FA Youth Cup: Manchester United vs Chelsea

same as first team miss too many easy chances, 1 out of 3 is not really good enough and we paid. Loosing Brady had a negative effect he was working really hard to win the ball back. Very disapointing to be behind after playing so well for 35 - 40 minutes



Crowd seems smaller than I thought it would be
 
Can't really put it down to luck. Not good enough at the back by a long chalk unfortunately.
 
chelsea good chances 2
1/2 chances 2
4 shots -- 3 goals

United 6 good chances numerous 1/2 chances

loads of shots 2 goals

says it all really
 
PS18 said:
Can't really put it down to luck. Not good enough at the back by a long chalk unfortunately.
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Chelsea were very clinical. We should have got a 2nd in the first 30 mins. We had chances, 3 really good ones after the goal. Shame really. Thought Gill was our worst player. Norwood wasnt great. Our defending for their 3rd goal was terrible.
 
PS18 said:
When you defend that badly you can have no arguments with losing any game.
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Thats a bit harsh

1st goal came after poor pass by norwood
2nd poor from Gill
3rd unlucky when a blocked cross rebounded for a first time shot

otherwise we did ok keeping them to so few chances we just keep missing chances many very easy at any level
 
PS18 said:
When you defend that badly you can have no arguments with losing any game.
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Very good comment. We were not good at the back. We should have won via puttiing more chances away, but as we were hopeless defensively, thats what can happen... our own fault.

Pity.
 
RedPhil1957 said:
Thats a bit harsh

1st goal came after poor pass by norwood
2nd poor from Gill
3rd unlucky when a blocked cross rebounded for a first time shot

otherwise we did ok keeping them to so few chances we just keep missing chances many very easy at any level
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How is it harsh when you've pointed out yourself the first two goals came from really poor passes? The third wasn't off a blocked cross either, it was a botched clearance.

We did ok keeping them to a few chances but that's no use when you're going to concede so easily from the few chances we did give up.

There's just not a great crop of defenders in the academy at the minute, rare for us in recent years. The first years have got time on their side and I like Dudgeon but us having the best defensive record in the academy league was always misleading for me.

It can't be helped, talent distribution is cyclical and right now our best players are midfielders and forwards.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yeah you can.

We didn't deserve a clean sheet, that's for sure.

But our attacking football deserved more than two goals. We were all over them, for the vast majority of the game. Hence a defeat was harsh on us.
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Nonsense. On the balance of play is a defeat fair? No, not at all, I doubt even Chelsea would dispute that. You just can't have any complaints when you don't take your chances and make crucial errors at crucial times. It's not like dodgy decisions or rank bad luck has cost us - we've made poor errors at the back, Chelsea have produced three very good finishes and they deserve their win.

A defeat is a harsh lesson but we brought in on ourselves. To say we were all over them for the majority of the game is a big exaggeration and 'our attacking football deserved more goals' is just a nonsensical statement.
 
PS18 said:
How is it harsh when you've pointed out yourself the first two goals came from really poor passes? The third wasn't off a blocked cross either, it was a botched clearance.

We did ok keeping them to a few chances but that's no use when you're going to concede so easily from the few chances we did give up.

There's just not a great crop of defenders in the academy at the minute, rare for us in recent years. The first years have got time on their side and I like Dudgeon but us having the best defensive record in the academy league was always misleading for me.

It can't be helped, talent distribution is cyclical and right now our best players are midfielders and forwards.
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ok a poor clearance if you like

norwood midfield and stewart playing wide caused 2 out of 3 goals so how can you blame just the defenders!! Chelsea's strength is going forward, they are the highest scorers in their division but also have let in more goals than any other team.

As Harrison just said ok we made poor defensive errors but you cannot miss the amount of chances we had.
 
PS18 said:
Nonsense. On the balance of play is a defeat fair? No, not at all, I doubt even Chelsea would dispute that. You just can't have any complaints when you don't take your chances and make crucial errors at crucial times. It's not like dodgy decisions or rank bad luck has cost us - we've made poor errors at the back, Chelsea have produced three very good finishes and they deserve their win.

A defeat is a harsh lesson but we brought in on ourselves. To say we were all over them for the majority of the game is a big exaggeration and 'our attacking football deserved more goals' is just a nonsensical statement.
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I certainly wouldn't dispute that either. A draw would have been a fair result, on balance.

Hence my original post in this thread.

Now stop being such a grumpy sod and picking pointless arguments, just cause you're pissed off about the game ;)
 
I'm neither grumpy or pissed off cheers. Your original post said we didn't deserve to lose - how is that the case when we spurned our opportunities going forward and made big mistakes at the back? It's not like anyone else is to blame for the defeat so we deserved what we got.

I assume it's a 'pointless argument' because it's one you realise you'll lose if it carries on, so fair enough.
 
It's disappointed because we have a great bunch of players and we were terrific for the first forty minutes. James is a tremendous young player, I wish we had an older equivalent in the first team right now. I agree with Phil's earlier point that we seemed to have lost our balance as soon as Brady went off as he tracked back and linked quite well.

As for our defenders, only Dudgeon impressed.
 
RedPhil1957 said:
ok a poor clearance if you like

norwood midfield and stewart playing wide caused 2 out of 3 goals so how can you blame just the defenders!! Chelsea's strength is going forward, they are the highest scorers in their division but also have let in more goals than any other team.

As Harrison just said ok we made poor defensive errors but you cannot miss the amount of chances we had.
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Gill caused the second goal, the third goal was poor play by Dudgeon and a failure by the other defenders to get a tackle in. The first goal was sloppy from Norwood and the marking was poor. If you can't see how the defence can be blamed then I'm at a loss really.

I'm well aware of Chelsea's strengths and weaknesses and I'm not excusing the profligacy in front of goal at all, but the fact remains we were cruising at 1-0 and then switched off at the back at the worst possible time. That lack of concentration killed us more than any missed chance.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
It's disappointed because we have a great bunch of players and we were terrific for the first forty minutes. James is a tremendous young player, I wish we had an older equivalent in the first team right now. I agree with Phil's earlier point that we seemed to have lost our balance as soon as Brady went off as he tracked back and linked quite well.

As for our defenders, only Dudgeon impressed.
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The Brady point's a good one actually, while it didn't immediately cause any obvious problems the impressive shape we'd kept up until he went off was definitely lost.
 
PS18 said:
I'm neither grumpy or pissed off cheers. Your original post said we didn't deserve to lose - how is that the case when we spurned our opportunities going forward and made big mistakes at the back? It's not like anyone else is to blame for the defeat so we deserved what we got.

I assume it's a 'pointless argument' because it's one you realise you'll lose if it carries on, so fair enough.
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Oh for feck's sake. I'm more than happy to continue this pointless argument if you wish.

Here's your own opinion on the game.

On the balance of play is a defeat fair? No, not at all, I doubt even Chelsea would dispute that.
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So a defeat wasn't a fair result, on the balance of play. Therefore, a fair result would have been a draw or (presumably) a United victory.

Bearing in mind the above is your own opinion I would have to say that it's extremely pointless for you to be still trying to pick an argument with me about my initial opinion that we didn't deserve to lose (i.e. I - like you - didn't think it was a fair result, on the balance of play)

Now go and have a beer and chill the feck out. There's always next season, eh?
 
Results aren't decided on the balance of play, goals aren't awarded based on attacking intent or territorial advantage, that is the whole point. If you defend poorly and waste your chances then regardless of the balance of play you deserve to lose, it really is that simple.

Your whole reasoning for the defeat being harsh is that our attacking play deserved more than two goals, which is just a ridiculous statement. You don't 'deserve' goals, they don't get awarded at the end of the game based on how much attacking you did - you score them, or in our case tonight you don't. Our fault.

Quit with the patronising nonsense as well eh? It's a disappointing defeat but part of the learning process, the only thing irking me is people make daft statements.
 
PS18 said:
Gill caused the second goal, the third goal was poor play by Dudgeon and a failure by the other defenders to get a tackle in. The first goal was sloppy from Norwood and the marking was poor. If you can't see how the defence can be blamed then I'm at a loss really.

I'm well aware of Chelsea's strengths and weaknesses and I'm not excusing the profligacy in front of goal at all, but the fact remains we were cruising at 1-0 and then switched off at the back at the worst possible time. That lack of concentration killed us more than any missed chance.
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I am not saying our defenders played great but it was not entirely their fault for the three goals. You defend as a team and the team failed. Norwood was responsible for a number of poor passes in his own half for example you cannot blame defenders for everything.

It was stewart who miss controlled the attempted cross for their third
 
PS18 said:
Results aren't decided on the balance of play, goals aren't awarded based on attacking intent or territorial advantage, that is the whole point. If you defend poorly and waste your chances then regardless of the balance of play you deserve to lose, it really is that simple.

Your whole reasoning for the defeat being harsh is that our attacking play deserved more than two goals, which is just a ridiculous statement. You don't 'deserve' goals, they don't get awarded at the end of the game based on how much attacking you did - you score them, or in our case tonight you don't. Our fault.

Quit with the patronising nonsense as well eh? It's a disappointing defeat but part of the learning process, the only thing irking me is people make daft statements.
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Pot meet kettle.

But hey, this really is pointless now. We now seem to be arguing the toss about whether or not getting a "fair result" is the same as getting a "deserved result". Which is splitting hairs to a ridiculous extent.

Good night to you, sir. May you get out of a different side of the bed tomorrow morning :smirk:
 
PS18 said:
Results aren't decided on the balance of play, goals aren't awarded based on attacking intent or territorial advantage, that is the whole point. If you defend poorly and waste your chances then regardless of the balance of play you deserve to lose, it really is that simple.

Your whole reasoning for the defeat being harsh is that our attacking play deserved more than two goals, which is just a ridiculous statement. You don't 'deserve' goals, they don't get awarded at the end of the game based on how much attacking you did - you score them, or in our case tonight you don't. Our fault.

Quit with the patronising nonsense as well eh? It's a disappointing defeat but part of the learning process, the only thing irking me is people make daft statements.
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well stop making them ....... somedays you get goals out of nothing sometimes you don't get the goals your play deserves and today was one of those.
 
RedPhil1957 said:
I am not saying our defenders played great but it was not entirely their fault for the three goals. You defend as a team and the team failed. Norwood was responsible for a number of poor passes in his own half for example you cannot blame defenders for everything.

It was stewart who miss controlled the attempted cross for their third
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It was Dudgeon who mishit the clearance that fell to Borini.

I don't really get your point - my point all along has been that we made serious defensive errors that cost us. It's not really important whether it's the defenders themselves making the errors (which they did for all three goals) or other players. Of course you defend as a team and I'm not blaming the defenders for everything at all. I stand by my view that we don't have a particularly good crop of defenders in the academy right now and they were poor at key moments tonight.
 
RedPhil1957 said:
well stop making them ....... somedays you get goals out of nothing sometimes you don't get the goals your play deserves and today was one of those.
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Point my daft statements out to me then please.

To dismiss it as one of those days does no-one any good, you reckon the coaching staff will be doing so? The team, the defence in particular, made key errors, they were put under more pressure than they needed to be by the attackers being wasteful.

'You don't get the goals your play deserves' is a lazy statement when you've missed your chances - fair enough if the keeper has made great saves every time but that isn't the case. None of Chelsea's goals were goals out of nothing either.

Glossing over the team's deficiencies is pointless. It's not the end of the world, player production is the ultimate aim at this level and shoddy defending/finishing in the youth cup will be irrelevant a few years down the line if some of these guys are in the first team. Nothing wrong with us pointing errors out though.
 
PS18 said:
It was Dudgeon who mishit the clearance that fell to Borini.

I don't really get your point - my point all along has been that we made serious defensive errors that cost us. It's not really important whether it's the defenders themselves making the errors (which they did for all three goals) or other players. Of course you defend as a team and I'm not blaming the defenders for everything at all. I stand by my view that we don't have a particularly good crop of defenders in the academy right now and they were poor at key moments tonight.
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Perhaps I mis-understood because I thought you were basically blaming the defenders for the defeat tonight which to me seemed harsh.

I agree we seem to have better attacking players at that level which is perhaps a good thing as we are blessed with a good crop of central defenders that bit older, and of course the Brazilian twins have strengthen the full back position.
 
PS18 said:
Point my daft statements out to me then please.

To dismiss it as one of those days does no-one any good, you reckon the coaching staff will be doing so? The team, the defence in particular, made key errors, they were put under more pressure than they needed to be by the attackers being wasteful.

'You don't get the goals your play deserves' is a lazy statement when you've missed your chances - fair enough if the keeper has made great saves every time but that isn't the case. None of Chelsea's goals were goals out of nothing either.

Glossing over the team's deficiencies is pointless. It's not the end of the world, player production is the ultimate aim at this level and shoddy defending/finishing in the youth cup will be irrelevant a few years down the line if some of these guys are in the first team. Nothing wrong with us pointing errors out though.
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Perhaps I missed it but I really did not see chelsea create very much yet they got 3 goals. But you obviously believe you always get what you deserve in life.
 
I'm blaming the defending overall for tonight's defeat (not entirely as obvious the finishing left a lot to be desired) but I'm also saying that in a wider context, we just are going through one of those cycles where the defensive talent in the academy isn't as good as it has been so such defensive lapses were always going to be a possibility.

It's not even particularly a criticism, it's just the way things fall. We might end up with some terrific defenders and average attackers in 2/3 years time, who knows. You can only work with what you're given. If there is a criticism it's perhaps that we didn't push harder over the summer to maybe bring in a real defensive talent to build the defence around.
 
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