Another shocker from Hitz. Punched the ball into Bebou and it goes into the net.
Maybe they can try their U19 GK for the next match?
Maybe they can try their U19 GK for the next match?
German Football 20/21
- Thread starter do.ob
- Start date
Hitz forces Bebou into scoring after he already missed two sitters in the first half.
17-year-old Luca Netz scores the 1:1 for Hertha assisted by old man Sami Khedira...
And equalizer for Mainz against Leverkusen 2:2. That is how we know Leverkusen...
Hoffenheim, so stupid. 
Dortmund could have lost by 6. Haven’t watched them for a while...can’t believe how shit they are.
Hitz saved Dortmund in this match, Bebou would've had 4 goals otherwise.
Has Dortmunds defending always been this suspect? It was hilariously bad all game.
In this season yes - that is the main reason, why they are struggling to secure even the EL, and why the CL seems very difficult to reach again this year. It just has become to simple to beat them (already 8 losses in the league). On a good day, they are still great (still second-most goals, and rightfully so as their attack is still the most talented in the league, except Bayern), but they far to often have days, where their opponent can just outscore them, or where everything goes wrong for them. Where other good teams on a bad day may still get a 0:0 or some result like that, Dortmund too often is losing it completely.
And regarding Hitz: He may have saved a few chances, but he was also not looking good when Hoffenheim did score. So it was not really a game to secure his place in the goal.
Are they many points behind the CL places, or is it just because they're so bad defensively? Their attack seemed to lack aggression and confidence also.
Oh no, I'm not saying it was a great goalkeeping performance, just that he saved the defence on a few occasions.
Dortmund had three key personnel decision this season and it appears they got them all wrong. And badly so.
1) Hakimi's replacement, Meunier, has been week individually and he offers none of the attacking threat and depth of Hakimi which, as it turned out, was crucial to Dortmund's attack
2) Sack Favre immediately or trust him to moderate the season as a lame duck. They opted for the latter and it ended badly halfway into the season.
3) Who to replace Favre with: They decided on Terzic, who wasn't an entirely unreasonable choice, given he's a local who supposedly gets the club and he's familiar with the team, since he has been an assistant coach for a while now. That, didn't end much better than Favre and I expect him to be demoted back to his original post in the upcoming days.
Everything else is just background noise that would've been compensated if not for the three mistakes above.
Do you happen to know why BVB didn't actually attempt to buy Hakimi? Deemed too expensive/they didn't have the money?
I thought that surely the reason why they couldn't get him would be that Real was refusing to outright sell him, but then Real did anyway. Surely BVB would have been able to beat out Inter for his signature? I was surprised that they didn't try harder (or did I miss it if they did).
Currently just 3 points behind, could become 6 tomorrow if Frankfurt wins. But I just don't trust the current Dortmund team to turn their season around enough to re-enter the top 4. If you ask me about the CL chances for the teams, it looks like this:
- Bayern Munich (48 points / 20 games played): No question here - top 4 for sure, most likely winning the league again, as no other team stepped up when they went through their bad patch. As they are now back to winning almost every game, nothing to fear for them.
- Leipzig (44/21) - for them basically the same applies, just a little bit worse than Bayern. Very stable team, doing what is expected from them and playing and getting points like expected from a top team.
- Wolfsburg (38/20) - very unexpected to see them up there. Their coach Oliver Glasner was actually among the favourites to be sacked as the first one in this season because he had a lot of troubles with the rest of the management there. Nevertheless they solved their problems and now the team slowly crawled up into the CL places - unexpected when the season started, but now I probably don't see them dropping their level much, but likely to go on if nothing bad happens to their best players. Still they are at risk of having a bad run again as their squad does not appear to be very deep, but as they are not playing in Europe (failed in the EL qualification - one point more, why Glasner was at risk), they could get through to the CL
- Leverkusen (36/21) - had a very strong start at the season and where in a position to even challenge Munich, but dropped their level a lot this year. Personally I expect them to drop out of the top 4 (maybe already tomorrow), but they look as a team still good enough to get back on the right track in time to still be in the race.
- Frankfurt (36/20) - from all the mentioned teams, they had the worst start of the season (including a very long run of draws), but they appear to have made the right changes (including, but not only, getting Jovic back on loan from Real Madrid). If Wolfsburg or Leverkusen drop out of the top 4, Frankfurt is most likely to surpass them
- Dortmund (33/21) - insecure team without real leadership on the field, without visible improvements, with a very high dependency on Haaland's goals to win games, but even he can't outscore every team they face. No team in front of them looked as bad as they currently do throughout the season (Frankfurt or Wolfsburg might not have been great, but at least they were always hard to beat, and those draws they got grinded out the points they are now in front of Dortmund and improved their confidence). They need a change but I am really not sure where it should come from - I am not even sure if replacing Terzic would help them. So I think it will be very difficult for them to get to top 4.
- Gladbach (32/20) - also struggling over the last weeks and dropped in the table. It seems like the amount of speculation about Rose leaving for Dortmund or players like Zakaria and Neuhaus leaving is already impacting them. They are playing Wolfsburg tomorrow, that match should give an idea about their further direction - can they attack the top 4? Challenging for top 6/EL should be their minimum goal for this season now.
Yeah I thought not buying Hakimi would weaken them as he had a good partnership with Sancho down the right and with the other defenders too.
Like you say, maybe they should've sacked Favre last summer and appointed someone like Rose, although with Dortmund and M'gladbach both getting CL, I think it would've been hard to make that move. Terzic looks out of his depth and just a stand in option, one that could cost Dortmund dearly.
I assume money was tight because of Corona and for all his strengths Hakimi is a defensive liability who forces you to play with a back three to cover for him. So maybe they were a bit hesitant to go all-in like that on him in such a critical time.
Thanks for the insight, seems its tight between 3rd and 7th.
Its good to see the re-emergence of Wolfsburg, it makes for good viewing seeing so many teams in the race for CL.
Who do you see making the CL places outside of Bayern and Leipzig?
Yes that's what I figured, and Conte plays a back 3 by default so that's a fit.
It's amazing though how badly he's been missed, and you wonder whether, between Delaney, Witsel and Can, BVB couldn't have found a structure where one of those covers from midfield, seeing they don't offer much going forward anyway.
All matches today were draws, has this ever happened before on a Bundesliga saturday?
The problem is that Dortmund's squad lacks natural wide players. Hazard is the only one and he's been injured almost all season. Even Sancho isn't someone who enjoys providing width and Guerreiro is the same. Hakimi did all that with his relentless sprints into depth and at the beginning of the season, even when things were looking relatively rosy, Meunier was just completely overtasked when he was supposed to attack the space in front of him. Teams closed the center and watched Dortmund struggle to pass the ball through a dozen legs.
Hazard's been, quietly, missing badly, too. Not an eye-catching performer, but a reliable one. At first I thought he was benched, then as it went on I wondered and saw he'd been out all this time. Zagadou, a bad miss too.
Anyway, whatever the details, Hakimi is just such a talent that I found it strange BVB didn't do more to get him and to make it work. But then I find myself underestimating and ignoring the effects of the pandemic in my thoughts about football all the time.
It's easy to say this in hindsight, but if you make someone who can't play in a back four your record transfer and one of the top earners then it will probably come back to haunt you as well. Especially if your current coach won't last past the season.
I don't see anything stopping Frankfurt from staying in the top 4 now. Maybe even the match against Bayern next week will be interesting - at least they have the confidence to try it (their veteran midfielder Hasebe just said after their win against Cologne "It will be difficult, but of course we can beat Bayern" - he should know what he is talking about, won the cup in the final against Bayern in 2018). And besides that I really do not know, could be Wolfsburg or Leverkusen, maybe Gladbach, I don't believe in Dortmund.
I'm looking forward to the match against Frankfurt next weekend. Usually Bayern are excellent to stop teams having a winning run. See Leverkusen or Freiburg a few weeks ago.
I'm more worried against Bielefeld on Monday evening. Bayern played 3 games and traveled to Qatar (different time zone, different coinage) while Bielefeld rested. It won't be as easy as it looks on paper.
I hope there won't be another "Weltpokalgewinnerbesieger" T-shirt as in 2002 after winning the club world cup and then losing to St. Pauli.
I'm more worried against Bielefeld on Monday evening. Bayern played 3 games and traveled to Qatar (different time zone, different coinage) while Bielefeld rested. It won't be as easy as it looks on paper.
I hope there won't be another "Weltpokalgewinnerbesieger" T-shirt as in 2002 after winning the club world cup and then losing to St. Pauli.
Thank you for the insight, it seems an interesting battle for the other top 4 spots thats for sure.
Are there any young talents to keep an eye on that aren't at Dortmund or Bayern?
I hear Wirtz is a bright talent.
Of course, it's all hindsight, but how could it be else. We are just casual outside observers, we don't have to be accountable, and certainly I don't presume to be as competent at running a club as the people actually running the clubs.
And I'm just basically agreeing with your analysis of the Hakimi-Meunier transition being one fateful factor for this season's subpar BVB performances.
That being said, sometimes, you can't see the forest for the trees if you're too close; and putting a nobody like Terzic in charge as interim for such a long time, you don't need hindsight or inside knowledge to realize how reckless it is. Doesn't mean it couldn't have worked, we don't know all there is to it, but it screamed reckless and it's proving to be.
It was 'Weltpokalsiegerbesieger', same meaning but the doubling of words kind of being the joke - but yeah, let's hope not.
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Of course the fan is most of the time analyzing in hindsight, but if you ignore the status quo of the time at which the decision was made then you're basically criticizing people for not being able to look into the future and your point becomes worthless. And in this regard I don't blame Dortmund's officials for not taking an enormous gamble in times of Corona, but I think it's fair to criticize them for apparently underestimating Hakimi's tactical function for the team and replacing him with someone so fundamentally different without compensating at another position, e.g. by signing more out and out wingers.
Appointing Terzic was always a gamble, that much was true. But you have to weigh the risk of him failing against the alternatives available at the time. "Would someone like Weinzierl have done a better job" is a question without a clear answer. I think the bigger feck up was to give another season to Favre, when it seems like the relationship between him and key parts of the squad was already so strained it fell apart at the first hurdle.
Maybe the farcical communication strategy of Gladbach will finally have an end. It's a shitty situation for them of course, but I'm not sure they could have handled it much worse. You have Kicker reporting this as close to done, while Eberl alternates between "I'm 98% sure he'll stay", "I'm 97% sure he'll stay" and stuff like "what can you do, when someone wants to leave?" "we will tell you when he has made a decision", while Rose either comes up with the emptiest of phrases or angrily stares down reporters, for daring to ask about his future, while all the media report this as all but done.
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Meunier is obviously a disappointment for them as of now but I don't think that's the primary issue. The BVB has multiple problems more urgent than a missing replacement for Hakimi. Especially since Sancho has found his form, they're scoring quite reliably. But they concede far too much, especiall from set pieces.
I don't think Terzic is really up to the job. Anyway, I can understand them to some extent. If I had the choice to either trust an inexperienced coach to see the season through and then appoint Rose or to employ a mediocre but experienced coach immediately, I'd go for the first option.
Anyway, maybe they should've tried signing Rangnick. He's available and a great coach, possibly even better than Rose.
I don't see how Rangnick would possibly have worked out with the BVB setup that is defined by a prominent, strong DoF with Zorc and a coach who's supposed to get the best out of the players that the famous squad-planning team provides.
Why would Rangnick agree to be subordinate to that when he has had positions with more power all these years, and that is his forte and his thing? And Zorc too, would never cede control of squad-planning decisions. And then the Schalke past, no way, don't think Rangnick was a possibility at all.
Hard to know how the situation was behind the scenes, the dressing room, but if the best they came up with was handing the team over to a nobody like Terzic for 3/4 of the season, who's got no experience, no record, and was never going to be in the situation to have authority, seeing he's interim, it's hard not to conclude they might as well have tried to ride the season out with Favre.
Anyway, as they say in these parts - you love to see it. They've got a mountain to climb now into top 4, and they've fecked themselves comprehensively.
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Rose is leaving Gladbach at the end of the season.
Good opportunity for them, they can take advantage of the post-final tiredness that I expect Bayern to show,and they are not a bad team at all to start with.
Also Bayern confirmed the Omar Richard's signing shortly after Upamecano. Means defense next year is Upa/Hernandez/Süle in center unless Süle doesn't get a contract extension, then I could see him leaving after this season.
Waiting until Rosenmontag to announce this.
It's perhaps worth noting that Gladbach apparently didn't coordinate their press release with Dortmund's side and even announced his destination. If fans were allowed in the stadiums this might have taken quite a dramatic turn.
Dortmund had a fairly successful recipe with their 343 in the second half of last season. Replacing Hakimi with Meunier made Favre switch back to a 433/4231 in which he never really manged to (re-)create a cohesive attacking unit, something which greatly contributed to his early demise. The squad of course has other issues as well, but since their RB shuffle completely killed the attacking balance of the team those other issues arguably pale in comparison.
A true expert of the game.
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Dortmund weakening their competitor and announcing it during the season? How dare they?!
Am I doing this right?
Am I doing this right?
In addition, since everyone's been proclaiming him to be such a great talent, I really hope Nianzou can have a phase free of injuries so that we finally can get a glimpse of him. Been looking forward to seeing him get some minutes this season, but he had two rather serious injuries in a row..
Actually Gladbach announced it, so it's absolutely 100% completely different.
Sky fanning the flames by reporting that Rose and Zorc have a meeting set up for the international break to discuss transfers and apparently also that Rose and Dortmund have reached their agreement a long time ago. If fans were allowed in this would probably up there with Hummels' first match after announcing his move to Bayern.
This is a pretty ridiculous conflict of interest for Rose.
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Can't wait to see how current Rose makes sure that future Rose won't get to play in the CL with Dortmund.
They are lucky the direct games were 1st/18th match day and not later
Still, it's madness. Every point Gladbach doesn't gain will add to the pressure, it's even imaginable that this might escalate to the point where Eberl might face a decision to sack Rose earlier?
We'll see what Rose's made of now..
As for Eberl, he'll have to think twice about allowing those 'conditions set out in the contract' of any future manager he hires, this is a pretty unacceptable situation to get your club in, as a DoF..
I just imagine the outcry in the football world, if Bayern would have done such thing.
They would bet crucified. Dortmund are the nice guys and everybody's darling and getting away with daylight robbery.
They would bet crucified. Dortmund are the nice guys and everybody's darling and getting away with daylight robbery.
Also, the blogging nerd clown from Spielverlagerung now playing a 'major role' in BVB's transfer planning
Oh how the mighty have falling
Sven Mislintat didn't die and go to Swabia for this
Oh how the mighty have falling
Sven Mislintat didn't die and go to Swabia for this
Haven't you heard, they didn't sell shiny young player for arbitrary amount below his market value last season, so they're the antichrist now.
You love to see it though
They are lucky the direct games were 1st/18th match day and not later
Still, it's madness. Every point Gladbach doesn't gain will add to the pressure, it's even imaginable that this might escalate to the point where Eberl might face a decision to sack Rose earlier?
We'll see what Rose's made of now..
As for Eberl, he'll have to think twice about allowing those 'conditions set out in the contract' of any future manager he hires, this is a pretty unacceptable situation to get your club in, as a DoF..
If the stadiums were full I'd go at least 50/50 towards Rose not making it until the end of the season. But without the fans there is no direct pressure: who cares if people are foaming at the mouth in front of their computer screens. And Eberl's threshold for taking the gamble of an interim coach is probably pretty high as well.
You can't completely rule out such a situation: it would be the same if his contract was running out and somewhat similar if he was aggressively pushing for a move. It's a bit of an ambivalent situation, because he was a big catch for Gladbach at the time, they wanted to change/implement their club philosophy and his aligned perfectly with it and it paid off handsomely with the top four finish in his first season and their CL campaign the current season, so it could be argued that people shouldn't be so quick to forget where the club was heading under Hecking and that no matter how this plays out it will have been worth it.
On the other hand a two year release clause undermines everything a newly appointed coach is supposed to stand for and all the talk of being happy to get to work at a club like Gladbach and building something together that both Eberl and Rose talked when this thing started seems like hollow cynicism now. It's a weird situation all around, Dortmund were 99% sure they were going to replace Favre this summer for a long time now, for all we know they sorted things out with Rose last summer, while Gladbach was making a signing like Hannes Wolf for him. And would Rose still have given him a cameo every single game if triggering the obligation to buy would've cost him €10m of next summer's transfer window?