[11101]

Two certainties in life, Fred will have a shocker when played as a 6, and McTominay will hang his midfield partner out to dry. He's a good box to box player but he's not a defensive mid or anything else similar.

God knows what the others must be like in training if multiple managers think Fred is our best number 6.

 

[Walrus]

He was the worst player on the pitch yesterday and got hooked at HT, despite McTominay being on a booking. Despite this, the thread is of course full of apologists blaming McTominay (who also played very poorly) for the fact that Fred routinely gives the opposition 2-3 clear cut chances almost every game.

 

[Based Adnan]

He gets bypassed for fun in midfield. One of the main reasons why opponents find it so easy to find space against us.

 

[CloneMC16]

Don't know if we really should apply lessons from our golden 4-4-2 days (with the double pivot) in todays football. I am with you, I don't think, FDJ should be seen as some sort of DM - I also don't have a good feeling about him next to Fred as two defensive minded B2B players. The B2B role in the PL requires more energy, I don't think FDJ has that. And while I am sure, he will be aweseome with once we have the ball, I feel we would be laughably open once we lose it. Fred is a chaos player, you put him close to opposition buildup mechanism (be that balls to FBs or a pivotal player in midfield or even in defense) and let him work, but he has no positional awareness what so ever as he is so ball focussed.

The setup yesterday didn't do him any favors as he wasn't exactly deployed next to McTom but rather behind McTom and Eriksen. But, as soooo fecking often, the distances grew larger and larger making it impossible to play through the center at some point. That being said - he wasn't good yesterday, no question about it.

This is my exact worry. FDJ's defensive stats are pretty bad. Fred can run for days, but his defensive positioning and decision making isn't great. I still see us having nightmares without the ball. I don't understand how this will work with the profiles that we have.

He was the worst player on the pitch yesterday and got hooked at HT, despite McTominay being on a booking. Despite this, the thread is of course full of apologists blaming McTominay (who also played very poorly) for the fact that Fred routinely gives the opposition 2-3 clear cut chances almost every game.

Most people here has said that Fred was awful. We're playing Fred in a position that massively exposes his weaknesses. We've seen him play there enough times to know. When he's played as a #8, he looks like a much better player. McTominay looks bad wherever he plays. McTominay played as a #8 almost every game under Ole, and was poor in a good 80% of them. Fred is no amazing player, but he plays much better on average than McTominay as a #8.

In an ideal world, I would replace both, but we're not in an ideal world. We're not going to sign two starting midfielders. We'll buy one (hopefully?) and you replace the bigger problem first.

 

[Kingofwinners]

He just hits so many sloppy passes, either sideways when we have a chance/ need to speed things up or just plain terrible kicks into areas nowhere near a team mate. i genuinely cant see how people rate him as a footballer. He does seem to have a decent attitude in fairness and puts in an effort.

 

[Walrus]

@CloneMC16 @ti vu

I agree that Fred can’t play a holding role. It’s largely the same argument I made in defence of McTominay numerous times over the last couple of years. They both lack the positional discipline and composure on the ball - we saw the difference when Eriksen dropped deep on Sunday.

I also agree with the issues created by having no DM and a GL stuck to their line. As a team, it makes the job of the midfielders and CBs so much harder, and makes it all but impossible to play a modern, high line style of football.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

Fred cannot play the defensive midfield role in Ten Hag's system because he's not at all good at playing on the half-turn. To use a phrase that has entered the zeitgeist, he is not very press-resistant.

Watching the Brighton match it was fairly apparent that the Brighton players were targeting Fred with their press. This caused a fair amount of problems when attempting to build from the back because Fred was frequently receiving the ball facing his own goal and forced to play the ball backwards, a problem compounded by De Gea's limited distribution.

I don't think McTominay is great at this either but he is considerably better than Fred; he is better at turning under pressure but his struggles on the ball often come from a lack of ability to pass with the correct weight and accuracy. This is obviously also a big problem in Ten Hag's system.

 

[Skills]

Fred cannot play the defensive midfield role in Ten Hag's system because he's not at all good at playing on the half-turn. To use a phrase that has entered the zeitgeist, he is not very press-resistant.

Watching the Brighton match it was fairly apparent that the Brighton players were targeting Fred with their press. This caused a fair amount of problems when attempting to build from the back because Fred was frequently receiving the ball facing his own goal and forced to play the ball backwards, a problem compounded by De Gea's limited distribution.

I don't think McTominay is great at this either but he is considerably better than Fred; he is better at turning under pressure but his struggles on the ball often come from a lack of ability to pass with the correct weight and accuracy. This is obviously also a big problem in Ten Hag's system.

McTominay just refuses to make himself available for the pass when he's playing the holding role. He doesn't give it away, but he just doesn't even get on the ball.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

McTominay just refuses to make himself available for the pass when he's playing the holding role. He doesn't give it away, but he just doesn't even get on the ball.

Yep, this is a huge problem McTominay has off the ball. When he does receive it, though, he is generally better at beating the press than Fred.

I should clarify, I ideally wouldn't have either of them in the side but I do rate Fred higher overall than McTominay.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Don't understand playing him as a DM. He is better playing further forward. He's still crap, of course, but better being further away from our goal.

 

[El Jefe]

People talk about him being a 6 but it doesn't matter for me. His defending for the 2nd Brighton goal was criminal right from the start of the move.

He needlessly commits to Caicedo when he had Eriksen on him already. We were fecked once Fred committed and didn't win that ball, it was an insane decision because he just needed to hold his position so the team could maintain shape.

Unfortunately it didn't end there, to his credit he sprints back into the box but at no point has the awareness to look around him and of course Gross comes from behind him to sweep it in.

I think Fred is an incredibly poor player no matter the position but he's a high volume player so he has many good contributions as well as bad ones in the same game. This might be acceptable for forward players or even AMs but is totally unacceptable for a CM as it will inevitably cost you which it has on numerous occasions.

 

[grahamo]

People talk about him being a 6 but it doesn't matter for me. His defending for the 2nd Brighton goal was criminal right from the start of the move.

He needlessly commits to Caicedo when he had Eriksen on him already. We were fecked once Fred committed and didn't win that ball, it was an insane decision because he just needed to hold his position so the team could maintain shape.

Unfortunately it didn't end there, to his credit he sprints back into the box but at no point has the awareness to look around him and of course Gross comes from behind him to sweep it in.

I think Fred is an incredibly poor player no matter the position but he's a high volume player so he has many good contributions as well as bad ones in the same game. This might be acceptable for forward players or even AMs but is totally unacceptable for a CM as it will inevitably cost you which it has on numerous occasions.

I couldn't agree more. Fred for that second goal was so so bad. He gave the ball away (As usual) for Brighton to start their advance, Then once he got back he totally switched off again and didn't even see Gross coming up behind him. He should never play for United again after that. How many chances is He gonna get. He constantly gives the ball away. He's a terrible terrible footballer. United couldn't give him away he's so bad.

 

[grahamo]

P.S. I'd rather have Fred the red in midfield

 

[VanDeBank]

This is my exact worry. FDJ's defensive stats are pretty bad. Fred can run for days, but his defensive positioning and decision making isn't great. I still see us having nightmares without the ball. I don't understand how this will work with the profiles that we have.


Most people here has said that Fred was awful. We're playing Fred in a position that massively exposes his weaknesses. We've seen him play there enough times to know. When he's played as a #8, he looks like a much better player. McTominay looks bad wherever he plays. McTominay played as a #8 almost every game under Ole, and was poor in a good 80% of them. Fred is no amazing player, but he plays much better on average than McTominay as a #8.

In an ideal world, I would replace both, but we're not in an ideal world. We're not going to sign two starting midfielders. We'll buy one (hopefully?) and you replace the bigger problem first.

FDJ's defensive stats are bad, because he plays mostly as an attacking midfielder at Barcelona.
He's good defensively. It's so obvious from watching him play.

 

[VanDeBank]

The problem with McFred is that both of them are complete dogshit as a no 6. Fred's half decent as a watercarrier b2b player, like how he played under Rangnick or for Brasil.

 

[NZT-One]

FDJ's defensive stats are bad, because he plays mostly as an attacking midfielder at Barcelona.
He's good defensively. It's so obvious from watching him play.

He is playing an advanced role because he isn't able to replace Busquets at 33 years old. FDJ has many qualities, but defensively isn't his strength. Its ball progression. I've seen Carrick, I know, you don't need to be a grafter to deal well as a DM in the PL but FDJ isn't all that. He was always well supported in his teams, he sure can do a job, just like Neves can do a job but it won't be enough in some games. I'd say he isn't strong and mobile enough and without Fred (something I agree to strive for) the midfield is lacking energy.

 

[VanDeBank]

He is playing an advanced role because he isn't able to replace Busquets at 33 years old. FDJ has many qualities, but defensively isn't his strength. Its ball progression. I've seen Carrick, I know, you don't need to be a grafter to deal well as a DM in the PL but FDJ isn't all that. He was always well supported in his teams, he sure can do a job, just like Neves can do a job but it won't be enough in some games. I'd say he isn't strong and mobile enough and without Fred (something I agree to strive for) the midfield is lacking energy.

He isn't replacing Busquets not because he's weaker defensively, but playing in a single pivot limits his adventurous nature. Something Busquets really doesn't have and benefits him playing as the sole no 6.

 

[NZT-One]

He isn't replacing Busquets not because he's weaker defensively, but playing in a single pivot limits his adventurous nature. Something Busquets really doesn't have and benefits him playing as the sole no 6.

So why did Barcelona go for him then? I am pretty sure that back then many fans expected him to replace Busquets. I'd also say it would be borderline neglience to not try to replace Busquets for all these years but I guess, seeing how Barca acts, this isn't really one of the better points to make. I'd say that if he struggled defensively at Barcelona, we should have a plan in place for us because he will experience the same problems here. Maybe even more accenturated as the PL is even more about power and physicality (doesn't mean it is an absolute necessity, but it defo helps as seen witch more or less any other defensive midfielder in the league).

 

[VanDeBank]

So why did Barcelona go for him then? I am pretty sure that back then many fans expected him to replace Busquets. I'd also say it would be borderline neglience to not try to replace Busquets for all these years but I guess, seeing how Barca acts, this isn't really one of the better points to make. I'd say that if he struggled defensively at Barcelona, we should have a plan in place for us because he will experience the same problems here. Maybe even more accenturated as the PL is even more about power and physicality (doesn't mean it is an absolute necessity, but it defo helps as seen witch more or less any other defensive midfielder in the league).

Their transfer policy in those years made about as much sense as ours. Total incompetence, buying players without putting any thought into how they're going to be used or what their best position is.

But he didn't struggle defensively at Farcelona and he's not weaker and slower than Busquets (who btw is still a really good player), so I don't really get the point you're trying to make.

IMO his best stint at Barca was when he had to play deeper (CB even) under Koeman.

 

[NZT-One]

Their transfer policy in those years made about as much sense as ours. Total incompetence, buying players without putting any thought into how they're going to be used or what their best position is.

But he didn't struggle defensively at Farcelona and he's not weaker and slower than Busquets (who btw is still a really good player), so I don't really get the point you're trying to make.

IMO his best stint at Barca was when he had to play deeper (CB even) under Koeman.

I was just replying to you saying that FDJ is good defensively. Something I wouldn't subscribe to. But I haven't seen him much for Barcelona, only going based off analysis videos on youtube and some fan reports.

(just to make sure, not saying he is bad defensively, but he isn't particularly good. Something that can be mitigated by partnering him in certain ways)

 

[Based Adnan]

Unbelievably poor. Subbed off early in both games so far yet he'll play vs Liverpool because we have no-one else. Sums up the club.

 

[SirScholes]

Still waiting for him to be a new player under ETH like people were saying

he’s just shit

 

[Ace of Spades]

Teams are picking him as a weak link. Poor on the ball, and very weak physically.

Needs to go.

 

[Walrus]

Both games he has been hooked at half time, both games we have looked better in the second half. Not saying thats a fully causative relationship, but its telling how quiet this thread is, simply because he is one of the Caf's favourites.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

Weakest footballer in history. OUT!

 

[Roboc7]

Can’t play that position and isn’t enough, same applies to Mct. But one or both will be starting every game.

 

[TOKUGAWA-X]

Fred was never a HM and will never be. He is an average CM who can look decent if others do the job like in the current Brazil team.

I am sure ETH saw this during the tour and still decided to start the season with him, so its all on ETH.

 

[Giant Midget]

I was wrong about him. I’ve massively overrated him.

Hooked at HT in both games. It’s been 5 seasons, needs to go.

 

[MadDogg]

Surprised at the criticism. Obviously he was terrible in the first game, but thought he was one of the best of a bad bunch in the first half of this match (obviously that isn't saying much though!). Won the ball back plenty and kept the ball moving well most of the time. Felt like he was taken off just to get the extra height in the team.

 

[BerryBerryShrew]

Surprised at the criticism. Obviously he was terrible in the first game, but thought he was one of the best of a bad bunch in the first half of this match (obviously that isn't saying much though!). Won the ball back plenty and kept the ball moving well most of the time. Felt like he was taken off just to get the extra height in the team.

He was poor today but far from the worst performer. I agree he was taken off to give us some bit of height in the side.

 

[Ekeke]

Surprised at the criticism. Obviously he was terrible in the first game, but thought he was one of the best of a bad bunch in the first half of this match (obviously that isn't saying much though!). Won the ball back plenty and kept the ball moving well most of the time. Felt like he was taken off just to get the extra height in the team.

In the first half I didnt really notice him. Where usually its Fred coming deep to take the ball, with some problems, instead Eriksen was given the role and today he was crap at it too leading to the first goal. I think the fact we gave an attacking midfielder this job is a pretty bad sign. An even worse one that he couldnt do it either

 

[united for life]

Can’t play that position and isn’t enough, same applies to Mct. But one or both will be starting every game.

i’d try vdb or garner. We’re losing anyway, of ETH doesn’t change things, results wont change. Fred and Mctominay won’t become good DMs. They are not even DMs

 

[El Jefe]

In a team full of players I can't stand, none irritates me more than the sight of Fred.

Some of our transfers should have our board put through a grand jury hearing.

 

[Roboc7]

i’d try vdb or garner. We’re losing anyway, of ETH doesn’t change things, results wont change. Fred and Mctominay won’t become good DMs. They are not even DMs

It’s worth a try but tough for them to come in against Liverpool. Ultimately we just don’t have the solutions in the squad, it’s just negligent it’s been neglected once again.

 

[united for life]

It’s worth a try but tough for them to come in against Liverpool. Ultimately we just don’t have the solutions in the squad, it’s just negligent it’s been neglected once again.

i don’t even want to think about the liverpool game. They will be so dominant against us we need a miracle to get a decent loss

 

[ti vu]

Not a no6.

He didn't have chance to be shit on ball today because Eriksen was tasked for that job instead Then not having enough ball and played in a a position he can't use his energy, he's invisible. This same old no 6 experiment needs to be stopped. Potentially would get even uglier against Liverpool

 

[Skills]

In the first half I didnt really notice him. Where usually its Fred coming deep to take the ball, with some problems, instead Eriksen was given the role and today he was crap at it too leading to the first goal. I think the fact we gave an attacking midfielder this job is a pretty bad sign. An even worse one that he couldnt do it either

The problem is it's a specialist position to play that, and not many players have the skillset to play it. Even the best struggle at times - I've seen Fabinho and Rodri struggle, but Thiago and Bernardo help them out who are immaculate at playing through pressure in those situations.

We play players without that skillset in that role, and then don't have other players who can help them too by dropping deep.

 

[bosnian_red]

Didn't know what he was supposed to be doing out there (me as a fan, but seemingly him on the pitch either).

 

[Roboc7]

i don’t even want to think about the liverpool game. They will be so dominant against us we need a miracle to get a decent loss

That’s a write off, can’t watch the game which I find more of a relief than disappointment.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Surprised at the criticism. Obviously he was terrible in the first game, but thought he was one of the best of a bad bunch in the first half of this match (obviously that isn't saying much though!). Won the ball back plenty and kept the ball moving well most of the time. Felt like he was taken off just to get the extra height in the team.

Feel the same, he’s the only one with any real fight in midfield or the team. It just seemed like a mistake to take him off as he was at least trying to get to people getting on the ball and trying to give players other options.

By no means was he good today, but certainly better than some that got a full 90 and probably if ETH had made better choices been useful for the 90.