ha no since the Benardo Silva incident I believe
FA to investigate Edinson Cavani | This thread is taking a break
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ha no since the Benardo Silva incident I believe
You’re telling me you guarantee that a black person hasnt been called negrito today in some U.K. school playground, and have justified use of the word?
Spanish speakers can speak as they wish inside their host cultures. But if certain words are legally problematic inside another country, yes they will have to adjust.
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You mean redefined by people who are constantly offended?
Has the text of the applicable FA regulations been posted here?
Its actually not, even if I don't particularly agree with it, its attempting to avoid offending others since its a public platform (not the recipient)
Well normally only those who have been offended can say so?
Or are you saying it’s up to offenders to define what is offensive?
Are you saying the N word or P word should shouldn’t have been ‘redefined’?
Yes I believe around the time of Bernado Silva incident
I think with all due respect, you kind of were. This is what you said:
It is totally inaccurate to say that a black person is just someone who happens to be a different colour in South America. And it isn't 'you did it, not us'. The 'you' you refer to were Brits, Spaniards, Portugese who ravaged the Americas and imported millions of black slaves across both continents. And made societies in their image from Europe and imposed their languages, ideas of race and, until this day, continue to have mostly 'white' leaders. So yeah I do think you have tried to divorce South American racism from European racism, as if the two are distinct.
I didn't say that negrito in these days has a negative connotation though as someone who is not a historian, I do not know if it historically did. I certainly heard negrito much much more than blancito whilst travelling across South America and don't remember much reference to lighter peoples' skin colour, as someone else has pointed out on here.
Yes they did abolish slavery for the unborn, not exactly a ground breaking act to ban the idea of unborn babies immediately being born as slaves. It wasn't formally and totally abolished until the 1850s or 60s, depending on how you view the status of slaves in BA (which was a huge hub for slaves from Africa to South America).
assumptions......assumptions. shall we base our entire position on assumptions?
from an previous case on CNN about the word Negrito, in different cultures.
"Chinea said his mother and stepfather, both of whom were light-skinned, frequently used the word.
“When they talked as a couple, my mother would say, ‘negrito, I love you.’ … I grew up listening to those expressions commonly being used by a lot of people in my community in Puerto Rico. And it was never associated with any color,” he said.
After he moved to the United States in the 1960s, Chinea said, the word took on a different meaning. Many of his acquaintances used racial nicknames, he said, but there was no harm intended.
“It was always more like a quick way of acknowledging the distinctiveness of that person in a very friendly way,” he said.
But Chinea said one of his Cuban colleagues in graduate school who employed the word drew criticism.
“When he used it and other people heard it, people came to me to complain. … In the United States, it sounds offensive to some people,” Chinea said.
In Uruguay, the meaning is clear, said U.S. radio talk show host Fernando Espuelas, who originally hails from the South American country.
“It’s not a slur whatsoever,” said Espuelas, whose show often addresses racism in the Latino community. “It’s a term of endearment. You definitely would not use that if you were angry. It would sound ridiculous.”
Can be used in many ways in many cultures, even sometimes for people who are not even black. I remember J-Lo said "Yo siempre seré tu negrita del Bronx" in a song to describe herself and people said "did J-Lo refer to herself as a little black girl" and got mad. It was a lesson not to translate things word for word as it meant something else in her Puerto Rican dialect. She clearly ain't black.
The world is far too complex to be policing other people's languages, especially if we don't speak or understand it. just doesn't make sense to do so.
since neither you or @africanspur native language is Spanish, this is kinda a moot point. Not to mention a terrible example
I'm saying that most people aren't actually offended. UK society is living through the lens of what the noisy left deem to be offensive and choosing the easy life in not arguing against it.
But while we're at it, why is the N word so prominent in rap culture? It's the language that's important after all, not context, right?
If the person who Cavani replied to is not offended, I don't see why the FA should get offended on their behalf.
Great point.
I can agree that Cavani should have been careful. But some posts in here are outright hilarious, asking everyone in the world to change their language.
There's a law that says you can't identify someone by the colour of their skin?
Not saying its right (or wrong, depending on context, meaning, language) but I didn't know there was a LAW that said that in the UK... your country so sure you know better.
20 years ago I was in Brazil working on nailing a big fat contract. My Portuguese was rudimentary, I pretty much spoke Spanish and added a lot of ção and inho here and there.
When it was finally wrapped up we arranged to go have dinner that night. One of the (quite stunning) ladies offered me a lift back to the hotel and in front of fifteen people I looked at her straight in the eye as I said "Thank you love, but could we briefly stop at the shopping centre so I can buy the proper condom that this celebration deserves"
Camisa = shirt
Camisinha = condom
Camisinha = condom
FML, watching their faces I reiterated the point that the occasion deserved a proper condom to celebrate with them all. Took me about five minutes to work it out and turn into a red beam.
Suarez basically said "I don't talk to blacks", using the word negro towards an opponent as an insult. Not even the close to being the same thing.
Think it more has to do with Troy Deeney being thick as shite and spouting of nonsense opinions for attention rather than being black. Such as his take on players themselves being the ones to decide if they want to get taken off after a head injury. Has been talking a lot of nonsense about United in general.
According to some on here the very utterance in any language of anything remotely sounding racist is punishable no matter the context.
I think you're wrong about this. What in the supposed rule change impacts how the Suarez-Evra case would have been interpreted? If the relevant rule is from section E3 of the FA Handbook, there is nothing in the passage from @UncleBob (copied again below) that wouldn't apply here. The Suarez-Evra ruling is precedent and I don't see how any penalty could be given to Cavani.
And here is the relevant portion of the FA rules (and link). Please feel free to correct if you think something else in the rules applies.
E3.1
A Participant shall at all times act in the best interests of the game and shall not act in any manner
which is improper or brings the game into disrepute or use any one, or a combination of, violent
conduct, serious foul play, threatening, abusive, indecent or insulting words or behaviour.
https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/fa-handbook
Without understanding what the word and the context in which it's used. Mental.
Black people and people of colour get called far worse than ‘negrito’ mate
Racist bullying goes on in secondary more than primary but you’re crediting kids with far more subtlety if you think that they’ll use that word instead of one that’s more common
great example of the intricacies of languages!Because it was an attempt by black people to claim the word as an attempt to remove its nastiness. This is not a new nor controversial subject.
If you don’t even understand such basic concepts like this, you really should’ve be engaging in this discussion with assertive opinions.
I can link you the whole doc: https://www.thefa.com/-/media/cfa/h...ardised-rules-for-steps-1-to-6-2019-2020.ashx
The relevant portion was posted sometime yesterday but to paraphrase you cannot refer to race, ethnicity, or sexuality
I'm not a native speaker in Spanish but was previously fluent enough to be able to work in Colombia and still retain a reasonable level now.
As I've said multiple times in this thread, I didn't love it but would never have dreamed to tell Colombians, or other South Americans, to change how they spoke. Similarly, as I've said, I wouldn't sanction Cavani either. Simple education would suffice.
But if someone tried calling me negrito in the UK, I wouldn't be particularly happy. Even if said in an endearing way by a friend.
For the millionth time, the expression does not exist in English. All that exists is the English word that sounds similar to it, and is deeply offensive in English speaking cultures. But that does not make the two things even close to the same.
Even using your line of thinking, which isnt that relevant in context.
I get referred to as Ging or ginger. I'm referred to based on my size. I'm referred to based on being pale.
Many people are referred to or acknowledged by many features. Not just black people.
In fact amongst a group of black friends I'd be referred to as the white guy too.
Link?
I understand it perfectly well, just as I understand that it is CONTEXT which allows it to be acceptable. Perhaps you should engage in the discussion by realising the fallacy of your logic.
I’m saying that some people will have been inspired by the discovery of the word yesterday (I never knew the word) and use the ‘Spanish context‘ as justification for using it, whilst actually intending racial hurt.
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I think he will get away with it because he said it in Spanish to another South American so the UK context is less significant. Also Suarez used a different word with an obviously hostile intent. Still dumb though.
Don’t use word negrito inside UK. Simple.
Posted above somewhere
Takes me back to some of the ridiculous mistakes and misunderstandings in my first few weeks in Colombia. I do love learning languages and it really opens your eyes to other cultures but it can get very stressful.That would be the most logical approach to this somewhat delicate situation, but you have to account for the fact that Cavani represents United, thus guilty by association.
An example will need to be made, especially with Black Lives Matter being so prominent right now, and who better than United to provide that?
If he has done anything against TheFA regulation he should be punished. We know what kind of organisation TheFA is.
There is lot of other discussion that should be brought up. Why, where, in what way and so on.
Last but not less important. People like Troy Deeney should just be quiet because he has a history that is not that beautifle.
There is lot of other discussion that should be brought up. Why, where, in what way and so on.
Last but not less important. People like Troy Deeney should just be quiet because he has a history that is not that beautifle.
Is it though? Or is it generally quite easy to be polite and mindful of others and, perhaps most importantly, if you do cause inadvertent offence, to take on board how and why and try to avoid it in the future if possible?
Whilst I do not agree with his view, I don't think past transgressions come into who can have a view on something now, especially if they have been moved on from and corrected.
Yes, when European languages have evolved within the societal context of slavery, white supremacy and embedded cultural racism, when those societies then decide to eradicate racism, their language absolutely has to also evolve or change.
No it isn't
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