Frankie Boyle criticised for Down Syndrome jokes

CallyRed

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Found this on the BBC website earlier, and seems to be typical FB stand up.

"The mother of a five-year-old girl with Down's syndrome has criticised comedian Frankie Boyle for poking fun at people with the condition during a live show.
Sharon and Keiron Smith, of Hampshire, were sitting in the front row of the star's sold-out gig in Reading's Hexagon theatre when he made the jokes.
Mrs Smith said she told the comic she was upset but he told her she should have known what to expect at his show.
The former Mock The Week panellist refused to comment.
Mrs Smith, who has a daughter called Tanzie, said she was a fan of the comedian's "dry, cutting, sense of humour" during his appearances on the BBC2 show.

She told BBC Radio 5 live's Victoria Derbyshire she had been enjoying the live show before Boyle joked about people with Down's syndrome.
She said: "He made fun of their parents being old and out of touch, he made fun of the way people with Down's syndrome speak.
"He made a number of references to people with Down's syndrome dying early."

he added: "I have to say I had never heard him on Mock the Week poking fun of people with disabilities, it was not something I was aware of he did.
"We had obviously heard him making fun of other people, but quite often his humour appears to be clever humour or making a point about something.
"OK, he can be cutting, but he will often be using his humour to make a point, whereas the type of jokes he was making about people with Down's syndrome I don't see there was any point being made."

Mrs Smith said that during the whole segment her heart was racing and she wanted to cry but that most of the audience were laughing as far as she was aware.
She said Boyle noticed her talking to her husband and asked them what they were saying.
She wrote on her blog: "I told him that my five-year-old daughter has Downs syndrome and that I was simply upset at some of his jokes.
"He tried to laugh it off - 'Ah, but it's all true isn't it? Everything I have said is true isn't it?' To which I replied 'No, it wasn't'.
"He then went on to say that it was the most excruciating moment of his career but then tried to claw the humour back by saying we had paid to come and see him and what should we expect?
"To which I replied that I understood that and that it was my personal problem/upset."
She said Boyle then embarked on an explanation to the audience of his background and why he was "so nasty".
Change in attitude
Sheila Heslam, from the Down's Syndrome Association, said: "Clever comedy should challenge the stereotypes and preconceptions that people hold of minority groups.
"Sadly Frankie Boyle's recent routine about people with Down's syndrome was neither clever nor intellectually challenging.
"In the year that the Down's Syndrome Association is marking its 40th anniversary we have had cause to reflect on the remarkable achievements of people with Down's syndrome and the positive societal shift in attitudes towards them.
"In 1985 we had a very successful nationwide poster campaign, with the strap line 'You say Mongo - We say Down's syndrome - His mates call him David'.
"It is a shame that Frankie Boyle, 25 years later, has not understood this message."
Last year Mock The Week's producers were criticised by the BBC Trust over comments Boyle made on the show about swimmer Rebecca Adlington's appearance.
Another complaint against Mock The Week, relating to a comment Boyle made about the Queen, was not upheld as a breach of editorial standards by the trust.

BBC News - Frankie Boyle criticised for Down's syndrome joke

So what do you think? Is really OK to laugh at disability jokes, or is it a case of being over sensitive? as it is just a joke afterall, is it not? people still tell racist jokes to one another, some find them funny, some don't, you will always get the response "its only a joke".
We know what Frankie Boyle is like, he can be very cutting and pushes the boundaries of comedy continuously, but do you think he overstepped the mark this time?
 
Readings Hexagon hey? I haven't been back since they discovered asbestos in the ceiling and floor.
 
On one hand, I don't think we should be looking at censoring what comedians can make jokes about and I don't think that a joke about disability necessarily does overstep the mark. But on the other, you can't help but feel for the mum after reading the bit where said that during the entire segment her heart was racing and she wanted to cry. The solution is surely to make sure than everyone knows exactly what to expect when they go to see a show. You'd think that would be the case at a Boyle show, but clearly not in this instance.
 
rednev said:
On one hand, I don't think we should be looking at censoring what comedians can make jokes about and I don't think that a joke about disability necessarily does overstep the mark. But on the other, you can't help but feel for the mum after reading the bit where said that during the entire segment her heart was racing and she wanted to cry. The solution is surely to make sure than everyone knows exactly what to expect when they go to see a show. You'd think that would be the case at a Boyle show, but clearly not in this instance.
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In fairness she's a fecking idiot. She had no issue laughing at the Frankie ripping into other people, and she says she's seen his act before, so she shouldn't have been surprised. Clearly an attention whore.
 
All of his humour is close to the knuckle, this is just picking something out at random really

There's a case for arguing perhaps it shouldn't be offered in a mainstream environment, but otherwise... come on

You can't laugh at him for his jokes one minute, then take offence when he takes the piss out of something close to you. It's two faced
 
I dunno, I don't really like mean-spirited or hateful jokes about the disabled, but I don't think its never ok to make jokes about that kind of subject matter, I mean, look at the Retarded Policeman on Youtube. Plus, she doesn't really make it clear what Boyle was saying, so you can't really say he went too far. Plus, if you're going to see Frankie Boyle, you really should expect it to be a bit edgy.
 
She could have got up and left instead of making a scene and ruining the show for the other 99.9% of people who were clearly enjoying it.

She seems like an attention seeking nob, writing about it on her blog for fecks sake. :lol:

On the other hand I've never rated Frankie Boyle. He's not witty or quick, everything he ever said on Mock The Week was just pre-written segments ripped from his stand up act.
 
I've always been confused as to why people feel the need to challenge a comedian once they've said something that offends or upsets. Why ruin the entire show for everybody rather than just slip out?
 
Frankie Boyle is known for being offensive. I feel sorry for her having to go through that, but if she was basing her whole opinion of his material on the bits they allow to be aired on Mock the Week she is not seeing much of his material at all. Even though its after the watershed, there is no way the BBC would allow some of the more offensive material to be aired, and even some of the stuff they did show sometimes feels like it has gone too far.
 
No he didnt overstep the mark as in comedy there are no marks, its not funny to them cause their child has downs syndrome, cancer jokes probably arent funny to someone who's kid has cancer, Im sure madeline mccanns parents dont find jokes about their kid funny etc etc.

Theres always going to be someone offended but that doesnt mean the joke shouldnt be told.
 
The article mentioned was that he was saying something about DS sufferers dying early in life, and responded to the women by saying it was all true.
 
Logan! said:
She could have got up and left instead of making a scene and ruining the show for the other 99.9% of people who were clearly enjoying it.

She seems like an attention seeking nob, writing about it on her blog for fecks sake. :lol:

On the other hand I've never rated Frankie Boyle. He's not witty or quick, everything he ever said on Mock The Week was just pre-written segments ripped from his stand up act.
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doesnt that apply to everyone who appears on that show.
 
CallyRed said:
So what do you think? Is really OK to laugh at disability jokes, or is it a case of being over sensitive? as it is just a joke afterall, is it not? people still tell racist jokes to one another, some find them funny, some don't, you will always get the response "its only a joke".
We know what Frankie Boyle is like, he can be very cutting and pushes the boundaries of comedy continuously, but do you think he overstepped the mark this time?
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If it's funny i'll laugh at it.

Also, Peter Cook did a bit about wanking over the Pope's dead body when Boyle was still in short trousers, so he is really not pushing the boundaries of anything by having a go at the mentally disabled.
 
as if the poor woman hasnt enough spastic kids in her life.
 
I am completely overwhelmed and drained by all of this attention and now it is time for me to move on and for me to draw a line under this. I have spent far too much time thinking about Frankie Boyle in the last few days and not enough time fangurling over Mika. The balance in my life is all wrong, wrong, wrong!

But before I move on, I feel the need to state here that I am not going to be talking about this any more after this blog post. I wont be talking to any journalists (even if they turn up at the DS support group I help run like one did this morning, or outside my front door, as another did) and I will not be replying to any tweets or blog replies (whether positive or negative). I wont be going on the One Show (yes really!) not the Today Programme, or any of the other TV and radio stations that have contacted/tried to contact me today. Sorry!

I would also like to say that I have not censored any replies on here, so you can see exactly what people think/have replied but I did turn moderation on just to avoid spammers. I havent had any, so am turning moderation off. I hope that isnt a big mistake ;)

For the record, I never intended any of this fuss to happen. And although some people think I am attention seeking, or a hypocrite, or whinging, or indeed all three, that was never my intention. In fact I dont like the attention this has brought and would right now happily hibernate for the rest of the year (apart from the 2 Mika gigs I have tickets for - wouldnt miss them for the world, naturally).

My blog was written as a quick and easy way to explain to my friends on fb and twitter as to why i had personally had such a rubbish evening. It was never intended to get the word out to the whole world (!) nor for me to get my 10mins of fame from it. Honestly.

I know some people wont believe that, and that they/others will be thinking bad of me right now, but I can do nothing to change their view of me. And to be honest they dont know me, so what does their view matter anyway?

I know in my heart of hearts that my intentions were, and my intentions have always been good. I love and adore my daughter, and am very proud of her, and I hate to see stereotypes about Down syndrome being laughed about and shared to thousands of people. I hate it when people use lazy humour to make fun of people who cannot answer back.

If the fact that I enjoy stand up comedy and I also am upset when people make fun of people with disabilities makes me a hypocrite, then I hold my hands up and admit that must be what I am. But I am only human, and I am not perfect.

If only one person stops and thinks before making fun of someone with a disability then its a good thing. Or if this whole mad episode helps someone understand that people with DS do not have bad haircuts, bad clothes, old out of touch parents, then that too can only be a good thing.

I am not on a mission, I am not a crusader. My blog was only ever intended to write a report about the evening I experienced, and the reasons why I felt upset. It was not an attack on Frankie Boyle, it was merely a factual (though obviously emotive) report on the evenings events. I dont like the humour that he used about people with DS, and I dont like the way he handled the whole situation, but I dont much like the way I handled it either. I should have walked out of the show and borne the brunt of any jokes he might have made about me leaving. But i was too cowardly to do so. I did not heckle him and would not have said anything to anybody about the nights events had he not come over and asked us what we were talking about. So I dont think anybody should be feeling proud of me, because this has all only happened by accident, because he came and spoke directly to us.

I had no intention to 'go public' with any of this. Not my style.

So... I plan to now quietly slip back to anonymity and a world full of glitter, shoes and Mika

Much love to you all x
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:rolleyes:
 
I have found the woman's Blog. It didnt take much finding in all honesty.

180 comments on it so far

Edit: Logan beat me to it
 
:smirk:

I have been meaning to start a blog for a long time now, just to jot down my random warblings and brain dumps, more for me than to gain an audience/following. It has been on my 'to do' list for so long now that I thought I would never actually get round to doing it.

Until I went to see Frankie Boyle last night on his 'I would happily punch every one of you in the face' tour - opening night of the 113 show tour at Reading Hexagon. And right now i have a huge need to do a brain dump, and twitter is just not doing it for me today ;) too much to say for 140 characters.

Last summer I booked front row tickets to see Frankie Boyle on tour - as soon as I put the phone down I wondered if i had made a massive mistake booking tickets so close to the front, hoped I would not live to regret it. Right now I wish we had not even gone to see the show, never mind the worries about front row tickets.

One of the reasons that we wanted to see Frankie Boyle was that we have seen him on shows like Mock the Week and have loved his humour, how dry he is, how nasty he is, how clever he is. We wanted to see him out of the confines of a TV editing suite, to hear him say things he could not get away with on mainstream TV. Dare I admit it, for a while towards the end of his time on MTW I even found him attractive (!) I confess publicly now that arrogant men do tend to make me weak at the knees. Well last night he made me weak all over and gave me a racing heartbeart, but for very different reasons.

My beautiful, feisty, determined 5 year old daughter has Down syndrome and last night Frankie Boyle spent a good few minutes in the second half of his show making joke after joke about people with DS. And they werent even clever or funny jokes either (though the audience were still laughing - well everyone except me and the 5 people I had gone out with last night)



I know talentless comedians like Jimmy Carr have a history and reputation of poking fun at people with disabilities, but I never expected it from Frankie Boyle. Not at all, indeed I thought he was cleverer than that. I expected dry, nasty, crude humour, yes, but unimaginitive humour poking fun at the stereotype of people with Down syndrome was not something that I expected.

I don't know whether he had planned to include a section on poking fun at people with Down syndrome, or whether it simply lead on from a joke he was making about Microsoft (following audience interaction) so I have no idea whether or not this part of his show will be included in the rest of the 'I would happily punch every one of you in the face' tour or not.

He did not seem to be stopping - jokes about the way people with DS talk, jokes about the way they dress, jokes about the jobs they can do, jokes about their haircuts, jokes about their parents being old and old-fashioned (fwiw I was 31 when I had my daughter - looking at Frankie Boyle and the various mentions of his 2yr old son last night, I would say that was a good few years younger than when he had children - and I read Grazia and shop in TopShop, hardly the stereotypical old frumpy mum eh?)

The more jokes he made, the harder I found it to stay unemotional and detached - My husband noticed and asked if i was ok. At which point Frankie noticed him talking to me and came over (oh how i wish I had not booked front row seats). He asked why we were talking during his show. I wanted the ground to swallow me up. I have never felt so small, so stupid, so emotional and tbh so pathetic. How can a stranger make me feel like that?

So i told him. I told him that my 5 yr old daughter has Down syndrome and that I was simply upset at some of his jokes. He tried to laugh it off 'ahh, but its all true isnt it? everything i have said is true isnt it?' to which I replied no, it wasnt. He then went on to say that it was the most excrutiating moment of his career but then tried to claw the humour (?) back by saying we had paid to come and see him and what should we expect. To which I replied that I understood that and that it was my personal problem/upset. He then said it was the last tour ever and that he didnt give a f*ck.

This was followed by a 5 minute explanation of his humour, and why he is so nasty, dry etc. He was obviously unsettled by the episode, but nothing like the way I felt. I truly have never felt so small.

So what was meant to be a great night out turned out to be a complete disaster. I dont feel that I did my daughter any justice at all. To the audience I was just 'some woman who got offended' (yes I have read that posted about me on twitter this morning - thanks @bryanhull). And as for Frankie Boyle, well he has already told me he doesnt give a f*ck.

I wish that I had managed to explain to them all why i was upset, to tell them how wrong the stereotypes about Down syndrome are. I wanted to show them how proud i am of my daughter, to tell them about how well she is doing at mainstream school. To show them the hundreds of pictures I have of her, so that they can see how pretty she is, that she wears pretty clothes and that she does not have bad hair (well apart from when she has put toothpaste or marmite in it anyway). I wanted to break through their prejudices and to show how wrong the stereotypes are. But instead all I did was make people think I was someone who couldnt appreciate live stand up comedy. Which isnt the case at all

I love stand up comedians, and I had been so looking forward to seeing Frankie Boyle. I have been to comedy clubs and sat through poor unimaginitive comedians poking fun at people with disabilities, and come away unscathed and not needing to start writing a blog about it. But I was disappointed in Frankie Boyle last night. He doesnt need to stoop to such low levels, such poor humour. He is better than that.

Or so I thought....
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duffer said:
If it's funny i'll laugh at it.

Also, Peter Cook did a bit about wanking over the Pope's dead body when Boyle was still in short trousers, so he is really not pushing the boundaries of anything by having a go at the mentally disabled.
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Peter Cooke did a lot worse than that.
 
"We had obviously heard him making fun of other people,"

Says it all really.

" but quite often his humour appears to be clever humour or making a point about something."

Like the amount of calories in a fat fecks breakfast?
 
love frankie boyle and she is just being fecking stupid she likes it when he takes the piss out of other people but when it relates to her she is not happy? frankie was right to tell her she should have expected it
 
Reminds me a little of the situation with Issac Hayes on South Park. The fact is this woman was laughing at everything else Frankie Boyle said until it affected her, like scientology with Hayes who was perfectly willing to have a laugh at the expense of Catholism or Islam. As the South Park creaters said, this is where bigotry begins - with hypocrisy.
 
I don't know why everyone is having a go at her. The piece makes it quite clear that it was Boyle that confronted her and not the other way round.

Sure she was maybe naive to go and watch a comedian who's entire act is based around causing offense and not expect to be offended but I don't really have a lot of time for stand ups that single out audience members. It's not like she was heckling the bloke.
 
"We had obviously heard him making fun of other people"
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So it's funny when it's taking the piss out of somebody else's circumstances?
 
The point she made about his jokes almost always making some sort of point on Mock the Week, well no shit, it's a topical panel show so his jokes will always be related to one of the topics and whether intentionally or not will inevitably end up making some sort of half arsed point about said topic.
 
1871_Biscuit said:
In fairness she's a fecking idiot. She had no issue laughing at the Frankie ripping into other people, and she says she's seen his act before, so she shouldn't have been surprised. Clearly an attention whore.
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spot on - and that is the main point IMO
 
Laugh at jokes about anything if you find them funny. There should be nothing off limits in comedy and making a distinction regarding what is ok to be made fun of and what isn't is an impossible task. Comedy must be allowed to censor itself. Jokes should be judged on how funny they are, not on who they offend. Frankie Boyle's entire act is based on offensive shocking humour. His comments about the queen and Rebbecca Adlington show that it obviously isn't just the disabled he mocks, he is controversial for the sake of being controversial and this is the very thing which has resulted in his success today. I don't find him particularly funny, so I wouldn't go to see him live but the fact that she enjoyed the rest of his show and others laughed at the disabled bit show that people obviously found it funny and the remark wasn't out of context with the rest of the show.

It sounds like a stupid joke but funny and unfunny jokes are borne out of the same process. I have a lot of sympathy for the woman- she seems quite sincere and Boyle confronted her in an attempt to get some laughs out of the issue but that's the nature of his whole routine. Anybody who goes to a routine called 'I Would Happily Punch Every One of You In The Face' and doesn't expect confrontational comedy is a little naive.
 
CassiusClaymore said:
I don't know why everyone is having a go at her. The piece makes it quite clear that it was Boyle that confronted her and not the other way round.

Sure she was maybe naive to go and watch a comedian who's entire act is based around causing offensive and not expect to be offended but I don't really have a lot of time for stand ups that single out audience members. It's not like she was heckling the bloke.
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He didn't confront her, according to the article he just saw her talking to her husband and asked about that.
 
CallyRed said:
The article mentioned was that he was saying something about DS sufferers dying early in life, and responded to the women by saying it was all true.
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A mother rang up the Stephen Nolan programme last night stating that her daughter who suffered from DS, asked her if it was true tha she was going to die soon.
 
AdZzUtd said:
Reminds me a little of the situation with Issac Hayes on South Park. The fact is this woman was laughing at everything else Frankie Boyle said until it affected her, like scientology with Hayes who was perfectly willing to have a laugh at the expense of Catholism or Islam. As the South Park creaters said, this is where bigotry begins - with hypocrisy.
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First thing that came to my mind too. It's funny until it offends her, then it's suddenly wrong. Obviously we don't know the actual jokes (or indeed the context) so can't judge either way for sure, but that's the way it sounds to me.
 
CassiusClaymore said:
I don't know why everyone is having a go at her. The piece makes it quite clear that it was Boyle that confronted her and not the other way round.
.
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Indeed. A lot of idiotic posts in this thread. I'm struggling to see what she has really done wrong here. Her 5 year old daughter has Downs, it's perfectly understandable she would get upset. I challenge any parent in the world in the same situation not to get upset. Frankie asked her what she was saying, and she responded. Fair enough. She's also pointed out it was just her personal problem, which again is fair enough.

No doubt you all love to rip the piss out of other football teams, but when someone starts seriously taking the piss out of United then it's a different matter. So fine she is a hypocrite, so what? Show me one person who isn't hypocritical, especially about the things most important to them, and I will show you a liar.

Also struggling to see how any of this make her an 'attention whore'? She doesn't appear to have gone looking for the publicity here, it just happened because Frankie pulled her up on it.
 
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