Fergie going back to the lone striker ....AGAIN!

Another problem with this 4-5-1 system is that the midfielders all want to play central positions, leaving the wings to be operated by the 2 full-backs, i.e. Tweety & Phil!

Where's Becks these past few games? :confused: Where's Giggs? :confused: Where's the width? :confused:

With Keano, Veron & Scholes all wanting to play the central midfield role, they get into each other's way, don't run wide & into position, & don't support play effectively!

I first noticed the mess they got into in their UEFA opener against Lille last season - they were still at it last night!
 
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>We've always played 4-4-1-1, its just now we've lost a forward who can play that role. With no money seemingly to get that player, or it being better to wait and get the right one, we're making do with Scholes which effectively makes it 4-5-1. I think Forlan should be given a chance to play it. I think a point has been appearing in recent threads that our formation doesn't fit our players, or get the most out of them. Ruud needs a partner near him who can play him in. Giggs and Beckham are best played wide. Butt plays best deep, but so does Veron, leaving us without an attacking midfielder or who can charge forward with the ball playing one twos or through balls. Butt and Scholes in a 4-4-2 would work. Funnily enough, its worked very well in the past.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Neil, while I fully agree with what you said I still feel p***ed off of not getting a fourth striker. Yes, Ruud does need some support and smeone in the Yorke mould may just do it..Maybe Forlan is just what we need. And now that Keano is off maybe JSV could try and play the attacking role as he used to with Lazio.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by sunny:
<strong>

Neil, while I fully agree with what you said I still feel p***ed off of not getting a fourth striker. Yes, Ruud does need some support and smeone in the Yorke mould may just do it..Maybe Forlan is just what we need. And now that Keano is off maybe JSV could try and play the attacking role as he used to with Lazio.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Since Veron can't shoot or beat a player I don't think he'd be much good at it, he likes to sit deep and spray long overhit passes around.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
Since Veron can't shoot or beat a player I don't think he'd be much good at it, he likes to sit deep and spray long overhit passes around.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Seeing the ways he runs back and tackles and looses the ball just outside the penalty area, this is probably more risky
Click to expand...
 
Dans,

Sometimes I think he plays the 4-4-2 to keep Ole happy actually. <hr></blockquote>

You're kidding, right?

If he played 4-5-1 every week you'd have to bench Ruud at some point and much as I think Ole is a great player I think Ruud is far better suited to playing a lone striker role than Ole is <hr></blockquote>

I beg to differ.

Ole's a much better targetman than Ruud at present!

Ruud for all his height & size, loses the ball all too easily.

He falls all too easily.

He cannot head on the ball, just like Andrew Cole.

And he's missing sitters which he gobbled up last season - thank goodness the ref blew on Ehiogu as Ruud again embarrassingly blasted the ball over with only the keeper to beat - how many times has he missed from that kind of opportunity already this season? ( Is he going to be an Andrew Cole Reincarnation? ) :eek:

Ole, on the other hand, jumps very well for his size. He doesn't lose the ball all that often & has shown how well he can lay the ball ( was it his pass that led to Giggs' goal vs Sunderland? )

He was 2nd in assists for United last season - 9!

How many did Ruud assist?

And remember how well he led the line as sole striker during Dec 2000/Jan 2001 when he played 7 consecutive games & scored 6 ?

Between Ole & Ruud, I'd go for Ole everytime, unless Ruud shows a vast improvement on his ball control & heading! ( & his timing so as not to get off-side so many times in a match, which to be fair, he's improved over the last 2 games! )
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
It was tongue in cheek mate.

As for the Ruud Ole comparison, I think Ruud's control is a lot better than people are giving him credit for. He holds up the ball well and when surrounded by 2 or 3 defenders he shows good skill for a big man in getting away from them and laying the ball off. I haven't seen him heading the ball enough to be able to compare the two to be honest.

As for missing sitters, Ole has missed his fair share this season too. They both need to find some form and we'll be laughing.
 
Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>It was tongue in cheek mate.

As for the Ruud Ole comparison, I think Ruud's control is a lot better than people are giving him credit for. He holds up the ball well and when surrounded by 2 or 3 defenders he shows good skill for a big man in getting away from them and laying the ball off. I haven't seen him heading the ball enough to be able to compare the two to be honest.

As for missing sitters, Ole has missed his fair share this season too. They both need to find some form and we'll be laughing.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Agreed. Quite frankly to critice Ruud after what he did last season is mental.
Click to expand...
 
I agree about Ole's drop in form from his very high standards this season but to say he misses
his fair share <hr></blockquote> is doing injustice to our most gifted natural scorer! Ole will never miss the kind of numerous opportunities gifted & missed by Ruud!

Don't get me wrong - I'd love Ruud to be a world-beater & score lots of goals - it'll serve the purposes of United well - it's just that it's not happening now!

PS - I always will for Ruud to hold the ball well & lay off beautiful passes - it's just that I get disappointed because he just doesn't - not constantly enough at least!
Click to expand...
 
I said he's missed his fair share (in relation to Ruud) THIS SEASON.

As for Ruud and his ability to control, hold up and lay off the ball we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
I said he's missed his fair share (in relation to Ruud) THIS SEASON <hr></blockquote>

Yes, I know that & was comparing their misses this season! ;)

As for Ruud and his ability to control, hold up and lay off the ball we'll have to agree to disagree. <hr></blockquote>

OK! :D
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
&gt; Away from home?

Not sure experimenting/learning a new system in the qtr finals against Bayern Munich or in a crunch away game against the Arse is wise!
 
Who are you replying to nickm? Try the reply with quote option.
 
A partner for Ruud must be found. To see him battling for the ball alone with two centre backs on him is disheartening to say the least. Ruud should play with Ole, Paul or Diego, although the latter doesn't seem to know what role to play when he comes on - I wonder if Fergie knows ? At presnet there doesn't seem any understanding between any of them - a real problem it seems.
 
Don't worry too much guys. It seems to me that we are beginning to iron our the defensive frailties that damaged us so much last season. Even though we haven't been scoring freely so far this season (with one or two exceptions), we have been much more solid than the start of last season. As a result, we don't have the added pressure from continual media scrutiny of our defense.

Whatever the formation, with the players that we have, we will score goals. Yes, I do agree that RVN needs a partner up front.. but one thing at a time eh? I'd rather see our defense build up a good defensive record in the next few games first, because it would give us much more confidence when we go into tough games knowing that our defence would not be broken down so easily.
 
Just got back from the official site and nothing about the Lone Striker issue...

I for one would like to hear something from Fergie other than Rio's blah blah blah on patience
"the goals will come".

Besides he's a fricking defender...Why does he get front page story on the official web site on goal making?

Sure sounds a bit like the boys in the front office are getting concerned about it too.
Not even being able to get a midfielder to say something on the subject. :p
 
Originally posted by sunny:
<strong>

Seeing the ways he runs back and tackles and looses the ball just outside the penalty area, this is probably more risky</strong><hr></blockquote>

Veron is a pure playmaker. His best position is behind the forward and attacking midfielders where he can act as a hub to collect and distribute the ball, pulling strings from there. His lack of speed and dribbling make him not a good player to play too up front.
Click to expand...
 
Im sorry to be a Victor Meldrew ( that famous United fan ) but i cant see the point in playing Veron at all....he seems to give maybe 2 brilliant 50 yard passes per game and then sits back as if to admire what he has just done....the guy is clearly not a fighter or indeed seems to give a damn about United.....the season before he arrived we had a midfield of Giggs, Keane, Scholes, Beckham.....with a back up of Butt and the promising Michael Stewart....that will do for me.....it has it all, aggression ( keano and Butt) Pace ( Giggsy ) Imagination and craftiness ( scholes ) and killer passes ( Beckham) we dont need Veron we need a Mark Hughes type player upfront who has the muscle to hold things up so Ruud can be played in.
 
Originally posted by Upfront:
<strong> we need a Mark Hughes type player upfront who has the muscle to hold things up so Ruud can be played in.</strong><hr></blockquote>

:( Not many of those around.

Sparky seems to be held in high regard by everyone - but let's not forget that he was more often than not the player to be benched for European games, and didn't always get the nod in the PL either.

His name certainly wasn't the first on the team-sheet, and it would have been interesting to see what the opinions would have been if this forum had existed then.
Click to expand...
 
I think to most ppl its pretty obvious that RVN doesnt like being alone up front, he just isnt that kind of striker, RVNs best partner was sold when he shouldnt have been, and that was Dwight Yorke.

Fergie needs another Yorke/Cantona/Sheringham type player to work with Ruud.
 
Originally posted by Jason F:
<strong>I think to most ppl its pretty obvious that RVN doesnt like being alone up front, he just isnt that kind of striker, RVNs best partner was sold when he shouldnt have been, and that was Dwight Yorke.

Fergie needs another Yorke/Cantona/Sheringham type player to work with Ruud.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, I think it's obvious to everyone that Fergie should have sold Ole prior to 31st August, in order to fund such a buy.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Jason F:
<strong>RVNs best partner was sold when he shouldnt have been, and that was Dwight Yorke.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Someone else who can't get their head out of 1999.

Do you remembe Yorke going three months without scoring a goal? He had one excellent season, then one less excellent but not bad.

And that's it.
Click to expand...
 
Liv, do you think then that Ole and Ruud are the ideal partnerships for all types of games? Even against packed defenses?
 
OK we all acept that we need another striker, one that can hold up the ball. A la Hughes but who?
Who is around at the moment that you think could fill that role.
Be realistic, remember we have paid out over £65 million since we last won anything. i.e no major prize money.
Can anyone from within the Man Utd current playing staff fill the role?
 
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>Liv, do you think then that Ole and Ruud are the ideal partnerships for all types of games? Even against packed defenses?</strong><hr></blockquote>

with the players we have, IMO the solution to packed defences lies out on the training pitch. great players should have the ability to add an extra string to their bow and to come together to form a collective strategy in the face of obstacles like this. :p
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>Liv, do you think then that Ole and Ruud are the ideal partnerships for all types of games? Even against packed defenses?</strong><hr></blockquote>


No. Nothing should be set in concrete. We need variety, both in personnel and in style of play.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>


No. Nothing should be set in concrete. We need variety, both in personnel and in style of play.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The thing about 99 was if Yorke and Cole weren't on form, then we just did a double swap and brought on Sheringham and Ole. That was scary for the opposition, confidence boosting for us, and changed the type of attack too. It made us unpredictable and hard to handle.
Click to expand...
 
In relation to the striker we need, well we probably dont have the cash to fund any major signings, someone like Totti, Lopez would nicely, Matt Jansen could do ok but he isnt really OT quality just yet.

I stil think we should have grabbed Litmanen on the free when he was available.
 
I think the lone striker situation at the moment is not working!!! Thats not not say say it cant work. The benifits of this system working totally out weigh the negatives!!!!!! But Paul Scholes has to be a bit more selfish. The other four midfielders behind him can handle it!! He needs to cause more problems for the other sides
defence, rarther than tracking thier attack. But when this works..... God is it going to be special!!! You would have four of the worlds best midfielders inter-changing, leaving giggs un-markable!!!! p.s veron is class!!!
 
If Fergie insists on the lone striker formation, perhaps he should have seen the Norway v Denmark game where Ole played as sole striker in a 4-4-1-1 formation & led the line superbly, winning heading duels, laying beautiful passes ( one of which was a genius pass to allow Riise to equalise at 0-1 down! ) If the receivers of his through balls were any sharper ( main culprit being Riise who missed 2 other Ole through passes & seems to play better for Liverpool ), Norway wud have been comfortable winners instead of fighting for a draw!

Ole even pressurised the Danish defenders time & again which led him to intercept defenders' passes 3-4 times & successfully tackle defenders another 2-3 times, one such robbing the defender in the box, which resulted in another defender flattening him, a penalty if there ever was one except that the ref was Hugh Gallager!

The only thing Ole didn't do was score - & not through lack of trying, having 2 shots saved by the keeper & another 2 missed half-chances.

in the meantime, poor Ruud had another 'quiet' game playing for Holland against Belarus, which led to him being subbed!

Ole's led the line successfully b4 on numerous occasions, so maybe it's about time Fergie relied on him again - or did Ole cost too little? :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>Who are you replying to nickm? Try the reply with quote option.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I thank you!

(Didn't know you could do that...)
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.