Brazilian/Fat Ronaldo was better than Van Bastan, many people consider him the best striker ever, and if it wasn't for his injuries he could have went down as the greatest ever.
Franco Baresi
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) talk about the proposed new stadium, season ticket prices, Sir Jim Ratcliffe and all things INEOS after the first year of their co-ownership.
They also discuss back-to-back victories vs. Real Sociedad and Leicester City - was this the best week for Amorim so far?
Brazilian/Fat Ronaldo was better than Van Bastan, many people consider him the best striker ever, and if it wasn't for his injuries he could have went down as the greatest ever.
I only remember watching him play in the CL final 93' against Marseilles and at world cup 94. He was immense.
Trust me, it was incredibly difficult for me to say what I did about Keane. But the fact remains that while he was incredibly good at positioning himself, tackling and had incredible levels of stamina and resolve, he was average to weak when it came to the offensive aspects of being a midfielder. He was not a playmaker by any stretch of the imagination, however, he was very aware of his shortcomings and could pick out a more progressive teammate nearby (Scholes / Beckham / Giggs / Veron) with a short pass and let them direct play. He was a colossus and I would make him the captain of my team in a heartbeat.
If the point of reference is 2015, then I'd say we lack truly amazing number tens at this point of time. There is no number ten right now fit to lace the boots of a Laudrup or a Savićević. The best I can think of are converted wide forwards like Messi and Hazard. Iniesta would have been a good shout a year back, but I'd pick Cantona circa '92 over him right now. But then, I think football overall is pretty weak in 2015, as opposed to, say, 2013. I cannot imagine someone like Pogba being counted among the best midfielders in the world in 85 or 95 or even 05. A bright talent, sure, but not the finished article.
But yeah, except for central defence, there definitely hasn't been a precipitous decline. I can get behind that.
The most dominant midfielder of all time? How old are you if I may ask?
Boban was one of the most intelligent and graceful midfielders I've ever seen. He may not have been the paciest player around but his passing and talent was sublime. And what makes you think that Modric would have a better career? Boban moved from a small club to a top one at age 23. Modric did the same at age 27. They both won the CL and Super cup however Boban won 4 Serie A titles and 3 Italian super cups in contast to Modric coppa del re and supercoppa de espana. Considering he's 29 and Real Madrid innate love for the next sensation I cant see him topping that.
The best ever from the great libero's, if we count purely defensive performances. I slightly prefer Scirea though, but I love both to bits.
Van Basten's career wasn't exactly a bed of roses in that regard. Ronaldo's injury started sooner but was degenerative (its stole his magic little by little). Van Basten's career was cut short at the prime of his days.
I think that there are some great players around at the moment (Messi and Ronaldo) however there's a massive dip in terms of quantity in quality. Take the national sides. Apart from the rare exception of Spain and Germany (the latter remained the same powerhouse of the 90s), all big nations had seen a dip in terms of talent. England, Italy, Argentina, Brazil, Holland etc. The Linekers, the Gazzas, The Roberto Baggios and the Van Bastens are gone and are being replaced by the Welbecks, Hendersons, Balotellis and Huntelaars. Similar tendencies are occurring with the so called 'smaller' sides. Yeah Japan, Portugal and Belgium had improved through the years. However are they as talented and as influential as Sweden, Denmark and Yugoslavia were back in the late 80s, early 90s? I much doubt it.
It was probably really unfair of me to hold that against Franco, when the fault was mainly Sacchi's. Playing that high line against that Napoli attack wasn't really wise. Maldini got schooled as well.
I still don't get why you pick the superstars from back then and compare them to less important players in the nationalteams of today. Robben and van Persie are the standouts in the Dutch side today. They might not be as great as van Basten and Rijkaard, but they sure as hell are fantastic players and should be the ones mentioned and not fecking Huntelaar. Same goes for ignoring Rooney but comparing Welbeck instead to Lineker. All of a sudden your point is nowhere near as strong anymore.
You've got a point. Are there any Dutch here to ask what would they prefer between Van Persie or Van Basten, Sneijder or Gullit, Strootman or Rijkaard, Vlaar or Koeman and Martins Indi or Blind. What about England? Would you prefer Henderson or Carrick to Bryan Robson and Gazza? Rooney to Lineker? Townsend to Barnes? Hart to Shilton? Tough choice indeed. I tend to have many friends in Italy and surely as hell they wouldn't prefer Balotelli or Pelle to Baggio and Vialli.
What I admire about Rio was that he was able to play in a defense filled with average players and make it look rock solid. Maldini, Scirea and Baresi had never played with defenders of the level of Wes Brown, Silvestre and OShit.
At his peak he had Nemanja Vidic and Patrice Evra alongside him, both right up there with the best in the world.
It's just sad that your silly exaggerations deflect from your valid points. Rio never made a defense filled with average players look rock solid, he had great defenders with Vidic and Evra next to him, when United's defense in fact was rock solid.
Rio signed in 2002, Vidic/Evra were signed in 2006. United's defense in 2002-2003 consisted of Rio, the Neville brothers, a 90 year old something Laurent Blanc, David May Superstar, John OShit, Wes Brown and Silvestre. I almost forgot we also had someone called Roche and another one called Lynch too. In 2003-2004 Blanc and May retired or left. In 2004-2005 we added Heinze and Pique started showing up. In 2006-2007 we added Evra and Vidic. That's 4 years guys!
http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/manchester-united/2003/2/
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And it was hardly great, we regularly shipped goals. It's not like Rio partnered those names and won the CL or something. There's a reason buying all three of VDS, Evra and Vidic changed our backline completely and made it reliable against any opposition. The period between Stam leaving and Vidic coming, our defense was always shaky. Be it the constant change of keepers or inconsistency of our defenders. Rio's peak for United is 06-09, pretty much co-inciding with Vidic, VDS and Evra.
Below is a rough guide in terms of players just to help with the debate as a reference point, I am sure there are some huge names missing.
***
There has been a clear decline in quality in the current game in certain positions. The level of defenders today is very poor.. the poorest in any era of football, the excuse about how the game is much quicker doesn't wash with me, the reading of the game just isn't there in the current crop.. a few years back we had Rio, Nesta etc perfectly modern defenders with a brilliant feel for the game. I am hoping Varane is the first of a new breed of next generation complete defenders, so we can move away from the likes of Ramos being seen as one of the world's best.
In terms of positions (in my opinion)..
Goalkeepers:
Lev Yashin
Gordon BANKS
Dino Zoff
Defenders:
Velibor VASOVIĆ
Bobby MOORE
Cesare MALDINI
Karl-Heinz SCHNELLINGER
Giacinto FACCHETTI
Jimmy ARMFIELD
Djalma Santos
Nilton Santos
John Charles
Midfielders:
DIDI
Franz Beckenbauer
Josef MASOPUST
LUIS SUAREZ Miramontes
Mário COLUNA
Bobby CHARLTON
Gianni Rivera
Dragan DŽAJIĆ
George BEST
Jimmy JOHNSTONE
Florian Albert
Ladoslav Kubala
Attackers:
Omar SIVORI
George Best
PELÉ
Denis LAW
EUSÉBIO
Uwe SEELER
Garrincha
GENTO
Puskas
Kocsis
DI Stefano
Czibor
Lev Yashin
Gordon BANKS
Dino Zoff
Defenders:
Velibor VASOVIĆ
Bobby MOORE
Cesare MALDINI
Karl-Heinz SCHNELLINGER
Giacinto FACCHETTI
Jimmy ARMFIELD
Djalma Santos
Nilton Santos
John Charles
Midfielders:
DIDI
Franz Beckenbauer
Josef MASOPUST
LUIS SUAREZ Miramontes
Mário COLUNA
Bobby CHARLTON
Gianni Rivera
Dragan DŽAJIĆ
George BEST
Jimmy JOHNSTONE
Florian Albert
Ladoslav Kubala
Attackers:
Omar SIVORI
George Best
PELÉ
Denis LAW
EUSÉBIO
Uwe SEELER
Garrincha
GENTO
Puskas
Kocsis
DI Stefano
Czibor
Goalkeepers:
Dino ZOFF
Peter SHILTON
Filliol
Defenders:
Daniel PASSARELLA
Franz BECKENBAUER
Elías FIGUEROA
Ruud KROL
Berti VOGTS
CARLOS ALBERTO
Paul BREITNER
Midfielders:
Marco TARDELLI
Willem VAN HANEGEM
Johan NEESKENS
GÉRSON
Gunter NETZER
RIVELINO
Teófilo CUBILLAS
Attackers:
Rob RENSENBRINK
JAIRZINHO
Johan CRUYFF
Mario KEMPES
Kenny DALGLISH
Kevin KEEGAN
Gerd MÜLLER
Dino ZOFF
Peter SHILTON
Filliol
Defenders:
Daniel PASSARELLA
Franz BECKENBAUER
Elías FIGUEROA
Ruud KROL
Berti VOGTS
CARLOS ALBERTO
Paul BREITNER
Midfielders:
Marco TARDELLI
Willem VAN HANEGEM
Johan NEESKENS
GÉRSON
Gunter NETZER
RIVELINO
Teófilo CUBILLAS
Attackers:
Rob RENSENBRINK
JAIRZINHO
Johan CRUYFF
Mario KEMPES
Kenny DALGLISH
Kevin KEEGAN
Gerd MÜLLER
Goalkeepers:
PETER Shilton
Jean-Marie PFAFF
Rinat DASAYEV
Defenders:
Giuseppe BERGOMI
Forster
Gentile
Eric Gerets
Franco BARESI
Gaetano SCIREA
Alan HANSEN
Andreas BREHME
Hans-Peter BRIEGEL
Paul McGrath
Paulo Maldini
Midfielders:
Paul Breitner
Frank RIJKAARD
Lothar MATTHÄUS
Schuster
Bryan ROBSON
FALCÃO
SOCRATES
ZICO
Michel PLATINI
Ruud GULLIT
BONIEK
Attackers:
Michael Laudrup
Diego MARADONA
Karl-Heinz RUMMENIGGE
Hugo SANCHEZ
Marco VAN BASTEN
Emilio BUTRAGUEÑO
Gary LINEKER
Paolo ROSSI
Kenny Dalglish
Eljkaer
PETER Shilton
Jean-Marie PFAFF
Rinat DASAYEV
Defenders:
Giuseppe BERGOMI
Forster
Gentile
Eric Gerets
Franco BARESI
Gaetano SCIREA
Alan HANSEN
Andreas BREHME
Hans-Peter BRIEGEL
Paul McGrath
Paulo Maldini
Midfielders:
Paul Breitner
Frank RIJKAARD
Lothar MATTHÄUS
Schuster
Bryan ROBSON
FALCÃO
SOCRATES
ZICO
Michel PLATINI
Ruud GULLIT
BONIEK
Attackers:
Michael Laudrup
Diego MARADONA
Karl-Heinz RUMMENIGGE
Hugo SANCHEZ
Marco VAN BASTEN
Emilio BUTRAGUEÑO
Gary LINEKER
Paolo ROSSI
Kenny Dalglish
Eljkaer
***
Goalkeepers:
Oliver Kahn
Peter SCHMEICHEL
Michel PREUD'HOMME
Defenders:
Marcel DESAILLY
Jurgen KOHLER
Matthias SAMMER
Fernando HIERRO
Jaap Stam
Lilian THURAM
Paolo MALDINI
CAFU
ROBERTO CARLOS
Midfielders:
REDONDO
Roy KEANE
Stefan EFFENBERG
Zvonmir BOBAN
Josep GUARDIOLA
Paul Gascoigne
David BECKHAM
Ryan GIGGS
Michael LAUDRUP
Zinedine ZIDANE
Gheorghe HAGI
Edgar Davids
Attackers:
Dennis BERGKAMP
Dejan SAVICEVIC
RIVALDO
Roberto BAGGIO
Alan Shearer
Hristo STOICHKOV
Gabriel BATISTUTA
RONALDO
ROMÁRIO
Oliver Kahn
Peter SCHMEICHEL
Michel PREUD'HOMME
Defenders:
Marcel DESAILLY
Jurgen KOHLER
Matthias SAMMER
Fernando HIERRO
Jaap Stam
Lilian THURAM
Paolo MALDINI
CAFU
ROBERTO CARLOS
Midfielders:
REDONDO
Roy KEANE
Stefan EFFENBERG
Zvonmir BOBAN
Josep GUARDIOLA
Paul Gascoigne
David BECKHAM
Ryan GIGGS
Michael LAUDRUP
Zinedine ZIDANE
Gheorghe HAGI
Edgar Davids
Attackers:
Dennis BERGKAMP
Dejan SAVICEVIC
RIVALDO
Roberto BAGGIO
Alan Shearer
Hristo STOICHKOV
Gabriel BATISTUTA
RONALDO
ROMÁRIO
Goalkeepers:
Oliver KAHN
Gianluigi BUFFON
Iker Casillas
Van Der Sar
Defenders:
Alessandro NESTA
Fabio CANNAVARO
Carles PUYOL
Rio FERDINAND
Gianluca ZAMBROTTA
Javier ZANETTI
ASHLEY cole
Gary Neville
JOHN Terry
Phillip Lahm
Patrice EVRA
Nemanja VIDIC
Midfielders:
Claude MAKÉLÉLÉ
Patrick VIEIRA
Andrea PIRLO
Steven GERRARD
Luis FIGO
Pavel NEDVĔD
KAKA
Zinedine Zidane
RIQUELME
Michael Ballack
Paul Scholes
Xavi
Iniesta
Attackers:
Cristiano RONALDO
RONALDINHO
Francesco TOTTI
Lionel MESSI
Thierry HENRY
RAUL
Ruud VAN NISTELROOY
Arjen Robben
SAMUEL Etoo
Didier Drogba
David Villa
Oliver KAHN
Gianluigi BUFFON
Iker Casillas
Van Der Sar
Defenders:
Alessandro NESTA
Fabio CANNAVARO
Carles PUYOL
Rio FERDINAND
Gianluca ZAMBROTTA
Javier ZANETTI
ASHLEY cole
Gary Neville
JOHN Terry
Phillip Lahm
Patrice EVRA
Nemanja VIDIC
Midfielders:
Claude MAKÉLÉLÉ
Patrick VIEIRA
Andrea PIRLO
Steven GERRARD
Luis FIGO
Pavel NEDVĔD
KAKA
Zinedine Zidane
RIQUELME
Michael Ballack
Paul Scholes
Xavi
Iniesta
Attackers:
Cristiano RONALDO
RONALDINHO
Francesco TOTTI
Lionel MESSI
Thierry HENRY
RAUL
Ruud VAN NISTELROOY
Arjen Robben
SAMUEL Etoo
Didier Drogba
David Villa
Today..
GK:
Neuer
De Gea
Courtios
Defenders:
Lahm
Thiago Silva
Chiellini
Varane
Sergio Ramos
Jerome Boateng
Mats Hummels
Marcelo
David Alaba
Pique
Dani Carvajal
Midfielders
Luka Modric
Toni Kroos
Andres Iniesta
Veratti
Pogba
Xabi Alonso
Schweinsteiger
Pirlo
Vidal
Attackers
C. Ronaldo
Robben
Bale
Messi
Neymar
Suarez
Robben
Ribery
Aguero
Lewandowski
GK:
Neuer
De Gea
Courtios
Defenders:
Lahm
Thiago Silva
Chiellini
Varane
Sergio Ramos
Jerome Boateng
Mats Hummels
Marcelo
David Alaba
Pique
Dani Carvajal
Midfielders
Luka Modric
Toni Kroos
Andres Iniesta
Veratti
Pogba
Xabi Alonso
Schweinsteiger
Pirlo
Vidal
Attackers
C. Ronaldo
Robben
Bale
Messi
Neymar
Suarez
Robben
Ribery
Aguero
Lewandowski
There has been a clear decline in quality in the current game in certain positions. The level of defenders today is very poor.. the poorest in any era of football, the excuse about how the game is much quicker doesn't wash with me, the reading of the game just isn't there in the current crop.. a few years back we had Rio, Nesta etc perfectly modern defenders with a brilliant feel for the game. I am hoping Varane is the first of a new breed of next generation complete defenders, so we can move away from the likes of Ramos being seen as one of the world's best.
In terms of positions (in my opinion)..
- 60's had the best goalkeepers followed by 90's/00s
- Tough to call defence, full back wise I'd say 60's/90's and centre back wise I'd go 70's/80's but not conclusive for me.
- 80's I would say had the best midfielders, best ever number 10's (Diego, Platini, Zico) and great array of box to box midfielders, followed by 90's/60's.
- Wingers has to be the 60s followed by the late 00s/current day. One of the best thing about the modern game is the rise of the complete winger, guys like Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Messi, Robben have defined the modern game for me and the 60's had amazing wing talent, Garrincha and Best to name but a few.
- Forwards.. again I would go with the late 50's-mid 60s due to the sheer depth in talent, Pele, Puskas, Di Stefano, Eusebio. The forwards were very complete from that era but obviously number 9 wise, the 90's was a great era with the Brazilian Ronaldo leading from the front.
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Yugoslavia was definitely stronger back then. Modric easily holds his own against any elite eastern european player from the past, he is a proven top talent in the modern game and should be given kudos for that. I would say he merits being compared to the likes of Boban, Savicevic.. he was brilliant in Euro 2008 and he has excelled against the best midfielders in the modern game.
The rest of that modern list of players do not deserve to be compared to those greats of the past, Dzeko/Mandzukic v Suker, Boksic etc is a non contest and Matic/Rakitic are decent but still not proven at the very highest level yet. They're definitely nowhere near someone like Boban in terms of talent considering their respective positions.
It was good enough for us to win the EPL in 2002-2003 and the FA Cup the year after. Considering how ridiculously shit that defend was Rio deserve all the praise he can get. In my opinion he was as instrumental back than as Ronaldo and Cantona were in their glory days and DDG is now. He was literally the difference between us seriously competing for the league or ending up 3rd-4th.
I dont share your view that Rio peaked in 2006. I believe he was consistently good between the early period and the period you're mentioned. Its just that we replaced the chaff with some real talent. Gaz-Rio-Vidic-Evra was the second best defense I've ever witnessed in football.
Anyway my original point was that Baresi, Scirea and co were never in that situation. Would you compare Gaz with Tassotti, Silvestre/Wes with Costacurta or OShea/Phil with Maldini? Not in a million years.
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@Raees Great post, but you left Ronaldo out of the present day list. 
@Raees Great post, but you left Ronaldo out of the present day list.
Fixed!
Somebody questions whether baresi is that good???
Dear me, put beckenbauer and we may have a debate, the rest are not good enough to polish his boots.
Speaking of rough play. Defender back then have their share of knock, every player dished out tackles right left centre, it's not just defender.
Tldr : he's a god of defender
Dear me, put beckenbauer and we may have a debate, the rest are not good enough to polish his boots.
Speaking of rough play. Defender back then have their share of knock, every player dished out tackles right left centre, it's not just defender.
Tldr : he's a god of defender
You are not going to make your argument stronger by mocking John O'Shea. He was a great servant to this club and always tried his best, which was not world class but not shit either.
I actually liked him. He always managed to get the best out of players especially opponent strikers (Falcao being the latest name of a long list).
Seriously if he wasn't a homegrown talent he would have never played for United. He's a Sunderland's level of defender at best.
And I never actually understood the great servant for the club thing. I mean its not as if we had a list of big clubs wanting him and which he refused!
I actually liked him. He always managed to get the best out of players especially opponent strikers (Falcao being the latest name of a long list).
Seriously if he wasn't a homegrown talent he would have never played for United. He's a Sunderland's level of defender at best.
He was a good utility player for a number of years, never good enough to start regularly (ahead of Rio or Vidic), but a decent squad player. He also nutmugged Figo.
Yeah heard that. It was the time when we used to believe that we could never get players from Athletic Bilbao let alone Real because 'they would never leave the sun to come to cold Manchester' thing. Under such circumstances we had to make due with what we have and OShea became 'useful'
And you may not remember but back in the early 2000s the defense suffered the same fate the midfield suffered during SAF's last years. Quality defenders like Stam, Johnsen and Irwin left/retired and for quite a long period of time SAF refused to buy big. He believed that our homegrown talent were good enough and we suffered alot because of it. I still remember his snipe at Rio (who signed for Leeds for 18m) were he said that if Rio is worth 18m then Wes is worth 30m. Anyway bottom line of the story is that we ended up spending big on Rio, Vidic, Heinze and Evra because we DESPERATELY NEEDED THEM and we needed them so much because the rest...oh well...you know how it ends.
Come to think about it, the only homegrown defender who became a quality regular player was Gaz. The rest rotted on the ben....became great servants of the clubs until we offloaded them to the clubs they truly belonged to.
To be fair out of the crop I would have given Phil a second chance. He was terrible in defense but I used to like him in midfield. He could have developed into a poor man Gattuso if we wanted it.
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... and scored that goal against the arse.
Are we really talking about John O'Shea in the Franco Baresi thread?
... and scored that goal against the arse.
Are we really talking about John O'Shea in the Franco Baresi thread?
Shhh both were 'great servants of their clubs' and TBF Baresi last year with Milan was pretty Osheasque standards.
I still shiver at the memory of seeing an ageing Baresi trying to keep up with a young Vieri. It was the second most painful game I've watched.Yeah, although Johsnen wasn't exactly world class either. Stam was better than Vidic imo, Irwin as good as Evra.
Don't think Phil was ever good enough, couldn't nail down a position in the starting eleven and I think we would have been poorer long term if he had. An English O'Shea imo.
Well I rated Johnsen highly. Before we signed Stam he was our best defender (Irwin was showing signs of decline). Irwin was, in my opinion, SAF's best ever fullback. What a player!
Phil, I used to hate him (player wise of course). His crossing was crap and his tackles in the box (or just outside of it) were a toss of a coin. You knew that 50% of the time he would commit a foul. However my opinion changed once he moved in midfield. He was no Keane but he was committed, hardworking and would mark a player out of the game in any way possible. Its such a shame that SAF didn't considered that as good enough.
OShea was Phil - the commitment and with a bit of more talent.
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I personally think there's a real tendency to overrate players of previous generations. The way the current day players are dismissed as not even worth a comparison is a bit ridiculous.
Actually, I'm inclined to agree with the bolded part. Free kicks, crosses, shots, defensively sound, constantly reliable.
I never really rated Johnsen, but that's a matter of opinion. Thing with Neville is, he was never going to be better than Butt in midfield (not close imo) and Butt wasn't good enough to get in over Scholes/Keane.
But I'm derailing the topic.
Works the other way as well. People tend to forget players of previous generations were as good/better than any players around at the moment.
Nowhere near as often.
This is way too generic a statement. Which comparisons look ridiculous to you? Do you think Sergio Ramos and Thiago Silva are of the same standard as Franco Baresi?
If Paul McGrath played today, he'd be transferring to Real Madrid or PSG for £60m. Alcohol, knees and all.
Early 30s mate. I don't think its an outlandish claim. One of the main players in two of the most successful teams ever, and pivotal to a style of play that seen them dominate the midfield in the vast majority of games they played.
Baresi was fantastic, possibly the greatest real central defender in history. I've never seen any CB who so aggressively looked to intercept the play by pushing forward so much. That is where he really stands out for me even compared to other all time greats, he had that ability to kill the opponents attack one pass before it got dangerous.
More or less every other defender waits until the killer pass and looks to intercept or put in a tackle at that point. The lad had no weakness either, which is probably more important as a defender than having some great strength like Koeman's with his passing.
More or less every other defender waits until the killer pass and looks to intercept or put in a tackle at that point. The lad had no weakness either, which is probably more important as a defender than having some great strength like Koeman's with his passing.
Plus since it is fresh in everyone's memory and the fact we live in an era where basically every match of professional Football is available for viewing somewhere. So it is very easy to remember many of the mistakes current players. And with older players with the benefit of nostalgia and the fact that most of their matches are unavailable for viewing it is easier to just remember their best moments.
You are rewriting history here. Vidic and Evra didn't cost big bucks at all.
O'Shea was a great servant. It's not just about being top quality and being wanted by others.
He had a great attitude, clearly well liked by everyone at the club and wasn't a starter, but kept at it and performed when called upon. For the attitude bit I offer exhibit one, the infinitely more talented Mario Balotelli. For the professionalism you have exhibit 2, the infinitely more talented Anderson.
Anyhow, we are derailing the thread, but I don't see why there's any need to call O'Shea O'Shit, clubs need squad players like him and they have always been an important part of our success given we can't keep an XI fit for more than a couple of weeks at a time.
In total we spent around 50m+. Looking back it was a bargain considering that we bought an entire defense but that was big money at the time and we did so because WE NEED IT (Rio, Vidic, Heinze and Evra). Most of the 'homegrown talent' were simply not good enough.
And I am pretty sure that if you or me were paid good money to play for Manchester United we would be great servants for the club. First of all because Manchester United is the team we love. Secondly because the alternatives to United are hardly spectacular. I am confident that OShea is a better player than us. However I am also sure that the alternative to United would have been a smaller club at a much lower salary/perks. I doubt Oshea is stupid.
I dont believe that any club can have 22 world class players. However I don't think that a club like United ever needed players with no chance of ever being first team level either. I dont share your opinion about his so called professionalism either. Being happy to sit on the bench while you're being handsomely paid for it isn't professionalism. Doing your very best to be a first teamer is and that's why I admire the likes of Phil (who talent wise was even worse than OShea) and Gattuso more than him. And that's exactly what pisses me off. If Oshea had the Nevilles/Gattuso attitude then maybe he would have been more than the happiest bench warmer erm servant United had ever had (bar Anderson). His first season hinted that (the season he nutmegged Figo).
But there again standards were allowed to slip in SAF's last years and when you compare Oshea to the one who stayed at the club for his final 3-4 years without doing anything useful or the other one who was given a 5 year contract despite the manager knowing of his career threatening injury than you can easily close an eye or two to OShit. However let me assure you one thing, a player like OShea shouldnt have stayed at United for so long. He simply lacked both the talent AND the attitude to do so.
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