FIFA has announced Champions’ Cup and Club World Cup for women
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss three 1-1 draws.
The first got us knocked out of the FA Cup, the next puts us in a good position in our Round of 16 Europa League game, and the latest was an actual decent performance against Arsenal at Old Trafford.
All hopes for the season now rest on the Europa League - does Amorim have the squad to win it?
Have the top European sides played the top North American sides in anything competitive in recent years and if so how did they compare?
Club World Cup is no surprise. What is Champions Cup?
It says right there. Six champions from confederation club competition to compete for the trophy. UWCL winner etc.
Club World Cup will have several top clubs from each confederation.
The maths makes no sense. 19 clubs from around the world. And this ends up, after further mathematical mumbo-jumbo, as four groups of four. Right.
Looks pretty simple to me. 3 play-in matches, the winners qualify for the group stage.
So, take the original 19 and deduct 3 to make 16. Makes perfect sense.
I'm really dubious about these FIFA inventions. I'm not impressed by the calendar sprawl and consequent overload on players that's been added to the men's game. I'm just as doubtful in the women's game.
I like the idea of the best teams (and hopefully some of the best matches) in women's club football being seen by more people. I just can't help thinking that a major FIFA tournament every year is too much.
I like the idea of the best teams (and hopefully some of the best matches) in women's club football being seen by more people. I just can't help thinking that a major FIFA tournament every year is too much.
It's money though, isn't it? Personally I'd like to hear what the players themselves feel about such proposals rather than what clubs think.
There's the (expanding) WSL, the League Cup, the FA Cup, Champions League, Euros, World Cup, and then these extra FIFA competitions. The players, and I'm not just talking about United players, but the players should have a say.
The same thing worries about this as worries me about the proposal to significantly expand the WSL: Will there be sufficient fan support to make it a winning proposition? Lots of folks are understandably enthusiastic about the recent growth of and support for the women's game, but I fear that this has led many to assume that this rate of growth will continue unabated in the future, and that "If you build it, they will come." As much as I hope that will be the case, I'm not sure how much I'd be willing to wager on it. What if such interest has already peaked? In the UK, what if the big boost that came from England winning the Euros fades with time? They can't win their first European Championship again. I'm not necessarily predicting this, but I fear that there is a ceiling for potential fan support, and we simply don't know yet where that is. It seems to me that too much expansion, too fast, carries the risk of creating a bloated system that eventually collapses under its own weight.
That said, I also agree with @Demon Barber that it would be good to know what the players think about these things, not just the suits at the top who hope to make money off all this.
That said, I also agree with @Demon Barber that it would be good to know what the players think about these things, not just the suits at the top who hope to make money off all this.
To small letters for my myopic eyes
I’m not sure both cups are needed, but I like that they’re getting it going globally.
This one should be better as the European teams will actually have teams as good or better than them in the Americans.
Hey, don't be dissing us Americans!!!!
I'm totally kidding. In fact, you're probably right. The NWSL is structured in a way that maximizes parity, so the best teams in the league aren't generally all that much better than the bottom teams. In contrast, it seems that in most European Leagues (including the WSL), there are 2-4 great teams and a bunch of also-rans. If there were a tournament pitting the bottom clubs of the various leagues against each other, I'll bet the NWSL would do very well, but the best teams in European clubs are generally likely to be better than the best teams in the NWSL.
Excellent and thoughtful post. We simply have no idea where the ceiling is, but I suspect we have not reached it yet. I have no idea about the attendances or pricing in the US - if you could inform me I would be grateful - but here in the UK the women's game is marginalised.
Kick-off times and days are arranged to suit the broadcasters and pay absolutely no attention to the fanbase. The fanbase is predominantly families - so late kick-offs on a Sunday are out. Games that do not give enough time to people who attend the men's games are out. Local girls' teams would love to attend regularly, but there are clashes. I could go on.
Regarding "too fast too soon" I sort of agree. Your "Field of Dreams" reference could be right, if only there was joined-up thinking. Sadly, there isn't.
I’m with @Grande. Having both seems pretty weird and pointless as one just seems to be an expanded version of the other
It's always about the money with FIFA even when they dress it up with words like showcasing or inspiring. I guess I'm worried that getting the balance wrong between national leagues and these big showpiece events risks stalling sustainable growth of the game. Both in terms of building up crowds at pro matches and in giving girls the chance to play football at the grassroots level.
The richest clubs really will get richer. Whether it'll encourage Chelsea fans to show up when their super club plays Leicester in a midweek fixture at Kingsmeadow I don't know. I doubt it'll inspire Southampton to spend more on their women's team though.
I think the ceiling is high, way above where it is today. I say that based on the quality leap that I've seen in the past ten years for the top international football and club football. A lot of the hard work has been done in terms of establishing that, "women can play football."
The Euros in England meant it took hold well enough that girls can dream of being footballers. TV ratings are now good enough to justify the costs to the broadcasters.
I am conscious though that it's still early days for the pro game in Europe and that pro clubs are non-existent in most countries. It's a relatively fragile and unfamiliar fanbase for matchgoing football. The difference in attendance (numbers and demographics!) between midweek and weekend games for example is big.
I grew up expecting to go to a football match every other Saturday at 3pm (yes, I am that old). A midweek match meant a bit of extra colour - a cup tie, a European match. I got hooked into the routine and maintained that, 'it's the match, you have to go," habit even when Sky etc started shuffling timings around.
Women's pro football hasn't managed that yet. Games shuffle around seemingly at random to fit TV schedules and grounds that are used by other clubs. International matches wipe out weeks. It's an incredibly stop/start pattern.
Getting people psyched up for a match in the WSL Championship because you saw Barcelona hammer Gotham at last week's tournament though? I don't buy it.
Some of this feels like a manufactured attempt to skip the tricky stuff like developing grassroots football, getting more girls playing, building a fanbase. A superleague without a league to feed it new talent and matchgoing fans to make it feel real.
But maybe I'm just being unambitious. Maybe it's partly because United (men) have sucked all my enthusiasm for watching more football out of me.
Bah, humbug.
Pitting the best of Europe Vs North America will definitely draw interest
Although I'm guessing the level in some continents is low, probably not professional yet so not sure 16 teams are needed - should have started with 8 and grow from there
Although I'm guessing the level in some continents is low, probably not professional yet so not sure 16 teams are needed - should have started with 8 and grow from there
This post got me thinking (and researching) the women's game as a whole, and I was surprised by the findings.I think the ceiling is high, way above where it is today. I say that based on the quality leap that I've seen in the past ten years for the top international football and club football. A lot of the hard work has been done in terms of establishing that, "women can play football."
The Euros in England meant it took hold well enough that girls can dream of being footballers. TV ratings are now good enough to justify the costs to the broadcasters.
I am conscious though that it's still early days for the pro game in Europe and that pro clubs are non-existent in most countries. It's a relatively fragile and unfamiliar fanbase for matchgoing football. The difference in attendance (numbers and demographics!) between midweek and weekend games for example is big.
I grew up expecting to go to a football match every other Saturday at 3pm (yes, I am that old). A midweek match meant a bit of extra colour - a cup tie, a European match. I got hooked into the routine and maintained that, 'it's the match, you have to go," habit even when Sky etc started shuffling timings around.
Women's pro football hasn't managed that yet. Games shuffle around seemingly at random to fit TV schedules and grounds that are used by other clubs. International matches wipe out weeks. It's an incredibly stop/start pattern.
Getting people psyched up for a match in the WSL Championship because you saw Barcelona hammer Gotham at last week's tournament though? I don't buy it.
Some of this feels like a manufactured attempt to skip the tricky stuff like developing grassroots football, getting more girls playing, building a fanbase. A superleague without a league to feed it new talent and matchgoing fans to make it feel real.
But maybe I'm just being unambitious. Maybe it's partly because United (men) have sucked all my enthusiasm for watching more football out of me.
Bah, humbug.
So, there are 195 countries in the world, not including dependent states/territories. 187 of these countries have women's national teams that compete internationally. That's a staggering number, especially if you take into account that all of those countries have multiple clubs and leagues at different age groups.
However, you are right about the lack of professional women's leagues. Some sources say there are only 10 countries with professional women's leagues - USA, England, Spain, Germany, Italy, Japan, Australia, France, Sweden and China. Some other countries may have professional clubs rather than leagues.
I went further down the rabbit hole! Take one country - England - and the Greater Manchester Women's Football League has 35 teams playing at levels 7 and 8 on the pyramid. Each team has multiple age groups. Projecting this to every county, and then every country, I'd say that the development of women's football at grassroots level is in a healthy state. But you are right. The funding is simply not there yet. A tiny percentage of female footballers are paid to play. The overwhelming majority pay to play.
Edit: I'm not sure what my point is, or what relevance it has to the OP. Ah well, it's done now.
If it can do what it says on the label and show the best of women's club football to an international audience, I love that idea.
I'm just very suspicious of what the side-effects will be. I can see further concentration of wealth and talent in a handful of European clubs. I can also imagine that a handle of rich sponsors and sportswashers will back a handful of clubs in Africa. It's that sensation of franchised football - disconnected from its local community - ending up as the model for game development across while chunks of the world that I don't like.
Maybe it's impossible to avoid and TV makes it inevitable for any sport trying to grow in the twenty-first century. I don't like it though and it's an instinctive distrust of a global franchise model. A football cake that's all cherry on the top and no cake.
And now I'm back in bah humbug mode again
I fully get your scepticism and disillusionment, and I share it. But that is at the top, elite end of the game.If it can do what it says on the label and show the best of women's club football to an international audience, I love that idea.
I'm just very suspicious of what the side-effects will be. I can see further concentration of wealth and talent in a handful of European clubs. I can also imagine that a handle of rich sponsors and sportswashers will back a handful of clubs in Africa. It's that sensation of franchised football - disconnected from its local community - ending up as the model for game development across while chunks of the world that I don't like.
Maybe it's impossible to avoid and TV makes it inevitable for any sport trying to grow in the twenty-first century. I don't like it though and it's an instinctive distrust of a global franchise model. A football cake that's all cherry on the top and no cake.
And now I'm back in bah humbug mode again
What my post was trying to point out is that the women's game is flourishing at grassroots level across the world, and I love it.