wait that´s not enough
closer
almost
now it´s appropriate
FC Bayern 17/18 discussion
- Thread starter schwalbe
- Start date
Well, that's what you get for firing your coach two months into the new season and not after last year's campaign.
Nobody on the market and/or deemed good enough so Hoeness calls in another favour from his buddy.
Jupp hasn't coached in 4.5 years, never was a tactically genius and is over-hyped because of the treble. Don't get me wrong, he did a really good job, but Bayern was in complete revenge-mode and after blood after the Chelsea CL-disaster. They also played quite badly at the beginning of the season, got lucky against Juve with an early away goal off of a deflection and were lucky that Kroos got injured so Jupp could play Müller and Robben together.
It was great, but also fortunate and in no way THE coaching masterclass.
Every Bayern supporter loves Jupp (me included), but mostly for sentimental reasons and it will be a tough season
Nobody on the market and/or deemed good enough so Hoeness calls in another favour from his buddy.
Jupp hasn't coached in 4.5 years, never was a tactically genius and is over-hyped because of the treble. Don't get me wrong, he did a really good job, but Bayern was in complete revenge-mode and after blood after the Chelsea CL-disaster. They also played quite badly at the beginning of the season, got lucky against Juve with an early away goal off of a deflection and were lucky that Kroos got injured so Jupp could play Müller and Robben together.
It was great, but also fortunate and in no way THE coaching masterclass.
Every Bayern supporter loves Jupp (me included), but mostly for sentimental reasons and it will be a tough season
Apart from the more dynamic style, they are having a real solid defense again. Should be 6-0 by now.
So Carlo was the problem.
Celtic are unbelievably shit though. Let's keep our dicks in our pants for the time being.
I loves Ancelotti and I hate that he failed, but it does indeed seem he wasn’t suited for us.
Even if Carlo wad still the manager they would have no trouble with Celtic
That is not it. It is not about the result of this match - it is all the mechanisms you see in the team. You know how Heynckes works and you know that they will improve and that the players will feel well with it. It just feels a lot different.
I remember Bayern under Jupp in 2013. They were so good to watch.
Best Bayern team I have ever seen, by far. He killed Tiki-Taka. For some reason, we phased him out to bring the guy in who made that style famous, to subsequently lose all important games to the very tactic our former coach brought up to counteract it.
True, Freiburg and Celtic games prove nothing. We have to wait and see how we perform against Leipzig, Dortmund and PSG.
sigh.
The past one-and-a-half years had plenty of matches against not-so-strong teams which were underwhelming. The FB and Celtic-Matches showed that the team can perform´and offer exciting football again. Its no proof we are back on our way to the elite, but definitely an indicator.
Heynckes reactivated a formation with 4 defenders and two defensive midfielders, which leaves the attacking formation one player short when compared to what Pep, for one, favored.
The schedule with RB, BVB and PSG will show how well that works against higher quality teams.
Fixed that for you. Neither RB nor BVB are true yardsticks. Leipzig we've pummeled even under Carlo, and this Bosz-BVB is a massive fraud, as it has been shown whenever Dortmund met some sort of quality opposition this season.
Still, I'm convinced we are going to see a decent season from our team after all.
I remember when we faced you in 2013. You did look a beast at The Emirates, a truly invincible team. Solid at the back and amazing upfront.
And then we almost screwed it up back home. We didn't even master BATE in that season.
They are an upgrade over Freiburg and Celtic and are well capable to exploit the lack of cohesion between midfield and defense against fast couterattacks.
Let's not start THAT debate again, shall we?The most frustrating part is that he actually thinks Pep plays Tiki Taka. Tiki Taka is the last thing Pep actually wants to play.
I really don't care what you want to call his high defense line, endless ball passing style. It sucked for us because the guy has zero tactical flexibility. It's either his way or none. You might as well call his three season the lost years in retrospective. We never even came close to archievng anything after just winning the Champions League with one of the most convincing campaigns ever.
I've already noticed the cultists have taken the opportunity to tell us all how we just can't appreciate his genius because he now looks good in comparison to one of the most tactically inept coaches we ever had.
Is it normal for you to go Pluralis Majestatis for self-reference? Also, better abstain from labelling a disagreeing majority "cultists", when your crusade against that certain Spaniard is of unparalleled zealotry.
On this forum? Sure. Outside in the real world? Nope.
In other competitions it was not that way. It was just in this CL matches in the final stages in which he did not show the needed flexibility. Than he tried to play FC Baycelona again whereas I thought that in other matches you really saw a very flexible system - with sure his trademark but more adapted to the Bayern players' strengths.
The only real important match right now is the match against Leipzig in the Cup match - and not losing against in Glasgow. Heynckes does not have much chances on specific training even if you already see his fingerprint and how players and a lot of the surroundings improve. He cannot get them into full fitness (and yes, that is what lacked with Ancelotti, too) in some days. At the end of the match you saw that again. You see how everybody does defensive shifts again - Robben did a couple of long sprints backwards yesterday - even was seen as a 6 once.
The job in autumn is to get the team into a good starting position for the rest of the season. Getting first or second in the CL group. Surviving the first cup rounds and stay in the competition for the bundesliga title.
Those 'lost years' will go down in history as some of the best seasons FC Bayern ever had.
If you call it Tiki Taka it just proves that you simply don't understand Pep's football at all. You don't have to like it, but trying to understand it would be nice. You simply don't understand how Pep's football works and why he sets up the way he does.
In the Celtic game, Thiago played much, much higher than Rudy though, and against the ball, which is usually when we distinguish 'formations', he sometimes pressed up front with Lewandoski, higher than even Müller, Coman, Robben.
I didn't watch Pep's Bayern week-in-week-out but his City team don't really play like his Barca. City sit a little deeper and don't press as high up the pitch but more centrally. Then it's all about the speed in transition after they win the ball. They're blistering. That's the biggest difference and their biggest weapon.
Pep's Bayern 15/16 played very differently to Pep's Bayern 13/14, too.
Yeah, bit of a mental comment. Obviously Guardiola was handed a superb squad and anything less than winning the Bundesliga would've been an absolute failure, but people forget the CL's sometimes a really fecking difficult competition to win, and that even the best sides can go a half-decade or so without one.
You're suffering from AFD-"Wir sind das Volk"-syndrome. No, outside in the "real world" there isn't a majority of Bayern fans labelling the Guardiola spell as "the lost seasons" either. That's just a bunch of very vocal..shall I say cultists?!
The issue I had with Pep was away from home in Europe for Bayern his record was piss poor. Even if you discount the three semi finals away from home, which they didn't even score in.
I mean he drew with Moysey at Old Trafford, whilst during that month Liverpool and City gave us a beating. He had a unwanted record of not winning in 9 away knockout games in a row. He couldn't beat Shaktar, Benfica and Porto. He also lost to Arsenal in the group stages I believe. Those are teams that Bayern team should be swatting at any stadium.
So I can see why people say he wasn't tactically flexible as he certainly wasn't away from home for Bayern. I've seen signs of him changing that for City especially away from home against Barca.
Your evidence for that is just as anecdotal as mine, but at least I‘m actually living in Bavaria.
And „cultist“ is a word reserved for people who can’t admit their leaders failure. But hey, it‘s always been: injuries, bad luck, the weather, the referee etc etc...
I really wonder why it is so hard for you guys to admit that in the CL, he was a utter tactical failure. In 3 years, the only team of stature we got past was Juventus. Laughable.
His pressing is a joy to watch. It also possibly means that Vidal might not be first-choice anymore. Thiago and Martînez/Rudy seems a much more balanced duo at the moment.
So how have Bayern looked since the Italian job finished? Is there a marked difference in their play? Anything in particular of note?
There have been visible improvements, whether this is just down to the poor opposition only time will tell. We went back to a 4-2-3-1 with Martinez as a DM, that change definitely helped Müller but the biggest difference is probably that the players seem to actually give a feck.
Well I suspect that, at a minimum, the trainings are being run differently
Much improved, yet real tests are still to be had - upcoming matches against Leipzig and Dortmund will be interesting.
Obviously.
Uninspired design and lack of intensity in training was IMO the deciding complaint lodged against Carlo, and ultimately the reason for his failure.
Obviously, Jupp will have to live with those consequences as well. Lewandowski looks unfit and sluggish, Vidal looks unfit and sluggish.
In retrospective, analysing Ancelotti's tenure and the decisions made during it, we have to ask ourselves whether letting Clement go just like that in mid season was an acceptable decision. I would speculate that with him, much of the effort into training exercises went away too.
Hard to tell. I don't think Rudy's performances so far justify him starting over the competition, though of course he's faithful to position unlike the others maybe.
Vidal, as I wrote, looks unfit and this is of course deadly for his type of game, where timing in challenges and hustling energy make all the difference.
The good thing about all this is that of course Jupp is the one who made Vidal into a top player, after all, so he should definitely also be regarded as a good coach to revive a struggling Vidal.
Vidal needs to show some fitness and focus before he can claim a starting spot again. I've the feeling that with the end of this Chilean generation, he lost a bit of desire. Hopefully it's just the temporary lack of motivation.
Heynckes ia certainly the best coach to get him back on track. Same goes for many other players like Boateng or Martinez.
Heynckes ia certainly the best coach to get him back on track. Same goes for many other players like Boateng or Martinez.