You didn't state them like opinions. No I don't agee that if you beleive in god that you fit the B movie stereotype of a religious zealot
.Gary Glitter announces conversion to Catholicism
- Thread starter sglowrider
- Start date
You didn't state them like opinions. No I don't agee that if you beleive in god that you fit the B movie stereotype of a religious zealot
.You didn't state them like opinions. No I don't agee that if you beleive in god that you fit the B movie stereotype of a religious zealot
No offense, but if you firmly believe in the Catholic version of how we came to be, then you are seriously deluded and are probably beyond help.
Ok.
Yes.
Success!!!
On a related note, I read Elvis the bible as a bedtime story the other night. He didn't like it as much as Haroon and the sea of stories though
Bingo. It will never change until this changes.
Are you for real! You were constantly insulting anyone of faith in the newbies! Now you are completely disregarding that. Maybe you appreciated you were being a inciteful twat or maybe you just forgot.
Hello.
I've said constantly in any thread about religion if you've bothered reading it through, that the concept of a God, or idea that there is a creator of a sensible sort is a sound (well not sound, but sane) concept and one I have no qualms with. It's organised religion which is the poisonous bollocks. A God that tells you what happened - completely contrary to modern understanding - and what to do with yourself to avoid his wrath is a ludicrous and dangerous idea.
As such, I agree completely with that statement. God is not religion. God needs no organising. None of us know what he/she or it may or may not be, so no one needs to tell us, let alone organise us into a doctrine of outdated, bigoted, homophobic, oppressive and exclusive archaic dogma. And if they do, they can burn in Hades.
Goodbye.
Truth is you would all hate God if he wasn't so powerful. He is a despicable character, let's face it. So I can only assume you pretend to like him just because you are afraid of him.
Yes I am alluding to the constant irrelevant sniping you do outside these long essays of your and everyones ongoing general confusion with what is and why. I am no defender of the church or the Institution. I just don't think people of faith should be labeled deluded, paranoid or stupid. I mean is that not ignorant and obnoxious.
Are you a Catholic, United87?
It depends...would you freely critisize the church of Scientology?...Or would you equally barack everyone for being disrespectful and obnoxious for ripping it to shreds? Because if not, you're surely being hypocritical.
Because myself and others of my ilk see little difference in it's validity.
My rants come from the fact I'm not ignorant about it..I've read both the Bible and the Qur'an from cover to cover. Something I actually doubt a lot of believers have. My bile stems from knowledge, not ignorance. Anyone with any knowledge of the holy texts and the science that contradicts it would have no doubt about it's stupidity IMO.
But yes, in essence, ridiculing the stupid and unenlightened from what my perspective is, is a cruel practice. But when religion is so overwhelmingly prevalent, powerful and historically vicious, my qualms are soothed. We aren't picking on a crippled black child here...we're criticising a hugely powerful and corrupt insitution. Poor catholicism.
Because myself and others of my ilk see little difference in it's validity.
My rants come from the fact I'm not ignorant about it..I've read both the Bible and the Qur'an from cover to cover. Something I actually doubt a lot of believers have. My bile stems from knowledge, not ignorance. Anyone with any knowledge of the holy texts and the science that contradicts it would have no doubt about it's stupidity IMO.
But yes, in essence, ridiculing the stupid and unenlightened from what my perspective is, is a cruel practice. But when religion is so overwhelmingly prevalent, powerful and historically vicious, my qualms are soothed. We aren't picking on a crippled black child here...we're criticising a hugely powerful and corrupt insitution. Poor catholicism.
Yes brought up catholic but I would not beleive in the bible word for word at all specifically the old testement, my faith is more spiritual. I beleive there is something undefined. Again I am not defending the Catholic church but the belittling of people who beleive something different from you. In regards to Scientlogy or other faiths I do think some of their practices strange but who am I or you to say they are wrong.
How about when they say homosexuals are evil or condoms shouldn't be used in AIDS stricken countries or, I dunno, 72 virgins will be awarded you if you please God with Jihad?
No not everyone in all the major Abrahamic faiths believe in that, but so what? Not all Conservatives are Fascist, but that doesn't mean we can't critisize Conservatism. You can switch that for Socialism and Communism if you like, it's all politics, and politics is fair game. But Religion is not, in the eyes of the religious, even though religion is telling people what they consider facts and not just opinion canvassing...even though those facts are contradicted by actual facts.
When you step back from it the whole "respect it" thing is complete nonsense. We don't respect the views of many loons so why should we with this?
If their - and your - faith is strong and devout enough to think we are misguided and are going to be punished for it then what do you care? Nothing should be off limits to criticism, especially religion. Even Nick Griffin was - as he should have been - allowed to air his views freely. If those views are ridiculous, they'll be shot down. T'is the way of the world, and religion has thrived off not letting the world include it in this very basic democratic standard.
No, not 'poor Catholicism'.
Maybe just a bit of understanding regarding the difference between being Catholic as part of a social group (born into a Catholic family and/or society) and being an active practitioner of the faith, not to mention respecting the distinction between the many different tenets of Catholic theology.
I'm not going to bore you with going through them, but just off the top of my head I can think of at least 15 different positions, all regarding themselves as Catholic.
It's possible to be an advocate of gay rights, a feminist, left wing -- and still be Catholic.
Ridiculing the stupid and unenlightened is always a good thing, and I'm more than happy to be ridiculed if you find I fit into any of those groups.
Holding the prima facie belief that every Catholic is stupid and unenlightened is just obviously false though, and deserves ridicule, cruel as it may seem.
No, not 'poor Catholicism'.
Maybe just a bit of understanding regarding the difference between being Catholic as part of a social group (born into a Catholic family and/or society) and being an active practitioner of the faith, not to mention respecting the distinction between the many different tenets of Catholic theology.
I'm not going to bore you with going through them, but just off the top of my head I can think of at least 15 different positions, all regarding themselves as Catholic.
It's possible to be an advocate of gay rights, a feminist, left wing -- and still be Catholic.
Ridiculing the stupid and unenlightened is always a good thing, and I'm more than happy to be ridiculed if you find I fit into any of those groups.
Holding the prima facie belief that every Catholic is stupid and unenlightened is just obviously false though, and deserves ridicule, cruel as it may seem.
With all due respect Waltraute - and I've always liked you as a poster - to me, the whole "I don't believe in most of it, but I'm still a Catholic - (insert any theology here) " attitude is possibly the worst.
How can you be a left wing, feminist advocate of gay rights catholic if you've actually read the book this entire thing is based on?
The whole thing is based on the theology...all of it. No word from God has come down and told you to amend this or interpret this like that. The Bible is still exactly the same. All that has happened is that the church, and those who call themselves Catholic, have bended here and swayed there to adhere to common moral practices to keep themselves afloat. But then what do you believe in? Modern common moral practices...not the word of God
Because what's the point of it all?..surely if you're a Catholic, you believe in a specific thing, and you go to heaven. That's the whole point of it. If you're amending this and that to suit what you think, you're thinking independently and doing what you think is right - which is exactly what you should be doing - but you're in no way a Catholic anymore than Ghandi was...
The greatest trick religion has ever pulled is convincing the world the possibility of a God, is a vindication of their God. A Catholic brought up in strict - and correct - Catholicism, will veer away from it eventually, but if they feel there may be a God later on, they'll say "yeah, well it's the Catholic God isn't it?"..even though they don't believe in half the doctrine...
And you know what?...Kids brought up Muslim, Jewish, Hindu and Bubblebloopy do the same. Catholicism isn't tea on village greens with a vicar, it's a religious doctrine. One based in farcical fairy stories long since debunked and which has lead to outrageous miscarriages of justice.
So actually, in my opinion, you're just as much a part of the problem as the Pope's of this world...because at least they can be ridiculed. The moderates can't...even though their views are not based in their religion at all, merely their own...And so it's these type of "well we'll just go with it whilst simultaniously thinking it's silly" attitude that spreads it and encourages the power and corruption that leads to arguments like these...
and when you step back from the whole thing you see how absolutely ridiculous it is. And I can't Not pick at that..
NEXT DAY POST THOUGHT EDIT: Sorry luv, I'd started my pre-friday night going out drinking by then...it seems a little harsh in the morning. I could've put it less aggressively.
I do not beleive that nor do most people Imo. Not all religious people are loons which you again compared us to. I agree with some of what you are saying. Goodnight
.I'm sure you could have, but then that post of yours wouldn't have been half as good. You've got some awesome rhetorical skills.
That is to say I really appreciated your post, and the only reason I haven't answered until now is because I honestly didn't know where to begin.
Many of the issues you're addressing, like the lack of integrity embodied in a lukewarm, 'I'm Catholic since I'm born into the church', 'I love the music, and the art, and the rituals', 'I can always find a bit of theological sophistry to claim I'm still Catholic'-position -- that would be me, then! -- and the way we could be percieved as buying our numinous experiences with the suffering of those hurt by the church, are issues so close to my heart it's honestly difficult for me to find the words to give you the answer you deserve.
At least right now, when *I* have started my Saturday night drinking.
ETA -- But I'll be back, and I'll try my best to express my thoughts on these issues. Until then... *raises glass*
You really should learn to laugh at yourself.