Fantasy Tournament: World Cup All-Time All-Stars

How do you not start debates better left for the games when you give your opinion loud and clear about games, ffs :lol: . It completely sucks for the managers because they could feel the need to react to your comments in some cases. Completely disagree about the Fergus - Annah match. Annah has some serious quality in the team, I don't know all his players that well, so he probably has a bit of work to do to convince the voters and Fergus has a brilliant core in his team, but it's as open as every other match, imo. It's just a huge clash of completely different styles.

I didn't point to specifics or anything, just mentioned I felt Fergus looked stronger. If anything, Annah will be relieved to have seen how much support he got from many on here.

I agree his main challenge will be that some key players need some major selling/pitching, so he may as well get started!
 
Aye, as a post-72 European winner, he did suffer badly with the restrictions.

And the number of teams going wingerless!

The odd thing is that should have made him MORE attractive. The beauty of his role in '82 was instead of playing two wingers Italy just had him going right or left according to the game, rival, mood, etc. That would have been a handy ploy for some of those sides. I'm stunned, really. So simple, so effective, and completely overlooked.
 
I didn't point to specifics or anything, just mentioned I felt Fergus looked stronger. If anything, Annah will be relieved to have seen how much support he got from many on here.

I agree his main challenge will be that some key players need some major selling/pitching, so he may as well get started!
I don't mind your post in general, but with the Fergus - Annah game your opinion sounded so strong that I could see it influencing others and I believe statements like that really should be left for the games, because they need explanation and the chance for the manager to react. I'm sure that wasn't your intention, but it really was unnecessary in my opinion (and in combination with your comment about not starting a debate really strange). For all the other games you made some funny remarks with pointing out where the strengths of the teams lie or what's special about the idea behind the team, with that one game, it was completely different.
 
Surprised Henry and Rensenbrink weren't picked too
The restrictions :(

I really tried to fit Rensenbrink in, but it never worked without sacrificing too much somewhere else.
 
Surprised Henry and Rensenbrink weren't picked too


Rensenbrink was a great player indeed. Henry I understand though, the striker slots were really packed with great talent and whoever hadn't already picked a great striker early probably wanted more of a goal-scorer than the "complete forward" that Henry was.
 
Littbarski was another one for those who needed wide players. WC winner so not easy to get in a side but had a cracking and a very good WC and can play both sides.

Also, love his playing style.
 
Surprised Henry and Rensenbrink weren't picked too

At one point I was thinking about picking Rensenbrink in round 4! :lol: I was certain he would be picked.

Henry is a bit like Rjjkard in terms of WC for me. Likes of Bergkamp and Villa had more chances of being picked than him
 
I don't mind your post in general, but with the Fergus - Annah game your opinion sounded so strong that I could see it influencing others and I believe statements like that really should be left for the games, because they need explanation and the chance for the manager to react. I'm sure that wasn't your intention, but it really was unnecessary in my opinion (and in combination with your comment about not starting a debate really strange). For all the other games you made some funny remarks with pointing out where the strengths of the teams lie or what's special about the idea behind the team, with that one game, it was completely different.

I know, I made that remark because I didn't want to start any sort of controversy but with that game that's all I had to say. TBH, I don't think that would influence anyone, very much the opposite!
 
At one point I was thinking about picking Rensenbrink in round 4! :lol: I was certain he would be picked.

Maybe he would have if things went differently. If Bozsik had been taken I may have moved on to a Netherlands theme and of course had Balu got Neeskens he would have as well. Rensenbrink would have been my Czibor then, clearly. Cracking player.
 
My problem with Rensenbrink was that it meant I had to use pre '72 Southamericans in midfield or defense and I don't know that many quality options, basically none that I would have been comfortable playing and that weren't already picked after 4 or 5 rounds. I discussed a few Brazilian centerbacks with Anto, but I wasn't convinced by anyone. As much as I hated to miss out on Neeskens, I'm quite happy that I was forced to go for Jairzinho / Carlos Alberto that early, because it gave me a lot of options for European post '70 players later. The moment I decided to stick with Cruyff as a false 9 and don't pick a striker, it became all really difficult. Probably would have been easier for Antohan because his knowledge of Southamerican players is clearly superior.

When Forlan was still available as a 7th round pick, I didn't mind that much anymore, I think he fits my idea for the team very well and he played an amazing tournament in 2010. Was surprised no one picked him earlier, I hope he gets the credit he deserves for his performances.
 
I'm of the same mindset as you mate. I don't think there is actually as much need for in game discussions in this draft as there usually is, seeing as World Cup performances are considered I'd say a lot of the hard work is already done.

Upto you mate, I'm off until the 2nd so anytime before nye is good with me.

Others that I was considering: Hassler, Littbarski, Donadoni, Riva, Totti, Bergkamp, Elkjaer

I don't think I he offered enough attacking threat to be seriously considered for my RB slot.



Name any date before NYE that would work for you - any day is fine with me from today and forward.

By the way guys I much prefer not forcing to use this11 or any other site, why can't we just use the one we want?
 
PLAYER PROFILES
Misael Escuti
A respectable third place in the 1962 World Cup being an important part of the Chile defense that kept clean sheets against teams like Italy and West Germany while being solid largely throughout the tournament.​
Bixente Lizarazu
Member of the legendary French defense in the 1998 World Cup that conceded just one goal throughout the tournament from open play. A very strong defender while also capable of providing great width going forward, tons of pace, stamina to go with. A vital component in keeping the defense tight and organized at the back.​
Gaetano Scirea
A true World Cup hero, Scirea led the defense of the national team to their first post war World Cup victory in 1982. An all time great defender, Scirea was the heartbeat of the defensive unit, who like France in 98 are one of the best defenses the World Cup has seen. Knocking out teams like the dangerous Brazil, defending champions Argentina, France and finally European Champions West Germany, Scirea organized the defense against the toughest of opponents and ensured the win against all odds. A wonderful footballer, basically a genius playing in defense, Scirea was usually capable of sensing a danger early and putting out the fire.​
Claudio Gentile
Scirea's partner in crime, a complete contrast as a defender. While Scirea was graceful and intelligent in his defensive play, Gentile was, putting it frankly, a proper thug. Aggressive, strong, and a no nonsense stopper, a perfect foil for Scirea, together they countered numerous threats playing for club and country for years. With the assurance of having someone like Scirea covering him, Gentile has the full license to put in crunching tackles, win aerial battles and rattle his opponents, like he very famously did to a certain Diego Maradona.​
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Tarcisio Burgnich
Like his fellow Italian Gentile, Burgnich was very much a hard man of his time, and the very best one at that. Being the rock in the Italian defense of 1970 that reached the final, Burgnich was an everpresent fixture in some of the most famous defenses of his time. Equally adept at right back and center back, he's as good a defensive fullback as they come.​
Danilo Alvim
Nicknames "The Prince", One of the best holding midfielders in the world at the time he participated in the World Cup 1950, Danilo was the vital pivot in the Brazilian midfield that famously ripped apart every opposition in the tournament before tragically losing in the final at their own backyard. An elegant player on the ball and one who would regularly provide service to the mesmerizing attack of Zizinho, Jair and Ademir, Danilo biggest strengths lied in defense nous, reading of the game and tactical understanding that allowed him to successfully counter the opposition threat and convert defense into attack in an instant. It is certain that had Brazil not lost the lost game and won the tournament, he would have been regarded a lot highly as he contributed immensely throughout the tournament.​
Nobby Stiles
I believe not much is required to tell about him. A united legend, he participated for England in the 1966 World Cup where he was immense in his central midfield role and provided the steel and great man marking ability, including the very famous game against Portugal where he man marked the Great Eusebio. He ended the tournament as a champion.​
Michael Ballack
The German midfielder showed his class in two World Cups, 2002 and 2006 and was incredibly vital to the team in both of them. Carrying the otherwise lackluster team in 2002 with his individual brilliant till the semi final where he was unluckily ruled out from the final and taking upon his much favoured box to box role and dominating the oppositions in 2006, Ballack is definitely a modern WC great. 3 goals and 4 assists in the former from his more attacking role ensure that he was not just the engine but also very productive and effective.​

Nándor Hidegkuti
The Hungarian genius, Hidegkuti was the heartbeat of The Mighty Magyars in the 1954 WC where they reached the final and were favourites to win the tournament. A highly talented and creative player, Hidegkuti often provided world class movement, passing and invention to open up the toughest of defenses and making the job of those around him a lot easier. One of the best number 10s the World Cup has seen.​
Mario Kempes
Beginning the hat trick of Golden Ball Winners in the team, we start with the Argentine Mario Kempes. A very versatile, hard working and explosive forward, Kempes was the star of the 1978 WC that his team won. The attack revolved around him, and it was his individual brilliance as well as his teamwork, tenacity, workrate and consistency throughout the tournament that made him the deserved winner of the award. He can be at comfort up front, behind the striker or as a left attacking role. A very complete player who is bound to contribute in multiple ways.​

Garrincha
It is said, that only two men can take the credit of single handedly winning the WC for their country. One is Diego Maradona, and the other is this unstoppable winger called Garrincha. A 2 time WC champion, while he burst onto the scene in 1958 and alongside Pele and Didi, gave the nation the title, it was 1962 when Garrincha took it upon himself in the absence of Pele, and mesmerized the tournament audience. He was the joint top scorer while playing as a winger, and gave many assists throughout the tournament thanks to his well known unstoppable dribbling and crossing. Easily the best player of the tournament, he'd be hard to stop for any opposition.​

Romário
And the third Golden Ball Winner, the Brazilian was the outstanding player in the 1994 World Cup, driving his team to their 4th WC title. 5 goals in the tournament, Romario formed a strong partnership with Bebeto and led the team from the front. At his peak during that time, the forward was too hot to handle for most defenses and required a historic performance from the Italian Franco Baresi to keep him out in the final.​
 
If nothing has changed (seems like no one decided to play their game before new year), we have the following schedule:

With ...
1st round
Match 1,2 - 7 Jan
Match 3,4 - 8 Jan
Match 5,6 - 9 Jan
Match 7,8 - 10 Jan

... and the draw ...
So it's
  1. Rpitroda
  2. Cutch
  3. Balu/NM
  4. TITO
  5. Theon
  6. Gio
  7. Jayvin
  8. Anto
  9. Cal
  10. Desert
  11. Crappy/Pippa
  12. Paceme
  13. Fergus
  14. Annah
  15. Pol
  16. Aldo
... we have:

Jan 7th:
Rpitroda vs Cutch
Balu vs TITO

Jan 8th:
Theon vs Gio
Jayvin vs Anto

Jan 9th:
Cal vs Desert
Crappy&Pippa vs Paceme

Jan 10th:
Fergus vs Annah
Pol vs Aldo

@Polaroid
Maybe you could edit the schedule into the opening post as well, in case someone is looking for it?
 
Ok Cheers, wasn't sure if anyone had agreed to play before the 7th.

Gonna post my player profiles up in a bit.
 
Player Profiles
Antonio Carbajal
Represented Mexico at 5 World Cups. Made his international debut in the Maracana Stadium 1950 against hosts Brazil. He was the youngest goalkeeper to play in that tournament, At the 1962 World Cup in Chile, he became the first footballer ever to appear in four World Cups. Four years later Carbajal established another mark with his fifth World Cup appearance.

Karl-Heinz Schnellinger
A world class left back who could tuck in and play centrally (like Maldini) and played 9 years for AC Milan. So fits in well to the left of Baresi. He was renowned for his physical power, pace and winning mentality. Appeared in 4 World Cups & is down in the annals of World Cup history by scoring one of its most dramatic goals, a last minute equalizer in West Germany’s semi-final against Italy in Mexico 1970, known as the "Game of the Century”

Franco Baresi
Perhaps the greatest defender of all time. Named in the team of the tournament at Italia 90 but was equally impressive during USA ’94 and the World Cup Final v Brazil. A leader & supreme organizer of the back four. A technically gifted footballer capable of taking control of the ball and instigating attacks from deep, which will help control possession.

Roberto Perfumo
Considered to be one of the best South American defenders of all time & often features in all-time Argentine XI’s. Played his best at the 1966 World Cup where he marshalled a solid & resolute back line -which included the likes of Marzolini - before getting controversially knocked out by England in the Quarter Finals. A Rock-steady stopper centre back, Strong in the air & a ruthless man marker. An excellent partner for Baresi.

Javier Zanetti
Zanetti is much admired and certain to go down as one of the finest Argentine players ever. Nicknamed “The Tractor” where his strength, resilience, stamina and ability to run past opposing defenders when joining the attack from his right back position earned him admiration. A personal favourite moment of France ’98 was his beautifully worked goal vs. England in the knock out stages.

Marco Tardelli
The greatest Italian defensive midfielder of all time, best remembered for his iconic goal celebration in the 1982 World Cup Final vs Germany. Mentally tough and loved a battle. Was a monster in the tackle but also possessed fine technical ability, as well as being a scorer of vital goals.


Cerezo
A world class defensive midfielder & integral part of the great Brazil side of 1982. Was handed too much defensive burded looking after the back four whilst the likes of Zico, Socrates & Falcao powered forward. (Not the case in this side.) Tough & tireless. Can stick his foot in & is suited to the diamond as he often played as a right sided CM with his distribution skills in good effect.

Paul Gascoigne
Gazza was the star of Italia ’90. For all his gifts (and flaws) he brought everything to the table. Apart from stereotypical English traits like toughness, pace & determination, Gascoigne possessed incredible technically skills. Able to dribble and beat defenders, shoot with either foot or drive a team forward. During the summer of 1990 he played like a man possessed. Forever loved - for the Genius & the heart-break.
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Sir Bobby Charlton
One of the greatest midfielders of all time & a true master of the World Cup. Pivotal to the winning England team in ‘66. Was the difference in the Semi-Final vs Eusabio’s Portugal, out performing the big striker & scoring the two decisive goals. In the final he affectively marked Beckenbauer out of the game as England won the World Cup. Golden Ball winner & named in the team of the tournament both in 1966 and 1970.


Paolo Rossi
Both hero & fairy tale story of 1982. In terms of World Cup strikers, there’s few better. Only three players have ever been voted the best player at a World Cup and the second best player at another World Cup - Pele, Ronaldo and Paolo Rossi. Has the ability to play target man or goal poacher. Lethal in the air or on the floor.



Vavá
Twice World Cup winner with Brazil in 1958 & 1962. Named in the Team of the tournament in 1962 and Golden Boot winner in 1962. Vavá scored in the final of both 1958 (twice) and 1962 (once), thus becoming the first player to score in the final of two different World Cups. A big game player who also scored a brace in the Semi-final win in ’62. Offers brilliant movement & technique for his team-mates.
 
Gonna post my player profiles up in a bit.

Will do the same later today. Quality team, still not very happy to play against you, mainly because I hoped to face someone with less impressive fullbacks, but it should make for quite a lot of interesting tactical discussions, wingplay vs midfield, no striker vs 2 strikers, should be fun.
 
Will do the same later today. Quality team, still not very happy to play against you, mainly because I hoped to face someone with less impressive fullbacks, but it should make for quite a lot of interesting tactical discussions, wingplay vs midfield, no striker vs 2 strikers, should be fun.

Yeah, should be good mate. Hoping my strikers get their due, since it's a world cup draft otherwise I'm in trouble. Especially Rossi.

Your flanks worry me no matter who my full backs are. Very strong. To have the Brazil right flank of 1970 is great work.
 
If nothing has changed (seems like no one decided to play their game before new year), we have the following schedule:

With ...


... and the draw ...

... we have:

Jan 7th:
Rpitroda vs Cutch
Balu vs TITO

Jan 8th:
Theon vs Gio
Jayvin vs Anto

Jan 9th:
Cal vs Desert
Crappy&Pippa vs Paceme

Jan 10th:
Fergus vs Annah
Pol vs Aldo

@Polaroid
Maybe you could edit the schedule into the opening post as well, in case someone is looking for it?

Thanks Balu, appreciate your initiative, I have updated the OP :)

Quality teams by Aldo and TITO, will be a cracker of a 1st round. This has to be the strongest pool of managers assembled for a fantasy draft, they have done proper homework and their knowledge shows. I would say there are a couple of managers who have drafted better than I did :)
 
Player Profiles

Gilmar

Brazil's greatest goalkeeper of all time and two time world cup winner in '58 & '62. He didn't concede a single goal in his first 4 world cup games and his calm presence was highly influential in Brazil finally having a strong defensive foundation to count on. Unusually for a goalkeeper he wore the number 3 shirt in '58, but he was undoubtly the number one in Brazil's first ever worldcup win.

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Silvio Marzolini

The outstanding leftback of the tournament in '66. His performances lead to the British Press voting him the best player of the group stages after games against Spain, Switzerland and West Germany. Often praised for his incredible attacking skill and ability on the ball, he was also a crucial part of a rocksolid defense that only conceded twice in 4 games, one of those goals after being down to 10 men against the eventual winners England.

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Franco Baresi

One of the greatest defender of all time, often remembered for his heroics in the final in '94 with the tragic ending when he missed the penalty, but he had an equally impressive tournament in '90. Besides his individual brilliance, he's perfect in my team because no one ever organised a high defensive line better than him. Click here for a compilation of his performances at the worldcup in Italy.

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Karl-Heinz Schnellinger

A worldclass defender for more than a decade, who started out as a left back. After his first 5 years at Milan he took over as the central defender for Germany at the worldcup '70, who organised the defense with Beckenbauer still playing in midfield. His standout moment came in the semifinal against Italy when his last minute equaliser gave us one of the most dramatic extratimes football has ever seen in what is still refered to as the 'Game of the century'.

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Carlos Alberto

He was voted the greatest right-back of the 20th century in 2000 and it's still impossible to find a better player for his position. Wonderful smart player and strong defender with incredible technique. He not only captained the greatest nationalteam of all time, he also scored a wonderful goal to end that magical tournament in 1970, a goal that tells you almost everything you need to know about what made Brazil that year so brilliant.



This makes me very, very happy as well.

Arie Haan

In his book 'Brilliant Orange' about Dutch football, David Winner called him the most underrated player of the golden generation in the 70's. A player can't typify total football more than him. When he came to the worldcup in '78, he had already played as a defensive midfielder, libero, playmaker and striker, and he did it all successfully. He made sure everyone knew how successfully, when he said “Cruyff may have been the best, but I won more. And that’s what football is about.” For his standout worldcup moment, his incredible long-range goal against Italy in '78, click here.

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Edgar Davids

There were two outstanding moments in his worldcup in '98 and how different they are reflect perfectly what a brilliant tournament he had as a box to box midfielder contributing in defense and attack; his last minute winning goal against Yugoslavia in the first knockout round and his incredible run back to deny Ronaldo a goal in the semifinal against Brazil. Let's hope he doesn't need to do the latter in the upcoming games, good to know he could though.

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Mario Kempes

Joining the team for the next game, I'm happy to quote his former manager's description of him, I couldn't put it better myself than Aldo did:
'A very versatile, hard working and explosive forward, Kempes was the star of the 1978 WC that his team won. The attack revolved around him, and it was his individual brilliance as well as his teamwork, tenacity, workrate and consistency throughout the tournament that made him the deserved winner of the award. He can be at comfort up front, behind the striker or as a left attacking role. A very complete player who is bound to contribute in multiple ways.'



Giuseppe Meazza

Golden Ball winner in Italy's first ever worldcup win and then captained his nationalteam to the first ever worldcup title defence 4 years later. He joins the team to play as an inside left and adds a brilliant mix of creativity, goalscoring and dribbling. There are countless incredible stories about his ability on the ball and even more about his life and his character, so describing him here in short can't do him justice. Instead just enjoy this link about his career for Italy, it's well worth the read.

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Johan Cruyff

The linchpin of one of the most entertaining teams in worldcup history. It's impossible to describe how influential he was to his team, just as it's impossible to pin down his position on a team sheet. While playing as a striker, winger, fullback or central midfielder all during one game, he still found a moment in the game against Sweden to create an individual piece of skill that became known as the Cruyff turn. He never did tricks in training, so good for us, we could watch him create one right infront of us. Sadly he didn't play in another worldcup after an attempt to kidnap his family in '77 lead to him deciding to retire early.

His worldcup '74 in 6 minutes:



Jairzinho

What a tournament he played in 1970, in my opinion the most exciting player to watch in a worldcup full of outstanding attacking talent. Dribbling, running, passing and of course scoring in every one of Brazil's seven games. Wingplay can't be more entertaining to watch than what he showed us that summer.



Substitutes:
Hans-Georg Schwarzenbeck
Beckenbauer's brilliant partner in defense for Germany and Bayern during the most successful part of their careers. You won't find a more disciplined defender who won't get tired to cover for his centerback partner moving forward. Ever reliable and I doubt any German football fan can name more than one mistake of his.​
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Frank de Boer

His worldcup performance in 98 is often remembered for his wonderful pass that lead to Bergkamp's exceptional goal against Argentina. In addition to his brilliance on the ball, he was also one of the standout defenders of that tournament and captained the Netherlands to their best worldcup performance since the seventies.

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Willi Schulz

In 1966 he kept Beckenbauer out of his favorite position, because the team needed a less adventurous player in defense and no one could fill that role better than Willi Schulz. He was known as a tough defender with great positioning and strong tacklings. Because of the effort he put into his performances, he quickly became a fan favorite at home in Germany where people started to call him 'World Cup Willi' after the official mascot of that world cup.

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Jan Ceulemans

What a player. Often underrated because he stayed in Belgium throughout his career, but what a tournament he had in 86 with him captaining Belgium through their greatest time in football so far. At times he was a left winger, at times he played as an AM or as a striker, but most importantly he scored that crucial goal against the Soviet Union which kept them in the tournament and provided us with a lot of entertaining football in the following minutes and games.

For the story of the 'Red Devils' at the worldcup in 86 with Ceulemans at the heart of them, click here.

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Diego Forlán

The Golden Ball winner in 2010 when he was the outstanding player in Uruguay's run to the semifinals. He was the playmaker, goalscorer and leader of the team, scoring some amazing goals on the way. He became the first player since Lothar Matthäus in 1990 to score 3 goals from outside of the box in one tournament and his volley against Germany was voted the goal of the tournament.

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I thought about something like that instead of arrows:

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I doubt it's allowed though :lol: . Still needs a few more Cruyffs, but well, it's a good start. Anto suggested something similar.
 
I'd play Cerezo in the deeper role and swap Tardelli to be there alongside Gascoigne.


I would prefer it in a square, but if sticking with the diamond then I agree it should be Cerezo deeper. I think a square works better though.
 
I would prefer it in a square, but if sticking with the diamond then I agree it should be Cerezo deeper. I think a square works better though.

I agree with Theon - 4-2-2-2 is a better fit
Cerezo seems to be incredibly under-rated in Redcafe though
 
Theon, I might afford myself a wank the day you treat us all to a 4-4-2. What is your gripe with wingers mate? (6-3-1 is the way forward)

He did have a damn good 4-4-2 in the United draft, went down like a lead balloon though even when it was arguably an improvement on our 99 side and very much the same midfield IIRC.
 
He did have a damn good 4-4-2 in the United draft, went down like a lead balloon though even when it was arguably an improvement on our 99 side and very much the same midfield IIRC.

Can't remember that. I only remember Jayvin with Giggs-Beckham-Vieira + 1 (cant remember) which was beautiful but which ultimately didn't get him too far
 
I'll warn you, Cruyff is the most underrated footballer in the history of the Caf
Yeah, I already knew that when I picked him. It's not so different in German football boards and I really don't understand why. When he became a manager, you could often read that brilliant players can't be great managers and therefore he was underrated until his idea of a Barca team finally started to work. Now it seems to be the complete opposite, his importance to the tactical development of the game somehow overshadows his individual ability as a player, at least that's the only explanation I can think of besides the usual ignorance towards players from earlier decades.

Maybe I can change a few opinions on him and if not, it was still a great draft for me, I really like my team and enjoyed watching through footage from all of my players' worldcup performances. And as much as I enjoy watching Cruyff play, I can't stop smiling when I watch him loose the final in '74 :lol:.