For people with kids that are into football, do you still see them idolising players like back in the day? Posters on the wall, pretending to be their favourite player when they're kicking a ball around etc? I don't know enough people with kids that age to really know but it does sometimes feel like adulation in football is less kids dreaming of becoming the next superstar and more people in their 30s dreaming of an optimal rest defence, it's all a bit:
Football is boring and lacks real superstars
- Thread starter Scottynaldinho
- Start date
I'm not watching lots of EPL these days so no idea if that's true. What I agree with is that football has changed. Teams are much more organized these days and I kind of get when people say the game has become robotic but the clip you posted IMO is actually a pattern of play that was ahead of its time and typical for modern football. I don't watch lots of EPL football these days so can't tell how the average match is in England but at least over here and in the CL, I see many attacks like this. And there is also lots of variance in style. The clip you posted is, for instance, a typical Frankfurt goal for me where they try to find a striker to lay the ball off followed by a quick succession of vertical or diagonal passes.
I think what's putting most people off is the phases inbetween. Teams these days are much more control-oriented and there are less turnovers. But that doesn't mean that there are less spectacular plays, individually or collectively, because back in the day there was lots of "boring" stuff as well. But to be honest, I like slower games of a high quality as well with good passing sequences, intelligent players finding good solutions in pressing situations, etc. And there's much more of that now than it used to be.
The whole nostalgia bias is usually a poor argument because as someone who has two kids and is involved in youth coaching, the players these kids idolise seem to be players who retired before they were born. My 11 year olds favourite player is Ronaldinho, my 6 year olds is Maradona though he is also a big fan of Yamal but doesn't actively watch his videos as much as past players.
Kids I coach around the same age are still on the Messi v CR7 debate. Mbappe, Haaland, Vinicius barely get a mention.
That move wasn't ahead of its time, it's just that teams were MUCH worse in those times, far less organized, and so those moves were much much easier to pull off. Barcelona did that all the time too - then they ran into Milan, and the latter's modern pressing and organization made then look like their players could barely trap the ball
I've been a teacher for kids from the age of 8 to 16 year olds. And all the kids that have been into football have never mentioned any of todays "stars". It's always, Neymar, Messi, CR or the older superstars. Like Zidane, Gerrard etc. Depending on where the kids are from or who they support. But yeah, can't remember one kid mentioning Mbappe or Haaland or anyone like that.
Edit: I even live in Norway and yet can't remember seeing any kid looking up to Haaland as his "hero"
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I did wonder, which modern players would be the ones for kids to latch onto. Yamal maybe since he's so young, but it's hard now I'm getting to the age that players retire at to look at them and think who would kids find to be larger than life in that way. Even top players like Palmer, Vinicius, Musiala just seem like kids to me, compared to Rooney et al when I was younger, but that's got to be my own nostalgia goggles surely!
If you go back and watch matches from that era a few things immediately stick out like there being more space around the pitch, players having slightly more time on the ball, the pressing being more individualistic rather than organised and as others have pointed out the general tactical setup of teams being far less organised. The game is quicker, more organised and in general there is less space to play around in. Despite that there are still the odd player with flair such as Vinicius, Mbappe has a bit as well etc. However, take some of those teams from those eras and put them against some of the more organised teams that are around now and I imagine it wouldn't be that easy to reproduce that type of football. Part of the reason football is more cautious and focused on possession is because teams are far more organised and ready to capitalise on mistakes and the opposition being disorganised.
Feel like you just described a chess match here... which really is worth paying £100 a ticket to watch(even more for people travelling). I.e. football has become boring, at least at the top level.
It is getting like a chess match, that's because the primary goal of a match is to win and if others are upping their tactical game then you have to as well. To entertain comes after. If you can do both great.
Oh I know that.. don't worry. I'm just pointing out the obvious here.
As someone who hates losing, I'd also do everything it takes to win and as a MU fan, I'd be more happy if we won a match no matter how, rather than losing by playing "fun football". But that's just me being a hypocrite here. Still doesn't change the fact that football has becoming boring.
What I'd say is how come the teams we play aren't approaching or performing like that? How come the majority of the time their football is slow and methodical?
Are we saying it's because this United team is so incredibly well organised and drilled?
There can't be less space on a football pitch. The pitch is the same size. Same number of players. So the space is the same.
Where the space is has changed I think.
I'm constantly wondering while a team passes round the back for 10 mins, why aren't they popping a ball over the top into that massive space behind the defence.
Like Madrid did to City.
Because ->
It is better drilled and organized than 99% of PL teams from the 90s, at least when it comes to the first line of pressing. Hence teams need to be more methodical to get past it. Once they do they can attack quickly at pace in the open field
Also, you may be crap but you're still United - most teams are better off not taking big risks against you
There is less usable space most of the time
A) offside traps
B) you need really fast attackers
C) City in particular are a disaster.
Most of the time if a team is giving you the option of playing a long ball over the top, they're expecting it and not in fact giving you that space
We don't have to go back to the 90's. Go back 10 years. This United team isn't better defensively than Prem teams back then. We've got one midfielder who can run. Zirkzee as a 10. Bruno is constantly slated for his haphazard pressing. We've had Rashford and Sancho in the team. Likes of Maguire and Lindelof at the back.
The idea this team is so good defensively that our opponents have no choice but to play slow methodical football is very far fetched.
There might be one or two more but really the only United opponent I've found entertaining this season is Southampton. Maybe Spurs first half at OT.
It's a chicken and egg thing. You believe the football is slow because teams are so good at pressing.
I'd say it's the other way around. The ridiculous recycling of the ball around the back has made it easy for teams to press and be organised.
And City are currently 4th in the Prem. They're not a disaster.
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I've mentioned that match a couple of times but has been conveniently ignored. We had an absolutely magnificent and chaotic match with 8 goals (it could have easily been 12) between two European giants which featured amazing performances by several world class and super exciting players like Yamal and Pedri barely 18 hours ago. But yeah, football is boring and lacks real superstars.
Don’t try. People love their nostalgia.
On the other hand, the build up phase is equally organized. Many teams look for the line breaking pass from either the LCB or RCB to the striker who then lays it off and they synchronize the runs of the different players to open these lanes up intentionally. Methodology over creativity in chaos. At least in the first two thirds of the pitch, the third is usually the area in which individual geniuses can express themselves.
Diniz was supposed to be the savior but you all laughed at his madness. And here we are.
I don't want you to worry but I believe you are raising party demons.
It's not being ignored. It's just the discussion is mainly around the Prem.
And I don't think anybody is saying there's never a good game.
It's not so good that they have no other choice. It's good enough they can't play through it easily, and they're better off not taking big risks.
You're not wrong that teams play more methodical by choice. In part it's true. They do if because it's more conducive to winning games
Football isn't slow though. It's the fastest it's been in the 21st century. It's still faster than the 90s too, if you look outside the PL - who, need I remind you, outside of United was a dumpster fire back in those days, precisely because almost nobody could defend to save their lives
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I find with Football, your view on how 'exciting' it is in general largely depends on how your team is doing. Liverpool fans at the moment are going to be finding it all very exciting, watching their own team and other games that can have an impact. When I watch Ireland, I always find it more exciting than club football, and that is saying something with a lot of the dross we have played over the years. There are definitely more goals now than 20+ years ago, more attacking play, lets not forget the 1-0 to the Arsenal league wins, the Leeds United title, Chelsea winning the league with only 15 goals conceded. I do miss the tough tackling and more physical stuff that was allowed, but overall, I find it strange that people would consider the current game more boring than previous decades.
the main thing that kills enjoyment for me is the sheer insistence of back passes. Players never turn and drive forward anymore. Any foray forward has been drilled out of them and they just turn back and "recycle" the ball. Lose count of how many times a player just plays a one time pass back when there is acres of space in front of them. Im not saying everyone should just bomb forward but for fecks sake just go forward at same point.
Also lost a lot of interest over the years. Not watched a CL game for many years unless it's United.
I only really like to watch United. So football is becoming a redemption trip this days. And there is no one really enjoyable to watch in this team.
And I have become less and less difficult the last decade.
I’ll do anything to have a Nani in this team nowdays while he was frustrating me when he was playing for us.
And I have become less and less difficult the last decade.
I’ll do anything to have a Nani in this team nowdays while he was frustrating me when he was playing for us.
That's not what the title or the OP say though.