Franco Baresi

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
28,699
Location
...
Just how good was he? I know he was obviously very good, but I can't recall much of him playing. When I was a bit younger, he seemed to be referred to as the standard in terms of centre-halves, but since then - I don't really hear many references to him anymore. I often hear Bobby Moore, Rio, Nesta or Maldini in conversations regarding defensive standards.

Where does Franco rank? I'm guessing @devilish or the Chief may be insightful here.
 
The only one there that compares to Baresi is Maldini IMO, and despite the increased importance on ball-playing defenders in the modern game there is no-one even close to Baresi in that aspect.
 
Last edited:
A long time since I saw him play. (No re-runs of his games in the UK)
What always stuck with me was his ability to judge the flight of a cross, and the route an opponent would need to take to get there, then just make it impossible for him to do so. On top of that, he obviously read the game brilliantly and was hard as nails.
At the time, it was odd to me that I found it as pleasing to watch a defender as some of Serie A's top attacking players.

 
Loved watching this guy play. One of the last great (if not greatest) sweepers to play a dominant role.

Note: Loved watching McNair´s and Smalling´s runs last week, although they made me a hell of a lot more nervous than Baresi would.
 
Brwned said:
The only one there that compares to Baresi is Maldini IMO, and despite the increased importance on ball-playing defenders in the modern game there is no-one even close to Baresi in that aspect.
Click to expand...

So yould say he was better than Rio/Nesta in their prime? Personally, I think Rio is the best centre-half I've ever seen play.
 
Too short for the modern game. Thrived in an era where it is factually proven that the human population was its shortest.
 
Skills said:
Too short for the modern game. Thrived in an era where it is factually proven that the human population was its shortest.
Click to expand...

Fabio Cannavaro came much later and thrived to be fair. Also, one of my favourite and more underrated of his time - Ivan Cordoba - was tiny but brilliant.
 
Brilliant in the '94 WC Final, then Diana Ross-ed his penalty over the bar in the shootout
 
Maldini doesn't come close to Baresi for me, the latter was a proper leader in defence.. the fulcrum of those great Italian and Milan backlines. As good as a left back/centre-back Maldini was, he wasn't a tour de force like Baresi.

Ferdinand and Nesta are not in his league either for me.

For me only someone like Beckenbauer can surpass him and even then as a pure centre back, I think Baresi is unrivalled in terms of his stature in the game. His exploits at both club level and international level mean he surpasses Moore too.

Mixture of an elite ball playing sweeper, rock hard defender, very athletic and incomparable leadership and organisational skills. You'll never see someone with all these components.
 
Last edited:
I'm watching that video and thinking he would have struggled with the modern game. There's about 20 yellows, 10 reds, acres of space you just don't see these days and the forwards make Falcao look like Usain Bolt.
Bitesaplenty
 
He was great, I've actually had the pleasure of watching him live in a stadium, alongside Gullit, Donadoni, Maldini. Not their best game though.
 
Last edited:
Rozay said:
So yould say he was better than Rio/Nesta in their prime? Personally, I think Rio is the best centre-half I've ever seen play.
Click to expand...

A completely different beast. Although I'm fully expecting @Aldo to come in yapping about Scirea being better and posting a certain clip of the one game when the best player ever shat on that Milan defence. That's what it would take, the best ever in his most inspired form, everyone else just didn't have a chance.
 
Pexbo said:
I'm watching that video and thinking he would have struggled with the modern game. There's about 20 yellows, 10 reds, acres of space you just don't see these days and the forwards make Falcao look like Usain Bolt.
Bitesaplenty
Click to expand...

Watch the 1994 World Cup final then, Romario was no slouch and would destroy modern defences as easily as he destroyed the ones back then. They could have played for days and Brazil wouldn't have scored.
 
Piscinin was significantly better than Nesta and Rio to be honest, and was probably the most complete defender in the history of football, with Maldini, Moore, Figueroa, and Krol behind him.

A lot of great defenders are good at certain aspects. eg. The likes of Gentile, Tresor and Bergomi were great pure defenders but a little suspect with their technique in possession, and weren't great offensive threats so to speak. Beckenauer and Scirea were marvelous liberos, the two biggest proponents for the art of sweeping. But I'm not so sure they'd be classified as defenders in modern sense of the word. No disrespect to Franz the defender in particular, but someone like him would probably be a deep lying playmaker of sorts if he was playing today and help dictate the game from midfield.

Franco could really do it all - despite his lack of physical stature he had an excellent leap, supreme tackling technique, genius level intuition and nose for the football, excellent man marking ability, great anticipation, decision making and positional awareness and exemplary technique on the ball. These are the nuances of total defensive play which he mastered and that helped compensate for his lack of prototypical height and overall athleticism levels. Plus he was an excellent leader for the hallowed Maldini, Baresi, Costacurta, Tassotti backline. It's insanely hard to find any chinks in his game apart from a subtle lack of pace which didn't really affect him that much with the style of play of that generation in Serie A.

He'd be ranked even higher in popular lists and probably considered the greatest by the masses had he scored the penalty in 1994. That one incident probably tarnished his public legacy a little and didn't do justice to his smashing defensive performance in the final.
 
Last edited:
Rozay said:
Just how good was he? I know he was obviously very good, but I can't recall much of him playing. When I was a bit younger, he seemed to be referred to as the standard in terms of centre-halves, but since then - I don't really hear many references to him anymore. I often hear Bobby Moore, Rio, Nesta or Maldini in conversations regarding defensive standards.

Where does Franco rank? I'm guessing @devilish or the Chief may be insightful here.
Click to expand...

He was tough, fierce but above all he was a born leader. It was like having a manager on the pitch. Franco could rally the troops, he was observant in spotting the weaknesses and when necessarily he could easily close the gaps himself. Hence why he was used as libero, which, back at the time, was the equivalent of the iron throne for defenders and he did that with AC Milan at age 17. He would have done the same with Italy if it wasn't for the more experienced and equally good Gaetano Scirea.

During his years at AC Milan the club kept producing/developing quality defenders. Maldini was the top of the bunch but other defenders such as Costacurta and Panucci owe him a great deal. Personally I don't think that he was as technically gifted as Rio was (let alone Paulo Maldini) but he compensated to that with strength, positioning and sheer leadership. In my opinion he's one of the very best defenders the world has ever seen and under his leadership AC Milan had the best defense football had ever witnessed.
 
Can't be compared to defenders now a days. Something he did that wouldn't even be a foul would be a red card today. Offside rule was different. The game was slower. The pitches were worse which made it easier to defend against dribblers.
 
Franco Baresi. Wow. Best Defender I've ever seen. I'll pair up with Jaap Stam and Maldini and Cafu as the all time best back 4. Am old enough to watch most of the AC Milan games from 1988-1993 on television. van Basten was the superstar, but it was Baresi who was the Captain who held the whole team together.and I recall Baresi was one of the pioneers of kicking the ball out so that an injured opponent could get treatment, a practice which has become customary.
 
Pexbo said:
I'm watching that video and thinking he would have struggled with the modern game. There's about 20 yellows, 10 reds, acres of space you just don't see these days and the forwards make Falcao look like Usain Bolt.
Bitesaplenty
Click to expand...

Not really. Back than they used to play with the libero (sweeper) which restricted the space strikers had further. I think that system was more suited for pacey/quality strikers than the present system. There again, we're talking about a time were you had the likes of Baggio, Van Basten, Vialli, Maradona etc all playing in the Serie A. Even the smaller sides could afford talent like Dunga, Zola, Hagi, Laudrup, Careca etc.

In fact the likes of Berkamp and Rush left/returned to England because they weren't good enough for the Serie A of the time.
 
Last edited:
Snow said:
Can't be compared to defenders now a days. Something he did that wouldn't even be a foul would be a red card today. Offside rule was different. The game was slower. The pitches were worse which made it easier to defend against dribblers.
Click to expand...

On the other hand there was more talent back than then there is now. There's been a regression in terms of talent all across the board (Italy, England, Germany, Argentina, Brazil, Holland etc)
 
Rozay said:
So yould say he was better than Rio/Nesta in their prime? Personally, I think Rio is the best centre-half I've ever seen play.
Click to expand...

Yes.

Rio is the best defender of his generation though. What a defender!!
 
Snow said:
Can't be compared to defenders now a days. Something he did that wouldn't even be a foul would be a red card today. Offside rule was different. The game was slower. The pitches were worse which made it easier to defend against dribblers.
Click to expand...

That old argument, are we really going to use that here with Baresi.. a guy who defended against the likes of Maradona, Romario, Batistuta?

Yeah I can really see him struggling against Benzema and Luis Suarez. He'd make Suarez his bitch.
 
devilish said:
On the other hand there was more talent back than then there is now. There's been a regression in terms of talent all across the board (Italy, England, Germany, Argentina, Brazil, Holland etc)
Click to expand...

I don't believe that. The sport has just changed, become more professional. Players need more than just talent to succeed nowadays.
 
Raees said:
Maldini doesn't come close to Baresi for me, the latter was a proper leader in defence.. the fulcrum of those great Italian and Milan backlines. As good as a left back/centre-back Maldini was, he wasn't a tour de force like Baresi.

Ferdinand and Nesta are not in his league either for me.

For me only someone like Beckenbauer can surpass him and even then as a pure centre back, I think Baresi is unrivalled in terms of his stature in the game. His exploits at both club level and international level mean he surpasses Moore too.

Mixture of an elite ball playing sweeper, rock hard defender, very athletic and incomparable leadership and organisational skills. You'll never see someone with all these components.
Click to expand...

Baresi was the best defender (leadership, positioning etc) while Maldini was the most complete defender modern football had ever seen.
 
devilish said:
On the other hand there was more talent back than then there is now. There's been a regression in terms of talent all across the board (Italy, England, Germany, Argentina, Brazil, Holland etc)
Click to expand...
There's also more attacking talent now. The number of average players that have tons of speed and can dribble. It's easier to defend when you have two teams that are more focused on not conceding than scoring.
 
Bloedrood said:
I don't believe that. The sport has just changed, become more professional. Players need more than just talent to succeed nowadays.
Click to expand...

We're talking about the 80s-90s mate and not the 1920s. Football had better players and managers back than then it has now. Also the Serie A was in an unprecedented situation were nearly every team (even the smallest) had world class players in it. The likes of Napoli and Brescia (the equivalent of Newcastle and Crystal Palace) could afford signing star players from Real and Barcelona.
 
Raees said:
That old argument, are we really going to use that here with Baresi.. a guy who defended against the likes of Maradona, Romario, Batistuta?

Yeah I can really see him struggling against Benzema and Luis Suarez. He'd make Suarez his bitch.
Click to expand...
Because an argument is used again and again means it's shit? Or is it just used because it's an obvious truth?

You can used it against Baresi as you can against any other player in that era.

Have you seen Baresi play in a side that wasn't extremely defensive?

How many times did he play against Romario? Once? Twice? Less than the current Ajax defense has played against Messi.

The game is just so different. Players are required to be at a peak physical form 24/7. Not even at semi-pro level can you get away with having a drink or be out of shape.
 
Snow said:
There's also more attacking talent now. The number of average players that have tons of speed and can dribble. It's easier to defend when you have two teams that are more focused on not conceding than scoring.
Click to expand...

There's only two great players now ie Ronaldo and Messi. The rest are nowhere near to the talent there was back then. I wouldn't swap the likes of Van Basten, Baggio or Romario with Ibra, Suarez or the white Pele etc.

Take England as an example. Do you think that the likes of Shearer and Sheringham would have a problem displacing Sturridge and Welbeck?
 
devilish said:
We're talking about the 80s-90s mate and not the 1920s. Football had better players and managers back than then it has now. Also the Serie A was in an unprecedented situation were nearly every team (even the smallest) had world class players in it. The likes of Napoli and Brescia (the equivalent of Newcastle and Crystal Palace) could afford signing star players from Real and Barcelona.
Click to expand...
Are you sure they could afford it? How are the clubs doing now financially? For how long have the financial stability in Italian football been non-existent? Maradona came at a discount because of a massive baggage that came with him and Guardiola was finished. Leicester has Cambiasso. Middlesbrough had Ravanelli and Barnet got Davids.
 
Snow said:
Because an argument is used again and again means it's shit? Or is it just used because it's an obvious truth?

You can used it against Baresi as you can against any other player in that era.

Have you seen Baresi play in a side that wasn't extremely defensive?

How many times did he play against Romario? Once? Twice? Less than the current Ajax defense has played against Messi.

The game is just so different. Players are required to be at a peak physical form 24/7. Not even at semi-pro level can you get away with having a drink or be out of shape.
Click to expand...

Not even worth responding to.

If it was a player from pre war football I could understand it and engage in debate with you but a player from the late 80's/early 90's.. feck me senseless.

When guys like Mats Hummels who is slow as feck is rated amongst the worlds best defenders and guys like Ramos/Pepe/Pique are the cream of the crop, you have the audacity to question the standard of players of Serie A in that era.

Zidane is another complete non athlete who pissed on modern day football through his sheer ability.

Baresi was hardly a limited player in a physical sense, he was nippy for a centre back, great endurance, great leap.. so physically he was very sound for a centre-back. More equipped than a Vidic to deal with someone like Torres (FFS he dealt with Romario!!) and in addition to that he had surpreme positioning and leadership skills.

This is a non debate.

Oh and Rooney doesn't drink does he?
 
My only real memory of him was the final in '94. Amazing performance and he seemed to be able to 'smell danger' better than anyone.
 
devilish said:
There's only two great players now ie Ronaldo and Messi. The rest are nowhere near to the talent there was back then. I wouldn't swap the likes of Van Basten, Baggio or Romario with Ibra, Suarez or the white Pele etc.

Take England as an example. Do you think that the likes of Shearer and Sheringham would have a problem displacing Sturridge and Welbeck?
Click to expand...
Take England as an example? How about Bosnia? Or Iceland? Or Portugal? Or Germany?

Van Basten, had he been a player now, would probably not have his career finished at age 28-29 because the physios and doctors have become a lot better. Messi wouldn't have been a player in the 90's.

Baggio and Romario, the two best attackers in that era no? Why are comparing them to Suarez and Ibrahimovic and not Ronaldo and Messi? I'm assuming since you mentioned those three together that you're referring to the post-90 era where Maradona was done so no need to bring him into those three. Otherwise Maldini and Rio are of the same era.

You just can't appreciate what's in front of you. Of course the football is better now and the players are better. They've got better training, there's more competition, the scouting system is better so basically no one is lost in the cracks. There's also a lot more pressure from fans because of how football is now televised. There is more pressure to play pretty football. You think Chelsea in 1990 would be criticized for winning the league? People are criticizing Chelsea, the team that is comfortably beating the league, because they are dull. No way Sacchi had to hear that.
 
Snow said:
Are you sure they could afford it? How are the clubs doing now financially? For how long have the financial stability in Italian football been non-existent? Maradona came at a discount because of a massive baggage that came with him and Guardiola was finished. Leicester has Cambiasso. Middlesbrough had Ravanelli and Barnet got Davids.
Click to expand...

Maradona's 'baggage' started building up at Napoli were was considered as god. He left Barcelona because they treated him like shit. Hagi moved in Italy at age 28, Careca at age 27, Dunga at age 24, Laudrup at age 23. All world class players at their prime, some coming from top clubs, who preferred playing with smaller Serie A clubs because IT WAS THE PLACE WERE THE MONEY WAS. I remember that time quite vividly ie players who would rather sit on the bench at Parma (Blomqvist) or play for Fiorentina (Batistuta) than play with us because we couldn't afford their salaries!
 
devilish said:
We're talking about the 80s-90s mate and not the 1920s. Football had better players and managers back than then it has now. Also the Serie A was in an unprecedented situation were nearly every team (even the smallest) had world class players in it. The likes of Napoli and Brescia (the equivalent of Newcastle and Crystal Palace) could afford signing star players from Real and Barcelona.
Click to expand...

I know when you were talking about, still don't agree. Yes teams had world class players, but usually just a few. I think it might only seem like there was more talent because more teams from different leagues were competitive. That's not because those teams were as professional as today's top teams, the opposite is true. Today's top teams perform at a completely different level, it's simply harder for talent to reach the top. But the talent is still there.
 
Raees said:
Not even worth responding to.

If it was a player from pre war football I could understand it and engage in debate with you but a player from the late 80's/early 90's.. feck me senseless.

When guys like Mats Hummels who is slow as feck is rated amongst the worlds best defenders and guys like Ramos/Pepe/Pique are the cream of the crop, you have the audacity to question the standard of players of Serie A in that era.

Zidane is another complete non athlete who pissed on modern day football through his sheer ability.

Baresi was hardly a limited player in a physical sense, he was nippy for a centre back, great endurance, great leap.. so physically he was very sound for a centre-back. More equipped than a Vidic to deal with someone like Torres (FFS he dealt with Romario!!) and in addition to that he had surpreme positioning and leadership skills.

This is a non debate.

Oh and Rooney doesn't drink does he?
Click to expand...
I'm questioning the comparison. There are too many variables to compare the two. I don't compare Messi to Maradona or Pele either.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.