Fred: the enigma

You can't really dislike Fred.

I think he does the same things every single match, but when things aren't going well for him that game or he's a bit off pace, he doesn't seem to have the self awareness to reign it in and play safe. Still goes about his business and looks terrible - never seen him lose confidence. Which is great really, when you compare to somone on the other end of the spectrum like Van de Beek who played within himself and never regained confidence.

Fred could misplace loads of 5 yard passes, then still try and thread a 60 yard through ball when he next gets the ball. And his self belief in long range shots is funny (if we're winning)
 
Probably another case of "what if he had played under a good coach" in all those years here.
 
Today Fred showing Antony how to finish.

At least one Brazilian brilliance bring the ball under control, a no look, ball behind him, flick that went to a team mate and sent him on his way.

Man thinks he's Pelé.
 
Maybe it was me but couldn't see a player in him when he came to the club and wondered what we'd bought. Looking back at some of my posts were embarassing.
Not sure if he should start every game but an invaluable squad player and a great option from the bench. You couldn't find a better player with a better attitude than him. He's certainly got a lot more in his locker than he showed when he came and he's still right side of 30. Reckon the manager loves him too!
 
simplyared said:
Maybe it was me but couldn't see a player in him when he came to the club and wondered what we'd bought. Looking back at some of my posts were embarassing.
Not sure if he should start every game but an invaluable squad player and a great option from the bench. You couldn't find a better player with a better attitude than him. He's certainly got a lot more in his locker than he showed when he came and he's still right side of 30. Reckon the manager loves him too!
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I don’t think you’ve said anything embarrassing. I still don’t trust Fred and don’t think Ten Hag does fully. He’s not the level we need in the first XI but you’re right in that he’s a useful squad player. I can see why he’s been extended.

That said we obviously spent 50m on him to play. In that sense he’s been a failure. I’m still not sure what his best position is and feel he’s better higher up the pitch pressing the ball. His lapses are less destructive in the final third, especially when he’s constantly careless in possession.

The problem is he is never going to nail down a spot in a more forward role as he’s not good enough to displace what we have in terms of attacking output.

A useful option, nothing more.
 
TheReligion said:
I don’t think you’ve said anything embarrassing. I still don’t trust Fred and don’t think Ten Hag does fully. He’s not the level we need in the first XI but you’re right in that he’s a useful squad player. I can see why he’s been extended.

That said we obviously spent 50m on him to play. In that sense he’s been a failure. I’m still not sure what his best position is and feel he’s better higher up the pitch pressing the ball. His lapses are less destructive in the final third, especially when he’s constantly careless in possession.

The problem is he is never going to nail down a spot in a more forward role as he’s not good enough to displace what we have in terms of attacking output.

A useful option, nothing more.
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It's nice to see comments about Fred that don't rate him as 'our worst buy ever', well balanced and interesting.
Fred is similar to McTominay in my opinion, both capable of very good performances, but also capable of poor performances, I think you call that inconsistency. Fred certainly is a better player when further forward, and has never been a DM, and is capable of some remarkable skills, but when his technique lets him down, he can be punished by other teams in a deeper lying positions.
I think that we may sell Fred in the summer, and bring Hannibal into the set up, and McTominay will stay for a couple of seasons, Fred at the moment is certainly a good option from the bench.
 
Eliminator of Brazil. That brainless dribble to a dead end during the WC game against Croatia (which led to the decisive goal) is hard to forget. The problem with Fred is that those moments are the norm by his standards and he simply will cost us in some games just like he did with his National team. Sorry but its best to move on now.
 
red woppit said:
It's nice to see comments about Fred that don't rate him as 'our worst buy ever', well balanced and interesting.
Fred is similar to McTominay in my opinion, both capable of very good performances, but also capable of poor performances, I think you call that inconsistency. Fred certainly is a better player when further forward, and has never been a DM, and is capable of some remarkable skills, but when his technique lets him down, he can be punished by other teams in a deeper lying positions.
I think that we may sell Fred in the summer, and bring Hannibal into the set up, and McTominay will stay for a couple of seasons, Fred at the moment is certainly a good option from the bench.
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Yeah I agree with you. I think the plus with Mctominay is he didn’t cost us anything, is a bit younger and does give us a more physical presence.

Can certainly see the logic in phasing Fred out over the next 12 months for Hannibal.
 
The thing is with Fred he would have missed that goal 4/5 times. We need an upgrade on him to improve.
 
He's very inconsistent indeed but honestly he has been one of our best buys post Fergie. Doesn't say much since the quality of these purchases has been mostly awful but Fred had given a lot to the team so far even while being as inconsistent as he's.

I'll happily keep him even if he's not a permanent main starter. Very useful to have around.
 
Fred and Maguire are our 50m and 100m squad players.
 
wolvored said:
The thing is with Fred he would have missed that goal 4/5 times. We need an upgrade on him to improve.
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Thought he was poor before the goal and gave the ball away a few times. He has the attributes to be a decent backup but always takes a run of games to get into form, which doesn't really make him an ideal squad player off the bench
 
Lynty said:
You can't really dislike Fred.

I think he does the same things every single match, but when things aren't going well for him that game or he's a bit off pace, he doesn't seem to have the self awareness to reign it in and play safe. Still goes about his business and looks terrible - never seen him lose confidence. Which is great really, when you compare to somone on the other end of the spectrum like Van de Beek who played within himself and never regained confidence.

Fred could misplace loads of 5 yard passes, then still try and thread a 60 yard through ball when he next gets the ball. And his self belief in long range shots is funny (if we're winning)
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have you noticed that, Fred pass with his left foot, shoot with his right foot. So it really depends on where the ball comes from and whether he has time to adjust.

The fact that he scored with his left foot at 10Y, should not be taken for granted.
 
Against Bournemouth for the 20 minutes he was on he didn't put a foot wrong. I think he must have had 100% pass completion and every pass was calm and precise, the majority of them being first time and forward and some of them sharp and penetrating. He was supreme, but because it was Fred he doesn't even get a mention in the post match thread that I have read so far.
 
Stig said:
Against Bournemouth for the 20 minutes he was on he didn't put a foot wrong. I think he must have had 100% pass completion and every pass was calm and precise, the majority of them being first time and forward and some of them sharp and penetrating. He was supreme, but because it was Fred he doesn't even get a mention in the post match thread that I have read so far.
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Most people just comment on the match in general or the players they think were the best or worst in the post match thread. Fred's gotten a lot of praise in his performance thread.
 
Look-a-Hill said:
Everytime Fred touches the ball the God's toss a coin.
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Stig said:
Against Bournemouth for the 20 minutes he was on he didn't put a foot wrong. I think he must have had 100% pass completion and every pass was calm and precise, the majority of them being first time and forward and some of them sharp and penetrating. He was supreme, but because it was Fred he doesn't even get a mention in the post match thread that I have read so far.
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Because we were roasting Bournemouth when he came in, there was no urgency or sense that points needed to be rescued. In days past, that’s when you give the starlets minutes, not a player who cost £56 million. Basically when there’s no pressure and we aren’t chasing the game, Fred plays with his head up and enjoys himself. He’s not really suited to a sub role because he isn’t the player who will get us that goal in the dying minutes, and he isn’t the player who will help repel attacks when the opponent throws everything at us. I think we have now seen what a midfield is supposed to look like, and we can’t go back to the erratic Fred “style”. He seems like a nice, pleasant guy, but he’s not United quality and never has been, at least not the United that wins things.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
Because we were roasting Bournemouth when he came in, there was no urgency or sense that points needed to be rescued. In days past, that’s when you give the starlets minutes, not a player who cost £56 million. Basically when there’s no pressure and we aren’t chasing the game, Fred plays with his head up and enjoys himself. He’s not really suited to a sub role because he isn’t the player who will get us that goal in the dying minutes, and he isn’t the player who will help repel attacks when the opponent throws everything at us. I think we have now seen what a midfield is supposed to look like, and we can’t go back to the erratic Fred “style”. He seems like a nice, pleasant guy, but he’s not United quality and never has been, at least not the United that wins things.
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Such a bizarre post after a game where Fred was fantastic as a sub.
 
DarkXaero said:
No, I didn't miss the point. He's a defensive minded midfielder who is brought on to see out games, which is what he has done lately.
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He absolutely is not defensive minded. That’s among the worst aspects of his game, including shooting accuracy. So you did miss the point. But if you like Fred, that’s fine, it’s just that I don’t.
 
Stig said:
Against Bournemouth for the 20 minutes he was on he didn't put a foot wrong. I think he must have had 100% pass completion and every pass was calm and precise, the majority of them being first time and forward and some of them sharp and penetrating. He was supreme, but because it was Fred he doesn't even get a mention in the post match thread that I have read so far.
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People dont like Fred and his reputation is bad. They are stuck in that Fred is shit and wont change their opinion. He was faultless when he came on yesterday and everything he did was good. A lot of interceptions and excellent passing forward but he is rated with a 6.6 in the match thread. Eriksen did not have a good game and was taken off for Fred and he also has a 6.6 rating.

As long as Fred will be a Manchester United game he wont get the praise he deserves after having a good game. When he doesnt have a good game (doesnt even have to be a bad one, just played average or invisible) he will get major criticism. It will be really hard for him to change that perception. He can do ten things perfect but after making one small mistake people will take that moment to be able to shout out ''SEE I WAS RIGHT, FRED IS SHIT!'.
 
Fred is an OK squad player that we could use as a sub and in rotation against weaker teams, when we have nobody better. We can also do much better and when we start competing for trophies we will have to do better. You do not want to have Fred starting against the likes of City or Arsenal, if you want to have a chance in those games.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
He absolutely is not defensive minded. That’s among the worst aspects of his game, including shooting accuracy. So you did miss the point. But if you like Fred, that’s fine, it’s just that I don’t.
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He absolutely is defensive minded. He's aggressive and presses heavily. He isn't a sit back and defend player, but he added the much needed energy once we started losing control of the midfield.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
Because we were roasting Bournemouth when he came in, there was no urgency or sense that points needed to be rescued. In days past, that’s when you give the starlets minutes, not a player who cost £56 million. Basically when there’s no pressure and we aren’t chasing the game, Fred plays with his head up and enjoys himself. He’s not really suited to a sub role because he isn’t the player who will get us that goal in the dying minutes, and he isn’t the player who will help repel attacks when the opponent throws everything at us. I think we have now seen what a midfield is supposed to look like, and we can’t go back to the erratic Fred “style”. He seems like a nice, pleasant guy, but he’s not United quality and never has been, at least not the United that wins things.
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I tend to disagree here. He came on at a time when we were only 2 goals up and Bournemouth had just created some dangerous chances requiring good saves from De Gea (Billings header and follow up header, then the chance Anthont had where Billing flicked it through to him for a 1v1).
Eriksen was looking leggy and we needed someone to come in with energy and to play some incisive quick passes to get through the Bournemouth pressing. If they’d carried on like that we’d have conceded for sure and been only a goal up with 20 mins left.
He came in and secured the win, even nearly getting an assist with the Garnacho chance which hit the post.
Any title winning team needs midfield depth like that
 
macheda14 said:
He absolutely is defensive minded. He's aggressive and presses heavily. He isn't a sit back and defend player, but he added the much needed energy once we started losing control of the midfield.
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I don't think he is particularly defensive minded, he's brought on, IMO, for situational awareness, he's very good at reading the game, what's going on and what's needs to be done

He's becoming more popular because fans are starting to recognize that for all his limitations he gives his all
 
Was great last night and came on at a key moment. Bruno seemed to really improve also when he came on.
 
macheda14 said:
He absolutely is defensive minded. He's aggressive and presses heavily. He isn't a sit back and defend player, but he added the much needed energy once we started losing control of the midfield.
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I think you’re misinterpreting what “defensive minded” means. It’s not that Fred doesn’t try to help win the ball back, it’s that he by disposition is a bad defender with bad positioning and bad technique for actual defending. He gets brushed off like he’s a child. Making Fred play defensively with McT emphasized the worst aspects of his game while hampering the good side of it.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
I think you’re misinterpreting what “defensive minded” means. It’s not that Fred doesn’t try to help win the ball back, it’s that he by disposition is a bad defender with bad positioning and bad technique for actual defending. He gets brushed off like he’s a child. Making Fred play defensively with McT emphasized the worst aspects of his game while hampering the good side of it.
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Looks like you're misinterpreting what "defensive minded" means. Just because he doesn't fit your quality criteria, doesn't mean that he doesn't play with a defensive mindset. Key word is "minded", not a quality based adjective.
 
Stadjer said:
People dont like Fred and his reputation is bad. They are stuck in that Fred is shit and wont change their opinion. He was faultless when he came on yesterday and everything he did was good. A lot of interceptions and excellent passing forward but he is rated with a 6.6 in the match thread. Eriksen did not have a good game and was taken off for Fred and he also has a 6.6 rating.

As long as Fred will be a Manchester United game he wont get the praise he deserves after having a good game. When he doesnt have a good game (doesnt even have to be a bad one, just played average or invisible) he will get major criticism. It will be really hard for him to change that perception. He can do ten things perfect but after making one small mistake people will take that moment to be able to shout out ''SEE I WAS RIGHT, FRED IS SHIT!'.
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This is spot on. People have their agendas and narratives, and they find it extremely hard to move past it.
 
Again, the main point is we have a £56 million bench player who turns 30 in 2 months. He’s not an impact sub, he’s not the game winner a manager turns to in desperation, throwing him on to save the points. He’s been a massive disappointment and we were rinsed in the deal. We should have tried to sell him, as he’s not good enough to start under ETH, he’s not a developing player who needs the minutes to hone his game, and he’s not a super sub like Ole who can turn around a game or rescue a lost cause. I don’t care that he gives his all: that is literally the bare minimum standard.
 
DarkXaero said:
Looks like you're misinterpreting what "defensive minded" means. Just because he doesn't fit your quality criteria, doesn't mean that he doesn't play with a defensive mindset. Key word is "minded", not a quality based adjective.
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Oh, right, he keeps the idea of defending firmly in mind while running about not doing any of it. Makes sense.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
Oh, right, he keeps the idea of defending firmly in mind while running about not doing any of it. Makes sense.
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He recovered the ball very well yesterday. He's usually excellent at winning the ball back high up the pitch. He is not a lone DM if that what you mean by him being a bad defender.
 
Stadjer said:
People dont like Fred and his reputation is bad. They are stuck in that Fred is shit and wont change their opinion. He was faultless when he came on yesterday and everything he did was good. A lot of interceptions and excellent passing forward but he is rated with a 6.6 in the match thread. Eriksen did not have a good game and was taken off for Fred and he also has a 6.6 rating.

As long as Fred will be a Manchester United game he wont get the praise he deserves after having a good game. When he doesnt have a good game (doesnt even have to be a bad one, just played average or invisible) he will get major criticism. It will be really hard for him to change that perception. He can do ten things perfect but after making one small mistake people will take that moment to be able to shout out ''SEE I WAS RIGHT, FRED IS SHIT!'.
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That's just the nature of this place I'm afraid. Rashford will be back in the "sell him" books as soon as he doesn't score for more than 1 game. Bissaka needs to have 3 assists per game to be considered as better than garbage. People get stuck on ore conceived opinions.

The thing with Fred is, I like him, but he is erratic and isnt suited to every game or situation. He's one of those where if he was an F1 driver you'd never be quite sure if he's going to win the grand prix, or accidentally reverse from the starting line and crash into/explode his own pit stop area.

Eriksen is a completely different player but his awareness, vision and composure are just on a different level. Not just compared to Fred but compared to most players in the league. His 5 or 6/10 level is good enough that you can still rely on him, and that's something our midfield has constantly missed since Carrick got too old.

I don't know if Fred even has a 6/10 level. He's either an 8 or above, or drops right down to a 3...and sometimes swaps freely between one and other other during a game. He's great if you need someone to run Spurs into the ground, add a bit of energy, or give you some extra mobility while still offering the potential to come up with moments of genuine quality. Not so great if you just want to cruise to a routine win while controlling the game and picking the right balls at the right time, with minimal doses of random chaos.

Ten Hag seems to trust him and I reckon he'll play more second half of the season as he offers something different
 
Stig said:
Against Bournemouth for the 20 minutes he was on he didn't put a foot wrong. I think he must have had 100% pass completion and every pass was calm and precise, the majority of them being first time and forward and some of them sharp and penetrating. He was supreme, but because it was Fred he doesn't even get a mention in the post match thread that I have read so far.
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He actually did, 19 successful passes out of 19 attempts.
 
noodlehair said:
That's just the nature of this place I'm afraid. Rashford will be back in the "sell him" books as soon as he doesn't score for more than 1 game. Bissaka needs to have 3 assists per game to be considered as better than garbage. People get stuck on ore conceived opinions.

The thing with Fred is, I like him, but he is erratic and isnt suited to every game or situation. He's one of those where if he was an F1 driver you'd never be quite sure if he's going to win the grand prix, or accidentally reverse from the starting line and crash into/explode his own pit stop area.

Eriksen is a completely different player but his awareness, vision and composure are just on a different level. Not just compared to Fred but compared to most players in the league. His 5 or 6/10 level is good enough that you can still rely on him, and that's something our midfield has constantly missed since Carrick got too old.

I don't know if Fred even has a 6/10 level. He's either an 8 or above, or drops right down to a 3...and sometimes swaps freely between one and other other during a game. He's great if you need someone to run Spurs into the ground, add a bit of energy, or give you some extra mobility while still offering the potential to come up with moments of genuine quality. Not so great if you just want to cruise to a routine win while controlling the game and picking the right balls at the right time, with minimal doses of random chaos.

Ten Hag seems to trust him and I reckon he'll play more second half of the season as he offers something different
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This description should please both sets of fans. I totally agree with it, and I’m anti-Fred.
 
Ole'sattheWheel said:
I tend to disagree here. He came on at a time when we were only 2 goals up and Bournemouth had just created some dangerous chances requiring good saves from De Gea (Billings header and follow up header, then the chance Anthont had where Billing flicked it through to him for a 1v1).
Eriksen was looking leggy and we needed someone to come in with energy and to play some incisive quick passes to get through the Bournemouth pressing. If they’d carried on like that we’d have conceded for sure and been only a goal up with 20 mins left.
He came in and secured the win, even nearly getting an assist with the Garnacho chance which hit the post.
Any title winning team needs midfield depth like that
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Title winning needs a bit better than Fred, for sure. Just look at City's midfield squad players. They have Grealish and Bernardo Silva on the bench, we have McT and Fred. Not the same. That said, I agree with most of your analysis – Fred was useful yesterday.

As far as Fred's future with us is concerned, smart money is on using him as much as we can for the rest of the season, selling him in the summer and using money from his sale to fund a purchase of a player that works better for us. You know - the basics of proper recruitment department.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
Again, the main point is we have a £56 million bench player who turns 30 in 2 months. He’s not an impact sub, he’s not the game winner a manager turns to in desperation, throwing him on to save the points. He’s been a massive disappointment and we were rinsed in the deal. We should have tried to sell him, as he’s not good enough to start under ETH, he’s not a developing player who needs the minutes to hone his game, and he’s not a super sub like Ole who can turn around a game or rescue a lost cause. I don’t care that he gives his all: that is literally the bare minimum standard.
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By the criteria for a substitute you're using here, the only good sub options are strikers.

Fred's a good depth option at the 8 position (Mourinho playing him and Pogba at the 6 :wenger:), has the right attitude, enjoys being at the club and can "do a job" in multiple positions. Having veteran depth options is not a bad thing.
 
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