Forget the result, why are we so rubbish at football?

DutchSerb said:
Because we have a defense with no chemistry, a midfield with no creativity and an attack with no confidence or supply of proper balls from said midfield. The thing that irks me the most about us is that we don't seem to have the ability to move on quickly from certain players that don't match the clubs ambition/standards, to the point where we need to ask ourselves right now what our standards really are. People can say a lot about Chelsea, but they don't have problems with this. Lukaku? Take your loss. Werner? Moving on. But we still stick to Rashford, Shaw, Maguire. It's so depressing.
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This. This. 1000 times This.

How are we still debating the merits of Scott fecking McTominay. . .
 
Just need to be coached better. On that path hopefully but not enough time yet. Embarrassing to suggest we don't have the players to not get thrashed at home by Brighton
 
Too many of our players have had a poor Football education. Most of our issues are basic but based on repetition, for example controlling the ball toward the proper side, you are not supposed to control it in a way that creates a 50-50 with the closest opponent and yet half our players do it routinely, they routinely cover the wrong zone not understanding standard zonal marking which is worry when the managers likely use hybrid markings. Several of our players are flat footed when they receive a ball which make them vulnerable to challenges or any unexpected event. An other thing, thata drives me crazy on lineouts at least a couple of our players are marking no zone and no player, we seldomly put the receiver under pressure because he is often not marked.

All of that is based on repetition, it's not innate. Some players may have complained about LVG long video sessions and his hands on approach on the training ground but at the time it helped many of them even if our attacking game was dull, the rest was very sound.
 
X number of years with outdated coaching and no discernable style of play. Pick 11 players and it is all up to them. At least ETH, based on how Ajax played, seems to have some idea. Coaching this to a team of players who are used to do what they want will take time. It is also the tiny issue of not having many players that are suited to modern football.
 
Leg-End said:
No offense but that's PSG who are hardly lacking in quality and have a bottomless pit of money. United realistically need to rotate out a whole new 11 over the next 2-3 years if they are interested in actually winning anything.

Two central midfielders of starting quality could turn this team around so quickly, there is just no excuse for dicking about like we have been for 5-6 years. ETH isn't a mug, I refuse to believe another United manager won't fix the area any fan knows needs fixing.
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This isnt a excuse. We also have lots of money. Are you suggesting there aren't value signings to be made or there aren't any improvements out in the market on most of the players that started today?


You say 2 to 3 years but we don't have to wait that long for a full XI if we are serious. We could easily do 2 fullbacks, 2 midfielders and 2 attackers in one window which should have been the natural response to our worst ever PL season anyway. It's not about the manager any more. The manager is just the latest person that will be on the chopping block, the longer we keep ignoring the mess we are in.
 
We have one of the least athletic teams in Europe. The few players that are athletic aren't very good. Rangnick identified it right away.

Like it or not, pace and power are two of the most important attributes in football. Even modern, technically minded managers like Pep and Klopp have made that very clear.

FBs
Dalot - poor agility for a full-back
Shaw - huge stamina and fitness issues
Bissaka - woeful footballer
Malacia - tiny

CBs
Maguire - slow, zero agility
Lindelof - average pace, weak
Varane - fitness issues, clearly lost pace
Lisandro - undersized, slow

CMs
Van De Beek - less athletic than Mata, slow, weak
Bruno - slow, weak
Eriksen - slow, weak
Garner - slow, weak
Fred - not very good
McT - woeful lack of agility

FWs
Ronaldo - clearly lost pace and agility
Martial - doesn't care, mental midget
Rashford - diaster of a player, mental midget
Sancho - below average pace for his position, weak
Elanga - weak, poor footballer

There's only really Fred, Rashford, Martial and Bissaka that you could argue are physically adept in any way - and the latter three are some of the worst players in the squad.
 
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Canagel said:
It's possible if you have the right structure and scouting. PSG have Campos and have already bought like 5 or 6 players. Ralf was ready to help us build a great squad but we binned him off because its easier to think our problems can be fixed with one change. This club is only interested in short term fixes.
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At the moment PSG brought 4 new players and only one of them is a starter.
 
Canagel said:
This isnt a excuse. We also have lots of money. Are you suggesting there aren't value signings to be made or there aren't any improvements out in the market on most of the players that started today?


You say 2 to 3 years but we don't have to wait that long for a full XI if we are serious. We could easily do 2 fullbacks, 2 midfielders and 2 attackers in one window which should have been the natural response to our worst ever PL season anyway. It's not about the manager any more. The manager is just the latest person that will be on the chopping block, the longer we keep ignoring the mess we are in.
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We should have lots of money but we are a business, not a plaything. PSG operate in a league they can dominate easily and again have a squad that is already stacked. United isn’t a comparison, we are lacking quality in almost every single area of the team but if you think we can just buy 11 new players of first team quality in a window it’s simply not realistic, it’s not FIFA 22.

A start would be 3-4 in key areas and I’m not including Martinez in that.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
Just need to be coached better. On that path hopefully but not enough time yet. Embarrassing to suggest we don't have the players to not get thrashed at home by Brighton
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If it were only that simple. EtH will improve us massively & I agree we should be good enough to be beat Brighton but EtH isn’t a magician, he isn’t coaching the likes of McFred into a passing midfield.

Coaching + better recruitment is key.
 
DDG - His style of goalkeeping is only suited to mid level clubs. Want to be on the front foot? You need more than a shot stopper in goal.

Defence - Though I believe it improves with a sweeper keeper, look at it. Dalot? Maguire? Shaw? All have major flaws in their game.

Midfield - We haven't had a functional midfield for over a decade, no matter who is in there. SAF couldn't figure it out and neither can anyone since. McFred, Bruno aren't technically good enough to be in an elite team. Squad players yes, first teamers? No.

Attack - Probably one of the weakest attacks we've had in the EPL. Rashford is woeful, Ronaldo is 37 and doesn't want to be at the club, Martial is injury prone and hasn't had a good season for a couple seasons now. Then there's Sancho, who isn't someone who can carry an attack, he's a player you integrate into a functioning team.

The squad is terrible, the club is 10-15 years behind the other top clubs, the stadium needs a revamp. The club has been run into the ground. There's a few more tough years coming up.

On the plus side though!

No, nothing.
 
If the club transfer listed every player, who do the top clubs clamour for? Who do they fight over?
 
This current bunch is rotten because most of them are being shoehorned into a system they were not signed to play in. They would not a ton more match practice to even start gelling well together as an effective unit and produce results consistently. That or we get in players that fit the system. But that would take more than two more transfer windows, as our current players are very hard to move on.
 
space said:
2016/17– Fellaini, Herrera
2017/18– Matic, Pogba
2018/19– Pereira, Fred
2019/20– McTominay, Pogba
2020/21– McTominay, Pogba
2021/22– McTominay, Fred
2022/23– McTominay, Fred
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I miss the Fellaini Herrera midfield, says it all. Both would probably walk into this side now.
 
I think it’s worrying ten Hag started McFred. Was really hoping to see Eriksen deep in midfield. It happened in the second half and we looked better (only just). People need to realise half that squad cannot deal with the pressure of playing for United.

Half our team cannot pass. De Gea, Maguire, Fred, McTominay, Rashford, Bruno give away the ball so much. That’s 6 out of 11 starting who struggle to pass. And we wonder why the team looks dysfunctional.
 
McFred gets some stick but the honest truth is they are limited players and actually playing not much below their level. Center midfield is so much more difficult to play. The likes of Sancho and Rashford are meant to be the stars that get bums off seats. Those 2 are far more disappointing for me.

I really don't know where we go from here, everyone today looked like they need replaced. Everyone.
 
Canagel said:
Players aren't good enough. It's not that difficult.
Ralf told us about these players and we ignored him.
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Well said.
Whats the saying 'as you sow so shall you reap'. Play shit players...
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
If it were only that simple. EtH will improve us massively & I agree we should be good enough to be beat Brighton but EtH isn’t a magician, he isn’t coaching the likes of McFred into a passing midfield.

Coaching + better recruitment is key.
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We can recruit better but recruitment can't be an excuse for today or for a 7th place finish
 
When we have so many players who struggle when pressed, any PL team worth their salt will make us look terrible.
 
People talking about quality but its not only that, there is a reason why huge majority of new signings last 10 years dropped in quality and level after few months of getting here. Rot was set and never was removed, its like adding buckets of hot water into a ice cold pool.

What we need is reset of culture a new one and we wont achieve that even if we keep upgrading squad without removing motherfeckers, how the feck majority survived after last season i dont know and no, those who wanted to leave on free cant be counted as clearing because even in their case we wanted to keep them by offering new contracts just they refused it.
 
2008 is the last season where we consistently played great football. 14 years of zombie passing and zombie movement. I've said it before and I repeat, the club lacks ambition. No other top club would tolerate it. If the owners wanted to win trophies they'd ensure wholesale changes were made to this squad. Half of it needs binning.
 
Martial'sEmergingSmile said:
We have one of the least athletic teams in Europe. The few players that are athletic aren't very good. Rangnick identified it right away.

Like it or not, pace and power are two of the most important attributes in football. Even modern, technically minded managers like Pep and Klopp have made that very clear.

FBs
Dalot - poor agility for a full-back
Shaw - huge stamina and fitness issues
Bissaka - woeful footballer
Malacia - tiny

There's only really Fred, Rashford, Martial and Bissaka that you could argue are physically adept in any way - and the latter three are some of the worst players in the squad.
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Harsh on Malacia- I haven't seen enough of him but if he's as tenacious and aggressive as say Evra or even Rafael then his size won't be a problem. Similarly, Martinez's size doesn't concern me, the pace is more of a potential concern.

Overall I agree though. It's just such a flat, 'UNdynamic' team for the most part. Ralf pretty much called it from the get go (i still think he overrated our technique though)
 
We needed to freshen up the squad massively this summer. Rangnick was pushing for that level of change but had undermined his influence after failing miserably as manager.

Ten Hag seemingly didn’t agree with that assessment on the current squad and didn’t see the need to have Rangnick’s input. Murtough and the club have allowed that to fly and indulged Ten Hag’s pursuit of De Jong rather than seeking other alternatives.

I think Ten Hag was confident that he could improve on last season with the current group of players and that he could be patient chasing his ideal players. He may well find that other clubs around us haven’t stood still whilst we have been left depleted by departures and not dealt with the inevitable Ronaldo situation. He may suddenly be wishing that we had been a lot more active in the market when he sees how some of this current squad measure up week in and week out against all the other teams in this league (not just those at the top).

The buck stops with Murtough for me. He should have really driven change in the squad this summer having seen what transpired last season.
 
Man United must have become the definition for shit football across the globe, like "This team plays shit football, reminds me of Man United" or something like that. Suits the Urban dictionary website.
 
Overall I'd say you lack a clear vision. Doesn't matter if you had gone with the Mourinho-line, Rangnick-style or ten Hag-route - you probably need to commit. That way you'll get a clear identity. I can't say I know how you want to play. And you haven't assembled a squad according to one managers grand plan but 5 different ones.

I'm sure many of your players would do well in a different setting. I.e. Smalling, Lingard, Lukaku, Ashley Young, Daley Blind.

A modern Ferguson-team would suit you. Pace down the flanks, proper CF, rather direct cm's with some bite but also able to arrive late in the box. Goretzka would be perfect in the EPL and for Utd (but you can't have him).

Unfortunately for you none of the suggestions above is fulfilled in your current squad...
 
Red Pumpkin said:
Overall I'd say you lack a clear vision. Doesn't matter if you had gone with the Mourinho-line, Rangnick-style or ten Hag-route - you probably need to commit. That way you'll get a clear identity. I can't say I know how you want to play. And you haven't assembled a squad according to one managers grand plan but 5 different ones.

I'm sure many of your players would do well in a different setting. I.e. Smalling, Lingard, Lukaku, Ashley Young, Daley Blind.

A modern Ferguson-team would suit you. Pace down the flanks, proper CF, rather direct cm's with some bite but also able to arrive late in the box. Goretzka would be perfect in the EPL and for Utd (but you can't have him).

Unfortunately for you none of the suggestions above is fulfilled in your current squad...
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You are absolutely right in the assessment. ETH may turn out to be a good coach and criticism at this point is baseless. Comparison to klopp and pep is also uncalled for as there is a massive gulf. When Klopp and Guardiola came in they were already world class coaches.
ETH may fail to live upto expectations but the time to judge is not now. He will need time and then it will be his ability to show progress. One of the major things pep and klopp had was they brought players in and slowly transformed their teams and continue to evolve. Can ETH adapt to the league, can he coach current team to perform better as a unit? If he is not flexible to recruit players and only wants dutch style players or FDJ then it’s not a good sign. If he cannot tweak his system to suit the squad then I fear more teams will find weakness in the tactical plays over time. That said he has given some identity to the style of play. He is not having players who can implement his ideas.
 
No mettle. World beaters in pre-season friendlies. Finished second in the league playing in empty stadiums during the covid lockdown. Maguire as captain. Explains a lot.
 
In football, you have 11 starters. On a good day, United is starting a team that includes De Gea, Dalot, Fred, and McTominay. None of them deserve to play modern football. We literally start every match with roughly 36.3% of our squad already being Championship-level.

Then factor in a new system, an aging striker, no press, only one wingside being decent at any given time, no midfield to transition the ball either way, and no keeper who can build from the back or play a high line. If Bruno is having an off match, forget about it all. We need signings, and lots of them
 
2-0 down, 1-2 down and we play like we are 10-0 up.

Maguire is the worst at receiving the ball and wasting what feels like 10 minutes deciding what to do with it. This rubs off on the players.

Maguire should be injecting urgency into the play
 
Poor players who were supposed to be replaced. Our recruitment team is one of the worst ones in PL. We don't have targets. We can't negotiate. We have no idea what to do. So we play with below average players in all positions
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Poor players who were supposed to be replaced. Our recruitment team is one of the worst ones in PL. We don't have targets. We can't negotiate. We have no idea what to do. So we play with below average players in all positions
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The football people at the club don't have an eye to spot a good footballer. They still believe that this squad is good enough for top 4.
 
We are rubbish at football because we keep getting bad results
We keep getting bad results because we are rubbish at football
When the situation is 'does egg or chicken comes first?' kind of stuff, the way to solve it is to sell most of the squad and start from scratch (dinosaurs) then let them evolve into chickens so you don't have to worry about the never ending question
 
What really annoys me is how crap we start games. Always start of slow in the first halve and it takes us until we’re a goal down to start playing… second halve we always wake up but by then it’s to late as we’ve already conceded 2 in the first halve.
 
I'm not saying McTominay and Fred are the only two problematic players in our side and replacing them will make us title contenders but as a start I would like to see how the team performs if we fix what has now been the most glaring problem with the side for at least three or four years. It isn't going to be possible to play any style of football other than counter-attacking effectively when our deep-lying midfield pairing lack the technical proficiency and game awareness to control a match.
 
Canagel said:
Players aren't good enough. It's not that difficult.
Ralf told us about these players and we ignored him.
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Obviously!
Yagami said:
100%

We can't pass through teams because once our players receive it under pressure, they fail to shield it, and we have no one who can open a team up by dribbling past a player or two. It's a massive hindrance.
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De Jong type of player.

Leftback99 said:
It's not just on the ball. We have next to zero physicality and aggression in the team. The likes of Rashford, Sancho and Bruno barely challenge for anything, especially in the air. Then you have the likes of Dalot and McTominay who are Championship level players.

Nothing new, the squad simply isn't good enough and no manager will fix that without replacing them with quality.
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Next to zero is maybe an overreaction but certainly not enough to compete against physically organized teams.

Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
1) Body position of our players.
2) Passing to the wrong side of the body, behind them when advancing up the pitch.
3) Zone of the pitch players occupy, they don't vacate that area and when they do, they it's chaos.
4) Lack of technique when passing, just lazy, lacks zip, angle and spin is wrong.
5) Passing angles are too flat/horizontal and played to slow, instantly triggering the other teams press. Verticality of our passing is worst in the league.
6) We never move towards the ball when a pass comes into a player, we wait for it to arrive, allowing teams half a second to set.
7) Touch is really bad combined with the ball being received at the wrong angle.
8) We are always square on to players with the ball - you never should be at amateur level yet at pro level, here we are.
9) No off the ball movement. And when there is the lack of passing vision and technique means we don't make the pass.
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100% spot on!

Players like Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw, McTominay and Fred make the above errors on a regular basis. Watch us closely and it’s obvious why we’re so poor in advancing from our own half and keeping ball possession.
 
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