F1 2019 season

@Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87 have you started planning how your boom-bust cycle is going to look like this year? Entertaining as it was I think your strategy last year of giving up the entire season every single time Ferrari had a setback was a little over the top, so hopefully you'll show a bit more patience this time. ;)

As a fellow Ferrarista I would obviously love to never see the bust part, but even I can't be overly positive about Ferrari's chances considering what has happened over the past few years..
 
Zlaatan said:
@Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87 have you started planning how your boom-bust cycle is going to look like this year? Entertaining as it was I think your strategy last year of giving up the entire season every single time Ferrari had a setback was a little over the top, so hopefully you'll show a bit more patience this time. ;)

As a fellow Ferrarista I would obviously love to never see the bust part, but even I can't be overly positive about Ferrari's chances considering what has happened over the past few years..
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I promise i am only gonna judge the season on december, 1 st. No more knee-jerk reactions ;)
 
We need an rvn said:
Surely this has to be the year when McLaren get back on the podium!
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Definitely not. We're at least a year away from that I'd say, and even then maybe not. It would be sad, but I really wouldn't be surprised to see not them get on the podium until the new regulations in 2021 at least. They are still making changes internally which suggests they aren't too happy with the set-up and the driver line-up is the least inspiring I remember for this year (though I do like Sainz). I expect progress on the car, but they have a weaker driver line up so it'll probably even itself out. Certainly not expecting them to pull up any trees.
 
stu_1992 said:
Definitely not. We're at least a year away from that I'd say, and even then maybe not. It would be sad, but I really wouldn't be surprised to see not them get on the podium until the new regulations in 2021 at least. They are still making changes internally which suggests they aren't too happy with the set-up and the driver line-up is the least inspiring I remember for this year (though I do like Sainz). I expect progress on the car, but they have a weaker driver line up so it'll probably even itself out. Certainly not expecting them to pull up any trees.
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I know...I've been saying the sane for the last few years in hope it will happen though :(
 
So who is to blame for McLaren falling by the way side? Is it Ron Dennis? Martin Whitmarsh? Norbert Haug leaving Mercedes?

Seems so strange that a team so methodical and precise in its direction with enormous history and legacy in F1, suddenly just turned to shit. Bit like Williams F1 post 2005 (although their troubles really started in 1998).

I know the documentary on Amazon Prime directs part of the blame to a lack of key sponsors after Vodafone pulled out, but these guys were not quite the bottom of the tree when that occurred. So what the hell happened?
 
Combination of a number of things, the main catalyst was the creation of their road car division. It took resource, and focus away from the team. Some really poor management, in between some arrogance and decision by committee meant other teams were moving forward much quicker than they were.
 
Losing Merc works engine status right when the new engine formula kicked in was the body blow from which they've never recovered. Since then it's just been bad choice after bad choice.

'Cept the orange cars. That was great.
 
mariachi-19 said:
Except they had Mercedes Engines for 2014 and they were still shit.
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The key there word was "works", which was the whole reason they parted with Merc for the following season and thus continued on into their present, ongoing nadir. The 2014 season was actually pretty decent compared to what followed, multiple appearances in the top 5, including a double podium, and only 20 points off Ferrari in the constructors. But they believed it was impossible to get back to the top without works status, as Dennis said at the time.
 
Ubik said:
The key there word was "works", which was the whole reason they parted with Merc for the following season and thus continued on into their present, ongoing nadir. The 2014 season was actually pretty decent compared to what followed, multiple appearances in the top 5, including a double podium, and only 20 points off Ferrari in the constructors. But they believed it was impossible to get back to the top without works status, as Dennis said at the time.
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I think thats a cop out on behalf of Denis. McLaren are not a two bit outfit and even if they're not getting the cream of the crop machinery, that Mercedes Engine was lightyears above what they've been fed recently. Horrendous decision to go with Honda before seeing their engines in actual use, and if Redbull can win without works Renault Engines...

I've never liked McLaren and I was never the biggest fan of Ron Dennis and the way he poorly handled drivers, but McLaren are like Ferrari and Williams so its sad when you see where they currently are. You can lose Mercedes F1 tomorrow and nobody would give a flying feck much like BMW. Redbull are only now starting to get that mystique about them but even then, it'd be sadder to see Sauber leave the grid.


Btw, Sauber seriously dont get the credit they deserve for the length of time they've competed in F1 with little to no success. Most teams fall on their arse in those situations but they're still plugging away after 25 years.
 
mariachi-19 said:
Btw, Sauber seriously dont get the credit they deserve for the length of time they've competed in F1 with little to no success. Most teams fall on their arse in those situations but they're still plugging away after 25 years.
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They've always had very rich backers in Credit Suisse in the early days, giving them the time to plug away without success. Arguably their greatest success would be surviving after the BMW exit, to when they were bought in 2016.
 
Ubik said:
The key there word was "works", which was the whole reason they parted with Merc for the following season and thus continued on into their present, ongoing nadir. The 2014 season was actually pretty decent compared to what followed, multiple appearances in the top 5, including a double podium, and only 20 points off Ferrari in the constructors. But they believed it was impossible to get back to the top without works status, as Dennis said at the time.
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You say 2014. was decent, but in reality they were the slowest Mercedes powered team in the most dominant year for Mercedes in the hybrid era.

Then Honda PU came in 2015. and (according to their own words) their chassis became the best and stayed the best until the end of 2017. when they split with Honda.

Then Renault PU came and Mclaren was expecting to secure comfortable 4th. in 2018. and to be just behind Red Bull by the end of the season.
It didn't happen and their chassis went back to being crap again (like it was in 2013 and in 2014).

Incredible timeline indeed.

They were hiding behind a bad engine for 3 years never questioning themselves and just telling their bosses it's all down to those incompetent Japanese.
By 2018. mid season they fired Boulier and bunch of other people but maybe the biggest problem - Peter Prodromou is still there.

They'll never go back to where they were. If F1 goes back to simpler PU (where the likes of Cosworth can actually produce a competitive engine and have a business case where they sell it to 2 or 3 teams) and the aero investments are somehow put under control so the likes of Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull see no purpose in investing 40 million € in the development of the front wing for the new car, then F1 can go back to a time when garagista's had the chance of winning.

Obviously, that will never happen because Mercedes and Ferrari have Liberty by the balls and are running the show.
 
gaucho_10 said:
You say 2014. was decent, but in reality they were the slowest Mercedes powered team in the most dominant year for Mercedes in the hybrid era.

Then Honda PU came in 2015. and (according to their own words) their chassis became the best and stayed the best until the end of 2017. when they split with Honda.

Then Renault PU came and Mclaren was expecting to secure comfortable 4th. in 2018. and to be just behind Red Bull by the end of the season.
It didn't happen and their chassis went back to being crap again (like it was in 2013 and in 2014).

Incredible timeline indeed.

They were hiding behind a bad engine for 3 years never questioning themselves and just telling their bosses it's all down to those incompetent Japanese.
By 2018. mid season they fired Boulier and bunch of other people but maybe the biggest problem - Peter Prodromou is still there.

They'll never go back to where they were. If F1 goes back to simpler PU (where the likes of Cosworth can actually produce a competitive engine and have a business case where they sell it to 2 or 3 teams) and the aero investments are somehow put under control so the likes of Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull see no purpose in investing 40 million € in the development of the front wing for the new car, then F1 can go back to a time when garagista's had the chance of winning.

Obviously, that will never happen because Mercedes and Ferrari have Liberty by the balls and are running the show.
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First of all, wrong, they beat Force India in 2014. And I said the season was "pretty decent compared to what followed", which I think stacks up as correct.

And if McLaren thought they had the best chassis for three years, why would they have thought they'd only finish fourth, behind Red Bull? Or at the other end, if they were "hiding" their dodgy chassis behind the engine all this time, why would they have been hoping for such an uptick in performance? In reality, you're overstating something Alonso said after a good result at a chassis-heavy track in 2017. They basically thought their chassis was a fair bit better than they could show because the Honda engine was unreliable (McLaren's use of ICEs and MGUs went down this year, Toro Rosso's went up) and slow (Toro Rosso finished 9th this year, after having finished 7th in every other season under the current engine regs).

Now, they say the 2018 had a design flaw that wasn't apparent in 2017, which they also say has now been fixed for 2019. We'll have to wait and see on that. If it's still the same tumescent performance, serious alarm bells will ring (or rather, they'll continue ringing as they have been for years). And if Red Bull put in the Honda and push for wins and podiums straight away, McLaren will have to come to terms with having paid a lot of money to essentially be a rival's test mule for a few years. I'm also interested as to why Boullier, Morris and Goss left with Prodromou staying. Possibly the supposed flaw of last year was more to do with something on the engineering/mechanical side, or maybe they just can't afford yet another big payoff. Again, 2019 will be instructive. I'm happy with Seidl as the new de facto team principal, and James Key is about as good as the team can hope for as a technical director right now, so I'm hopeful there'll at least be an upward trajectory.

And as your last point is essentially that non-works teams are screwed for the foreseeable at the front of the grid, I guess we'll end in agreement!
 
utdalltheway said:
:lol: Mad alright.
Aside: watching formula E on Eurosport atm. Wtf is up with all the graphics?
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Hilarious.

In all seriousness though, I'm becoming quite the fan of Formula E. The racing is bonkers. That last race was like a demolition derby and the one before in Marrakeech was just all around brilliant entertainment.

Interesting that drivers like Massa and Vandoorne struggle so much.
 
Who's who in Formula 1 2019
TEAM DRIVERS & CAR NUMBERS
Mercedes Lewis Hamilton - 44 Valtteri Bottas - 77
Ferrari Sebastian Vettel – 5 Charles Leclerc - 16
Red Bull Max Verstappen – 33 Pierre Gasly – 10
Renault Daniel Ricciardo – 3 Nico Hulkenberg – 27
Haas Romain Grosjean – 8 Kevin Magnussen – 20
McLaren Carlos Sainz – 55 Lando Norris – 4
Racing Point Sergio Perez – 11 Lance Stroll – 18
Alfa Romeo Kimi Raikkonen – 7 Antonio Giovinazzi – 99
Toro Rosso Daniil Kvyat – 26 Alexander Albon – 23
Williams George Russell – 63 Robert Kubica - 88
 
pauldyson1uk said:
Who's who in Formula 1 2019
TEAM DRIVERS & CAR NUMBERS
Mercedes Lewis Hamilton - 44 Valtteri Bottas - 77
Ferrari Sebastian Vettel – 5 Charles Leclerc - 16
Red Bull Max Verstappen – 33 Pierre Gasly – 10
Renault Daniel Ricciardo – 3 Nico Hulkenberg – 27
Haas Romain Grosjean – 8 Kevin Magnussen – 20
McLaren Carlos Sainz – 55 Lando Norris – 4
Racing Point Sergio Perez – 11 Lance Stroll – 18
Alfa Romeo Kimi Raikkonen – 7 Antonio Giovinazzi – 99
Toro Rosso Daniil Kvyat – 26 Alexander Albon – 23
Williams George Russell – 63 Robert Kubica - 88
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I'm really pleased for Robert Kubica. The sheer mental challenge to overcome his injury and still come back to compete in F1 is amazing. I wasn't aware Alfa Romeo were racing. Are they a new team and what is their history? Who are Racing Point as well?
 
0le said:
I'm really pleased for Robert Kubica. The sheer mental challenge to overcome his injury and still come back to compete in F1 is amazing. I wasn't aware Alfa Romeo were racing. Are they a new team and what is their history? Who are Racing Point as well?
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Alfa - Sauber.
Racing Point - Force India.
 
Beautiful to me too - some aren't impressed it seems.
 
After losing names like Brabham, Tyrrell, Lotus and now Sauber it's nice to get one of the iconic liveries back even if it's on a Haas.
 
This is one stunning looking car.

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Changes for 2019

Changes to the cars
Simplified front wing, with a larger span
Perhaps the most significant addition. The previous front wings, though impressively intricate as teams varied with their aerodynamic approaches and upgrades, were also extremely complex with complicated endplates and wing elements.

The new front wing is 200mm wider, but has also been simplified in order to reduce turbulence. That should mean the cars can race closer together, thus increasing the chances of overtaking.


The FIA, the sport's governing body, are also hoping for a low 'outwash' potential - meaning less air is directed outside the wheels. If that's the case, the car behind will be able to get more grip to go through corners faster.

The front wing has also been brought forward by 25mm, which should help the consistency of its performance, while the height has been increased by 20mm to further increase its power.

Simplified front brake duct with no winglets
A simplified front brake duct works in tandem with the front wing, and the surface available for aerodynamic exploitation has been reduced. The change encourages designers to use the ducts for cooling, rather than aerodynamic gain.

The banning of 'blown axles', featured on the Ferrari and Red Bull cars from last year, will further smooth the airflow.

Wider and deeper rear wing
The taller, wider and simpler rear wings should generate more downforce at the back of the cars and improve airflow, allowing drivers to slipstream the cars in front more effectively.,

The rear wings can also now be fitted with a higher flap - which could increase the strength and power of DRS by 25 per cent.

How big an effect will the changes have?
The proof will be in the pudding at the season-opening Australian GP but Brawn, F1's managing director since 2017 and a leading technical mind who is widely regarded as one of the sport's most influential team bosses of all-time, has already said he is expecting a "tangible" difference in the racing this year.

"From predictions we're achieving about 20 per cent improvement," he explained, referencing a driver's ability to attack the car in front.

While the aerodynamic tweaks have been fast-tracked somewhat, Brawn has also insisted the new rules are "not just a one-stop solution", and are "very important for the next bigger step, in 2021."

Of course, not every team agrees.

Christian Horner, boss of a Red Bull team who have a knack of mastering fresh aerodynamic regulations, has frequently stated that he doesn't believe the changes will have the desired impact.

"They have cherry-picked something in isolation off a future concept for 2021, and rushed it through onto the current car," he told reporters earlier this week.

"Just taking a front wing and saying that will make racing better, it is quite a naive and ultimately expensive approach. And of course the burden of that expense is on the teams."

New rules, means pecking order shake-up?
Hugely beneficial to overtaking or not, even Horner has admitted that the new rules should have their benefits.

As the changes have forced teams to completely redesign their 2018 cars, they could result in a major shake-up in the pecking order.

Toto Wolff, who has led Mercedes' trophy-laden five-year streak, went as far to say the new regulations would have the "biggest impact" on the field.

"That will change everything upside down," the Silver Arrows chief said last year.

"Somebody might find a loophole or a regulation or understand how these cars work earlier than others so I think there is a big, big variable in those new regulations.

"We will have teams right up there that are not on the radar today."

Horner, meanwhile, added: "What I think will happen in the early part of the year is that some people will have got it right, and some people won't."

Teams will be hoping to follow in the footsteps of Brawn's own outfit, who entered the 2009 campaign as a new and rather unknown entity and finished it with both the drivers' and constructors' titles.

Brawn, coming off the back of extremely successful tenures with Benetton and Ferrari, bought out the withdrawing Honda team at the end of 2008 to form 'Brawn GP, and immediately took advantage of the following season's aerodynamic regulations, with his team winning eight of the 17 races.

Could anyone follow suit this year and significantly improve their car?

"They are simplifying the cars quite a lot so we've lost quite a lot of performance initially - I believe that's the case for everybody - but we have regained a chunk of this performance," said Marcin Budkowski, technical chief of Renault, who finished fourth last year.

"In terms of mixing the playing field, we feel that the top teams will have lost more than us.

"But they are also better equipped to regain it quicker."

The aerodynamic changes aren't guaranteed to give us better racing, but they will certainly provide added intrigue to pre-season testing and the start of the season.
 
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