I can feel an epic anto post coming up... 
Fantasy Draft- Chesterlestreet vs Rpitroda
- Thread starter crappycraperson
- Start date
Absolutely love how Chester made it all come together nicely. Every single one of those players has a clear role they excelled at and a team collectively built for everyone to play to the best of their abilities. That front four is quite simply unstoppable. Ronaldo was already good enough, but Littbarski and Francescoli added to that provide Valderrama with the sort of options he would revel in. And where elegance and guile fail, you can always rely on Captain Marvel exerting his influence.
Love it, only detail I would point out is I would prefer Aldair left and McGrath right.
Enzo was such a terrific player. Last of the greats as far as Uruguay is concerned. And he can still do it aged 50 ( at Ortega's testimonial, watch the second goal ).
Love it, only detail I would point out is I would prefer Aldair left and McGrath right.
Enzo was such a terrific player. Last of the greats as far as Uruguay is concerned. And he can still do it aged 50 ( at Ortega's testimonial, watch the second goal
).I can feel an epic anto post coming up...
How did you know? Not epic though, don't want to go overboard. Maybe not yet at least
@antohan I assume I don't have your vote then?
I don't know whether I'm shit or unlucky with tough opponents, but I can never seem to get it right lol
@antohan I assume I don't have your vote then?
Your backline doesn't have a hope in hell of stopping such a fluid and inventive attack. You hardly managed against Pippa, here you are quite simply fecked. Your core strength (the DMs) will spend all game chasing shadows. Yes, they are great, but hoever good those two are, this trio is unplayable, and that's before we even factor in Ronaldo.
I voted for, well, I voted for Laudrup.
I think Pires' runs in behind being overlooked here. Laudrup-Pires is as surefire a goal as Ronaldo running at the United back line. Plus Pires does have a fullback who can join him, while on the other side there are 3 free roles which generally means not so much width and congestion centrally.
Also, with no width, the fullbacks can tuck in, and Keane and Viera can really congest the central zone. Finding a goal there might be hard. Also, as you said, the Brian Laudrup is doing a job as well- all that together means that there should be enough numbers to counter the weakness at CB.
I think Pires' runs in behind being overlooked here. Laudrup-Pires is as surefire a goal as Ronaldo running at the United back line. Plus Pires does have a fullback who can join him, while on the other side there are 3 free roles which generally means not so much width and congestion centrally.
Also, with no width, the fullbacks can tuck in, and Keane and Viera can really congest the central zone. Finding a goal there might be hard. Also, as you said, the Brian Laudrup is doing a job as well- all that together means that there should be enough numbers to counter the weakness at CB.
The level of the competition in this draft is higher than ever really. Usually all teams has apparent issues and weaknesses for trying to fiddle in too many big names in a side. Here every team nearly looks really impressive. I don't think it is fair to say you didn't get it right, your team is absolute top quality and the voting reflects how even it is, there just isn't any easy matches in this draft pretty much.
This draft is difficult really, I think it is mainly down to having a favorite of the voter in your team as it is so even it is hard to even vote.
Absolutely love how Chester made it all come together nicely. Every single one of those players has a clear role they excelled at and a team collectively built for everyone to play to the best of their abilities. That front four is quite simply unstoppable. Ronaldo was already good enough, but Littbarski and Francescoli added to that provide Valderrama with the sort of options he would revel in. And where elegance and guile fail, you can always rely on Captain Marvel exerting his influence.
Love it, only detail I would point out is I would prefer Aldair left and McGrath right.
Enzo was such a terrific player. Last of the greats as far as Uruguay is concerned. And he can still do it aged 50 ( at Ortega's testimonial, watch the second goal
Hehe - that goal!
Thanks for your comments, man - much appreciated.
McGrath and Aldair = the old switch-a-roo? Yes, I can see that - fact is I didn't think too much about it, given trippy's formation. They're both capable of playing either side, I think - but yes, it looks more natural with Aldair on the left all things said and done.
Unlucky mate. Draw matters a lot. Look at my and Cutch match up in last draft. He had no business going out in first round then. Or Balu's exit this time around.
I am surprised Anto has overlooked Laudrup here. Does not love him as much as he professes eh.
Luck of the draw is a huge factor. And the randomness of the vote - you never know how many will bother to throw in a vote, and whether they'll be casual voters or more dedicated ones. I feel Balu and Pedro lost because of Suarez - which they wouldn't have under slightly different circumstances. Flavour of the month on top of what was - obviously - a good team. Nothing Balu/Pedro could have done beyond going for more flavour-y players - and that ain't what you do, is it? You go for a team you like yourself - that's the fun of it.
Now, that said, trip - our match could clearly go either way. I've no idea how this will turn out.
Now, that said, trip - our match could clearly go either way. I've no idea how this will turn out.
How much of Francescoli and Littbarski have you actually seen?
Who is helping Keane and Vieira out? None of your front four will be doing much, so you need at least one minding Valderram as the playmaker, then you have Littbarski and Francescoli roaming between the lines as the target for the other one. There's jack shit you can do about it. Try squeeze them by playing a high line and they will beat you with the ball over the top 10 out of 10 times. feck all you can do about it, really.
I am surprised Anto has overlooked Laudrup here. Does not love him as much as he professes eh.
I love him to bits, but who is feeding him? Bruce and Pally from deep? Vieira and Keane? Nothing that compares to Valderrama. Then there's the issue that he was primarily an orchestrator, not a goalscorer. Trippy is far too dependent on the goals coming from Vieri (not the ideal foil for Laudrup) and Chester's backline can deal with him pretty well.
That's why I emphasise how well constructed Chesterle's midfield is. There's nothing lacking there and jointly it seems to me that it would be far more fluid than trippy's. Add to that Ronaldo being a better player than Vieri and the CB pair in front being more ill-suited to deal with him. Francescoli and Littbarski are also far superior players and goalscorers than Pires and Brian Laudrup.
He could nick it on the break in a game that looked more like a stalemate, but this looks like a rather open game and in an open game I'm pretty clear who would score more here.
Pires had a great goal scoring record at Arsenal. Him combining with Laudrup would be crucial for trippy. Henry fed him enough for Arsenal, no reason why Laudrup can't do the same.
Generally I agreed with your summary even though it was way overboard. Chester's game for me hinges on Robson, if someone rates him as highly as I do then he wins this. Because then both of Keane and Vieira end up playing a reactive game, covering too much stuff between the forward line and a charging Robson who was the king of latching on to those free balls in the box. If someone does not then I can see why they would think trippy has an edge.
I think that was a completely different and more fluid setup. Laudrup won't play like Henry, more like Bergkamp, but the one making Pires shine brightest was Henry there, who is nothing like Vieri.
Really? Explain to me how Keane and Vieira manage to contain Valderrama dictating, Francescoli and Littbarski roaming, and Robbo bombing forward. There's a bit of everything going on there, it's too much to handle, and that is what is happening behind Ronaldo Fenómeno, no less.
Admittedly not enough to make a judgment, I was going by what the tactics said...
I have seen a ton of Laudrup and a lot of Pires, and it is, as I admitted, my Laudrup bias that made me vote. My favourite player.
I think that the post above mine is misleading- if both AMs are roaming into Keane-Viera territory, then surely Neville and Evra can tuck in...it's not like anyone is stretching the defence.
Rpitroda's team is the best I've seen in the competition so far.
Well for starters Littbarski is not roaming as mentioned by Chester himself, he will stay out wide to compete with Evra. Then Neville would tuck in if it is needed. Bruce-Pallister are not Ronaldo caliber but let's not make them out to be like Bramble or something.
A few people have said this but nooone's really elaborated yet. What's the issue with this partnership that I'm missing here? To me it bares a reasonable degree of similarity to both the Baggio/Vieri and Laudrup/Zamarano proven partnerships, although as I said before McGrath is perfect for dealng wih physically imposing centre forwards anyway.
To clarify - Littbarski will roam. I only specified that compared to Francescoli his role will be LESS free, i.e. he will look more like a wide player at times without actually being one. It's a subtle difference. Littbarski is better suited to operate as a winger - that doesn't mean he will remain out wide in a non-dynamic wing role (whatever that would be!).
Both Littbarski and Francescoli have free roles - they're free roaming, attacking midfielders. That's the bottom line, as they say.
I think Vieri's role with Baggio was more about taking defenders away to create space for the latter to run into. Laudrup as anto said is more a creator than a scorer. He works best with a forward who can run the line to latch on to his through balls.
Well, saying he's not an ideal foil isn't exactly scathing criticism - let's be clear about that. Personally, what I've said is that he looks a little isolated in that set-up. Pires and B. Laudrup are players I can contain well enough, I feel - which means that the creative burden is very much on one man, namely Laudrup. Neither Keane nor Vieira are players who will be much good to Laudrup in terms of unlocking a defense.
And Vieri isn't a complete striker who will constitute a great threat on his own - very few strikers are. For my money Laudrup would've been more dangerous given a) a more creative partner in midfield (i.e. substitute Vieira with X, a more creative and offensively dangerous player) or b) a more complete striker, someone faster and more skilful who can combine directly with M. Laudrup OR create something entirely on his own.
I understand the Laudrup bias, quite deserved
Both Littbarski and Francescoli can stretch the defence, but can roam around to receive, whether they choose to attack the flank or centrally is up to them. Gaz and Paddy can do bugger all to stop them receiving in space, they aren't going to run around like headless chicken, which is where Vieira and Keane need to support, but they also have to stop Valderrama delivering or Robbo bombing forward. It's just way too much, however great they were. Once on the ball Francescoli, Littbarski or Ronaldo can destroy those defences, be it stretched or tucked in, there's an abysmal gap in class.
Ronaldo: no need to explain
Francescoli: the heart and soul of every team he played for. He could single-handedly run and win games, which is unfortunate as he kept being signed by clubs looking for one world beater who could be a one-man team as he was for Uruguay (only River ever gave him the right platform and support cast). Played four Copa Americas, won three, one in 1983 beating Brazil (yes, that Brazil) in the final, in Brazil; one in 1987 beating world champions Argentina at home in the semi; and his last in 1995 beating world champions Brazil. The other time he was runner-up, losing the final to Brazil at the Maracana with Romario playing the game of his life. Apparently Gary Neville can do something about all that by tucking in.
Littbarski: three world cups, one won, two runner-up. Evra apparently has his number. Right.
It should be noted that in the first megabucks club as a toy experiment (Racing Matra de Paris) both Francescoli and Littbarski played together and arrived as the star signings playing in the exact same roles they have been assigned to here. It was a terrible experiment, club had no soul, no support, etc. But his form there prompted Cruyff to want Enzo at Barca (was demanded insane money), it eventually led to him joining Marseille and having Zidane drooling at his every move ("He was everything I wanted to be as a player").
Vieri was still very much the primary goalscorer in that partnership though, and I think he'd thrive on Laudrup's through balls. Anyway, this discussion gives me a chance to post this lovely goal:
As crappy has stated, trippy's team is set up well to deal with teams like that of Chester's. Neville is good at reading the game, and tucking in will help him deal with Enzo's movements. Then, we have Littbarski vs. Evra, and that's an even battle unless Evra gets isolated in a 2 vs. 1 situation. Bruce and Pallister can handle the crosses from the full backs, and both are also very good defenders in their own right. Keane and Vieira will keep things tight, defensively, and keep the spaces compact and small.
In essence, trippy's team is set up for fast-paced counterattacks. With Laudrups and Pires on the team, trippy has players that suit the fast-paced counterattacking game (based on their abilities). Vieri's a deadly finisher who's excellent in the air as well as on the ground. Plus, he's capable of linking up well with runners beyond him. For this, I feel trippy's team betters Chester's.
I understand the Laudrup bias, quite deserved
Both Littbarski and Francescoli can stretch the defence, but can roam around to receive, whether they choose to attack the flank or centrally is up to them. Gaz and Paddy can do bugger all to stop them receiving in space, they aren't going to run around like headless chicken, which is where Vieira and Keane need to support, but they also have to stop Valderrama delivering or Robbo bombing forward. It's just way too much, however great they were. Once on the ball Francescoli, Littbarski or Ronaldo can destroy those defences, be it stretched or tucked in, there's an abysmal gap in class.
Ronaldo: no need to explain
Francescoli: the heart and soul of every team he played for. He could single-handedly run and win games, which is unfortunate as he kept being signed by clubs looking for one world beater who could be a one-man team as he was for Uruguay (only River ever gave him the right platform and support cast). Played four Copa Americas, won three, one in 1983 beating Brazil (yes, that Brazil) in the final, in Brazil; one in 1987 beating world champions Argentina at home in the semi; and his last in 1995 beating world champions Brazil. The other time he was runner-up, losing the final to Brazil at the Maracana with Romario playing the game of his life. Apparently Gary Neville can do something about all that by tucking in.
Littbarski: three world cups, one won, two runner-up. Evra apparently has his number. Right.
It should be noted that in the first megabucks club as a toy experiment (Racing Matra de Paris) both Francescoli and Littbarski played together and arrived as the star signings playing in the exact same roles they have been assigned to here. It was a terrible experiment, club had no soul, no support, etc. But his form there prompted Cruyff to want Enzo at Barca (was demanded insane money), it eventually led to him joining Marseille and having Zidane drooling at his every move ("He was everything I wanted to be as a player").
Aye - what a strange phenomenon that was. A precursor of something we know all too well today - but under very different restrictions. And, not least, a club that was clearly run by utter fools - look at the players who were on their books for that short span! Amazing collection of great names.
He had pace over some distance (e.g. when counterattacking) but wasn't explosive enough/took some time to get that body up to speed, which isn't ideal for the sort of balls Laudrup will play in the final third. Romario and Zamorano relied on explosion and movement off the ball, not being physically imposing.
Villa would work better with Laudrup than Vieri, once you have Vieri you are looking at either counters or crosses, Laudrup playing him through won't be a regular feature.
To me this all sounds like perfectly generic praise - it doesn't explain why they would be adept at dealing with my system in particular. Simply tucking in won't make Gaz Neville better equipped to deal with Francescoli. I love United - and I love all those players across that back four. But they are not good enough to deal with attackers of the caliber we're talking about here - they simply aren't. I still remember seeing Bruce and Pally up against Stoichkov and Romario - it wasn't pretty.
Absolutely, if you look at the men upfront. The issue is, who is executing the quick outball? I don't see a seamless transition there.
Aye I know that mate, I'm just curious as to what I'm missing when so many people are saying it and I can't see it. I just don't see why Vieri couldn't play the Zamarano role in the Laudrup/Zamarano partnership for instance. I do agree that you seem better equipped to contain his attacking threat than vice versa. This Laudrup/Vieri business has just piqued my interest, hence my droning on endlessly about it I thought listing their achievements relative to those of Gaz and Paddy could make it "click". Clearly not. Good players, but facing far superior players, legends of the game who could turn games on their heads at will.
Now that's shed some light on why people feel this way. Cheers Anto!
In short, you need the explosive striker who can play off the shoulder and outsmart his minders. Or move/drop back to lure a deep-sitting defender forward, then beat him on the turn. Laudrup's balls will rip you apart then. The man for that isn't really someone built like a tank.
I havent voted yet and one deciding factors might be Valderrama. How high do you guys rate him? I actually think that his quality is "dubious", considering the level we are talking about. My first impression is, that he is the worst player on the pitch by quite some distance. I have to admit, that I know very little about him (worldcups 90/94/98); did his look and his standing in his country promote the creation of legends about him or was he really a top player?
I'm looking at the system + the players, not just the players. I believe trippy's team will sit back and keep things tight at the back. Spaces for the attacking players will be at a minimum, and when trippy's team win the ball, they'll explode out on the counter.
If trippy set up a system similar to that of the old Man. Utd., then Chester's team wins, hands down. However, he's setting up for defensive solidity with an explosive counterattack. This, to me, makes this match really close and tight. It's not as if I picked trippy comfortably.
Roy Keane? He's not a pure destroyer like de Jong or van Bommel. Just because he's had Scholes playing alongside him for so long didn't mean that Keane was a pure destroyer who only looked to Scholes to play the out ball.
My favourite Valderrama moment is from '90 - the match against West Germany. He had a poor match, looked out of sorts. Littbarski (!) scored for the Germans with only a few minutes to go - and Colombia were out of the tournament. But then Valderrama woke up. He set up a brilliant attack, ending with a trademark through-ball of his to Rincon, who equalized - and Colombia went through after all.
He was a brilliant player. Very difficult to dispossess, excellent technique, masterful reader of the game and a great passer. In spite of his flamboyant appearance he was, also, a very selfless player at his best - great team player. His obvious weakness was his pace - and this became more marked the older he got, as you'd expect. But in his pomp this didn't hamper him - he operated within a certain area, and from there he controlled the match through his passing and reading of the game.
Don't take my word for it, though - I obviously won't be slagging him off. But the bit in bold...would've made me boil with righteous fury if I wasn't in such a good mood.
