Flooding hits communities across northern England: Leeds city centre inundated.

Its weird because I never personally see floods as too big a deal. simply because when growing up as a child my parents owned/ran a pub located next to the river Severn, and we got flooded most every year. To me as a child it was a lot of fun - having to get in our little speedboat to take us to where the cars were parked (on the higher ground)... it was easy enough to tell when the water was rising and make preparations. Often made it onto local and even national news - I had my picture in a paper getting the boat to school in the morning :D

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=lower+lode+inn+flood&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=955&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiSkZrgxIPKAhVFbxQKHQcQAwgQ_AUIBygC#imgrc=vNVmDMk7WDtK2M:
It's one thing living in a river bank pub designed for the close proximity of the water table and frequent flooding, I'd imagine solid foundations, stone floors electric wiring and powerpoints kept above mid wall level and fed through ceiling wiring rather than underfloor etc. Where you can see the river and know in advance that the water is rising allowing you to move valuables upstairs and where you have the luxury of higher ground to park the car on and a speedboat to get back to it. Relatively clean river water forming the majority of the flood and subsiding rapidly when the surge passes.

When it's a domestic home mortgaged to the hilt that has no history of flooding, low level wiring, wooden floors, soft furnishings, wallpaper, plasterboard etc and the flooding is caused because some numpty raises or lowers a barrier miles away causing the water level to rise rapidly and flood in not just from the river but from overloaded sewers and fill the house for days or weeks ruining everything while your car drifts away outside and your insurance company, and every other one, refuses to ever insure you again and your home becomes an unsellable millstone around your neck for the rest of your working life then I'd imagine it's less fun even if you are an aquatic mammal.

I've thankfully not personally experienced it, probably because as a Civil Engineer specialised in soil and drainage the quaint home by the river or duck pond has always scared me off knowing the potential risks, but I have seen way more than enough of it in Kent in neighbouring towns with friends and family unlucky enough to have their dream homes turned into nightmares by entirely preventable floods caused by decades of poor planning, underfunding and governmental mismanagement. I've lived and worked in areas with far, far higher rainfall than the UK and having recently returned am horrified at how far things here have slid and how little the Environment Agency and the likes actually do other than panicked knee jerk reactions and PR face saving exercises in the aftermath of every annual flood season.
 
Cumbria's still a great place to live though.
Anyway, rugby league, so on the coast, somewhere Barrow way? And are you really Cumbria, or 'Lancashire over the water'?

Sorry just seen this, Yeah i'm Cumbria, Whitehaven to be precise which has been lucky enough to avoid the mass flooding, but my friends in Carlisle and Keswick have had a real bad time of things.
 
@Bury Red I completely agree mate - I am not trying to belittle what the victims here are going through, merely just that for me, the concept of "flooding" always evokes memories of a bit of fun... having a pair of swans swimming up to the front door every morning demanding food, taking the speedboat down the lane to school and back. And after the water had gone back down, one of the entire fields remained flooded (due to the high banks), and one particularly cold year subsequently froze over, creating basically an outdoor ice rink.
 
I've thankfully not personally experienced it, probably because as a Civil Engineer specialised in soil and drainage the quaint home by the river or duck pond has always scared me off knowing the potential risks, but I have seen way more than enough of it in Kent in neighbouring towns with friends and family unlucky enough to have their dream homes turned into nightmares by entirely preventable floods caused by decades of poor planning, underfunding and governmental mismanagement. I've lived and worked in areas with far, far higher rainfall than the UK and having recently returned am horrified at how far things here have slid and how little the Environment Agency and the likes actually do other than panicked knee jerk reactions and PR face saving exercises in the aftermath of every annual flood season.

You think thats bad - i have 1000's of tonnes of temporary bridging available immediatley - guess how many engineers the council have in their structures / highways teams over xmas - Ill give you a clue - its a very round number!
 
@Bury Red I completely agree mate - I am not trying to belittle what the victims here are going through, merely just that for me, the concept of "flooding" always evokes memories of a bit of fun... having a pair of swans swimming up to the front door every morning demanding food, taking the speedboat down the lane to school and back. And after the water had gone back down, one of the entire fields remained flooded (due to the high banks), and one particularly cold year subsequently froze over, creating basically an outdoor ice rink.
I didn't intend to come across as being critical of your view, I also find bad weather events like this fascinating and used to really enjoy tornadoes and tropical rainstorms in Singapore and Hong Kong safe in the knowledge that the design measures and warning systems put in place well in advance meant you could do so from a position of security and enjoy the extra day off work but so much of what is going on in the UK is purely down to poor planning and tight fistedness and it's always the common man at the bottom who bears the brunt of it.
 
I didn't intend to come across as being critical of your view, I also find bad weather events like this fascinating and used to really enjoy tornadoes and tropical rainstorms in Singapore and Hong Kong safe in the knowledge that the design measures and warning systems put in place well in advance meant you could do so from a position of security and enjoy the extra day off work but so much of what is going on in the UK is purely down to poor planning and tight fistedness and it's always the common man at the bottom who bears the brunt of it.

When we were at the pub I was talking about, my dad regularly had run-ins with the local borough council over their flood preparations (amongst other things). I share the view that they are largely incompetent when it comes to these sorts of issue. Our 'best' year for flooding was when the army came down to practice a river crossing exercise (building a temporary bridge etc) and left loads of sandbags and other such supplies for us to use.
 
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@Bury Red I completely agree mate - I am not trying to belittle what the victims here are going through, merely just that for me, the concept of "flooding" always evokes memories of a bit of fun... having a pair of swans swimming up to the front door every morning demanding food, taking the speedboat down the lane to school and back. And after the water had gone back down, one of the entire fields remained flooded (due to the high banks), and one particularly cold year subsequently froze over, creating basically an outdoor ice rink.

I nearly said Workington/Whitehaven for the rugby connection, but settled for the coast. I was in Whitehaven a few weeks ago, sorry to say there's a depressing air of poverty about the town centre. You can see lots of money has been spent around the harbour hoping to attract tourists, but I couldn't help thinking we would be better using all our resources to attract and build industry for the future. It's still a great area to live in, just needs more employment.
 
As I've said before, if this was happening in the Home Counties, there'd be more money spent.

There was flooding there last year was there not, which the Government rather bungled its response to. And unless Cameron has told a bald face lie (not impossible ;)), the north of the country supposedly receives more than the south.

The summer of 2007 saw flooding across vast swatches of the UK, with some of the same counties as now among those affected, were any lessons actually learnt?



I am fairly certain that the national flood defence budget is now higher than it was under the previous Labour government. Indeed the Tories made a point of highlighting it directly in their 2015 manifesto. The piece may go on to make a valid point about floodplains and related construction (those of us who opposed planning deregulation were a minority IIRC), however it's beginning is questionable to say the least.

Longer term policies like those cited in your Guardian article do need to be more prevalent though, in which case both the EA and ministers have some explaining to do when summoned before the EFRA Select Committee.
 
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Its weird because I never personally see floods as too big a deal. simply because when growing up as a child my parents owned/ran a pub located next to the river Severn, and we got flooded most every year. To me as a child it was a lot of fun - having to get in our little speedboat to take us to where the cars were parked (on the higher ground)... it was easy enough to tell when the water was rising and make preparations. Often made it onto local and even national news - I had my picture in a paper getting the boat to school in the morning :D

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=lower+lode+inn+flood&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=955&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiSkZrgxIPKAhVFbxQKHQcQAwgQ_AUIBygC#imgrc=vNVmDMk7WDtK2M:

Yeah I grew up on the banks of the Severn. Flooding was standard procedure every year really. The flood defences they've put further up the river in Bewdley are amazing though.
 
There was flooding there last year was there not, which the Government rather bungled its response to. And unless Cameron has told a bald face lie (not impossible ;)), the north of the country supposedly receives more than the south.

The summer of 2007 saw flooding across vast swatches of the UK, with some of the same counties as now among those affected, were any lessons actually learnt?




I am fairly certain that the national flood defence budget is now higher than it was under the previous Labour government. Indeed the Tories made a point of highlighting it directly in their 2015 manifesto. The piece may go on to make a valid point about floodplains and related construction (those of us who opposed planning deregulation were a minority IIRC), however it's beginning is questionable to say the least.

Longer term policies like those cited in your Guardian article do need to be more prevalent though, in which case both the EA and ministers have some explaining to do when summoned before the EFRA Select Committee.

Flood defence spending was cut by the coalition by 8% according to the BBC. Announcing spending now when you realise you made a terrible mistake doesn't put those defences in place.

If you take the floods in Leeds as an example, Leads council proposed flood defences in 2007 which Cameron's govt cancelled. They are now flooded because of that decision.

5 billion pounds worth of damage across the North to save how much?

As to the first part in bold it would seem like common sense to spend on flood defences where it rains heaviest and most often if you expect increased amounts of it due to climate change, wouldn't it?
 
Flood defence spending was cut by the coalition by 8% according to the BBC. Announcing spending now when you realise you made a terrible mistake doesn't put those defences in place.

If you take the floods in Leeds as an example, Leads council proposed flood defences in 2007 which Cameron's govt cancelled. They are now flooded because of that decision.

5 billion pounds worth of damage across the North to save how much?

https://fullfact.org/factchecks/flood_defence_spending-29313

The fact that the Tories actually spoke about spending on flood defences was one reason why i voted for them back in 2010. But when government has to argue the toss over the minutiae and interpretation, someone at least is attempting to massage the figures. So i hold my hands up for the assertion i made there.


As to the first part in bold it would seem like common sense to spend on flood defences where it rains heaviest and most often if you expect increased amounts of it due to climate change, wouldn't it?

Of course, the money should go to where the need is most acute. I was merely contesting the point that the competence of government in this area improves the farther south you go. Rather it is a bit of a mixed bag everywhere.[/QUOTE]
 
I live in Halifax about 50 metres from the river Calder which burst its banks on Boxing Day. We evacuated at about 430pm as the water was surrounding my house. Had to carry my dog through the worst of it near the end of our village as the water was about waist height. Spent all night at the in laws worrying about what we'd come back to. Anyway, next day got back to find that it was about 2 inches from coming into the living room but the cellar was up to the ceiling so lost everything down there (new boiler, fuse box etc). But we were lucky, my wife's grandma lives at the end of our street in a ground floor flat and lost everything at 80 odd years old. Heartbreaking.
 
I live in Leeds but I'm with family in Manchester at the moment. I'll be heading back tomorrow so will be checking it out myself first hand. Fortunately I live in Headingley rather than the city centre so my house won't be underwater when I get there.
In Leeds too and I haven't noticed it at all, besides Kirkstall road being closed. Looked really bad down there in pictures I've seen, looks like a river!
Parts of the city centre were fecked aswell.

I go to Uni in Manchester so will have to ask a few people what it was like when I'm back. Round the Lowry in Salford looked bad.

Sorry to hear about your wife's grandma @Stookie. Round the Calder was probably the worst affected area in England wasn't it? Was she covered for flood damage?

I saw on the news that a man was about to open his pub on Boxing Day and he'd spent hundreds of thousands on it, but he wasn't covered for flood damage because he was right next to a river. That's the whole bloody point of insurance, surely? To take the risk away from living/owning next to hazardous things.
Poor bloke has to fork out £200k to repair it all, if he bothers.
 
In Leeds too and I haven't noticed it at all, besides Kirkstall road being closed. Looked really bad down there in pictures I've seen, looks like a river!
Parts of the city centre were fecked aswell.

I go to Uni in Manchester so will have to ask a few people what it was like when I'm back. Round the Lowry in Salford looked bad.

Sorry to hear about your wife's grandma @Stookie. Round the Calder was probably the worst affected area in England wasn't it? Was she covered for flood damage?

I saw on the news that a man was about to open his pub on Boxing Day and he'd spent hundreds of thousands on it, but he wasn't covered for flood damage because he was right next to a river. That's the whole bloody point of insurance, surely? To take the risk away from living/owning next to hazardous things.
Poor bloke has to fork out £200k to repair it all, if he bothers.
No, her daughter dealt with all that and forgot to renew in November. To add to that she's got terminal cancer. However, she has been rehoused quickly by the council. My firmed who has a carpet shop has been and measured up the new flat and is fitting them for free. Others have donated furniture and clothes, food etc. The whole community has really pulled together, not just for her but everyone involved.
 
I saw on the news that a man was about to open his pub on Boxing Day and he'd spent hundreds of thousands on it, but he wasn't covered for flood damage because he was right next to a river. That's the whole bloody point of insurance, surely? To take the risk away from living/owning next to hazardous things.
Poor bloke has to fork out £200k to repair it all, if he bothers.
Did he tell his insurer it was by a river?
Anyway the point of insurance from an insurers perspective is to make money and it sounds like there would have been a lot of risk for presumably not enough reward
 
Did he tell his insurer it was by a river?
Anyway the point of insurance from an insurers perspective is to make money and it sounds like there would have been a lot of risk for presumably not enough reward
Yeah that's why he didn't get the cover. And I know that but they're there to take the risk away from us, so it's not fair refusing to cover someone who's at high risk of flooding.
 
Did he tell his insurer it was by a river?
Anyway the point of insurance from an insurers perspective is to make money and it sounds like there would have been a lot of risk for presumably not enough reward
Insurers are a bunch of money grubbing bastards who will ream you with high premiums on anything you have to insure regardless of how low the risk might be and wriggle like snakes the one time you make a claim as they try to avoid accepting responsibility. When it comes down to items like house insurance which are compulsory if you have a mortgage and pretty much a necessity even if you don't as they cover 90% of your assets they really need to be better regulated.

My old man looked to shop his insurance around last year as the premiums had nearly doubled over the last few years despite having only made one claim for a washing machine that caught fire, 20 years ago, in over 40 years with them. The new companies all refused to insure as he was within 250m of the Irwell despite the fact he's also at least 40m higher than the Irwell. There's a great risk that many in these flood hit areas will be stuck in negative equity for many years to come as a direct result of insurance companies' attitudes when they have done nothing wrong and the only reason their risk of flooding has increased is down to Environment Agency incompetence and inaction often miles away from their once safe home.
 
I'm a commercial insurance broker and getting flood cover is only going to get more difficult for those with properties close to a body of water.

When I have to get new business quotes, I often have to go to 10-15 insurers to find one willing to give flood cover (that does not have a really high excess) but we can usually do it.

The customers who are suffering are the smaller little shops. Most brokers are not going to be interested in spending their time on what would be a £250 policy.
 
Insurers are a bunch of money grubbing bastards who will ream you with high premiums on anything you have to insure regardless of how low the risk might be and wriggle like snakes the one time you make a claim as they try to avoid accepting responsibility. When it comes down to items like house insurance which are compulsory if you have a mortgage and pretty much a necessity even if you don't as they cover 90% of your assets they really need to be better regulated.

I'm not sure companies should be regulated into commercial transactions they know will loose money and therefore have to increase premiums for people not at risk to cover it.

Perhaps the government should be forced to offer insurance (which they can re-insure through one of the big re-insurers) to places deemed high risk
 
I'm a commercial insurance broker and getting flood cover is only going to get more difficult for those with properties close to a body of water.

When I have to get new business quotes, I often have to go to 10-15 insurers to find one willing to give flood cover (that does not have a really high excess) but we can usually do it.

The customers who are suffering are the smaller little shops. Most brokers are not going to be interested in spending their time on what would be a £250 policy.
We work in a lot of disaster relief zones (earthquakes, floods, wars... Yeah all the fun stuff) and we build emergency access bridges - imagine the fun and games we have fighting for insurances!
Good commercial brokers are a necessity but as you say small premiums are not worth your time and effort
 
I'm not sure companies should be regulated into commercial transactions they know will loose money and therefore have to increase premiums for people not at risk to cover it.

Perhaps the government should be forced to offer insurance (which they can re-insure through one of the big re-insurers) to places deemed high risk
It's the governments incompetence thats lead to this, the people involved should march to Westminster and demand reparations.
 
Insurers are a bunch of money grubbing bastards who will ream you with high premiums on anything you have to insure regardless of how low the risk might be and wriggle like snakes the one time you make a claim as they try to avoid accepting responsibility. When it comes down to items like house insurance which are compulsory if you have a mortgage and pretty much a necessity even if you don't as they cover 90% of your assets they really need to be better regulated.

My old man looked to shop his insurance around last year as the premiums had nearly doubled over the last few years despite having only made one claim for a washing machine that caught fire, 20 years ago, in over 40 years with them. The new companies all refused to insure as he was within 250m of the Irwell despite the fact he's also at least 40m higher than the Irwell. There's a great risk that many in these flood hit areas will be stuck in negative equity for many years to come as a direct result of insurance companies' attitudes when they have done nothing wrong and the only reason their risk of flooding has increased is down to Environment Agency incompetence and inaction often miles away from their once safe home.
yep bastards they are. I am one of the few whom have flood cover here as I have had it for years but never used it. but i dont know whether to take the hit and pay cash for stuff lost and have cover for future flooding if its worse, or claim on it and lose any future cover as the area is now blackspotted. I mean.... why do we pay this in thie first place and then afraid to use it? I hate them. Theres a couple of families here that are being screwed by them as they try to wriggle out of paying up.
 
I'm not sure companies should be regulated into commercial transactions they know will loose money and therefore have to increase premiums for people not at risk to cover it.

Perhaps the government should be forced to offer insurance (which they can re-insure through one of the big re-insurers) to places deemed high
risk

Such a subsidy could be an effective use of government flood relief money. Everyone agrees we need to spend more on protecting the heavily built-up areas at highest risk, but bear in mind even those will never be totally guaranteed in their protection, just safer than they were. And after that you look at the needs of smaller and smaller places at less and less predictable risk until it becomes obviously uneconomic to spend heavily on their protection. So I think a government scheme of 'fall-back' flood insurance might be a good thing.

For those who can't get insurance try the Halifax. My postcode is on the EA site as at risk, and my house has been flooded when owned by a relative, but I still got insurance ok. Probably just lucky, but it's worth a try.
 
It's obvious that these floods are actually god punishing us for voting for the Tories
 
In Leeds too and I haven't noticed it at all, besides Kirkstall road being closed. Looked really bad down there in pictures I've seen, looks like a river!
Parts of the city centre were fecked aswell.

I go to Uni in Manchester so will have to ask a few people what it was like when I'm back. Round the Lowry in Salford looked bad.

Sorry to hear about your wife's grandma @Stookie. Round the Calder was probably the worst affected area in England wasn't it? Was she covered for flood damage?

I saw on the news that a man was about to open his pub on Boxing Day and he'd spent hundreds of thousands on it, but he wasn't covered for flood damage because he was right next to a river. That's the whole bloody point of insurance, surely? To take the risk away from living/owning next to hazardous things.
Poor bloke has to fork out £200k to repair it all, if he bothers.

My mate's Pharmacy was completed flooded in Salford.
 
My mate's Pharmacy was completed flooded in Salford.
Sorry to hear mate. Irwell must've been quite bad.

To be honest I've not heard of many horror stories in Leeds, but I know people who've had relatives who've lost everything out near the Calder and parts of the Wharf/Aire. I assume some business owners on Kirkstall Road lost everything in there too.

Worst Christmas imaginable for some people. Suppose we should be thankful there hasn't been any (?) deaths.
 
A good discussion abut flood prevention on Fivelive at the minute, centring around:

- Catchment areas and increased tree planting.
- More resilient building materials and design, particularly near to ground level of a property.
- Planning regs which consider flood risk, and don't simply allow a developer to dump a new street on existing infrastructure.
 
has anyone blamed the gays yet?
 
A good discussion abut flood prevention on Fivelive at the minute, centring around:

- Catchment areas and increased tree planting.
- More resilient building materials and design, particularly near to ground level of a property.
- Planning regs which consider flood risk, and don't simply allow a developer to dump a new street on existing infrastructure.

I've been listening, the BBC generally do these things quite well. I can't help thinking that tory governments, central planning involving large landowners, and long-term objectives, are things that just don't go together, but maybe that's just my own prejudices.
 
I've been listening, the BBC generally do these things quite well. I can't help thinking that tory governments, central planning involving large landowners, and long-term objectives, are things that just don't go together, but maybe that's just my own prejudices.

Possibly. :) Organisations like the Environment Agency are akin to the proverbial oil tanker when someone suggests a change in course; going by the Fivelive debate things are beginning to improve, just slowly. Building standards have been a problem for decades, the New Build constructions of the 90-2010s to this (no offence intended to anyone presently inhabiting such a property).

By the way, have any of you here taken up this £5,000 government grant through which you can improve the flood resilience of your home/business?
 
Environment Agency chairman Sir Philip Dilley, who faced criticism during the recent floods, has resigned.

He had faced criticism for holidaying in Barbados during the floods in December, the wettest month on record in the UK.

He said the role now required him to be available at short notice and this was "inappropriate in a part-time non-executive position".

In a statement, he also said he found the media scrutiny "unacceptable".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35285020
 
Tadcaster finally reconnected today
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35564321
tadcaster-footbridge-span-2-1170x652.jpg
 
I sure it looks alright finished sun. Looking at the photo again the river's still high there, I presume the road bridge would be quite challenging.
Yeah the river is pretty bad at the moment
A temp road bridge would not have been much different to a footbridge (well the price would have been higher and a bit more associated civils)
But you would have had to demolish buildings to realign the road
The perm roadbridge will be tricky as it's actually two bridges one from 1700s and one from 1900's and there is still some investigation going on to figure out the best way to repair... But more floods won't help