Crikey, fastest in P1. Should be a fun race, bit different at least.
F1 2020 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
- Start date
Quality driver.
Early days yet, I suspect the times will get 2 seconds or so quicker than they are now by the time QUALY 3 is ended.
Definitely a good morale booster though for George, but FP1 is usually about nailing setups rather than times.
Definitely a good morale booster though for George, but FP1 is usually about nailing setups rather than times.
Bottas is having talent problems
Bottas heavily criticised but he is a team player, not one to stand in Hamilton's or Mercedes' way. Useful if unspectacular. Low ego, consistently good. A great partner for Hamilton.
Russell is the real deal, the unbelievable job he’s done at Williams and now showing exactly how seriously fast he is in a serious car. He’s up there with Hamilton & Verstappen. 3 fasted drivers on the grid.
Good for Mercedes, bad for Formula 1.
He’s the reason we have zero competition at the front.
True to form, Lewis and Mercedes are getting a hammering on Facebook, Russell doing so well apparently proves its all the car, and any Tom Dick Harry or indeed George can get in an win.
Odd that everyone really wanted one of the most young drivers to get a chance in the Merc. Now that a very talented driver is in, they’re forgetting the ‘talented’ part and think that everyone would smash it.
That is precisely why so many people are switching off from FB. Too many so called experts who actually know zero about anything.
I mean, yes? "everyone" would smash it with the mercedes right now. The car is that much better than the competition
That Russell *is* a very talented driver in no way changes that
Let’s be honest, Hamilton is a great driver but his statistics are massively inflated by Mercedes dominance. Mercedes 2014-2020 is the most dominant team in Formula 1 history. Lewis is not a better driver than Alonso or Senna and yet his statistics dwarf theirs.
Vettel vs Ricciardo is another example of how cars completely skew statistics. Vettel joined Red Bull just as their dominance began, Ricciardo joined Red Bull just as their dominance ended. That’s why Vettel has 4 titles while Ricciardo has none despite being easily as good of a driver.
This is why the GOAT debate in Formula 1 is fundamentally meaningless, the quality of your car decides 90% of the result.
Vettel vs Ricciardo is another example of how cars completely skew statistics. Vettel joined Red Bull just as their dominance began, Ricciardo joined Red Bull just as their dominance ended. That’s why Vettel has 4 titles while Ricciardo has none despite being easily as good of a driver.
This is why the GOAT debate in Formula 1 is fundamentally meaningless, the quality of your car decides 90% of the result.
As much as I really dislike Hamilton, the best drivers get the best cars.
He's clearly one of the best drivers on the grid and well up there in terms of best drivers of all time. Since Rosberg rattled him in 2016 he's added consistency to his talents and is deservedly winning championships since then.
It would be great to see a more competitive driver beside him to really test him but Mercedes don't need to do that unfortunately
The fact that Bottas has spent more years in the best car than either Alonso or Senna ever did shows that this is simply not true.
Don’t you think there is another side to this argument that Mercedes have such a good car because Hamilton is instrument in its development?
Prior to Hamilton, Mercedes were 4th 4th and 5th in constructor title. Hamilton first season they were 2nd and thereafter 1st.
Mercedes hugely increased their budget around 2013. Prior to that, Mercedes had about the same budget as Renault. Since the beginning of the hybrid era, Mercedes have outspend everyone including Ferrari.
Hamilton is indeed a great driver, but he is not better than the legends of the past. He’s simply enjoyed the best car for a longer period of time than any other driver in history.
Generally speaking, I don’t really judge drivers by statistics. The most impressive seasons I have ever seen from any driver are Senna 1993 and Alonso 2012. They didn’t even win the title in those years. Hamilton is on the same level as Senna, Schumacher and Alonso but he is not above them, in my view.
Hamilton is in the GOAT conversation but Mercedes' dominance has everything to do with the rule change.
Just like Bottas?
Nah. I think it was common knowledge that he was moving to Mercedes because with the 2014 reg change they were going to have a massive advantage by being one of the only teams who could design their engine specifically for their car. Only other team who could do that were Ferrari who were suffering massively around then with their wind tunnel.
I think Hamilton is amazing. He did well in poor cars, and he did is the best I’ve seen at controlling a race. He’s dominated team mates in a way only Schumacher before him has done before, and only reliability issues helped Rosberg win his title.I just don’t think he can get credit for the obvious car advantage Mercedes have had for past 7 years.
I think that's all most people would argue to be fair because the best drivers were at the top of their own respective eras. As you have said it's impossible to compare like for like, but Hamilton is up there with the best. I'd include a few others from prior era's as well, they are are more difficult to compare because the cars were so different.
Alonso is an interesting one though, as at his peak he was at least equalled by a completely inexperienced Hamilton. No doubt he could have won some championships in the right car, but it's a shame he left and didn't continue the battle with Hamilton for a while longer.
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Who is second in the championship, and finished second last year
Russell is clearly a very talented driver, one I have admired for years.
But it says a lot about the state of the rest of the cars (and the talent of his teammate) that he instantly topped the leaderboard the first time he ever sat in the car. He didn't even get to test it in preseason
But it says a lot about the state of the rest of the cars (and the talent of his teammate) that he instantly topped the leaderboard the first time he ever sat in the car. He didn't even get to test it in preseason
To be fair he hasn't really done anything yet. Practice sessions could have had any fuel load, instructions and are intended to find car settings. Hamilton has been a long way behind in these sessions and then won pole position in the qualifiers.
If Russell does manage to beat Bottas / win the race there's a few questions to be asked, agreed. Those questions may be more towards Bottas though within Mercedes.
Far far to early to be talking like that.
It's very much like greyhound racing where dogs can go fast in trials and not racing. However, lets take nothing of just how well Russell is doing. I think the bookies very much got this wrong as I have Max firm fav and already had to much on him.Rosberg won the title because he was more consistent that year. Hamilton had multiple bad starts off the line and Rosberg started the season in serious form. Formula 1 has always been about reliability, it's part of the package, so I never like when people say that Hamilton's reliability was the reason Rosberg won the title. He was a deserving champion that year
He's a good driver when it comes to shirt stints, it's no surprise he's topping the charts for practice.
Come race time and his tendency to have a lapse of concentration every now and than will haunt him. He doesn't get punished for it mainly because he's so used to driving the worst car on the track that it literally can't get worse for him.
To be fair, he's been driving a car with a Mercedes powertrain so will know 50% of how the gearbox/engine feels and how it delivers it's power etc.
Going from a Williams where you have to nail every corner perfectly to extract every bit of lap time will have been a huge training exercise - then you suddenly jump into a car that can do everything you ask but more, no wonder he's taken to it like a duck to water. This will feel like easy mode compared to the Williams of the last 2 years.
What he's done though is very impressive, to take to it so quickly and deal with the pressure for a young lad shows how talented and mentally ready he is.
I really don't see why people are using Russells good start to demean Hamilton though. Lots of drivers can do well for 1 weekend, but Hamilton's ability to turn a bad situation into a good is what makes him worthy of GOAT status.
Russell is also a highly talented driver with a huge future, hence why he's getting this opportunity in the first place. Make no mistake whoever leaves first out of Bottas or Hamilton, Russell will get their seat.
I'm going to put it out there but if Hamilton would have been driving in the Hill, Schumacher or Haakinen, Schumacher era or earlier he wouldn't be anywhere near that. Benz has been the GOAT and George is proving that. This car is a goddamn masterpiece. Hamilton is a great driver no doubt but the car is something else.
Bottas has been topping practice sessions all year to no avail. The race is on Sunday.
Turkey was 3 weeks ago!
F2 feature race is on in an hour. Mick Schumacher down in 18th after a crash with Nissany in qualifying. Illot in P9. Tsunoda on pole.
Shut the front door?
I have to agree. Hamilton is obviously a fantastic world class driver, but that car and engine has been so good for so long. Put Schumacher, even Alonso (who I would put below Hamilton) in that car and they would also win title after title.
Look at Vettel, who is obviously a legend but perhaps not in the GOAT conversation, but when he had the best car he won what? 4 in a row?
Hamilton had a great mercedes powered McLaren then moved to what would become the most dominant car of all time at Mercedes. You can't blame him for this, but you also can't forget he has spent his entire career driving title challangeing cars since his rookie season.
Damn. I really wanted Schumacher to win F2. Doesn't he need a decent result to seal the title?
Leads by 14 points. I expect him to come through the field.
Title challenging is a stretch, race winning is fairer (2009!). Still remarkable that he's won in every single season he's been in F1. We must also remember that at the time he was questioned for leaving a proven race winning team like McLaren, they have not won a race since he left. Mercedes were looking at the likes of Nick Heidfeld before signing Hamilton so it's not as if all the top drivers were banging their door down to get a seat there.
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Perhps I'm misremembering his rookie season, I thought he pushed Alonso and Kimi for much of the year. Maybe that was a later year.
You're not. He was ahead of 2 time champion Alonso until it fell apart a little in the last few rounds, and Kimi ended up winnng. He ended up tying with Alonso on points - a hugely impressive feat for a rookie.
Anybody who thinks Hamilton just lucked into it really have no idea.
2007 was the rookie year, he was leading the championship and lost it in the final round. Should have won it after his drive at Fuji. Definitely a championship winning car. Won it in 2008, the last driver to win a championship when his team did not win the constructors. 2009 was a big regulation change and McLaren ballsed it up with no double diffuser, car was competitive after Nurburgring. After that it was Red Bull domination but McLaren had competitive cars. 2013 he moved to Mercedes.