under Bosz.How can you complain about his goalscoring record when he has never ever been a number 9 in his career, he's always played as a wing-forward or second-striker going back to his time at Hoffenheim and also at Leverkusen? His stats perfectly reflect what his role is in the team (under Bosz he had 18 goals and 18 assists in 44 BL matches). Him being in the squad allowed more verstaility in attack with him rotating positions with Havertz, who shared in the goalscoring load.
Even now he's moved to Monaco and producing similar numbers playing mostly in behind Ben Yedder, who is a more traditional number 9. Schick is arguably a better goalscorer but in no way a better player overall than Volland, Volland contributed much more than just goals to Leverkusen, and is now doing the same for Monaco who are a few points from the top of Ligue 1 now.
Marco Rose grudge match coming up tonight.