FIFA Ballon d’Or 2013

The weird thing about Sneijder back then was that he wasn't even the best player at Inter. Milito was usually considered as the most important player in the treble winning team, he also won UEFA player of the year that season, just like Ribery this season. Sneijder became all of a sudden 'the one who should have won it' after the worldcup, but again even at the worldcup he wasn't the standout player for the Netherlands, just one of their best. Robben had individually clearly a better season than Sneijder that year, but he lost out on a treble with Bayern when they lost the final in which Milito and Inter's defense made the difference, not Sneijder.

Ribery this year was individually on a clearly higher level than Sneijder back in 2010, it's not even close, imo. No idea what that means in comparison to Ronaldo and Messi, though.

SirAF said:
Heynckes should win it. If he had not won the Treble then Ferguson should have won it for wrestling back the title in his final season.
Click to expand...
If Bayern lost the CL final, surely Klopp should be a massive favorite ahead of Ferguson ;).
 
Exactly Balu. Sneijder while good, wasn't the main reason behind the treble. He was good in CL but not that much in Serie A. Inter's defense was their biggest asset with Maicon, Zanetti, Samuel playing key roles.
 
Danny1982 said:
Neymar hasn't been as good as Messi this year IMO, two very good games from Neymar, but I won't go as far as him being better than Messi (this season)..

Ribery didn't have a better year on personal level than Messi or Ronaldo, and IMO the only reason why his name is talked about seriously in the race is because Bayern won the treble. If Dortmund has won the CL I think Messi would have been a clear favorite.

Also IMO Ronaldo is out of the race this year, unless he does something spectacular before the end of the year (like breaking the all time calendar year goal record). There is no way Messi or Ribery is going to finish third as things stand now. Ronaldo is 99% going to finish 3rd because he didn't have a stellar year (I mean all-time stellar) on personal level, nor did he win any trophy in 2013..

The next two months could still decide the winner though...
Click to expand...


That's fair enough.
 
Defenders never get the same credit attacking players do.

Edit : And checked, no Inter defender apart from Maicon was nominated anyway.
 
AldoRaine18 said:
Defenders never get the same credit attacking players do.

Edit : And checked, no Inter defender apart from Maicon was nominated anyway.
Click to expand...


That still doesn't answer my question though does it? Why did Sneijder deserve it then over Messi, yet this year Ribery doesn't? There has to be a reason why the Caftards think this. If one deserves to win it over Messi for having a great treble year, then Ribery also deserves it for contributing to the treble year. I think I know the answer, but I am not going to say...
 
Thomas Muller should be a realistic contender too. Lovely lovely player.

But more than likely 1 and 2 will be Messi and Ronaldo.
 
I think they'll give it to Heynckes and they'll create a lifetime achievement award for Ferguson as a tribute to his career achievements.
 
elmo said:
I think they'll give it to Heynckes and they'll create a lifetime achievement award for Ferguson as a tribute to his career achievements.
Click to expand...
The ones who vote have nothing to do with FIFA and France Football though. I don't think they create a life time achievement award this year, then it could happen that he'll win both which would be a bit idiotic. They have more than enough time to give him a life time achievement award the next years when he won't be nominated as manager of the year.
 
Proud_Lyon said:
Yet a few claim on this forum that Sneijder deserved it more than Messi? Why was that?
Click to expand...
Because he was an important player in a treble winning team and in a team making it to the worldcup final, almost winning it in extra time? It's not that outrageous and I wouldn't have called him an undeserved winner. Xavi was another great shout that season, would also have been a deserved winner. Often enough it's not as clear-cut as some people will say it is. Didn't Xavi finish 2nd and Iniesta 3rd that season?

Before the whole Ronaldo and Messi rivalry peaked in both pushing each other to insane individual stats (interesting enough both their clubs declined with their goalscoring at their peak in the last 2 years), it wasn't seen as clear cut that both are way above the rest of the football world. And often enough in the past, being influential in winning trophies was seen as the greater achievement as being the outstanding player in a team winning less or even nothing of importance. It all changed when some people started to call Messi already the best of all time and in his shadow the whole Barca vs Real, Messi vs Ronaldo and Guardiola vs Mourinho drama was bigged up to unreal heights and made those two players and their teams look invincible, when they're clearly not. It's really weird and I can't remember a time in football when the discussions about the standout players of a generation were as embarassing as it is today with those two.
 
Balu said:
The ones who vote have nothing to do with FIFA and France Football though. I don't think they create a life time achievement award this year, then it could happen that he'll win both which would be a bit idiotic. They have more than enough time to give him a life time achievement award the next years when he won't be nominated as manager of the year.
Click to expand...

No way they'll give him the manager of the year though, it'll be a farce if anyone but Heynckes won it.
 
Balu said:
Because he was an important player in a treble winning team and in a team making it to the worldcup final, almost winning it in extra time? It's not that outrageous and I wouldn't have called him an undeserved winner. Xavi was another great shout that season, would also have been a deserved winner. Often enough it's not as clear-cut as some people will say it is. Didn't Xavi finish 2nd and Iniesta 3rd that season?

Before the whole Ronaldo and Messi rivalry peaked in both pushing each other to insane individual stats (interesting enough both their clubs declined with their goalscoring at their peak in the last 2 years), it wasn't seen as clear cut that both are way above the rest of the football world. And often enough in the past, being influential in winning trophies was seen as the greater achievement as being the outstanding player in a team winning less or even nothing of importance. It all changed when some people started to call Messi already the best of all time and in his shadow the whole Barca vs Real, Messi vs Ronaldo and Guardiola vs Mourinho drama was bigged up to unreal heights and made those two players and their teams look invincible, when they're clearly not. It's really weird and I can't remember a time in football when the discussions about the standout players of a generation were as embarassing as it is today with those two.
Click to expand...

That's not true.. When you're good enough it did prove enough in the past to negate other teams' achievements.. Rivaldo won it when United won the treble, and Owen won it without winning anything of significance..

The only difference now, before Messi and Ronaldo we didn't have players playing at their level of consistency and production. We didn't have players who were that good. Messi and Ronaldo have been breaking all-time records right and left in the last 5-6 years, on personal level.. That's something we haven't really seen in the previous ten years..
 
Danny1982 said:
That's not true.. When you're good enough it did prove enough in the past to negate other teams' achievements.. Rivaldo won it when United won the treble, and Owen won it without winning anything of significance..

The only difference now, before Messi and Ronaldo we didn't have players playing at their level of consistency and production. We didn't have players who were that good. Messi and Ronaldo have been breaking all-time records right and left in the last 5-6 years, on personal level.. That's something we haven't really seen in the previous ten years..
Click to expand...

I think you completely missed the point I'm trying to make with that post.

Also, did I say it was always the case? I thought 'often enough' means a lot but not every single year and there are enough examples to prove that statement. And Rivaldo in 99 played an outstanding Copa America when Brazil won it and he also won the leage with Barca. Are you really saying that Rivaldo didn't win anything of importance that season, because that's really not true. If the Copa America was played this summer and Messi carried Argentina to the win with brilliant perfomances, then of course we wouldn't have any discussions today and everyone would agree that Messi deserves it.

And Owen won the UEFA cup with Liverpool in 2001, which back then still meant something. Kahn was the standout player in Bayern's CL win but as a goalkeeper he basically had no chance, he finished 3rd though, which is brilliant for a goalkeeper and again shows my point how much trophies always influenced awards. Also Owen only won the Ballon d'Or that season, not FIFA world player of the year, that went to Figo with Beckham 2nd, both not even in the top 3 at the Ballon d'Or, which shows that the 2001 season really isn't a good example for your point because there simply wasn't a standout team, a standout player or a standout nationalteam that year.
 
Balu said:
I think you completely missed the point I'm trying to make with that post.

Also, did I say it was always the case? I thought 'often enough' means a lot but not every single year and there are enough examples to prove that statement. And Rivaldo in 99 played an outstanding Copa America when Brazil won it and he also won the leage with Barca. Are you really saying that Rivaldo didn't win anything of importance that season, because that's really not true. If the Copa America was played this summer and Messi carried Argentina to the win with brilliant perfomances, then of course we wouldn't have any discussions today and everyone would agree that Messi deserves it.

And Owen won the UEFA cup with Liverpool in 2001, which back then still meant something. Kahn was the standout player in Bayern's CL win but as a goalkeeper he basically had no chance, he finished 3rd though, which is brilliant for a goalkeeper and again shows my point how much trophies always influenced awards. Also Owen only won the Ballon d'Or that season, not FIFA world player of the year, that went to Figo with Beckham 2nd, both not even in the top 3 at the Ballon d'Or, which shows that the 2001 season really isn't a good example for your point because there simply wasn't a standout team, a standout player or a standout nationalteam that year.
Click to expand...

Well, you suggested that "it all changed after Messi and Ronaldo showed up". It didn't. Even before the Messi/Ronaldo era, when a player has an amazing season on personal level, it would definitely play an important role in the decision to choose the winner, even if he hasn't won as many significant trophies as other players.. I gave two examples for that. The Messi/Ronaldo era isn't different, it's just that we haven't had a player like them since 1995.

Also, you may have wanted to be accurate yourself in quoting me. I didn't say Rivaldo didn't win anything of significance. :confused: I said Owen didn't. Rivaldo won it despite United winning the treble. The bottom line, in both cases, the player who won it wasn't the player who won the most trophies, which was basically what you were implying.
 
I don't even know if it all changed, we have to wait who wins it this year. What changed is the huge drama and the amount of people I hear saying or I read writing that Ribery wouldn't be a deserved winner. That changed imo and not when Ronaldo and Messi appeared, but when they started breaking goal records, which wasn't even helpful in improving their teams so far. I might be wrong, but that's at least my perception and I explained it as an answer to Proud Lyon's question about Sneijder deserving the Ballon d'Or in 2010.

I explained why Rivaldo isn't a good example to prove that my statement is wrong, so there's really no need to talk about my accuracy in quoting. If you still think he is, then you missed my point again.
 
Players like Sneijder, Ribery, Ronaldo, Ibra, Neymar, etc. should have noticed by now that this Ballon d'Or is nothing a big pile of crap. Can't wait for this Messi obsession to stop already, it's a perversion.
 
Mihajlovic said:
Players like Sneijder, Ribery, Ronaldo, Ibra, Neymar, etc. should have noticed by now that this Ballon d'Or is nothing a big pile of crap. Can't wait for this Messi obsession to stop already, it's a perversion.
Click to expand...

It's not really the first time the popular option is likely to win. Neither it is the first time people will find the Ballon D'or winner undeserved. It's been like that since ages. Ronaldo did not deserve it in 2002, he still got it.

Not sure why people moan about it. It's a public vote between coaches, players and journos, obviously the popular options is going to win. This award gets way more hype that it deserves because it is really not all that.
 
Balu said:
I don't even know if it all changed, we have to wait who wins it this year. What changed is the huge drama and the amount of people I hear saying or I read writing that Ribery wouldn't be a deserved winner. That changed imo and not when Ronaldo and Messi appeared, but when they started breaking goal records, which wasn't even helpful in improving their teams so far. I might be wrong, but that's at least my perception and I explained it as an answer to Proud Lyon's question about Sneijder deserving the Ballon d'Or in 2010.

I explained why Rivaldo isn't a good example to prove that my statement is wrong, so there's really no need to talk about my accuracy in quoting. If you still think he is, then you missed my point again.
Click to expand...

I'm with PL on Sneijder.. He wasn't even Inter's best player at the time.. Ballon d'Or shouldn't be a game of "find the common factor".. You have to look at player's performances as well..

And if you ask me even about Ribery, even though I understand why people might go for him because of the treble factor, but IMO, 1 goal and 2 assists is just too little to credit him personally for Bayern's CL win, especially considering that Messi wasn't even fit in the head-to-head tie.. But Ribery still has a better case than Sneijder IMO, even though Messi did win a major trophy this time around..

Oh, and about Rivaldo, even if he didn't win La Liga or the Copa America, if he had performances like Messi in 2010, and scored 91 goals in one year, I still think he would have won it despite United winning the treble.. And compared to this year, even though he did win Copa America beside La Liga in 1999, but he didn't score 46 goals in the league.
 
Didn't the United treble winning team have similar situation to Bayern? No one really stood out at the end and all the votes were divided.

What else can explain David Ginola winning the PFA player of the year that season. :lol:
 
Danny1982 said:
I'm with PL on Sneijder.. He wasn't even Inter's best player at the time.. Ballon d'Or shouldn't be a game of "find the common factor".. You have to look at player's performances as well..

And if you ask me even about Ribery, even though I understand why people might go for him because of the treble factor, but IMO, 1 goal and 2 assists is just too little to credit him personally for Bayern's CL win, especially considering that Messi wasn't even fit in the head-to-head tie.. But Ribery still has a better case than Sneijder IMO, even though Messi did win a major trophy this time around..

Oh, and about Rivaldo, even if he didn't win La Liga or the Copa America, if he had performances like Messi in 2010, and scored 91 goals in one year, I still think he would have won it despite United winning the treble.. And compared to this year, even though he did win Copa America beside La Liga in 1999, but he didn't score 46 goals in the league.
Click to expand...
If you think you can measure Ribery's influence on the team with goals and assists, you're wrong. Just look at the CL final, in which he helped out in defense a lot when Bayern was overrun in the beginning, then made himself available in CM to close the gap between defense and attack (Müller and Robben played too high up the pitch which really was a problem against Dortmund's pressing with Kroos missing). His selfless role and Schweinsteiger's intelligence allowed Bayern to get control of the game, then Ribery unlocked Dortmund's defense with a brilliant individual moment when he played the pass to Robben for the assist to the first goal. At that point, Ribery had no assist and no goal credited to him, but was heavily influencial in turning a game in which Bayern clearly looked second best and clueless for large parts into a dominant performance. You can talk all you want about breaking goal records but if those goals don't turn the important games into wins, they are less influential than what Ribery did in the CL final without scoring.

And your part of Rivaldo is just speculation, so it's really pointless (and often enough proven wrong anyway, just look at Cannavaro and Buffon finishing 1st and 2nd ahead of Henry, Ronaldinho and Zidane, so saying Rivaldo would have won it without the copa is most likely bullshit, I know you didn't say that, but your point about 'if he played like Messi' is even more speculation and makes even less sense). And maybe you should start reading at the beginning of the discussion, I wrote a huge post about Milito being Inter's best player and Sneijder's 2010 year being a bit overrated. With context I still have hope you'll get the point I'm trying to make ;).
 
I think the voting is right now? No idea how long they have to send in the ballots, but usually France Football/FIFA announce who's in the top 3 at the end of november/beginning of december.
 
Balu said:
If you think you can measure Ribery's influence on the team with goals and assists, you're wrong. Just look at the CL final, in which he helped out in defense a lot when Bayern was overrun in the beginning, then made himself available in CM to close the gap between defense and attack (Müller and Robben played too high up the pitch which really was a problem against Dortmund's pressing with Kroos missing). His selfless role and Schweinsteiger's intelligence allowed Bayern to get control of the game, then Ribery unlocked Dortmund's defense with a brilliant individual moment when he played the pass to Robben for the assist to the first goal. At that point, Ribery had no assist and no goal credited to him, but was heavily influencial in turning a game in which Bayern clearly looked second best and clueless for large parts into a dominant performance. You can talk all you want about breaking goal records but if those goals don't turn the important games into wins, they are less influential than what Ribery did in the CL final without scoring.

And your part of Rivaldo is just speculation, so it's really pointless (and often enough proven wrong anyway, just look at Cannavaro and Buffon finishing 1st and 2nd ahead of Henry, Ronaldinho and Zidane, so saying Rivaldo would have won it without the copa is most likely bullshit, I know you didn't say that, but your point about 'if he played like Messi' is even more speculation and makes even less sense). And maybe you should start reading at the beginning of the discussion, I wrote a huge post about Milito being Inter's best player and Sneijder's 2010 year being a bit overrated. With context I still have hope you'll get the point I'm trying to make ;).
Click to expand...

Let's just agree to disagree here, because I think we both made our points..

And by the way, Cannavaro winning best player in the world in 2006 was one of the stupidest awards ever given IMO.
 
Yeah agree with Cannavaro, still proves my point though, not yours ;) .
 
amolbhatia100 said:
They should give it to bale, just to piss Ronaldo off.
Click to expand...


Fixed.

On a serious note, the award should go to Ribery and no other player. If I can find the thread about the Ballon D'Or in 2010 and how nearly 75% of caftards were sure that Sneijder deserved to win in it over Messi. These are probably the same caftards who think that Ribery doesn't deserve it because their boy Ronaldo has had a slightly, and I mean slightly better year than Messi.
 
You're very tedious. You probably ramble on about Ronaldo at work too. Is he all you think about?
 
Balu said:
The weird thing about Sneijder back then was that he wasn't even the best player at Inter. Milito was usually considered as the most important player in the treble winning team, he also won UEFA player of the year that season, just like Ribery this season. Sneijder became all of a sudden 'the one who should have won it' after the worldcup, but again even at the worldcup he wasn't the standout player for the Netherlands, just one of their best. Robben had individually clearly a better season than Sneijder that year, but he lost out on a treble with Bayern when they lost the final in which Milito and Inter's defense made the difference, not Sneijder.

Ribery this year was individually on a clearly higher level than Sneijder back in 2010, it's not even close, imo. No idea what that means in comparison to Ronaldo and Messi, though.


If Bayern lost the CL final, surely Klopp should be a massive favorite ahead of Ferguson ;).
Click to expand...

Sneijder was by far Netherland best and most important player. Agree about Milito though, but Sneijder had the benefit of being brilliant for both Inter and Holland.

I want Ribery to win it this year, but Sneijder in 2010 was IMO better than Ribery this season.
 
Revan said:
Sneijder was by far Netherland best and most important player. Agree about Milito though, but Sneijder had the benefit of being brilliant for both Inter and Holland.

I want Ribery to win it this year, but Sneijder in 2010 was IMO better than Ribery this season.
Click to expand...


I think it is very close between Ribery this year and Sneijder in 2010. This is why I don't understand the fact that most said Sneijder should have won it, but now claiming that Ribery might not be good enough to win it. There is no difference. For me, Ribery has had a fantastic year in helping Bayern to a fantastic treble and also his contribution to the French National team. Should he get France to the World Cup, that should sway it for others, because he is the best player France has at the moment.
 
Proud_Lyon said:
I think it is very close between Ribery this year and Sneijder in 2010. This is why I don't understand the fact that most said Sneijder should have won it, but now claiming that Ribery might not be good enough to win it. There is no difference. For me, Ribery has had a fantastic year in helping Bayern to a fantastic treble and also his contribution to the French National team. Should he get France to the World Cup, that should sway it for others, because he is the best player France has at the moment.
Click to expand...

His contribution for France won't count for much, these awards hardly recognise qualifiers as proper football (and rightly so, France have only faced Spain out of the top teams and didn't beat them).
 
Proud_Lyon said:
I think it is very close between Ribery this year and Sneijder in 2010. This is why I don't understand the fact that most said Sneijder should have won it, but now claiming that Ribery might not be good enough to win it. There is no difference. For me, Ribery has had a fantastic year in helping Bayern to a fantastic treble and also his contribution to the French National team. Should he get France to the World Cup, that should sway it for others, because he is the best player France has at the moment.
Click to expand...

The difference is that Sneijder had a stellar World Cup, while Ribery didn't (didn't had the fact that this year didn't had a World Cup :lol:).

They were pretty close at the club level, with Ribery being slightly better, but as I said Sneijder had the bonus of World Cup.

Sneijder was robbed IMO and he should have been an easy choice for the award, while I think that Ribery should get it, but even if he doesn't wouldn't be such a big injustice as it was on 2010.
 
Sneijder was very patchy throughout the season but turned up in the big games whereas Ribery was consistent throughout and played well in the big games.

He's a more deserving winner than Sneijder was in 2010.
 
Revan said:
Sneijder was by far Netherland best and most important player. Agree about Milito though, but Sneijder had the benefit of being brilliant for both Inter and Holland.

I want Ribery to win it this year, but Sneijder in 2010 was IMO better than Ribery this season.
Click to expand...
Well, he probably was their most important player, but I don't think he really played great. They were such a lucky team that fluked wins with incredible lucky goals against Brazil and Uruquay. His first against Brazil was already comical defending, his second was beyond ridiculous and before these goals they were massively outplayed and Sneijder did feck all to help his team. Still can't believe Brazil went out, they were easily the superior team. His equalizer in the semi final was a bad joke as well, ridiculous goalkeeping. I can't call that playing great, I'm sorry, his goals were incredibly important though, I agree with that and he was very good in the final.

But as I said before, I thought he would have been a deserved winner in 2010, just as Xavi and Messi, imo, you can make a case for all 3. Iniesta finishing in the top 3 mainly because of his goal in the final was a bit strange, imo. I really disagree with Sneijder playing on a higher level than Ribery this year though. Ribery was the driving force behind the arguably most dominant knockout stage performance in the CL of all time, winning all 4 games in the quarter final and semi final with a goal difference of 11:0 and playing a record breaking league season with probably the second best team in Europe playing in the same league. And like you said, Sneijder wasn't even the best player at Inter that year, a team that was mainly reactive, at least in Europe, and focused on quality defending with efficient goalscoring, so I don't understand why you think he was better in 2010 than Ribery in 2013. That doesn't make any sense to me. Also Ribery's start to the new season is incredibly brilliant, he's again the standout player and also scored the equaliser in Bayern's European supercup win against Chelsea. Sneijder's start to the new season in 2010 was shockingly bad, if I remember correctly with Inter loosing the super cup against Atletico and Sneijder being shit.
 
Proud_Lyon said:
I think it is very close between Ribery this year and Sneijder in 2010. This is why I don't understand the fact that most said Sneijder should have won it, but now claiming that Ribery might not be good enough to win it. There is no difference. For me, Ribery has had a fantastic year in helping Bayern to a fantastic treble and also his contribution to the French National team. Should he get France to the World Cup, that should sway it for others, because he is the best player France has at the moment.
Click to expand...

The caf is not indicative of how the award will go.. In 2010 most here actually thought that Sneijder should win it iirc (although I thought Messi should at the time).

Same with Ribery now, although after 4 Ballon d'Or, people (who are voting) might be now more open to the idea that somebody else wins it, which could sway them in that direction if it was a 50/50 choice for them..

However I disagree with you about something.. "Should he get France to the World Cup, that should sway it for others".. Why? It's France, not some mediocre team. France is expected to make the World Cup without any problems, and the fact that they have to go through the playoffs works actually against Ribery, rather than making it in the end working for him.. Actually if you're considering the national team performances and results, Messi comes out on top IMO, with Argentina qualifying as top of the group with rounds to spare (Messi obviously playing an important role in the process)..
 
Balu said:
Well, he probably was their most important player, but I don't think he really played great. They were such a lucky team that fluked wins with incredible lucky goals against Brazil and Uruquay. His first against Brazil was already comical defending, his second was beyond ridiculous and before these goals they were massively outplayed and Sneijder did feck all to help his team. Still can't believe Brazil went out, they were easily the superior team. His equalizer in the semi final was a bad joke as well, ridiculous goalkeeping. I can't call that playing great, I'm sorry, his goals were incredibly important though, I agree with that.

But as I said before, I thought he would have been a deserved winner in 2010, just as Xavi and Messi, imo. Iniesta finishing in the top 3 mainly because of his goal in the final was a bit strange, imo. I really disagree with Sneijder playing on a higher level than Ribery this year though. Ribery was the driving force behind the arguably most dominant knockout stage performance in the CL of all time, winning all 4 games in the quarter final and semi final with a goal difference of 11:0 and playing a record breaking league season with probably the second best team in Europe playing in the same league. And like you said, Sneijder wasn't even the best player at Inter that year, so I don't understand why you think he was better in 2010 than Ribery in 2013. That doesn't make any sense to me.
Click to expand...

I think that I explained it in the last post. Sneijder was great for both Inter and Holland. He was Inter's second best player (with Milito clearly being the best player in club level that year, shame he wasn't even in 23 nominees) and he was Holland's best player in the tournament. He didn't do a Zidane (someone can argue that he didn't do even a Forlan) in that World Cup but he scored 5 goals as an attacking midfielder (more that Holland's strikers combined IIRC), goals that send Holland on the final (when they arguably should have won it if Robben would have scored in those two brilliant assists by Sneijder).

Ribery has been the best player in Europe this year (though personally I think that Schweinsteiger was almost as important as him) and taking into context only the club football he was slightly better than Sneijder in 2010 IMO. But when you add Sneijder's contribution in the World Cup (and somehow strangely Ballon D'Or winner of that year - Messi - was completely invisible there) I think that Sneijder had an overall better year than Ribery this year. Both should have won it so hopefully Ribery this time gets it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.