[mu4c_20le]

I thought he was pretty poor when he came on. Looked like he needed a run of 4-6 games to get back to his 'good' level.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

McTominay has height for set pieces. Which is pretty important when casemiro is injured to be fair. I was ok with him when eriksen was playing with him at the start of the season, he was a good foil for him
I think Freds a better player, i think mctominay might be better casemiro cover. I'd probably want to move both on pretty soon and Freds contract being up doesn't help his case.
Its another thing thats kind of in limbo because its dependent on if we have money to spend on replacements and how much. We might need to keep both

I don’t think Fred is great or anything. In fact he can be a right liability when he’s having one of his panic attack days. I’ve often said that he’s naturally quite talented but remains that 18 year old talent that is sometimes nervous, sometimes sloppy and someone’s excellent which is odd for a player of his experience.

But on the other Mctominay is just a central midfielder. The bloke can barely pass the football and most of the time actively avoids it.

One should be backup and the other sold. If it were up to me next season this would be our midfield

Casmiero
New playmaking CM (like a FDJ alternative)
Eriksen
Bruno
New CM/DM who is also a good passer or dribbler (like the kid from STH)
Fred

Essentially our midfield lacks players who have time and quality to build up moves. That’s why I’d add two players who help with that and let McTominay and Sabitzer go. Or keep Sabitzer and get rid of Fred but based on what I’ve seen I’d prefer the latter.

Knowing us we will sign Sabitzer, keep Fred and sign 1 CM leaving us light in the buildup department again

 

[AjaxCunian]

Notice also that our opponents are happy to let him shoot, they almost never try to stop one of his errant missiles into row z.

whoever said it here first should be lionized, but that comment about Fred being excellent at breaking up play for both teams is bang on the money.

Agreed, he's very overrated on here for some reason. He has even been compared to the likes of Kante, just rubbish.

In specific set-ups he may be useful at times but is nowhere near the required level.

 

[Ekeke]

Agreed, he's very overrated on here for some reason. He has even been compared to the likes of Kante, just rubbish.

In specific set-ups he may be useful at times but is nowhere near the required level.

People see that he can make a nice pass between the lines or finding someone in attack, and then ignore the next 5 attempts which go high, wide and straight to the opponent.

Fred can do things. But what he will consistently do every game, what you can count on him to do, is run around a lot. Then you might get a decent passing performance, or he might keep giving the ball to the opponent. He might might give you a dribble or two, or he might go down at the first contact with the opponent and lose the ball. He might give you several good tackles and an interception in midfield, or he might run around and barely win the ball or let players past him too easily and not track back his man when the opponents are on attack. He might join up with the attack and put the ball in the net. Or he might miss a sitter from a few yards out. He might put in a really good performance against Barcelona, or like happens more often much lesser teams press him when he receives the ball in his own half and he loses the ball leading to counter attacks.

Now all players have some degree of inconsistancy. Fred's is one of the wildest. Because there are things we've seen he can do at certain points. But you can never ever count on him to do it over several games. He can have a fantastic game like against Barcelona and then the next week we could play a team in the relegation battle and he's the 4th best central midfielder of the 4 on the pitch. By now we know thats what he is. Occasionally can come in and do very well on his day, but most of the time a substandard option thats easily improved on especially in terms of consistent performance.

Now McTominay... The truth is to this day the best thing about him is him getting forward and shooting. We saw again with Scotland. For me neither are good enough in terms of doing the consistent overall job of what I want to see from our midfielders. Yes they're both better ball winners than Eriksen... Eriksen is weak at it and anyone we sign is likely also better at it.

 

[MadDogg]

Now all players have some degree of inconsistancy. Fred's is one of the wildest. Because there are things we've seen he can do at certain points. But you can never ever count on him to do it over several games. He can have a fantastic game like against Barcelona and then the next week we could play a team in the relegation battle and he's the 4th best central midfielder of the 4 on the pitch. By now we know thats what he is. Occasionally can come in and do very well on his day, but most of the time a substandard option thats easily improved on especially in terms of consistent performance.

Has Fred really been 'that' inconsistent since playing in the more advanced position that he obviously always should have been playing in? He was our best player in the second half of last season, and after an admittedly poor start to this season he's been fairly good since (the one truly bad performance was when he was played in the deepest role against Leeds).

I feel like a lot of the criticism comes from when he spent waaaaaaay too long being played in a position that he obviously wasn't suited to. With the guy you are responding to mentioning Kante, I think it's worth noting that the one season Chelsea tried to play Kante in that role he was poor and everyone was saying he was finished, then they moved him back to his normal role and he was instantly the best in the world at what he does again. Fred obviously isn't that level, but that change in position is huge.

 

[Bebestation]

Agreed, he's very overrated on here for some reason. He has even been compared to the likes of Kante, just rubbish.

In specific set-ups he may be useful at times but is nowhere near the required level.

just Rubbish.

The vast majority don’t rate Fred to Kante - just that Fred is our Kante.

We don’t need to find a similar player to Kante or Fred because we have a good option in Fred for what he offers.

 

[MadDogg]

just Rubbish.

No one rated Fred to Kante - just that Fred is our Kante.

To be fair there were some that did. Not many, but enough that it became something that critics like to remember and laugh at. Like the one guy who mentioned Ronaldinho when talking about Grealish and now that is forever mentioned on this forum as if everyone who rated him thought that.

 

[Kostov]

just Rubbish.

The vast majority don’t rate Fred to Kante - just that Fred is our Kante.

We don’t need to find a similar player to Kante or Fred because we have a good option in Fred for what he offers.

No, he is just our Fred.

 

[AjaxCunian]

just Rubbish.

The vast majority don’t rate Fred to Kante - just that Fred is our Kante.

We don’t need to find a similar player to Kante or Fred because we have a good option in Fred for what he offers.

You have a poor memory.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/kante-or-fred.453699/page-2

 

[Ekeke]

Has Fred really been 'that' inconsistent since playing in the more advanced position that he obviously always should have been playing in? He was our best player in the second half of last season, and after an admittedly poor start to this season he's been fairly good since (the one truly bad performance was when he was played in the deepest role against Leeds).

I feel like a lot of the criticism comes from when he spent waaaaaaay too long being played in a position that he obviously wasn't suited to. With the guy you are responding to mentioning Kante, I think it's worth noting that the one season Chelsea tried to play Kante in that role he was poor and everyone was saying he was finished, then they moved him back to his normal role and he was instantly the best in the world at what he does again. Fred obviously isn't that level, but that change in position is huge.

Yes imo. He was terrible until Barcelona.

 

[Bebestation]

You have a poor memory.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/kante-or-fred.453699/page-2

Okay what if this is about Kante being missing for ages and Fred being better than him?

Kante has been a ghost in the last couple of seasons.

Fred doesn’t have the success of Kante to ever be better than him - but Fred has been better than him in the last few seasons especially after Kante injuries.

Plenty of the fanbase saying no Kante was better in that thread.

 

[Rasha992]

Fred looks much better when he's not on the ball and has lesser time to think.
You ask him to dictate play and its going to go poorly.
Anyone remember that Troy Deeney interview from a few years back?
He was saying that with Fred you just need to give him the ball and wait, he'll give it back to you multiple times a game.
I think he's useful as a rotation option but I wouldn't be upset if we sold him IF we got a suitable replacement on top of the already required ones.
He's more useful than Scott imo, if one had to go, I'd prefer it to be Scott.

 

[Bestietom]

For me he blows hot and cold. Not consistent enough, and his passing can be terrible when he is bad.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Okay what if this is about Kante being missing for ages and Fred being better than him?

Kante has been a ghost in the last couple of seasons.

Fred doesn’t have the success of Kante to ever be better than him - but Fred has been better than him in the last few seasons especially after Kante injuries.

Plenty of the fanbase saying no Kante was better in that thread.

What's your point? It's a fact that Kante has suffered with injuries but that doesnt make Fred better than Kante. Just as it doesnt make Milner better than Kante.

 

[Levenstein]

He does really well in one particular role. That is playing as a nr 8 with a proper CDM behind him. Look at his assists and goals this season.

People have very short memories. Someone can't make MOTM performances in Manchester United shirt and be "not good enough"

His late runs in the box are superb. If his shooting would be better he would have goals by x2 this season.

 

[AjaxCunian]

He does really well in one particular role. That is playing as a nr 8 with a proper CDM behind him. Look at his assists and goals this season.

People have very short memories. Someone can't make MOTM performances in Manchester United shirt and be "not good enough"

His late runs in the box are superb. If his shooting would be better he would have goals by x2 this season.

So we should go ahead with McTominay, Fred, Martial and de Gea into the next season as starters then. They are all good enough.

 

[Based Adnan]

We really don't have any choice in this.

We have too many Midfielders that we need to move on. We can't replace all of them in 1 summer, it's not practical.

And I haven't talked about our other positions yet that need replacing

McTominay is clearly seen by ETH as our only Casemiro back up as things stand and according to latest reports he won't be sold as he's the youngest of the senior midfielders. If he is we'd need to replace him with a back up DM as none of our other midfielders can fulfill that role currently.

That leaves VDB and Fred. VDB is a complete non entity and I'd argue doesn't need replacing.

Letting Fred go and signing Sabitzer for 15-20m is a no brainer imo. So we'd be one short going into next season compared to our current state in CM. You could make up for that by giving the likes of Hannibal, Mainoo or Iqbal a more senior role next season or buying a cheap back up like Kjaergaard from Salzburg who we've been linked to.

 

[caid]

I don’t think Fred is great or anything. In fact he can be a right liability when he’s having one of his panic attack days. I’ve often said that he’s naturally quite talented but remains that 18 year old talent that is sometimes nervous, sometimes sloppy and someone’s excellent which is odd for a player of his experience.

But on the other Mctominay is just a central midfielder. The bloke can barely pass the football and most of the time actively avoids it.

One should be backup and the other sold. If it were up to me next season this would be our midfield

Casmiero
New playmaking CM (like a FDJ alternative)
Eriksen
Bruno
New CM/DM who is also a good passer or dribbler (like the kid from STH)
Fred

Essentially our midfield lacks players who have time and quality to build up moves. That’s why I’d add two players who help with that and let McTominay and Sabitzer go. Or keep Sabitzer and get rid of Fred but based on what I’ve seen I’d prefer the latter.

Knowing us we will sign Sabitzer, keep Fred and sign 1 CM leaving us light in the buildup department again

I'm not convinced we'll have much budget. Maybe theres a deal with the likes of Rabiot on a free that means we can bring in 2 players but i wouldn't expect it. I guess i'm looking at the pair of them more as casemiro cover, where even there i think Fred might do a better job overall but I think McTominay is at least a more natural swap for a lot of casemiro's roles.
In your list above im not sure Fred ever gets on the pitch really. I wouldn't say no to keeping him either i guess, he has a lot of good qualities. He potentially has a future at the club that i dont see for McTominay beyond the next 18 months.

 

[Levenstein]

So we should go ahead with McTominay, Fred, Martial and de Gea into the next season as starters then. They are all good enough.

I would like us to play

---Casemiro (new CDM)
------------------Bruno (Fred)
-------Eriksen (Sabitzer)

I'm not saying as a starter, but I think he is a decent player to have in our squad. He offers something different.

If Martial is fit then I would like him as a starter. Doesn't mean we shouldn't look for another striker(s).

I like De Gea as well, but we should bring in a young keeper with high potential. They can fight for the nr 1.

I would sell McTominay, cause we don't need him and we could cash in at the moment.

 

[TheGame]

If we wanted to sure up the game then he should have been one of the first subs.

 

[criticalanalysis]

I said it twice during the match day thread that he should have come on.

It's really really weird. There's been multiple times in his Utd career, where he's played shite then came back and been one of our best players, then margalised out from the squad for some reason, only to come back again and retake his place.

I think it's about to happen again.

 

[Idxomer]

He has been scapegoated because of the Liverpool game, poor from Ten Hag freezing him out.

 

[Sylar]

It's really bizarre he didn't come on. Or whatever has happened to him for him not to get minutes. A game like this at 2-0 going no where would have suited him. Especially with casemiro on meaning he doesn't have to just sit

 

[Malone_Post]

The way he’s been frozen out of the team recently is just bizzare. Was in great form, even scoring goals, and then suddenly he’s just been cast aside. Even stranger as it’s happened when we were already missing Eriksen & Casimero.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

He has been scapegoated because of the Liverpool game, poor from Ten Hag freezing him out.

It's alright saying this, but who would you play him instead of?

It's clear ten Hag wants a ball playing 8 (which Fred is not), he has a number 6 in Casemiro (which Fred is not) and Sabitzer in the last few games has looked really good in the 10 role.

First choice:

Bruno
Eriksen Casemiro

When Eriksen is out:

Sabitzer
Bruno Casemiro

When Cas is injured:

Sabitzer/Bruno
Bruno/Eriksen - McTominay

 

[Nou_Camp99]

ETH keeps getting it wrong with subs. We needed energy and work rate in midfield to see the game out NOT two championship standard forwards coming on plus young Pellestri.

Fred had to come on. I don't get the logic yet again.

 

[justboy68]

Strange how he's been sidelined recently. He's been in generally good form.

 

[Solius]

Strange how he's been sidelined recently. He's been in generally good form.

Must be something else to it.

 

[Idxomer]

It's alright saying this, but who would you play him instead of?

It's clear ten Hag wants a ball playing 8 (which Fred is not), he has a number 6 in Casemiro (which Fred is not) and Sabitzer in the last few games has looked really good in the 10 role.

First choice:

Bruno
Eriksen Casemiro

When Eriksen is out:

Sabitzer
Bruno Casemiro

When Cas is injured:

Sabitzer/Bruno
Bruno/Eriksen - McTominay

I think it's a mistake not playing Bruno as a no.10 and opting for players who get on the ball as little as Weghorst, Sabitzer and McTominay.

There was no reason today not to play Fred besides Casemiro which Ten Hag did in the last 4 ties in the Europa League with good success.

 

[Superunknown]

Yeah, I don't get this one. Seemed like one of the more obvious subs to make, but it didn't happen. Maybe there's more to this one that we don't know about.

 

[Based Adnan]

Hopefully the beginning of the end of his time here

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

I think it's a mistake not playing Bruno as a no.10 and opting for players who get on the ball as little as Weghorst, Sabitzer and McTominay.

There was no reason today not to play Fred besides Casemiro which Ten Hag did in the last 4 ties in the Europa League with good success.

Bruno has been nothing short of amazing as a number 8 in recent games, and I full understood why ten Hag went with the same against Sevilla.

Weghorst came on for a tired Martial, McTominay, more often than not, only deputizes for Casemiro and Sabitzer is a typical number 10, who looks to make runs in behind the striker and create space for others around him i.e. Van de Beek at Ajax.

As much as I like Fred, when all of our midfielders are fit, he, like McTominay, should be used as squad players to come off the bench to shut out a game.

 

[NZT-One]

Bruno has been nothing short of amazing as a number 8 in recent games, and I full understood why ten Hag went with the same against Sevilla.

Weghorst came on for a tired Martial, McTominay, more often than not, only deputizes for Casemiro and Sabitzer is a typical number 10, who looks to make runs in behind the striker and create space for others around him i.e. Van de Beek at Ajax.

As much as I like Fred, when all of our midfielders are fit, he, like McTominay, should be used as squad players to come off the bench to shut out a game.

Think this is overshooting it a bit. He is used best when place close to opposition goal. Good to know that he can do a certain job against Everton and Brentford but it isn't like we've seen a reminiscence of Viera, Keane or Robbo there - "just" a player capable of the basics plus going for long balls (what has long been established as something he can do).

 

[Andycoleno9]

His fall in packing order is odd. Not saying wrong but it is strange. Guy was playing really well and all of sudden, over night he is literally last option in midfield.

 

[Sandikan]

Strange how he's been sidelined recently. He's been in generally good form.

Wondered where he was, as he was played to exhaustion for a lot of the season. Now can't get near it.

 

[Oranges038]

Hopefully the beginning of the end of his time here

Glad someone else sees it that way.

Only got a look in since Eriksen was injured, if we are being really honest about those games he had 2 or 3 god halves of football, Leeds and Barcelona, maybe one other but he wasn't in "great form". As soon as other options were available he was out of the team again.

Hardly a surprise really.

 

[Dve]

If Fred played for another club, and we watched him for 5 years, would anyone have him on our top transfers priority list? we paid £50 something million for him, would anyone want to spend that on him now? If he were an academy kid, I could understand, but he’s turning 30 next month and we’ve already seen his peak.

We already have him, and I think that’s why people are reluctant to get rid, but is he ideal for the role ETH wants him to play? The last two games he has been sublime and outrageously bad , often within minutes of each other.

People talk about Fred being more of an attacking midfielder, but if that’s not what he’s in the side to do, who cares? Against Leicester he let runners go past him far too often and wasn’t close enough to the player he was marking. Leicester created several great chances, 2 of which called for heroic saves from DeGea, and they created those chances because Fred wasn’t helping stop attacks, along with Garnacho of course.

Against Leeds he went to sleep for the 2nd goal, let his man run off him and was nowhere near him. Whatever he offers in attack is outweighed by his shortcomings. I sincerely hope his time at United is about done.

That's harsh. He has only started 20 games for us this season (in all competition) and has 6 goals and 3 assists. Fred played 90 minutes in many of our best games, e.g. both games against Barcelona and both wins against Spurs and City, and he has certainly contributed in a positive way. There is room for him in the squad.

 

[Dve]

Glad someone else sees it that way.

Only got a look in since Eriksen was injured, if we are being really honest about those games he had 2 or 3 god halves of football, Leeds and Barcelona, maybe one other but he wasn't in "great form". As soon as other options were available he was out of the team again.

Hardly a surprise really.

Fred's game time has suffered from the absence of Casemiro. For the balance of the team, Fred is more likely to be picked when Casemiro starts.

 

[Based Adnan]

Glad someone else sees it that way.

Only got a look in since Eriksen was injured, if we are being really honest about those games he had 2 or 3 god halves of football, Leeds and Barcelona, maybe one other but he wasn't in "great form". As soon as other options were available he was out of the team again.

Hardly a surprise really.

He's been here 5 seasons and the fact there's still question marks over whether he's good enough says all you need to know. A handful of good games each season isn't enough. Like the poster above said if he played for another club putting in the performances he does, no-one would be clamouring for us to sign him.

I'd rather move him on and replace him with a squad option who is good on the ball in tight spaces and can progress the ball under press.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Second half Fred is decent to be fair.