Franco Mastantuono

I’m surprised to see so many negative comment on this guy (maybe not how this place these days) he is very much touted as a future superstar and potentially the next great Argentina number 10. I’d be very excited to get him on bored but would be very surprised as we won’t have a free run at him, all the big clubs will have him on their radars.
 
Zumbi said:
This isn’t really true though, big clubs are also constantly on the look out for outstanding young talent they can snap up in the hopes they turn into superstars, and rightly so. Barcalona and Real are prime examples of that.

We should be aiming for a mix of more established players who can make us better now, and up and coming talent who can be developed. Amad for example seemed like an expensive gamble at the time but it’s now looking like some really smart scouting. We need more of that, not less.
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We're not on the lookout for talent though - we're on the lookout for starters, and we're hoping these talents happen to be the next big thing and propel us back to the top.

It's not an issue for most top teams because they've got great first 11s. It's an issue for us, because any half-decent talent we sign WILL inevitably end up starting. And then when they're not very good, we move them on cheap.
 
Camilo said:
We're not on the lookout for talent though - we're on the lookout for starters, and we're hoping these talents happen to be the next big thing and propel us back to the top.

It's not an issue for most top teams because they've got great first 11s. It's an issue for us, because any half-decent talent we sign WILL inevitably end up starting. And then when they're not very good, we move them on cheap.
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No - we’re very clearly on the lookout for both, hence links like this.

If we get Cunha and a striker, our starting positions in attack will be pretty nailed on, allowing us to also look for talent that can be developed.
 
Zumbi said:
No - we’re very clearly on the lookout for both, hence links like this.

If we get Cunha and a striker, our starting positions in attack will be pretty nailed on, allowing us to also look for talent that can be developed.
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So this squad is two attackers away from challenging?

Spending significant amounts on players we don't expect to perform immediately is surely bonkers. Spend it on players who will help us challenge for the league next season. What are we doing otherwise?! Building on sand.
 
Camilo said:
So this squad is two attackers away from challenging?

Spending significant amounts on players we don't expect to perform immediately is surely bonkers. Spend it on players who will help us challenge for the league next season. What are we doing otherwise?! Building on sand.
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That’s not what I said, so don’t strawman me.

You said we’re looking for starters, so I pointed out that our main priority right now seems to be two starters (likely Cunha & Delap).

It’s just a fact that as well as buying players for our starting 11, we are also going to continue looking to pick up very talented young players who can be developed in to first team players, and rightfully so.

Getting back on track doesn’t just mean short term fixes. It requires a better long term transfer strategy, and as with all top clubs, that means trying to scoop up the most talented young players before they become too expensive. And that’s important because it frees up more money over the long term to invest in our starting 11.
 
Zumbi said:
That’s not what I said, so don’t strawman me.

You said we’re looking for starters, so I pointed out that our main priority right now seems to be two starters (likely Cunha & Delap).

It’s just a fact that as well as buying players for our starting 11, we are also going to continue looking to pick up very talented young players who can be developed in to first team players, and rightfully so.

Getting back on track doesn’t just mean short term fixes. It requires a better long term transfer strategy, and as with all top clubs, that means trying to scoop up the most talented young players before they become too expensive. And that’s important because it frees up more money over the long term to invest in our starting 11.
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It is pretty much what you said though, or at least that's the argument for not buying starters. Don't hide behind "strawman", own your opinion eh. If we need starters buy starters. There's no future success if the club doesn't start dragging itself back up.
 
Camilo said:
It is pretty much what you said though, or at least that's the argument for not buying starters. Don't hide behind "strawman", own your opinion eh. If we need starters buy starters. There's no future success if the club doesn't start dragging itself back up.
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I never said we’re two attackers away from challenging, so it is a straw man. At least try and debate honestly.

We are clearly prioritizing starters, and assuming we succeed in buying Cunha and Delap, then they are going to start in our attack next season alongside Bruno and Amad.

In addition to buying starters, a central part of our current transfer strategy seems to be scooping up young talent who can play squad roles whilst developing into first team players. You can disagree with that strategy all you like, but that doesn’t change the reality of it. You can see it with the recent acquisitions of Chido, Heaven, Kone etc. and we are going to continue looking to buy up and coming young talent whether you like it or not.
 
If you wait for a player like this to
Fully develop before you buy him you end up spending upwards of £80Mill and people come on her to moan why don’t we buy players like this before.
 
Doesn’t make any sense right now. We need to wait two years and bring him in from Portugal for four times the price.
 
WirralRed said:
If you wait for a player like this to
Fully develop before you buy him you end up spending upwards of £80Mill and people come on her to moan why don’t we buy players like this before.
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Exactly. Real have shown how well this can work with Vinicius, Rodrygo and to an extent Endrick. Reiner was a flop and there may be more I'm missing but look how good those first two have become. It's a great way to go about things if you can pull it off.

I'd be all for rolling the dice on this guy.
 
WirralRed said:
If you wait for a player like this to
Fully develop before you buy him you end up spending upwards of £80Mill and people come on her to moan why don’t we buy players like this before.
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Or he's just another average player we've wasted our limited funds on. See Martial, see Hojlund.
 
Camilo said:
So this squad is two attackers away from challenging?

Spending significant amounts on players we don't expect to perform immediately is surely bonkers. Spend it on players who will help us challenge for the league next season. What are we doing otherwise?! Building on sand.
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Isn't getting players to challenge next season pointless? We won't be challenging regardless.
 
Zumbi said:
I never said we’re two attackers away from challenging, so it is a straw man. At least try and debate honestly.

We are clearly prioritizing starters, and assuming we succeed in buying Cunha and Delap, then they are going to start in our attack next season alongside Bruno and Amad.

In addition to buying starters, a central part of our current transfer strategy seems to be scooping up young talent who can play squad roles whilst developing into first team players. You can disagree with that strategy all you like, but that doesn’t change the reality of it. You can see it with the recent acquisitions of Chido, Heaven, Kone etc. and we are going to continue looking to buy up and coming young talent whether you like it or not.
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I don't see how we're prioritising starters if we're debating whether spending 40 million on a kid who apparently won't have any pressure to perform is a good idea or not.

If he was 5 million, sure. But this is big money on a total unknown, which could be put towards another first 11 player.
 
Hammondo said:
Isn't getting players to challenge next season pointless? We won't be challenging regardless.
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Why not? It's only football. Get some good players and coach them properly. Do that and why wouldn't we challenge?

Such doom and gloom in here. It's not rocket science.
 
Similar to Barco the left back that Brighton brought talent wise. Technically superb but slight. If we can get him go all in for me. Adds a bit of magic and excitement. Miss this in football currently for me.
 
Camilo said:
Why not? It's only football. Get some good players and coach them properly. Do that and why wouldn't we challenge?

Such doom and gloom in here. It's not rocket science.
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Well that's the mentality we have had for years and it's got us nowhere.
 
Camilo said:
I don't see how we're prioritising starters if we're debating whether spending 40 million on a kid who apparently won't have any pressure to perform is a good idea or not.

If he was 5 million, sure. But this is big money on a total unknown, which could be put towards another first 11 player.
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All of the evidence is that we’re prioritizing starters for our attack. Seems a bit silly getting upset about some rumours about this kid whilst some of the most reliable transfer journalists in the business are reporting that we’re prioritizing wrapping up early deals for Cunha and Delap - two players who would definitely be starters for us.
 
Camilo said:
It is pretty much what you said though, or at least that's the argument for not buying starters. Don't hide behind "strawman", own your opinion eh. If we need starters buy starters. There's no future success if the club doesn't start dragging itself back up.
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That's not what they said. As someone just reading through the thread, it's very obvious to me and I thought "clear strawman" before even seeing them reply. Don't then also turn to gaslighting when you're called out on it. That was not their opinion, you put words in their mouth and twisted what they said.

Their point isn't difficult to grasp. We will continue to invest in both starters and potential future talent. We've always done this, it's very normal.

Garnacho is one of many examples. As is Amad. The idea being that you can get a player in for a few million up to an Amad level fee, to prevent paying 60/70/80 for that player 2/3 years later.

Obviously there has to be a balance but you need to invest in both, with the plan being that if you get the youth investment correct you don't then need to be buying 3-5 starters every summer. If all you buy is players to go in the starting 11 then, with the price of players as it is, you're going to spend a fortune consistently to keep turning that over.

I know many fans like to fantasise every transfer window about the club buying 5-9 players to go into the starting 11 and they enjoy making horrendous looking squad lists, featuring the new multiple teams the new look squad can formulate, but it never actually goes like that in the real world.
 
croadyman said:
The question is can we make the necessary sales to fund deals for the likes of Ederson and Mastantuono
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Well with these book values now etc its hard to tell what money raised actually adds to a transfer kitty,but even selling cheap we have so many potential sales of decent value that also take a huge amount from our wage bill.

Bar Cunha and possibly Mastantuono,vast majority of our feasible targets linked seem feasible prices. Personally what I have seen of Ederson,think though a good player,like the South American midfielder we signed last summer....he isnt special, is over rated and over priced....think Wharton and Baleba and Wharton would add far more....but probably cost more. We have Mainoo/mount/Fernandes for 1cm spot, Ugarte for the other and maybe still Casemiro if he stays.....would like us to see Sekou Kone as the other option.....

As I feel our money should go on a GK, RB, CF and L/r 10s maybe even numerous signings in to of those positions.

This is why I feel Cunhas signing...even possibly playing up front versatility wise really makes a Cherki/Mora/Mastantuono signing really prudent....as bar Obi as a prospect and Diallo....all our attacking options in my opinion are average at best....rather Cunha and two of those three over a CM
 
WirralRed said:
I’m surprised to see so many negative comment on this guy (maybe not how this place these days) he is very much touted as a future superstar and potentially the next great Argentina number 10. I’d be very excited to get him on bored but would be very surprised as we won’t have a free run at him, all the big clubs will have him on their radars.
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The problem is City already signed that and left him on loan at the same club, Claudio Echeverri - where he was usually picked instead of Mastantuono. He is a bit older but River, having him on loan had no reason to play him over Mastantuono unless he would get them more points.



Compared to him, Mastantuono has some qualities that might see him play wide (More speed, not quite the same ball control and technique) so might not even end up as a 10. He has played 10 games on the right wing and 2 as an AM. Claudio Echeverri has been at City this season since Jan and hasnt played for the first team or the youth teams...

Having said all of that he's a talented young player who can run with the ball and has scored some nice freekicks. He's easily good enough to be a signing for us. He doesnt need to be anywhere near Argentina's best bet for their next great #10 for that.
 
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Playing in the River Boca derby, seems to be handling himself quite well, albeit 15 mins in.

Marcos Rojo with a couple of Marcus Rojo type challenges
 
Just scored. Seems like a lot of our targets are doing really well
 
Rozay said:
Similar profile to the also 17 year old Shea Lacey.
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Exactly and I’d hate to see us do what we’ve been doing for a decade in ignoring what we have coming through the academy in order to buy an exotic sounding wonder kid, from the videos I’ve seen he looks potentially great but we’ve already got Amad as well as Lacey and Mantato coming through.
 
davidmichael said:
Exactly and I’d hate to see us do what we’ve been doing for a decade in ignoring what we have coming through the academy in order to buy an exotic sounding wonder kid, from the videos I’ve seen he looks potentially great but we’ve already got Amad as well as Lacey and Mantato coming through.
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This guys had tons of first team appearances though. Think Amorim would love him. Imagine him, Cunha and Amad for the 10 roles
 
DJ_21 said:
This guys had tons of first team appearances though. Think Amorim would love him. Imagine him, Cunha and Amad for the 10 roles
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17 years old in the fastest and most physical league in the world in a niche position for an unstable club with a coach who may not see Christmas unless things dramatically improve as soon as next season starts ?

Looks a great prospect and just seen his free kick but we don’t even have a solid foundation let alone in a place for luxury wonder kids. We need a keeper, a right wing back, a left wing back, a Casemiro replacement, an Eriksen replacement, a left sided 10 and a striker whilst sailing close PSR wise.
 
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