[m1tch]

Nowhere near our worst performer yesterday, and he's hardly getting to enjoy an easy introduction to a new team and league playing in a team playing like we are.
Imagine he was at city, he'd do 60 minutes, come off with the team 3 or 4 goals up, and there's be no/little focus on his performances for some time yet. At united were getting turned over by cannon fodder and people are looking at him like he should be making the difference.

 

[RedSky]

Agree with the above. Almost blameless for yesterday, a few loose passes aside.

The biggest problems were on our flanks and poor performances from both centre backs.

Blameless? Our midfield had a combined 3 attempted tackles and only won one. ONE.

In 166mins of football he's made 1 successful tackle. No denying he's very good on the ball (when he's not giving it away) but his defensive work has been abysmal.

My main concern is that he's too similar to Pogba. Both are easily dispossessed and have sloppy touches, both defensively suspect but both have undeniable quality on the ball.

 

[sincher]

That stat means feck all.

 

[RedSky]

That stat means feck all.

So you think that our midfield only making one successful challenge yesterday means nothing? Wow.

 

[sincher]

So you think that our midfield only making one successful challenge yesterday means nothing? Wow.

Pretty meaningless especially since they were killing us down the flanks. I doubt their CMs won many tackles either?

Plus this thread about Fred is to gauge our early reactions to him. I don't think his performance was even close to one of our bigger problems yesterday and I agree with others who say we need to stick with him. Maybe you disagree. That's fine. It's fine to be wrong

 

[RedSky]

Pretty meaningless especially since they were killing us down the flanks. I doubt their CMs won many tackles either?

Plus this thread about Fred is to gauge our early reactions to him. I don't think his performance was even close to one of our bigger problems yesterday and I agree with others who say we need to stick with him. Maybe you disagree. That's fine. It's fine to be wrong

Propper won 7 tackles, Stephens 4, Grob 2. So yeah, their midfield won a combined 13 tackles compared to our 1. So actually I think it was a big problem yesterday.

Fred right now like a luxury player and we already have one of those in Pogba and long term i'll be surprised if we manage to find a good balance with both of those in the lineup together. Defensively he offered nothing yesterday.

 

[11101]

Blameless? Our midfield had a combined 3 attempted tackles and only won one. ONE.

In 166mins of football he's made 1 successful tackle. No denying he's very good on the ball (when he's not giving it away) but his defensive work has been abysmal.

My main concern is that he's too similar to Pogba. Both are easily dispossessed and have sloppy touches, both defensively suspect but both have undeniable quality on the ball.

Paolo Maldini famously made 1 tackle every 161 minutes. It's a meaningless stat in isolation. The best players will have intercepted before then or prevented the pass being made in the first place. Carrick in his prime never made more than 2 or 3 per game.

 

[artursk]

One thing I'm wondering about and can't get my head around regarding Fred's role in this is our transition into attack in the game against Brighton.
The typical sequence was:
1) Dea Gea passes to Bailly / Lindelof
2) Bailly / Lindelow passes to Pereira who has dropped between the two centre backs
3) Pereira passes it to the other centre back as Pogba / Fred is not free
4) The other centre back passes it back to Pereira or a full-back
4a) If it is passed to a full-back, the ball is usually lost as Brighton tend to double-down quickly
4b) If it is passed back o Pereira, he passes it back to the other defender again or back to De Gea (and the cycle goes on)

As a result, we just couldn't get the ball out of our half. Is there a role Fred could have played as a number 8 to help Pereira (playing as a 6) out? Should we have done what City sometimes do in these circumstances, asking one of the full-backs to make runs to midfield, therefore, either creating a spare man or (if the opposition winger follows), creating a free channel to pass the ball directly to Martial / Mata? This was such a massive problem for us, it looked like a simple thing that should be trained million times on a training ground.

I am talking about the 1st half btw. Things changed a bit in the 2nd half as we changed the set-up somewhat and where chasing the game and Brighton reduced their pressing a little.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

I noticed yesterday a few really weird passes from him, I’m all for firing in a pass but there is a limit to how much fire you can put on it

There was one to Pogba which was smashed at him that Pogba just managed to control then later he hit one at Lukaku that went in at knee height and in all honesty Xavi, Iniesta, Modric, no one was controlling this and especially not Lukaku. The way he hit it at first I was guessing he was trying to get it to Young out on the flank and Lukaku got in the way but Young was behind him and there was no one on the wing.

It was really weird, still early days and there are moments where he shows a bit of promise but we and Jose are really asking a lot of him to come in with very little time with the team and be an instant starter. I’m guessing if Herrera was fully fit and Matic he wouldn’t be playing right now.

 

[forevrared]

Paolo Maldini famously made 1 tackle every 180 minutes. It's a meaningless stat in isolation. The best players will have intercepted before then or prevented the pass being made in the first place. Carrick in his prime never made more than 2 or 3 per game.

Rio was the same way -- I think I remember an interview where he said something along the lines of, "if I had to make a tackle, I'd already made a mistake".

 

[11101]

Rio was the same way -- I think I remember an interview where he said something along the lines of, "if I had to make a tackle, I'd already made a mistake".

Yeah and i think obsession with tackles, headers won etc. is quite an English phenomenon. We rate players who excel in those areas but don't grasp that better players won't put up great numbers there.

 

[RedSky]

Paolo Maldini famously made 1 tackle every 180 minutes. It's a meaningless stat in isolation. The best players will have intercepted before then or prevented the pass being made in the first place. Carrick in his prime never made more than 2 or 3 per game.

It's a concern when an entire midfield doesn't make many though. If you have a good midfield then your CB shouldn't need to make tackles. If your midfield is weak and easy to get through then defenders will be put under pressure. It's not like we're City where we're camped in the opposition half. Hopefully he improves his defensive duties because if he doesn't then imo the midfield partnership won't work as Pogba isn't good defensively either for us.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

Played as expected.
So far:

• Messy player: Looses the ball often due to risky passes made in wrong situations and lack of awareness of his surroundings. Can be argued that he is not the best at understanding the game, since his abilites on the ball is good.
  
• Dives into tackles, and when he misses(which he has done so far) he is far behind the ball.
• Physically he is better than i expected.

Some of the issues with him on the pitch can/may be due to new relations with players, unfamiliar with style of play, or the style of play in general. So hopefully these issues will disappear with time. Reminds me of Oxlade-Chamberlain/Anderson as they both have/had the technical abilities to be much better players than they are/were.

 

[11101]

It's a concern when an entire midfield doesn't make many though. If you have a good midfield then your CB shouldn't need to make tackles. If your midfield is weak and easy to get through then defenders will be put under pressure. It's not like we're City where we're camped in the opposition half. Hopefully he improves his defensive duties because if he doesn't then imo the midfield partnership won't work as Pogba isn't good defensively either for us.

Agreed and yesterday our midfield was poor. For me Fred has been brought in to be the guy who closes down space and forces errors, not necessarily the one making tackle after tackle. If anyone, that's Matic. Indeed, looking at their past histories on whoscored.com Matic made far more tackles per game at Chelsea than Fred did at Shakhtar.

 

[RedSky]

Agreed and yesterday our midfield was poor. For me Fred has been brought in to be the guy who closes down space and forces errors, not necessarily the one making tackle after tackle. If anyone, that's Matic. Indeed, looking at their past histories on whoscored.com Matic made far more tackles per game at Chelsea than Fred did at Shakhtar.

Hopefully it's just teething issues but for me given we were away from home it's a big, big warning light for me. Midfield was bad at tackling, intercepting, winning aerial battles. It was plain bad. Perhaps with Matic in for Perreira it will offer better balance.

 

[simplyared]

Running about like a blue arsed fly at the moment. Needs some composure in his game. Seems to rush everything he does. Also we need to get him further forward, playing far too deep for my liking. Am a bit worried about his goal return 10 goals in 101 apps for Shahktar Donetsk isn't too encouraging.

 

[AlwaysRed66]

Another dud who is hyped up on these boards, mainly because how he did pre-season, & also as he is an new toy. Might do well, but time will tell.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Another dud who is hyped up on these boards, mainly because how he did pre-season, & also as he is an new toy. Might do well, but time will tell.

So he is a confirmed dud that might do well? These types of posts after 2 games are so irritating. What hype from pre season? He barely played over 140 minutes in pre-season.

I’d like to see how he does when we have a proper 6 like Matic at the base. We are so vulnerable without Matic.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Propper won 7 tackles, Stephens 4, Grob 2. So yeah, their midfield won a combined 13 tackles compared to our 1. So actually I think it was a big problem yesterday.

Fred right now like a luxury player and we already have one of those in Pogba and long term i'll be surprised if we manage to find a good balance with both of those in the lineup together. Defensively he offered nothing yesterday.

Not saying you're wrong but the difference was in the coaching and tactics. They pressed us hard all over the pitch and was able to close down the passing options and isolate players i.e make the interception and break.

It wasn't even like manic, gung ho pressing that was blistering, it was just organised. Any well coached team would be able to play through that, between the lines and create opportunites.

Utd under Mourinho has been about having the better players on the pitch and winning by the margins, not playing the better football.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Yeah and i think obsession with tackles, headers won etc. is quite an English phenomenon. We rate players who excel in those areas but don't grasp that better players won't put up great numbers there.

Well you do not want CBs making a ton of tackles since they are usually the last line of defense and their tackles could lead to dangerous free kicks and penalties. But, in midfield while is not the end all be all but, it can help gaining control in midfield. And midfielders like Casemiro, Vidal, Kante, Fernandinho, usually have high tackle statistics.

 

[99withaflake]

Another dud who is hyped up on these boards, mainly because how he did pre-season, & also as he is an new toy. Might do well, but time will tell.

I know you're not making this assessment after 2 competitive games, so I'd love to hear about your knowledge of the Ukrainian Premier League. How often do you watch it? In which games last season did Fred disappoint for Shakhtar Donetsk? What insights can you give us?

 

[Ashley R1+O]

The kneejerk "well I guess thats that, he's shit then.." at the start of the threadmark for the loss against Brighton.

 

[Garethw]

Let’s hope that it’s just a settling in thing. He certainly doesn’t look the game changer that our midfield has been crying out for though.

 

[fergies coat]

I can’t believe some people are writing him off after two games. He’s new to England and will take time to settle. At least a season give him some time ffs.

 

[stepic]

Another dud who is hyped up on these boards, mainly because how he did pre-season, & also as he is an new toy. Might do well, but time will tell.

clearly not for you.

 

[Ekeke]

Paolo Maldini famously made 1 tackle every 161 minutes. It's a meaningless stat in isolation. The best players will have intercepted before then or prevented the pass being made in the first place. Carrick in his prime never made more than 2 or 3 per game.

3 tackles a game is a lot.

Only Ndidi averaged 4 tackles last season out of all premier league players.

In 11/12 Carrick averaged 3 tackles per game and 2.4 interceptions. And yes he would have made a difference playing like that yesterday

 

[Ekeke]

Rio was the same way -- I think I remember an interview where he said something along the lines of, "if I had to make a tackle, I'd already made a mistake".

He's a CB not a holding midfielder. He also had Vidic playing next to him most of the time. Vidic had 2 seasons where he averaged over 2 tackles a game and 2 seasons with 1.2 and 1.4 per game.

Rio had 2 seasons with less than 1 tackle on average per game. And 3 seasons with more than 1 tackle on average per game.

But going back to the posters point, he wasnt talking about a CB making 1 tackle.

He was talking about 3 midfielders, 2 of which were holding and just 1 tackle between the 3. There were 2 interceptions between the 3 as well, thats also very low.

 

[Mcking]

Fred against Brighton was okay amongst a bad bunch. He was obviously struggling with the pace and seemed very weak physically, but he was our only player who looked like a footballer when on the ball.
A game where the whole team underperformed should not be a guage for judging him.

 

[Dante]

Well you do not want CBs making a ton of tackles since they are usually the last line of defense and their tackles could lead to dangerous free kicks and penalties. But, in midfield while is not the end all be all but, it can help gaining control in midfield. And midfielders like Casemiro, Vidal, Kante, Fernandinho, usually have high tackle statistics.

Tackling stats are quite a Spanish and German phenomenon.

 

[kouroux]

I noticed yesterday a few really weird passes from him, I’m all for firing in a pass but there is a limit to how much fire you can put on it

There was one to Pogba which was smashed at him that Pogba just managed to control then later he hit one at Lukaku that went in at knee height and in all honesty Xavi, Iniesta, Modric, no one was controlling this and especially not Lukaku. The way he hit it at first I was guessing he was trying to get it to Young out on the flank and Lukaku got in the way but Young was behind him and there was no one on the wing.

It was really weird, still early days and there are moments where he shows a bit of promise but we and Jose are really asking a lot of him to come in with very little time with the team and be an instant starter. I’m guessing if Herrera was fully fit and Matic he wouldn’t be playing right now.

That pass to Pogba was funny.

 

[ErranMorad]

I noticed yesterday a few really weird passes from him, I’m all for firing in a pass but there is a limit to how much fire you can put on it

There was one to Pogba which was smashed at him that Pogba just managed to control then later he hit one at Lukaku that went in at knee height and in all honesty Xavi, Iniesta, Modric, no one was controlling this and especially not Lukaku. The way he hit it at first I was guessing he was trying to get it to Young out on the flank and Lukaku got in the way but Young was behind him and there was no one on the wing.

It was really weird, still early days and there are moments where he shows a bit of promise but we and Jose are really asking a lot of him to come in with very little time with the team and be an instant starter. I’m guessing if Herrera was fully fit and Matic he wouldn’t be playing right now.

I mentioned the same about his passes in my post on this thread yesterday. It reminded me of some of the passing from Anderson during his time here.

He has shown glimpses of quality. It'll take time for him to adjust to the pace and strength of the PL games. It's a big jump coming from the Ukrainian league to this one.

One thing I have noticed that he'll need to improve on massively is the weight of his paces. Currently he is hitting the Anderson bullets, which aren't easy for the receiver to control. Needs to control the pace of his between the line passes.

 

[MBSADSED]

Im not really sure what his role will be;

Is he a destroyer - NO
Is he a playmaker - NO
Can he dictate tempo - NO
Does he shield well - NO

I suppose only time will tell.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Most of our players look clueless because (lack of coaching and) tactics.

He's a ball seeker and a box to box player in a new team so naturally he'll look even more out of place.

 

[haram]

Im not really sure what his role will be;

Is he a destroyer - NO
Is he a playmaker - NO
Can he dictate tempo - NO
Does he shield well - NO

I suppose only time will tell.

How many times have you seen him play?

 

[Escobar]

How many times have you seen him play?

Nowadays, new players dont even get 2 games anymore to settle....

 

[hasanejaz88]

Initial impressions aren't great, struggles to hold the ball under pressure and his passing doesn't seem great.

Obviously still very early and he moved to a higher level league so hopefully he can learn and develop over the season.

 

[norm87cro]

I think he can do well for us. Maybe I'll eat my words but time will tell. The absence of Matic is definetly effecting our composure in the middle but we should not blame that on the guy eager to impress.

 

[Castia]

Willing to give him time and you can see he’s got ability but for a midfielder he gives the ball away too much, with Fred and Alexis in the side we’ll be constantly losing possession of the ball.

 

[Joseforever]

Needs time to develop and adapt to a top European League, you can't doubt this lad's footballing ability because his passing range and vision is phenomenal.

Need Matic back asap because the balance in our midfield will return which will allow Pogba and Fred to flourish, people talk about Fred giving the ball away but that Keita fella isn't very good at keeping the ball either he gave away the ball numerous times against Palace for pool and you have to remember he's played in a top league before unlike Fred.

 

[bond19821982]

How many times have you seen him play?

2