Galacticos or Not ?

to sign "galacticos" has only become necessary due to the lack of investment by the Glazers over the last years. Normally I prefer young players with great potential.
 
Heardy said:
A balance of both.

I'd love Ronaldo back as the figurehead of our attack, but then build a team with players like Depay to get greater balance.
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No doubt Ronaldo will be back for his swansong but not till the end of his career. He has quite a few years left at the top level.
 
NoLogo said:
I still feel the best way to go about building a new team that can have a good 3-4 year of dominance in the league and Europe would be to get the most promising players that are younger than 23 and if one of them should cost a fortune, well than we have to splash the cash. As long as we don't see the likes of Hazard and Pogba end up with our fiercest competitors.

So in essence get them before they are the big super stars, even if they are expensive.
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I completely agree. We need to buy players in the 19-24 range before they reach their full potentials.
 
Adebesi said:
Well I have to defer to your judgement on matters pertaining to Real but I must say I found the article made some sense. Would a player stay at Madrid if they knew the writing was on the wall for them there and they were no longer wanted? There were articles like this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...drid-after-signing-for-Manchester-United.html saying he didnt want to leave, so it is clearly not a simple case of "if he wanted to stay he could have stayed."

Even if you accept the general premise that arriving here was a comedown for him, it isnt black and white. Maybe he was up for it, up for making the most of it, but found Manchester wasnt what he expected, hasnt enjoyed working with Van Gaal, whatever. These things are easier to cope with in a way on the way up in your career, if you are coming from some second tier club or second tier league it might not bother you so much, but if you have grown accustomed to being at the very pinnacle of football, in Madrid or Barca, and then have to deal with these "hardships" (in inverted commas because its all relative, isnt it, most people wouldnt find playing PL football a hardship) it may get you down more.

Its like the old experiment, put one hand in a bowl of hot water, another in a bowl of cold water, and then both together in the same bowl of warm water, each hand will tell you something different about the temperature of the water. Similarly, a player coming from a lower level club will experience arriving at Man United differently from one arriving from one of the two most prestigious clubs in the world.

As I say, I only get my info about Di Maria from the press, you obviously know the specifics of his situation better than I do, but as a general rule I can see why trying to sign players from other elite clubs may prove problematic over time.
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Naah, I'm no expert on Real either. My point about the article was that it tries to read into Di Maria's body language here and then draw the conclusion that he doesnt want to be here which is why he isnt as good. I simply believe he's taking time to adjust to the league and especially our style which doesnt really suit his.

Anyways, as I said, I do agree that signing someone who desperately wants to be here is always a plus. But there is no substitute for quality. Loyalty, allegiance and how desperate players are to play for a particular club are overrated. I'd rather sign a top player than one from the 2nd tier even if he's desperate to play for us. Obviously, the 1st player shouldnt be a sulking cnut because he's leaving his older club.

Have to point out here though, there are really only 2 clubs that players would consider a step down if moving to us from. Real and Barca. Lets not restrict the thread to them as there are plenty of top players elsewhere and we arent really going to sign a player from these 2 anyways if they dont want to let him leave.
 
Honestly there's something extra special about signing a promising talent and seeing him flourish at United. With a top world class player, your expectations will always be high and there's a good chance he just won't fit in at the club.

Ideally it should be a mix of both. When (or if) United manage to keep a stable position at the top we can focus more on signing the up and coming talents.
 
Adebesi said:
Yes - unless we are successful. In which case whatever route we took was right. The proof, as they say, will be in the pudding.
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I suppose I meant the initial reaction to it. We had years of talk about how the Glazers hadn't allowed us to invest properly in the squad for a club of our size and stature, then when we did last summer, more than anyone had expected, our galactico policy meant that our "identity was broken".

As for the bolded bit I'm not sure the saying goes quite like that!
 
Varun said:
Naah, I'm no expert on Real either. My point about the article was that it tries to read into Di Maria's body language here and then draw the conclusion that he doesnt want to be here which is why he isnt as good. I simply believe he's taking time to adjust to the league and especially our style which doesnt really suit his.

Anyways, as I said, I do agree that signing someone who desperately wants to be here is always a plus. But there is no substitute for quality. Loyalty, allegiance and how desperate players are to play for a particular club are overrated. I'd rather sign a top player than one from the 2nd tier even if he's desperate to play for us. Obviously, the 1st player shouldnt be a sulking cnut because he's leaving his older club.

Have to point out here though, there are really only 2 clubs that players would consider a step down if moving to us from. Real and Barca. Lets not restrict the thread to them as there are plenty of top players elsewhere and we arent really going to sign a player from these 2 anyways if they dont want to let him leave.
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Yes, limiting to restrict it to that - once they arrive there, we've probably had it.

Though if you are talking about a galactico policy you are going to keep getting into bidding wars with these two clubs, particularly Real, and it will come down to what the player wants, and in most cases we will lose that. So you cant really avoid the shadow of these two clubs in this debate.
 
LR7 said:
I suppose I meant the initial reaction to it. We had years of talk about how the Glazers hadn't allowed us to invest properly in the squad for a club of our size and stature, then when we did last summer, more than anyone had expected, our galactico policy meant that our "identity was broken".

As for the bolded bit I'm not sure the saying goes quite like that!
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Oh yes. I always wondered about that, I assumed it was some kind of Chinese Fortune Cookie type thing.
 
We've always seen a balance between the marquee signing and more modest purchases. We've broken the transfer record on numerous occasions going back to the year dot. It wasn't that long ago that we spent £30M on Berba, it's just that we didn't do it in midfield until the last 2 years.
 
@Varun just realised I had you confused for a minute with @Vato - had you down as a Real fan.

But just one more thing - where I really do agree with you though is in the futility and, more than that, complete stupidity of reading too much into things like body language. For me, thinking Di Maria may not be happy here is more that he isnt performing well, plus just looking at his situation - how we are playing, the situation with the break in etc - and just making a judgement about how it would feel to be in his situation. I cant imagine it would feel great.

But at the same time there is no way I or anyone else can really know what he is thinking. We can only guess.
 
I'd rather buy a younger player who's gonna be world class rather than the finished article. When you buy a 20-23 year old destine for great things you get plenty of years of enjoyment and ability for the price, not to mention a resale value.

Depay, Koke, Pogba, Varane, Verratti, Thiago (pre Bayern/injury) These are the type of young but gonna make it big players we should be looking at.
 
Hazard is exactly the kind of signing we should have made - not now, but when he went to Chelsea. Clearly was going to be absolutely fantastic, on the up, young etc etc. I flinch whenever I see him on MOTD to be honest, if we'd signed him instead of Kagawa, who knows how things might have panned out.
 
Adebesi said:
Yes, limiting to restrict it to that - once they arrive there, we've probably had it.

Though if you are talking about a galactico policy you are going to keep getting into bidding wars with these two clubs, particularly Real, and it will come down to what the player wants, and in most cases we will lose that. So you cant really avoid the shadow of these two clubs in this debate.
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Different scenarios though. Us beating them to a player would indicate him wanting to come here anyways. Different to signing someone from them. Also, a lot depends on how it ends with the player there. The likes of Robben, Sneijder Sanchez, etc (there are more but I have an absolute shit memory) went on to/will go on to have better careers.
 
Adebesi said:
@Varun just realised I had you confused for a minute with @Vato - had you down as a Real fan.

But just one more thing - where I really do agree with you though is in the futility and, more than that, complete stupidity of reading too much into things like body language. For me, thinking Di Maria may not be happy here is more that he isnt performing well, plus just looking at his situation - how we are playing, the situation with the break in etc - and just making a judgement about how it would feel to be in his situation. I cant imagine it would feel great.

But at the same time there is no way I or anyone else can really know what he is thinking. We can only guess.
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Ah, that explains why you thought I'd know more than most about Real.
 
Varun said:
Wow. Weird to hear someone not wanting the ones I've listed but fair enough if you actually think so.

Ideally, I feel a club needs to find the right mix. Use the academy to produce solid squad players, buy some talents just before they hit their peak for the 1st team and then buy top established players to complete the set. Too ideal a scenario though.
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I dont know what is wierd about wanting us to buy players with their best years ahead of them.
 
If by Galacticos you mean big name players who are the flavour of the moment then no.
If by Galacticos you mean expensive and top classnplayers then yes if they are worth the money (in football terms) and are the best option available.

JB7 said:
Transfer strategy should focus on bringing in the best players for the club at that moment in time. To me, I don't give a toss whether we sign a left back from Welling FC for £25,000 or a striker from Real Madrid for £100,000,00, as long as they fit the club and go on to improve us.
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Agreed. We shouldn't sign players based on reputation or past success but players can cost large amounts of money and still be ambitious and want to improve (Ronaldo is probably the best example).
 
Adebesi said:
For me, we should be looking to sign the next Messi.

I dont mean identify an up and coming talent, we tried that and it doesnt work. We need to sign superstars for tens of millions of pounds.

But not Messi. We need to wait until the next Messi comes along and pounce on him.
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Could you warn us all when the next Messi is due? Better still, when you've actually identified him? Are they like buses - a new Messi at regular intervals, or does Messi have to die first?
 
Adebesi said:
Hazard is exactly the kind of signing we should have made - not now, but when he went to Chelsea. Clearly was going to be absolutely fantastic, on the up, young etc etc. I flinch whenever I see him on MOTD to be honest, if we'd signed him instead of Kagawa, who knows how things might have panned out.
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We were never going to sign him though - he grew up watching the likes of Eddie Newton and Frank Sinclair and just knew Chelsea was the team for him.
 
Adebesi said:
Youve got the wrong idea about buses. You can go ages with no Messi at all and then two of them come at once.
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You're right. Does that make Ronaldo a Messi?
Because that would mean we actually had a Messi a little while ago. Or did he only become a Messi when Madrid paid £80 million for him.
 
I agree with the general opinion on this thread. We all would like a team of home grown players and wouldn't be particularly be fond of a collection of ready made stars. Considering the modern climate, we have to reach a compromise and look for some balance between the two. I don't care about money at all, in fact I think it was a huge mistake not pay what was necessary for Hazard for example. What I don't want though is a team made of ready made players regardless of their price tag, The nucleus of the team should be home grown and players who developed during their time at the club like Evra, Vidic, Hazard, Zabaleta, Ivanovic and such. The van Persies and di Maria should complement the team and not be the majority. Again this doesn't take money into consideration whatsoever, just the profile of the players.

The reason I am saying this is coming from en emotional and practical point of view. For the former, it is simply a question of bond and connection, nothing beats a team that we as fans can witness grow. As for the latter, I genuinely believe it doesn't give results proportional to the investment and the best example for me is Real Madrid and their relative under-performance when it comes to trophies won during both their Galagticos eras. To break the world record fee twice in one summer and 3 times in the past 5 years and have 1 league title and 1 CL and a couple of Cups to show for it is simply mediocre. This is why I feel that buying established player not only lessens the connection and identity of the team but they usually come with very little to prove and too much ego which if it's allowed to dominate the team can be very harmful.
 
Adebesi said:
Hazard is exactly the kind of signing we should have made - not now, but when he went to Chelsea. Clearly was going to be absolutely fantastic, on the up, young etc etc. I flinch whenever I see him on MOTD to be honest, if we'd signed him instead of Kagawa, who knows hohings might have panned out.
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Would have been nice, but after his public flirtation and personal vanity project.where he kept certain fans guessing by stating "the English team I sign for will wear blue" completely stopped that deal in its tracks.
I thought the way he handled the whole affair showed his character in a bad light. I suppose we have to adapt in signing these primadonnas now, bow to their agents and pay them a kings ransom, ala Lucas Moura, Dinho, Hazard, Essien, Mikel, Silva and whoever else slipped through the net.

It's the sign of the times and one I an finding hard as a fan to adjust to, it seems we are prepared to stump up since Woody has taken the reigns, time Wil tell if we can replicate our recent success under the master, or if we are pissing our budget into the wind.
 
Gopher Brown said:
We were never going to sign him though - he grew up watching the likes of Eddie Newton and Frank Sinclair and just knew Chelsea was the team for him.
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Yes. I saw an interview with him once where he said he thought Kerry Dixon was better than Pele.

SirBobbysCombover said:
Would have been nice, but after his public flirtation and personal vanity project.where he kept certain fans guessing by stating "the English team I sign for will wear blue" completely stopped that deal in its tracks.
I thought the way he handled the whole affair showed his character in a bad light. I suppose we have to adapt in signing these primadonnas now, bow to their agents and pay them a kings ransom, ala Lucas Moura, Dinho, Hazard, Essien, Mikel, Silva and whoever else slipped through the net.

It's the sign of the times and one I an finding hard as a fan to adjust to, it seems we are prepared to stump up since Woody has taken the reigns, time Wil tell if we can replicate our recent success under the master, or if we are pissing our budget into the wind.
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Im assuming we could have done more to secure him before he said that but yes, if a player clearly wants to be somewhere else then its better not to force the issue.
 
The ideal situation is to sign only players that are or have the potential to be the best and complete our squad with academy players. It doesn't matter how much money the players cost, as long as they are good enough.

The days when you could sign a player nobody heard with high potential for a low fee are long gone, these days you have to pay top money even for potential.

Also, I think most of the players you chose as an example would cost 30-40M, so I don't think their price is so reasonable.
 
GloryHunter07 said:
Sorry whats wierd with that exactly?!
Can you actually read?
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Should be self explanatory after I bolded the bit I'm referring to.

Not wanting the likes of Messi, Ronaldo etc unless they come "very cheap" is weird.
 
I think this post Ferguson transition period is very dangerous, United won't become unable to compete at the very top, but I think we lack some of the allure to top players as a club. It's not often you hear a top player say they want to play at United above all others, that they grew up watching Giggs and Scholes, Ronaldo and Rooney.

Everyone and their dog these days grew up watching Real, because they had huge stars. Ronaldo wanted to go there even though they were a mess, because of who played there in the past. Not because it's Real, because of the players who wore the shirt.

We need those sort of players if we're going to try to get that sort of bonus. We don't have SAF to draw players to us anymore, we're going to need to use our money to get top players, and top managers who these top players want to play for, aka NOT David Moyes.
 
gooDevil said:
I think this post Ferguson transition period is very dangerous, United won't become unable to compete at the very top, but I think we lack some of the allure to top players as a club. It's not often you hear a top player say they want to play at United above all others, that they grew up watching Giggs and Scholes, Ronaldo and Rooney.

Everyone and their dog these days grew up watching Real, because they had huge stars. Ronaldo wanted to go there even though they were a mess, because of who played there in the past. Not because it's Real, because of the players who wore the shirt.

We need those sort of players if we're going to try to get that sort of bonus. We don't have SAF to draw players to us anymore, we're going to need to use our money to get top players, and top managers who these top players want to play for, aka NOT David Moyes.
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Its interesting isnt it. You can ridicule the Perez strategy all you like, and many of us did. I certainly have a special antipathy towards Real because of the way they conduct themselves, the way people hate bankers and billionaire playboys. But there is a genius to the strategy because, as you said, it becomes self fulfilling. You buy all the best players and then the next football generation all the best players dream of playing for you.
 
We should have a big financial advantage over Madrid in the next few years, I think we might see us breaking he transfer fee record over and over again like Real Madrid have in the last 15 years.
 
If they don't fit, why bother? RM can get away with it since they & Barca are heads & shoulders above the rest of La Liga, especially financially, and won't get kicked out of a CL spot if they got the wrong players. At worst, they'd be 3rd or 4th, reboot the next season, buying & selling as needed, and probably win their crappy league. We're in no position to gamble like that. Just look at Liverpool and what a few bad seasons can cost you. Granted, Liverpool aren't in the same league financially as us, but it doesn't seem we're getting the pick of the world class galacticos now either. Sure we got ADM & Mata, but let's be honest, they currently don't fit. ADM probably will, but Mata (or another 1 or 2 of the #10 wanna-be's) has to go. When's the last time we got a true galactico or bona fide up & comer? Probably the last one was RVP, as ADM & Mata fell into our laps. I won't count Falcao, unless he overcomes his malaise and actually is worth buying.

Our outlay last summer is as much the market knowing we were in trouble as much as buying true galacticos. If 2013-14 had never happened, do you think we'd have spent as much as we did for what we got? If you told me we got a pre-injury Falcao along with the rest for 150 mil, I might've been ecstatic, but we didn't. Unfortunately, it seems we're in the position of paying galactico rates for good, but not great players. Heck, we're lucky we dodged a bullet and didn't pay for Hargo 2.0 (i.e. Strootman).
 
Adebesi said:
Hazard is exactly the kind of signing we should have made - not now, but when he went to Chelsea. Clearly was going to be absolutely fantastic, on the up, young etc etc. I flinch whenever I see him on MOTD to be honest, if we'd signed him instead of Kagawa, who knows how things might have panned out.
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When you look at what we lost selling Kagawa back to Dortmund, it's pretty much exactly the agent fee we baulked at paying to Hazards agent. That sums up the false economy of a lot of "value" purchases for me.
 
Adebesi said:
Hazard is exactly the kind of signing we should have made - not now, but when he went to Chelsea. Clearly was going to be absolutely fantastic, on the up, young etc etc. I flinch whenever I see him on MOTD to be honest, if we'd signed him instead of Kagawa, who knows how things might have panned out.
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I hate the fact we lost out on hazard because SAF didn't want to pay his Agent 6m. It stinks because of all the shit purchases we were making at that time.
I always thought hazard and modric (who was there for the taking as well) were MUFC type players.
 
ravi2 said:
I hate the fact we lost out on hazard because SAF didn't want to pay his Agent 6m. It stinks because of all the shit purchases we were making at that time.
I always thought hazard and modric (who was there for the taking as well) were MUFC type players.
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SAF not paying agent fees is not the reason our squad is not "world class level" any more. In the season we missed out on Hazard we bought the best player in the Premier League who won us the title straight away. Kagawa was also one of the best players in the budesliga and had a decent first season under Ferguson.

The problem was summer 2013, this was when we needed to make 2/3 top class class signings to push on and win the Champions League, we all know what happened instead. We ended up overpaying for players we didn't even need and our squad become worse. Even this summer we only signed 1 world class player (not including Falcao is on loan).
 
Possibly you missed out on Hazard over money (Arsenal certainly did) but he hasn't been all that at Chelsea given his talent. Galactorama fecked Real in the end .
 
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