[antohan]

I'd argue the opposite, Uruguay play attacking, proactive football which allowed him to show his best qualities

We actually haven't been like that for absolute ages, but see below.

He's naturally comfortable on the ball and attacking defenders. As above, while it would be ideal for him to be in a more attacking team, being at Alaves doesn't seem to have had a negative impact on him. He's developing quite well, I think. For him it's possible that he needed to be somewhere that he's comfortable.

Alavés has nowt to do with any of that. What he was doing last night was displaying what we could all see from him in his first season as a pro, before United signed him and derailed his trajectory.

You are right, he was indeed comfortable in that setting being asked to do what he is best at. We've really struggled with transitions and changed manager after the last int'l break. With 1 point in 5 games, qualification was suddenly badly compromised and the first thing the new guy came up with was "we need players like Pellistri, we don't have many in that mould, he is not playing I know, but we need him to play to the level we know he can". So the lunatic just called him up and gave him his first cap as a starter, bang into the oven. Took him the entire Paraguay game to get warmed up and feeling more confident, but last night he was simply exuberant and in his element.

Sometimes you just have to trust talent to shine through and let it manifest itself.

 

[Caesar2290]

We actually haven't been like that for absolute ages, but see below.


Alavés has nowt to do with any of that. What he was doing last night was displaying what we could all see from him in his first season as a pro, before United signed him and derailed his trajectory.

You are right, he was indeed comfortable in that setting being asked to do what he is best at. We've really struggled with transitions, changed manager after the last int'l break. With 1 point in 5 games qualification was suddenly badly compromised and the first thing the new guy came up with was "we need players like Pellistri, we don't have many in that mould, he is not playing I know, but we need him to play to the level we know he can". So the lunatic just called him up and gave him his first cap as a starter, bang into the oven. Took him the entire Paraguay game to get warmed up and feeling more confident, but last night he was simply exuberant and in his element.

Sometimes you just have to trust talent to shine through and let it manifest itself.

If that is true, then holy moly do we have a gem on our hands.

Imagine being 20 and called up to your national team for the 1st time, only to be thrown into the fire right off the bat. And somehow you have 2 very good games.

That is mental toughness right there. That is the type of resilience you need to have to make it at United.

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

He had a promising pre season too. Hopefully he can blossom at an English club on loan next season, or an attacking European side would be great.

 

[dutchred]

He had a promising pre season too. Hopefully he can blossom at an English club on loan next season, or an attacking European side would be great.

He is now a fully fledged International. Let him stay here and fight for a place. He will keep Sancho, Elenga and Rashford on their toes.

 

[antohan]

If that is true, then holy moly do we have a gem on our hands.

Imagine being 20 and called up to your national team for the 1st time, only to be thrown into the fire right off the bat. And somehow you have 2 very good games.

That is mental toughness right there. That is the type of resilience you need to have to make it at United.

Kid has spunk, you don't get that on Amazon.

Well, you probably can, but you get my point.

 

[Remember the geese]

He looks an interesting player. Quick and direct. Very tight dribbling control. Good aggression in his game too. On the flip side, his passing ability seems to be fairly basic and lacking in range/creativity. He also doesn't strike me as a very prolific finisher. If he can improve on those two areas, finishing in particular, then he may have a chance here. For now though, I would take Elanga and Amad over him.

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

To tell you the truth it bothers me that he doesn't shoot the goal

Never seen him try to test the goalie of the opposition

 

[VanDeBank]

To tell you the truth it bothers me that he doesn't shoot the goal

Never seen him try to test the goalie of the opposition

Yes, he is very one dimensional but great at what he does (dribbling). @Remember the geese is spot on.

 

[Champ]

Seems to be getting minutes on the pitch, which is more than he'd get here, so not really too sure why people are moaning?!

He could probably get more minutes by dropping down a level, but as a player surely you'd rather challenge yourself to play at the highest level?

 

[flameinthesun]

He looks an interesting player. Quick and direct. Very tight dribbling control. Good aggression in his game too. On the flip side, his passing ability seems to be fairly basic and lacking in range/creativity. He also doesn't strike me as a very prolific finisher. If he can improve on those two areas, finishing in particular, then he may have a chance here. For now though, I would take Elanga and Amad over him.

Yup, this is why I found the david silva comparisons weird. He does seem to have beautiful balance, I was concerned he wouldn't quite have the pace but he seems to have gotten a bit quicker (as has Amad). I don't think he'll ever be a david silva type player but if we can improve his wnd product a bit he could potentially be a very good player for us. Interesting times with him, Amad, Elanga, Laird and Hannibal.

 

[VanDeBank]

Seems to be getting minutes on the pitch, which is more than he'd get here, so not really too sure why people are moaning?!

He could probably get more minutes by dropping down a level, but as a player surely you'd rather challenge yourself to play at the highest level?

He's playing 30 minutes every other week at his club....

 

[Gandalf]

So here is a wild idea:


Why don't we:

A. Recall him and use him as back up to be subbed later on in the match to run at tired legs
B. Do a Laird and loan him to a Championship/Eredevise side so he can get some much more needed game time?

Because the window is closed

 

[Remember the geese]

Yup, this is why I found the david silva comparisons weird. He does seem to have beautiful balance, I was concerned he wouldn't quite have the pace but he seems to have gotten a bit quicker (as has Amad). I don't think he'll ever be a david silva type player but if we can improve his wnd product a bit he could potentially be a very good player for us. Interesting times with him, Amad, Elanga, Laird and Hannibal.

A young David Silva was more of a touchline hugging winger and dribbler than his City incarnation, so I can vaguely see certain elements that are in Pellistri's game. However, I don't see Pellistri ever having the vision and passing ability of Silva. Yeah, there are many youngsters at the club who can give us reason to be optimistic. Not all will make it here, but I'm hopeful that a good few will.

 

[Champ]

He's playing 30 minutes every other week at his club....

Which is more than he would play at United.

 

[Jordan_mufc]

Which is more than he would play at United.

And less than he could get on loan at another club

 

[Champ]

And less than he could get on loan at another club

Exactly, which is why my comment stated that exact point, albeit that club would have to be at a step down from la Liga.
Would you rather he play at a higher standard for less time, or at a lower standard but get more time? Swings and roundabouts for me, but as a player you'd want to be playing against Barca and Real rather than Coventry and West Brom surely?!

 

[Ali Dia]

I think with players like Amad Pellistri and Hannibal we need to loan at least 2 of them to teams where they will play until they are about 22/23. If they aren’t ready or haven’t improved enough by then sell up. PL is now the very top end of the game with no easy game. We can’t have several players learning on the job unless it’s another freak CO 92 type situation which won’t happen again for a long time. In fact i would go as far as to say recently we’ve given too much too soon to certain young players and it nearly always backfires and holds us and them back. I’d rather he was playing every week in the championship or even getting the same amount of minutes as at Alaves but in the PL and making a bit name for himself here while growing accustomed to the culture and style of play. He’s a good player but still a long way off. Playing well against Venezuela or Ross County means very little in the grand scheme of things but it’s pleasing to see.

 

[VanDeBank]

Exactly, which is why my comment stated that exact point, albeit that club would have to be at a step down from la Liga.
Would you rather he play at a higher standard for less time, or at a lower standard but get more time? Swings and roundabouts for me, but as a player you'd want to be playing against Barca and Real rather than Coventry and West Brom surely?!

They're not really playing football against the top teams though. They spent the whole game defending in their own half. And this guy is a sub that doesn't always come on.

Playing 90 minutes every week for a team that can actually play football relative to most of competition is preferable.

How is this kid gonna improve his finishing or passing in the final third 50 yards from goal?

 

[Champ]

They're not really playing football against the top teams though. They spent the whole game defending in their own half. And this guy is a sub that doesn't always come on.

Playing 90 minutes every week for a team that can actually play football relative to most of competition is preferable.

How is this kid gonna improve his finishing or passing in the final third 50 yards from goal?

So we should only loan players to the top teams in each league then??

What you are describing is a idealistic situation not a realistic one.

What these players need is experience at the highest level of football they can get, Pellistri is getting that at Alaves and with his national side.
Any game time is experience, and it helps that he is in a team that has to grind results, that's good experience too. Brings out a different work ethic to that of a player in a team who constantly wins.

We don't really know if it is preferable for him to be at a Championship level team getting regular starts as it seems he is more comfortable in his current surroundings, that also must count for something. However there is an argument to say he needs to break out of his comfort zone in order to progress.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

So we should only loan players to the top teams in each league then??

What you are describing is a idealistic situation not a realistic one.

What these players need is experience at the highest level of football they can get, Pellistri is getting that at Alaves and with his national side.
Any game time is experience, and it helps that he is in a team that has to grind results, that's good experience too. Brings out a different work ethic to that of a player in a team who constantly wins.

We don't really know if it is preferable for him to be at a Championship level team getting regular starts as it seems he is more comfortable in his current surroundings, that also must count for something. However there is an argument to say he needs to break out of his comfort zone in order to progress.

I think for any player to go on loan there needs to be a list of priorities in this order:

1) Game time
2) Level of the league
3) Similarity of the league style to the parent company
4) Playing in preferred position etc
5) Similarity of tactics used within team (Usually mirrored by a team at the top of their league)

So comparing that Alaves with us, he isn't getting enough game time but the league is of a similar level at least. The league style is quite different though and I'd argue the championship would be more comparable, he isn't always playing in his preferred position and the tactics are remarkably different as they are fighting for survival so I'd give the loan a 1/5 only, it doesn't look good.

 

[VanDeBank]

So we should only loan players to the top teams in each league then??

What you are describing is a idealistic situation not a realistic one.

What these players need is experience at the highest level of football they can get, Pellistri is getting that at Alaves and with his national side.
Any game time is experience, and it helps that he is in a team that has to grind results, that's good experience too. Brings out a different work ethic to that of a player in a team who constantly wins.

We don't really know if it is preferable for him to be at a Championship level team getting regular starts as it seems he is more comfortable in his current surroundings, that also must count for something. However there is an argument to say he needs to break out of his comfort zone in order to progress.

There's quite a gap between relegation battling shit house teams and top teams. Brentford is a good example of a team pretty much fighting relegation but still playing good footy. Brighton last season is another example.

You're whole post is based on the assumption /straw man that I want him only at a super dominant team like Ajax or the equivalent there off.

Well, I think playing full games week in and week out provides more valuable experience than 20-30 mins once every other week. Which top player do you know that played as little football as that during his formative years? He's 20.

I get the impression you've never watched Alaves and think they're just struggling and losing. That's not just it, their football is uniquely awful.

 

[Bondi77]

No, the loan was exactly what he needed, fast technical abd quality football. It didn't work out because he is not playing, but the idea was good.

The other option would've been playing in the championship where the level of football is quite trash.

I think the teams that get promoted might disagree with you there.

 

[Bondi77]

This is the part that seems mad to me. In the summer we clearly wanted him to take a different option but he had enjoyed his time there and they wanted him back and so we decided that a loan he was happy with made the most sense and let him return but a lot was made of the fact that we had a clause in the contract concerning minutes played and we could recall him if it was not met.

He was interviewed in December somewhere, I will look around and try to add the link, and he effectively said that he knew he had not met the target number of minutes and was half expecting to be recalled and sent somewhere else and yet when January rolled around we did nothing. We recalled other players to send them out on better loans so I can only conclude either Alaves have made some sort of promise regarding their remaining games which frankly I would not trust given their performance so far or we simply are not that bothered.

Edited to add the link, pretty good interview all around

Facundo Pellistri: ‘I wrote to Ole. He gave me the chance to play for United’ | Soccer | The Guardian

Great interview, Seems a bit brighter than the average footballer.

 

[Marwood]

Exactly, which is why my comment stated that exact point, albeit that club would have to be at a step down from la Liga.
Would you rather he play at a higher standard for less time, or at a lower standard but get more time? Swings and roundabouts for me, but as a player you'd want to be playing against Barca and Real rather than Coventry and West Brom surely?!

I don't think it matters what the player would prefer, especially when they're 19. That's probably the mistake we've been making. Letting kids decide where is best for them.

A 19 year old probably does want to play against Barca and Madrid. But the club should want them playing 35 games a season.

 

[Champ]

There's quite a gap between relegation battling shit house teams and top teams. Brentford is a good example of a team pretty much fighting relegation but still playing good footy. Brighton last season is another example.

You're whole post is based on the assumption /straw man that I want him only at a super dominant team like Ajax or the equivalent there off.

Well, I think playing full games week in and week out provides more valuable experience than 20-30 mins once every other week. Which top player do you know that played as little football as that during his formative years? He's 20.

I get the impression you've never watched Alaves and think they're just struggling and losing. That's not just it, their football is uniquely awful.

Harry Kane had 13 appearances in his loan for Leicester in 6 months, 8 of then off the bench, didn't do him harm, yes that Leicester side were flying but he didn't get the game time he probably should have.
He went back to Spurs and never looked back.
I'm not saying that'll happen here but what I am saying is any experience is good experience. He has to fight for game time, in a team that is struggling, that brings its own experience.

We can't have all of our loan players playing all the time at the highest level, don't think what I'm saying is 'strawman', if anything I'd say what I'm saying makes perfect sense.
You may see it differently and that's fine, but for me I'd want my players to experience different aspects of football, be it in a struggling team or having to fight their way into game time.

If it comes to an issue where he is not getting any minutes then yes, it's a poor loan. As it stands he is getting minutes, yes they may not play the way we do, but he is getting experience in a different environment and a different structure, again it's good experience.

 

[Mainoldo]

He’s so bang average I don’t know why half of you guys bother. He’s Never making it here.

 

[VanDeBank]

Harry Kane had 13 appearances in his loan for Leicester in 6 months, 8 of then off the bench, didn't do him harm, yes that Leicester side were flying but he didn't get the game time he probably should have.
He went back to Spurs and never looked back.
I'm not saying that'll happen here but what I am saying is any experience is good experience. He has to fight for game time, in a team that is struggling, that brings its own experience.

We can't have all of our loan players playing all the time at the highest level, don't think what I'm saying is 'strawman', if anything I'd say what I'm saying makes perfect sense.
You may see it differently and that's fine, but for me I'd want my players to experience different aspects of football, be it in a struggling team or having to fight their way into game time.

If it comes to an issue where he is not getting any minutes then yes, it's a poor loan. As it stands he is getting minutes, yes they may not play the way we do, but he is getting experience in a different environment and a different structure, again it's good experience.

" So we should only loan players to the top teams in each league then?? "

That's a straw man because your whole post assumes that's my stance.

Anyway, he's not successfully working his way into the team. He's been there for over a year and he's getting less game time than when he came over. You should really watch them once, it's anti football.

I think for any player to go on loan there needs to be a list of priorities in this order:

1) Game time
2) Level of the league
3) Similarity of the league style to the parent company
4) Playing in preferred position etc
5) Similarity of tactics used within team (Usually mirrored by a team at the top of their league)

So comparing that Alaves with us, he isn't getting enough game time but the league is of a similar level at least. The league style is quite different though and I'd argue the championship would be more comparable, he isn't always playing in his preferred position and the tactics are remarkably different as they are fighting for survival so I'd give the loan a 1/5 only, it doesn't look good.

I disagree about the idea that La Liga is less like the PL than the Championship, but I've noticed there's a lot of misconceptions on La Liga around here. It's basically PL light, with the biggest difference being less intense pressing. It's a very physical league as well.

 

[VanDeBank]

He’s so bang average I don’t know why half of you guys bother. He’s Never making it here.

Regardless, he still needs to develop as best as possible even if he's sold.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

" So we should only loan players to the top teams in each league then?? "

That's a straw man because your whole post assumes that's my stance.

Anyway, he's not successfully working his way into the team. He's been there for over a year and he's getting less game time than when he came over. You should really watch them once, it's anti football.


I disagree about the idea that La Liga is less like the PL than the Championship, but I've noticed there's a lot of misconceptions on La Liga around here. It's basically PL light, with the biggest difference being less intense pressing. It's a very physical league as well.

Even if we agree on the point and I change my stance, the most important thing is minutes and he isn't getting enough for this loan to be worthy.

 

[Champ]

" So we should only loan players to the top teams in each league then?? "

That's a straw man because your whole post assumes that's my stance.

Anyway, he's not successfully working his way into the team. He's been there for over a year and he's getting less game time than when he came over. You should really watch them once, it's anti football.


I disagree about the idea that La Liga is less like the PL than the Championship, but I've noticed there's a lot of misconceptions on La Liga around here. It's basically PL light, with the biggest difference being less intense pressing. It's a very physical league as well.

Your asking him to play at a team playing quality football, you mentioned Brentford and Brighton as an example, he wouldn't get game time at either team.

He is getting on average 35 mins so far this season (last season was circa 45 mins) which whilst not enough, is still better than what he would get here.

All experience is good experience, could it be better? Possibly, but it could also be a lot worse.
He could be in the championship and playing game in game out, that might suit him, but he'd be playing against a lower quality opposition, and training with lower quality players, swings and roundabouts.

 

[Real Name]

He’s so bang average I don’t know why half of you guys bother. He’s Never making it here.

Close thread.

 

[AltiUn]

He’s so bang average I don’t know why half of you guys bother. He’s Never making it here.

We should still want to develop him as best we can to maximise resale value.

 

[JuriM]

He’s so bang average I don’t know why half of you guys bother. He’s Never making it here.

I hope you never make it in life..

What the feck is this attitude towards players who have barely touched the grass. Was it as bad 10 years ago before the social media influx or wasn't I just involved enough to see it?

 

[Real Name]

I hope you never make it in life..

What the feck is this attitude towards players who have barely touched the grass. Was it as bad 10 years ago before the social media influx or wasn't I just involved enough to see it?

He's an expert in those things so he should know.

 

[golden_blunder]

He’s so bang average I don’t know why half of you guys bother. He’s Never making it here.

He’s got a chance. I’d like to see him back here for preseason and perhaps under a coach like ETH we could see the start of a young exciting hungry team. I see nothing to put me off Pellistri, he seems intelligent, humble, eager to learn and has a skill set which we arguably lack (dribbling)

 

[VanDeBank]

Your asking him to play at a team playing quality football, you mentioned Brentford and Brighton as an example, he wouldn't get game time at either team.

He is getting on average 35 mins so far this season (last season was circa 45 mins) which whilst not enough, is still better than what he would get here.

All experience is good experience, could it be better? Possibly, but it could also be a lot worse.
He could be in the championship and playing game in game out, that might suit him, but he'd be playing against a lower quality opposition, and training with lower quality players, swings and roundabouts.

You keep misinterpreting my posts.

My point was to give examples of sides fighting relegation that play actual football instead of shit housing. Your initial strawman was that I only wanted to send players on loan to top teams.

I mentioned Brighton's team last season. I could give you other examples of lower table teams in other leagues that play better (attacking) football, but I assumed you'd be more familiar with PL teams. Greuther Furth for example, leak goals like crazy but they do try and get out of their own half more. And no, I'm not suggesting to send him to Furth, before you write another essay implying that's my position.

Anyway, it's a pointless conversation, cause I'm sure many midtable teams in weaker competitions (so PL and LL aside) would give him more game time as well.

He needs to play to improve and Alaves obviously pick their players based on good their defensive skills, since that is 95% of what they do. So he plays 15 minutes a week on average and I'd rather he play 4 times that.

 

[Mainoldo]

I hope you never make it in life..

What the feck is this attitude towards players who have barely touched the grass. Was it as bad 10 years ago before the social media influx or wasn't I just involved enough to see it?

Inside info from a scout who basically said. Don’t know why United have signed him, he’s okay but not United quality and will struggle in the Prem.

Just an opinion but look at what he’s doing now. Hard to argue with it.

 

[Gandalf]

Inside info from a scout who basically said. Don’t know why United have signed him, he’s okay but not United quality and will struggle in the Prem.

Just an opinion but look at what he’s doing now. Hard to argue with it.

He may have some way to go but in every sport there are countless examples of stars who were written off early by scouts and coaches and through hard work and the right attitude proved them wrong. Of course these are the exception rather than the rule but Pellistri played very well in both of his games for Uruguay this past week and looks like he does have something to offer and to be clear I watched both games in full, not just the highlights. The Alaves loan has been a disaster but as many have pointed out, they are parking the bus every week and have no real use for a player of his skillset. I don't think anyone is saying he should be a first team regular for us next season but it would be good to see him get a loan to a team that plays with more possession and attacking intent so that he can show more of what he can do on the ball.

 

[bringbackbebe]

People writing off Pellistri and Diallo are the same lot who would have written off Park, Valencia, O'Shea, Fletcher, Wes Brown, Evans etc. They are both roughly 20 years of age and have a lot of development ahead of them to be decent squad players, or players who can be sold for a profit at the least. Magnifying every little mistake and gloryfying every goal or assist is a sure shot way of displaying our own ignorance based on YouTube videos.

 

[Champ]

You keep misinterpreting my posts.

My point was to give examples of sides fighting relegation that play actual football instead of shit housing. Your initial strawman was that I only wanted to send players on loan to top teams.

I mentioned Brighton's team last season. I could give you other examples of lower table teams in other leagues that play better (attacking) football, but I assumed you'd be more familiar with PL teams. Greuther Furth for example, leak goals like crazy but they do try and get out of their own half more. And no, I'm not suggesting to send him to Furth, before you write another essay implying that's my position.

Anyway, it's a pointless conversation, cause I'm sure many midtable teams in weaker competitions (so PL and LL aside) would give him more game time as well.

He needs to play to improve and Alaves obviously pick their players based on good their defensive skills, since that is 95% of what they do. So he plays 15 minutes a week on average and I'd rather he play 4 times that.

So would I, but he isn't and what he is doing is good enough to get him into his national side so he is also getting experience there.

Why mention Brighton's team last season? What use is that to a loan this season?

The simple fact is he wouldn't be getting into a premiership teams starting 11 this season (or last for that matter), so he would have to drop down to the Championship for that, even then there's no guarantees that the team he would have gone to would play this attacking, beautiful football that you appear to desire.

There is more than one way to play football and if he is learning to work hard off the ball then good, as that will invigorate a good work ethic. I don't see any issue with a player getting a bit part at the highest level they can.