Footballers getting political

Players should be allowed to have a voice, even if their voice says things we don't agree with. To silence them would be ultimately wrong. Plus if they say something questionable they can be challenged and you can have an idea what type of person they are. Better knowing peoples views (especially if they are extreme) than not knowing them.

I guess the question, then, is what constitutes silencing them? The specter of sanction from a club or league? Or does it need to entail government action? Not many had a problem when Toulouse chose to exclude Muslim players from a match in which they declined to participate in speech advocating against homophobia and for LGBT rights and acceptance. Would this constitute silencing?

At the time, I think the thinking, for some at least, was that these players worked for private organizations/Leagues and should abide by their rules and values if they wish to continue participating as employees. Otherwise, they can go play elsewhere in a locale that more closely aligns with their values, and likely for less money. In this instance, the players were declining speech (initially), rather than actively speaking out, if that distinction even matters.
 
It's funny when they discuss the statements of Zinchenko, who fled to Russia in May 2014:D
 
They're not free though, they're employee and as such needs to abide by company rules.

Just like you just don't see McD employee waving political gesture.

I would fire anyone of my employee that display political stance, regardless of what.
Unless you have that forbidden in their employment contracts I suspect you'd be bankrupt pretty quickly
 
Unless you have that forbidden in their employment contracts I suspect you'd be bankrupt pretty quickly

Having one member waving an extremist poster who's jailed for Bali Bombing would bankrupt me even faster.

Or maybe having a cashier that called the customer infidels. Because it's how its written in their religion.

See where this leads.
 
Off the top of my head, Neymar, Thiago Silva, Lucas Moura, and several others like Ronaldinho, Kaká, Rivaldo, Cafu were all very vocal supporters of Jair Bolsonaro here in South America, and that's some straight up far far right fascist shite
 
It is weird, clubs and national teams pick and choose when they would allow their players to display political messages or not. I actually commend Arsenal for asking Zinchenko to delete his pro-Israel post, not because I don't agree with it, but rather because atleast they are consistent with this topic since they've asked Elneny to delete pictures pro-Palestine. The EPL and FA have generally maintained a neutral stand throughout this conflict, so atleast they are consistent there.



This type of crap infuriates me. The Bundesliga just announced that every club should hold a minutes silence "To commemorate the victims after the terrible events in Israel, " (not Palestine, but only Israel) and I expect Mainz to do the same, but then they discipline a player for showing support for Palestine. This hypocrisy is embarassing. Mazaroui is being called by Bayern and will likely be disciplined himself for his post too. I really really hope he, and others who support Palestine, protest the minutes silence. Wouldn't say by making noise or booing since it would be too disrespectful to the innocent dead, but rather by being off the pitch when it is taking place, and also showing support if they score a goal.
 
This type of crap infuriates me. The Bundesliga just announced that every club should hold a minutes silence "To commemorate the victims after the terrible events in Israel, " (not Palestine, but only Israel) and I expect Mainz to do the same, but then they discipline a player for showing support for Palestine. This hypocrisy is embarassing. Mazaroui is being called by Bayern and will likely be disciplined himself for his post too. I really really hope he, and others who support Palestine, protest the minutes silence. Wouldn't say by making noise or booing since it would be too disrespectful to the innocent dead, but rather by being off the pitch when it is taking place, and also showing support if they score a goal.

The terrorist attack by Hamas on the Israeli civilian population and the devastating escalation in the Middle East conflict are also causing deep consternation in German football.

https://www.dfb.de/news/detail/dfb-und-dfl-gemeinsames-zeichen-fuer-den-frieden-255732/

El Ghazi ended his post with "from the river to the sea", which as far as I know can get you in trouble with the law, which is usually a pretty normal reason for clubs to suspend players.

Mazraoui posted " God, help our oppressed brothers in Palestine to achieve victory. ", since everyone is happy to remind us that Israel's war is actually with Hamas and not the Palestinian people, this is at least an unfortunate ambiguity.
 
Off the top of my head, Neymar, Thiago Silva, Lucas Moura, and several others like Ronaldinho, Kaká, Rivaldo, Cafu were all very vocal supporters of Jair Bolsonaro here in South America, and that's some straight up far far right fascist shite

Gabriel Jesus, too.
 
What do we think? I don't mind at all. They're grown ups, I'm a grown up.

Zinchenko has today posted on his Instagram a message saying "I stand with Israel" and since then it's apparently been taken down an his Insta is currently set to private.

If that's what he thinks, should he keep his mouth shut to make his club happy?

Footballers have the same right to participate in politics as any other citizen. End of story, as far as I'm concerned.
 
Off the top of my head, Neymar, Thiago Silva, Lucas Moura, and several others like Ronaldinho, Kaká, Rivaldo, Cafu were all very vocal supporters of Jair Bolsonaro here in South America, and that's some straight up far far right fascist shite

I listened to Tim Vickery on a podcast once explain how the military used to promote football as a way of building public support and since then Brazilian football has always been very right wing which surprised me. Socrates was a major exception apparently.



Does anyone even know what he said?

Klopp gonna personally stop the israel-palestine feud because it upsets his star player. Expecting both countries to send an apology to Liverpool.

Is there any end to what the anti-Liverpool conspirators will do to stop their title charge?
 
Footballers have the same right to participate in politics as any other citizen. End of story, as far as I'm concerned.
Depends on what their contract regarding usage of social media entails.

Retired footballers? Couldn't care less. Hell, George Weah is currently the Liberian president.
 
Does anyone even know what he said?

„Atal is suspected of sharing a video from a Palestinian preacher on Instagram, purportedly calling for violence against Jewish people. He has since deleted the message.“

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/sports/2023/10/18/muslim-footballers-european-clubs-israel-gaza-war

El Ghazi had shared another post that said amongst others „from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free“. This implies that Palestine should extend from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, essentially denying Israel's right to exist.
 
Klopp gonna personally stop the israel-palestine feud because it upsets his star player. Expecting both countries to send an apology to Liverpool.
You know people are actually dying out there in their homes. Stay safe where you are and use it to take digs at Liverpool. Very classy indeed.
 
You know people are actually dying out there in their homes. Stay safe where you are and use it to take digs at Liverpool. Very classy indeed.
Edit: gave away too much personal info when not thinking clearly.
 
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And Firmino, I think.

Richarlison is the only brazilian top level footballer I've seen who seems to support Lula.
Hmm, disappointing to hear that all those Brazilian footballers support authoritarian populism. Richarlison has gone up in my estimation.
 
How can Bayern be allowed to bully and intimidate a player into retracting and keeping his support for Palestine quiet while they in the same statement publicly state their support for the murder of little children?

 
The terrorist attack by Hamas on the Israeli civilian population and the devastating escalation in the Middle East conflict are also causing deep consternation in German football.

https://www.dfb.de/news/detail/dfb-und-dfl-gemeinsames-zeichen-fuer-den-frieden-255732/

El Ghazi ended his post with "from the river to the sea", which as far as I know can get you in trouble with the law, which is usually a pretty normal reason for clubs to suspend players.

Mazraoui posted " God, help our oppressed brothers in Palestine to achieve victory. ", since everyone is happy to remind us that Israel's war is actually with Hamas and not the Palestinian people, this is at least an unfortunate ambiguity.

Palestine exists from the river to the sea. The River Jordan and the mediteranean sea.

If Israel can have 2 blue strips in their flag to represent that, Palestinian supporters can chant about geographical boundaries.
 
How can Bayern be allowed to bully and intimidate a player into retracting and keeping his support for Palestine quiet while they in the same statement publicly state their support for the murder of little children?



This divide is certainly going to bring the difficult questions about what clubs should and shouldn't dictate of players when it comes to politics and moral views.

I think it's even more difficult too because of how this situation is divided compared to Ukraine vs Russia or BLM or LGBTQ+ issues. On those examples you had rather large majorities in favour of one side whereas I feel there is more mixed reactions and opinions on Israel vs Palestine at ground level.

As always I think that players should be able to voice their opinion and then be called out on if if they're wrong or stupid but this feels more like a situation where the clubs are taking a hard line not because they're wrong or stupid but because they have their boot fully in one camp and they want that narrative to flow through everyone.
 
Palestine exists from the river to the sea. The River Jordan and the mediteranean sea.

If Israel can have 2 blue strips in their flag to represent that, Palestinian supporters can chant about geographical boundaries.

The law seems to have a different opinion about that slogan.
 
A lot of this discussion is mixing up two different things - where you stand on the brutal Hamas terrorist attack on Israel, and where you stand on the general Israeli-Palestinian issue. It is very possible to support the Palestinian cause but condemn the terrorist attacks. Just like it is possible to condemn the terrorist attacks, but also object to certain aspects of the Israeli response, even if you acknowledge a response is justified. It isn't - and shouldn't be - a binary this side or that side choice.
 
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How can Bayern be allowed to bully and intimidate a player into retracting and keeping his support for Palestine quiet while they in the same statement publicly state their support for the murder of little children?


Where did the club publicly support the murder of little children?
 
Silencing anyone in this war will never change anything. There are so much blood on both sides and there will never be anything even related to peace if people still get silenced.
 
Where did the club publicly support the murder of little children?

I’m sorry but in the context of this war, to put out a statement that says ‘we stand with Israel’ as it continues to bomb entire neighbourhoods into oblivion and the death toll of little children continues to rise while at the same time bullying the player into retracting his pro Palestine posts, it’s fairly clear where Bayern loyalties lie and what they think of the Palestinian population.
 
I’m sorry but in the context of this war, to put out a statement that says ‘we stand with Israel’ as it continues to bomb entire neighbourhoods into oblivion and the death toll of little children continues to rise while at the same time bullying the player into retracting his pro Palestine posts, it’s fairly clear where Bayern loyalties lie and what they think of the Palestinian population.
So they didn’t.
 
So they didn’t.

I mean you can choose to believe it isn’t what they’re doing, but that’s exactly what they’re doing and it’s disgusting.
 
I mean you can choose to believe it isn’t what they’re doing, but that’s exactly what they’re doing and it’s disgusting.
It’s not what they are doing and what you claimed they said isn’t what they said.
Otherwise you’re free to criticise the statement all you want. I’m highly critical of it myself. But what you wrote ain’t in there. And considering the emotions connected to the topic, it might be a more sensible approach to criticise people or institutions for what they actually do and say. Especially if the things they do and say, already provide enough room for criticism . That’s what’s pissing me off here. You don’t need to invent stuff like this. You can just stick to what’s actually been written in order to make your point.
Nuance is important right now. Very much. And at no point did Bayern support the murder of little children.
 
It’s not what they are doing and what you claimed they said isn’t what they said.
Otherwise you’re free to criticise the statement all you want. I’m highly critical of it myself. But what you wrote ain’t in there. And considering the emotions connected to the topic, it might be a more sensible approach to criticise people or institutions for what they actually do and say. Especially if the things they do and say, already provide enough room for criticism . That’s what’s pissing me off here. You don’t need to invent stuff like this. You can just stick to what’s actually been written in order to make your point.
Nuance is important right now. Very much. And at no point did Bayern support the murder of little children.

I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, generally speaking, but I’m sorry, if someone says ‘I stand with Hamas’ it’s fairly clear what they mean and it would not be unreasonable or unnuanced to say someone who says that is clearly stating their support for the murder of innocent people and little children. I’m applying the same standard to Israel here. So with respect, my friend, it’s clear to me what Bayern are saying and I find it utterly abhorrent.
 
I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, generally speaking, but I’m sorry, if someone says ‘I stand with Hamas’ it’s fairly clear what they mean and it would not be unreasonable or unnuanced to say someone who says that is clearly stating their support for the murder of innocent people and little children. I’m applying the same standard to Israel here. So with respect, my friend, it’s clear to me what Bayern are saying and I find it utterly abhorrent.
Then so be it. You are obviously free to get upset about statements never made. I just doubt that anything is gained in the process.
 
It is one of the sad things of this conflict (and probably the general world) in that people/companies feel like they have to be seen to be on one side or the other. Like Bayern's stance which is heavily Israel backed, when it shouldn't be a negative to go "Sympathies to the civilians of the Hamas massacre and sympathies to the civilians killed by Israel's bombing". That is not an insane stance to take.