Much better, I can now do matches 1-4!
Fantasy Tournament: World Cup All-Time All-Stars
- Thread starter Polaroid
- Start date
Much better, I can now do matches 1-4!
Great, we need a kind observer to help us with the draw
Can run the list below through http://www.random.org/lists/
Pol
Cal
Aldo
Theon
Rip
Paceme
Jayvin
Desert
Annah
Crappy
Fergus
NM
Anto
Gio
Cutch
TITO
Once list is re-generated,
1st name play 2nd, 3rd plays 4th and so on
For QF draw, we will make another draw, keeps the suspense up
Not many forwards picked from the post 70's era. That's really the explanation.
Good to hear that, looking forward to hearing your thoughts for the other matches too
I thought Schillaci was a shoe-in next to Baggio, run out of slots though.
Given the dearth of top wingers this is the one that I find outrageous:
Would have been a very good pick for anyone. Considering the draft limitations on my team and the specific roles I have for Boniek and Zizinho, I had to opt out
Stojkovic, Suker, Bergkamp, Petit, Deschamps and Gattuso were others off the top of my head
By position:
KEEPERS: Not many that could have realistically been picked seeing as most people's problem was pre-74. Máspoli not picked would ahve been ridiculous given some of the others knocking about.
DEFENDERS: Similar situation really once Gerets got picked, how he got overlooked for so long is beyond me. Shame there was no place for Zmuda or Popescu, but understandable. Bossis?
MIDFIELDERS: Ardiles, De Rossi and Deschamps could have been picked but, again post-70 slots were at a premium.
AMs/Creators: Deyna, Giresse, similar issues. Sarosi and Scarone could have been nabbed but their roles are stacked with players.
WINGERS: Conti (shocking), Donadoni, Littbarski and even Muller 2010. All better than Cristiano IMO. Rahn if you needed pre-74.
CFs and thereabouts: Elkjaer-Larsen (my backup if Seeler went, cracking player and World Cup), Schillaci, Klose, Lineker, Suker, Voller, Bergkamp. All better than Messi. Míguez if anyone still needed an oldie.
KEEPERS: Not many that could have realistically been picked seeing as most people's problem was pre-74. Máspoli not picked would ahve been ridiculous given some of the others knocking about.
DEFENDERS: Similar situation really once Gerets got picked, how he got overlooked for so long is beyond me. Shame there was no place for Zmuda or Popescu, but understandable. Bossis?
MIDFIELDERS: Ardiles, De Rossi and Deschamps could have been picked but, again post-70 slots were at a premium.
AMs/Creators: Deyna, Giresse, similar issues. Sarosi and Scarone could have been nabbed but their roles are stacked with players.
WINGERS: Conti (shocking), Donadoni, Littbarski and even Muller 2010. All better than Cristiano IMO. Rahn if you needed pre-74.
CFs and thereabouts: Elkjaer-Larsen (my backup if Seeler went, cracking player and World Cup), Schillaci, Klose, Lineker, Suker, Voller, Bergkamp. All better than Messi. Míguez if anyone still needed an oldie.
Also a Caf favorite, Schweinsteiger. Had a good 2010 tournament. Same as the golden boot winner that year and the all-time leading goalscorer for Spain.
Vieiri was also a contender but ultimately there wasn't a place for his era.
Yeah, I imagined you were in the same place as I was, watching on, seeing an absolute steal of a pick and having no room for them
TBH, had a mare for me in the decades one, and that's with Bayern at full pelt. For some reason people automatically assume any current player other than Messi and Ronaldo is not worthy of this sort of company. You could argue on a tourno basis some of those Spanish defenders could feature here, but nope.
UNDERDOGS UNITED They dreamed, they fought, they gave it their best shot and most ultimately failed, but
every single one of my players made the Team of the Tournament
GOALKEEPER
José Luis CHILAVERT
A formidable presence who managed three cleansheets in normal time out of four games (and conceded the one goal in a 3-1 win in the other). An accomplished sweeper-keeper, his distribution was excellent and a powerful attacking outlet.
His reaction to France’s cruel Golden Goal and the way he picked up his teammates will be forever etched in World Cup folklore.
DEFENDERS
Elías FIGUEROA
"The area is my home, and I decide who enters it"
Figueroa was noted for his elegant style of play, his calmness in the centre of defence and his ability to cut out opposition attacks and immediately launch counterattacks from the back. With a great positional sense and aerially dominant, Figueroa would be remembered by all as one of the best ever had he not turned down Real Madrid and favoured Inter de Porto Alegre (which allowed him to stay in the Chilean NT setup).
- 4 times Best Centre-Half in the World (1974-77)
- 3 times Best Player FROM the Americas (1974-76)
- 2 times World Player of the Year (1975-76)
- Best Centre-half at 1974 FIFA World Cup
- Pelé's nonsense 125 Living Legends
- IFFHS Best South American Defender ever
- IFFHS 8th Best South American Player ever
- IFFHS 37th Best World Player ever (5th among defensive players, third among centre-halves)
Fabio CANNAVARO
Yet another one-man defensive wall and largely responsible for Italy's impenetrable defence in 2006. His imperious performances resulted in him being awarded both the Golden Ball and World Player of the Year in 2006. The captain and his defence conceded only twice during the entire tournament: an own goal vs. the USA and to a Zidane penalty in the final.
Víctor Rodríguez ANDRADE
The best right halfback in the world in the early 50s, or halfback full stop. He played on the left in 1950, both sides in the final and on the right in 1954. The man who kept Zizinho in his pocket and prompted Puskas to declare him the best wide centre-half he had ever seen.
He was a beast defensively and good going forward, but his more natural role would be staying conservatively as support in midfield. That even when he has the pace and stamina to keep coming and going all game long.
You can read more about him here.
Leo JUNIOR
One of the outstanding players in that Brazil ’82 side. Junior surprised the world not just doing the usual Brazilian fullback stuff but also acting as yet another playmaker for that side, from left midfield. Differently from many of his peers, he was conscious of the importance of organisation and tactical discipline and is credited as one of the key role models for Brazil to maintain the pizzaz on the flanks but regain defensive control, which led to their change in fortunes in 1994 and 2002.
Pacey and accomplished on the ball, he is exactly the sort who would revel in that Magyar side. He is also our official Underdog United composer and lead vocalist.
MIDFIELDERS
József BOZSIK
Arguably the finest deep lying playmaker in football history and, as a life-long friend of Ferenc Puskas, their understanding was telepathic.
Rather than make a wrong decision quickly, Bozsik took his time to get it right and his decision making was one of the central strengths to his game. Not only was he able to spot the right pass at the right moment, his technique was impeccable and he had a remarkable ability to choose the right pass, even one few others could see, when placed under even the greatest pressure. His range of passing allowed him to find distant targets, but he was also happy to play the simple ball if it meant retaining possession. Furthermore, he was almost impossible to dispossess as he shielded the ball so well from opponents.
There’s more on him and that side here.
Johan NEESKENS
An instrumental part of the clockwork orange and hugely responsible for keeping it ticking. While Cruyff was the most influential poster boy, Neeskens was the most consistent performer getting both the Silver Boot and Ball.
A very adaptable player who would display aggression and doggedness in defence, and finesse on the ball. When in possession he can reenact Hidegkuti’s role for Hungary in 54, pulling the strings as an advanced playmaker and pulling defences apart with his movement and passing.
Michael LAUDRUP
One of the most underrated players ever. A phenomenal orchestrator who combined the best elements of old-school and modern styles. He was admired for his outstanding technique, elegance, deep passes and dribbling. His trademark move — looking one way and passing the other — fooled countless opponents during his career. His outstanding skills were combined with an immense creativity. He always played the attack in the least obvious way, leaving the defense stranded. Laudrup's teammates said: "Just run, he will always find a way of passing you the ball".
Hristo Stoichkov said:
Franz Beckenbauer said:
Romario said:
While he didn't grace the World Cup at his very peak, we saw him at his devastating best orchestrating the Danish Dynamite's 1986 demolition of Uruguay (Copa winners 83 and 87, 1-0 vs. Argentina, 1-1 vs. Germany, but 6-1 vs. Denmark) and produced a masterclass against Nigeria in 1998.
WINGERS
Alcides GHIGGIA
The man who tormented Brazil and broke their hearts. He destroyed Brazil's left flank providing the only attacking outlet for Uruguay, but the most clearcut source of chances in that game. As Brazil’s main radio pundit concluded at the time “We’ve lost this game because Ghiggia and Pérez were a thorn on that right flank, we never found a solution to it and paid the price”.
Ghiggia’s contribution was not limited to providing the winner and assisting the other goal in the final though. He scored in all four games Uruguay played: the 8-0 demolition of Bolivia, the 2-2 draw with Spain and the 3-2 win against Sweden. Chalk either of those goals out and Uruguay wouldn’t have won the World Cup so that’s three crucial tournament-winning goals along the way. Few other right wingers in history can match that sort of contribution, maybe only one.
More footage from his days at Roma, where he captained the side and was called up for the Azzurri, scoring in the infamous "Battle of Belfast".
Zoltan CZIBOR
Yet another Mighty Magyar and part of the Honved side which was the base of that side. Widely regarded as the best left winger in his day and one of the best of all time. He went into mazing runs dribbling at full pelt, executed accurately when delivering and had a knack for scoring important goals, including a crucial one in the semi and another in the final.
While there are a fair few top performing right wingers in this draft, Czibor is quite comfortably the best of the lot on the left. His most likely challengers would be Rivelino (not really a winger but an AM/pmkr deployed on the left), Conti (bizarrely unpicked) and Ronaldinho (not yet at his best in 02).
FORWARDS
Ferenc PUSKAS
One of the best and most gifted footballers of all time, Puskas is the player the team has been built around. He will start from a deeper position to help with the buildup but when in full attacking flow effectively becomes a second striker with Neeskens holding the reins behind him, along with Bozsik deeper in midfield.
He is in his element here and in a position to turn in the sort of performances that left the world gobsmacked for the best part of a decade.
ROMÁRIO
The outstanding player and Golden Ball winner in the 1994 World Cup, driving his team to their 4th WC title with 5 goals in the tournament and forming a strong partnership with Bebeto, leading the team from the front.
He was at his absolute peak and unplayable at the time, requiring a memorable performance by Franco Baresi to keep him out in the final.
Cruyff said:
Roberto Baggio said:
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This reflects the entire draft to be fair. Müller was the top-scorer and came 2nd? in the assist-league which is absolutely amazing considering he is known for his huge work-rate and defensive abilities.
But people know that the voters will never vote for Müller over Messi/C.Ronaldo/etc so nobody picked them. The same goes for the Spanish side who had one of the best defensive performances in the history(counting goals conceded.).
Still nobody picked them because they know Ramos will be laughed at if he is up against Garrincha.
Think the draft limitations played a part as well
On Roque Maspoli, Brian Gianville has this to say
http://www.theguardian.com/news/2004/feb/25/guardianobituaries.football
In July 1950, the stupendous goalkeeping of Roque Maspoli, who has died aged 86, enabled Uruguay to beat the favourites Brazil and win the World Cup in the Maracana stadium, Rio, in front of 200,000 astonished spectators. Forty-seven years later, at the age of 79, he was put in charge of his country's waning international team, an extraordinary tribute to an icon of the Uruguayan game.
He began as a full-back, made his name as a goalkeeper with one of Uruguay's two main clubs, Nacional of Montevideo, later switched to the other, Penarol, and went on to manage both.
Maspoli was essentially a shot stopper - brave, flexible and immensely agile, with superb anticipation. Like so many continental and south American keepers, he was less effective at dealing with high centres from the wings.
But that performance against Brazil could scarcely have been surpassed. He had played in the initial 8-0 walkover against Bolivia, the only time Uruguay had to play in the preliminary phase. He let in two goals in the final pool, when the Uruguayans drew 2-2 with Spain, but missed the match against Sweden, which Uruguay won 3-2. Such form did nothing to suggest they could contain Brazil, who had scored 13 goals in their two final pool games, against the same opposition as the Uruguayans.
Euphoria was widespread among Brazilian fans. Scarcely anyone heeded the words of Flavio Costa, Brazil's manager: "The Uruguayan team has always disturbed the slumbers of Brazilian footballers. I'm afraid that my players will take the field as though they already had the championship shield sewn on their jerseys. It isn't an exhibition game. It is a match like any other, only harder."
And so it proved. In the early stages, Brazil's dazzling attack, composed of Zizinho, Ademir and Jair, overwhelmed Uruguay's defence. Maspoli made two great saves, and gradually Uruguay's attack came into the game, though in the last few minutes of the first half, it was Maspoli alone who prevented a Brazilian goal.
A couple of minutes into the second half, Ademir and Zizinho skilfully drew the Uruguayan defence towards the left. The consequent cross found Friaca racing in from the right to take the ball in his stride and put Brazil ahead at last. But after 20 minutes, Juan Schiaffino equalised for Uruguay, stunning the enormous crowd. Much of the steam seemed to go out of the Brazilians and, 11 minutes from the end, Chico Ghiggia, the outside-right who had set up Schiaffino's goal, shot the winner.
Uruguay took a powerful squad to Switzerland for the 1954 World Cup finals. Mas- poli did not let in a goal in the two opening pool games, won 2-0 against the Czechs and 7-0 against the Scots, though England, in the quarter finals, were a harder proposition. This time, Maspoli was beaten twice, by Nat Lofthouse and Tom Finney, but the erratic goalkeeping of his opposite number, Gil Merrick, condemned England to a 4-2 defeat and took Uruguay into the semi-finals.
Maspoli had put on weight, and tended to punch away crosses rather than catch them. This proved fatal in the course of a wonderful semi-final match against Hungary, when Sandor "Golden Head" Kocsis headed a couple of late goals to put Uruguay out of the reckoning, 4-2. In the third place match against Austria, Uruguay's disenchanted team lost 3-1.
Retiring as a player, Maspoli became the highly successful manager of his old club, Penarol. In 1966, he took them to the final of the Libertadores Cup, the south American club championship, in which they beat River Plate of Buenos Aires. This qualified them to meet Real Madrid, the formidable European Cup holders, for the so-called intercontinental championship. In Montevideo, Penarol won 2-0, but few expected them to hold out in the return game in Madrid. Instead, they recorded another 2-0 win, and thus became world champions.
In the 1980s, Maspoli spent several years coaching the Uruguay team, before being recalled as national manager in 1997. He is survived by his wife Irene Estramil, and their daughter Irene.
Can you PM somebody to make the draw by the way Pol?
So many people moaning about Cristiano... I've now got an extra midfielder to fiddle around the selection...
Anyway, I maintain that Cristiano 06 is much better than Messi has ever been a any WC.
"Chico Ghiggia", fecking hell. I largely agree. I see how you have bolded his importance, which no one can question (it's a team sport, everyone has to chip in and did so). He made some tremendous saves, particularly in the first 5-10 minutes and late on. The goal was a bit on the soft side, mind, I find it quite disappointing every time I watch that. Doesn't matter, we won!SUBSTITUTES
The best keeper at France 98 will take turns with the best one at Mexico 70 to accommodate any era imbalances along the way.
Ladislao Mazurkiewicz
The man Yashin named as his successor, the one that forced genius moves out of Pelé as he “knew he wasn’t dealing with a normal keeper”. He was immense for Uruguay both in Mexico ’70 and England ’66, where the scoreline against Germany is a function of Uruguay playing with nine for much of the game.
Carlos Gamarra
Another cornerstone of that miserly Paraguayan side which kicked Spain out of France 98 and came closest to kicking out the host (and probably galvanised them after that major struggle). A great leader and organiser in defence, strong and committed in the tackle and aerially, yet managed the rare feat of not giving away a single foul.
Ricardo Carvalho
A classy foil for Gamarra yet not one to lack in determination and defiance. Was the rock Portugal ’06 built a great defensive record around: four clean sheets in six games.
Uwe Seeler
A World Cup Legend if there ever was one. Cracking player, teamplayer and overall nice guy, so much so the 1974 team held him as an honorary squad player. Never has anyone deserved to win a World Cup more than him, but he may have to make do with a draft game on Redcafe.
He was the first player to score in three consecutive World Cups and the only one to score at least twice in four of them. He didn’t score truckloads, but you could rely on him to come up with a goal when it mattered and to create them for others regularly. His height belies the impact his stocky frame and irrepressible energy and will to win had on rival defences. He could be a battering ram like Drogba and execute the knockdowns but also the intricate one twos. Like Hernández, you didn’t want a loose ball anywhere near him… or a cross to find him even when he was running backwards and had to neck it into the goal. Resourceful, generous, deadly, are all good words to describe him.
The best keeper at France 98 will take turns with the best one at Mexico 70 to accommodate any era imbalances along the way.
Ladislao Mazurkiewicz
The man Yashin named as his successor, the one that forced genius moves out of Pelé as he “knew he wasn’t dealing with a normal keeper”. He was immense for Uruguay both in Mexico ’70 and England ’66, where the scoreline against Germany is a function of Uruguay playing with nine for much of the game.
Carlos Gamarra
Another cornerstone of that miserly Paraguayan side which kicked Spain out of France 98 and came closest to kicking out the host (and probably galvanised them after that major struggle). A great leader and organiser in defence, strong and committed in the tackle and aerially, yet managed the rare feat of not giving away a single foul.
Ricardo Carvalho
A classy foil for Gamarra yet not one to lack in determination and defiance. Was the rock Portugal ’06 built a great defensive record around: four clean sheets in six games.
Uwe Seeler
A World Cup Legend if there ever was one. Cracking player, teamplayer and overall nice guy, so much so the 1974 team held him as an honorary squad player. Never has anyone deserved to win a World Cup more than him, but he may have to make do with a draft game on Redcafe.
He was the first player to score in three consecutive World Cups and the only one to score at least twice in four of them. He didn’t score truckloads, but you could rely on him to come up with a goal when it mattered and to create them for others regularly. His height belies the impact his stocky frame and irrepressible energy and will to win had on rival defences. He could be a battering ram like Drogba and execute the knockdowns but also the intricate one twos. Like Hernández, you didn’t want a loose ball anywhere near him… or a cross to find him even when he was running backwards and had to neck it into the goal. Resourceful, generous, deadly, are all good words to describe him.
Considering the lack of quality wingers I still saw Cristiano as one of the better picks of this draft. He was still an absolutely magical dribbler, strong, pacey and great overall play. The only thing the WC Ronaldo lacks is the goal-scoring and decision making.
Of course on the other side one has to question whether it is worth having a player who will most likely not score or assist anything - and who also is poor defensively.
Ronaldo/Messi/Rijkaard will get a lot of free votes from scanvoters so I see the reason people would prefer them over other equally skilled wingers. I wouldn't hold it against someone to play Cristiano, even if I think the majority of "managers" in this draft will.
Luis Cubilla was a far far better sneaky pick at the end. He certainly could have picked Conti as well (e.g. instead of Sneijder, although I have no idea what the story is with Cal?s midfield, he may be necessary).
With those options available to him Cristiano is a sub at best.
With those options available to him Cristiano is a sub at best.
Are you sure about this? Most seem to be using/needing arrows and once you start drawing them on the pic and posting it on tinypic or similar you get all sorts of pitch sizing issues. This11 seems the best/most universal option to address all needs (including playing five at the back without it all looking like you parked a bus in front of goal). And yes, I used to hate it, but can't argue with its advantages.
It looks that way, Gerson is going to be knackered!
Vote for
Pol
Cal
Aldo
Theon
Rpitroda
Paceme
Jayvin
Desert
Annah
Crappy/Pippa
Fergus
Balu
Anto - this11
Gio
Cutch
TITO
- Footballuser (remembers your players, can get overcrowded and difficult to differentiate what players are doing, no arrows) or
- this11 (more accurate, has arrows, shit logo in the middle and doesn't remember your players so you have to type them every time).
Pol
Cal
Aldo
Theon
Rpitroda
Paceme
Jayvin
Desert
Annah
Crappy/Pippa
Fergus
Balu
Anto - this11
Gio
Cutch
TITO
PMed Pat_Mustard, he is usually a keen observer, hope he is around to make the draw
I'm fine with either of the two sites.
However if someone uses the indoor pitch in this11, he is not getting my vote for being insane.
However if someone uses the indoor pitch in this11, he is not getting my vote for being insane.
another vote for this11
Yes!
this11
+1 for this11
Footballuser as I don't plan to have arrows, but don't really mind
Vote for
Cal - footballuser but doesn't mind
Aldo - either way
Theon
Rpitroda
Paceme
Jayvin - this11
Desert
Annah
Crappy/Pippa - this11
Fergus
Balu - this11
Anto - this11
Gio
Cutch
TITO
- Footballuser (remembers your players, can get overcrowded and difficult to differentiate what players are doing, no arrows) or
- this11 (more accurate, has arrows, shit logo in the middle and doesn't remember your players so you have to type them every time).
Cal - footballuser but doesn't mind
Aldo - either way
Theon
Rpitroda
Paceme
Jayvin - this11
Desert
Annah
Crappy/Pippa - this11
Fergus
Balu - this11
Anto - this11
Gio
Cutch
TITO
I prefer no rule on it, just do whatever the manager wants. If I had to vote it'd be this11.
Either one, I'm easy.
Edit, actually this 11.
Comparing pol's two diagrams I find this 11 easier, more realistic.
Edit, actually this 11.
Comparing pol's two diagrams I find this 11 easier, more realistic.
I am gonna PM someone to do the draw