Still nobody has been able to point to a rule supporting the calls for a ban or DQ.
F1 2017 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
- Start date
I don't think Hamilton did anything wrong either. Vettel felt he did, acted out, got a penalty for it. My only concern here is that there should be a rule for it. If there was and he got DQ, fair enough. But the way the world works now, if it isn't in writing, you can't decide on your own. (Trust me, I hate this about certain aspects of life, especially in my job).
Thats why my first question was is there any history of DQ's being handed out. Honestly, if you see any other form of racing, a bit of aggression doesn't get made in to such major issues. Yes, open wheelers are more sensitive to damage. But ramming him like that wasn't going to kill him or cause any injury. They were hardly moving.
But its good to have some drama back in F1. This is what makes sporting events fun. Sets up the rest of the season well. We will have to wait and see just how much of a difference this race will make.
Senna V Prost
Schumi V Hakkinen (Still the best for me)
Schumi V Montoya
Vettel V Hamilton..
From what I've read, disqualifications tend to be caused by a clearly measurable metric like weight limit exceeded, leaving pit lane when red light is on, that sort of thing. It's pretty rare for a driver to be disqualified for lets say, "erratic behaviour" which is open to interpretation, as evidenced in this thread.
Yes drivers get away with lesser penalties for hitting other cars, forcing them off track etc. under full racing conditions. But in those instances, they are attempting to gain a competitive advantage.
And this is where I think this incident differs from those. There was absolutely no intention by Seb to gain an advantage by pulling alongside Lewis and indulging in a bit of road rage.
It's this lack of precedent which is muddying the appropriate response.
Personally I think the stewards got it spot on in penalising Seb by some 30 seconds. He behaved like a cock and got a slap for it.
If Lewis hadn't had the loose headrest issue, he would probably have won that race and the punishment would have felt more appropriate in that he would have gained loads of points over Seb. Also the 3rd red flag helped Seb as he could get the damaged nose replaced and that didn't really help in terms of how things washed out.
There's no need for any further action. 3 points on his licence and dropped points is punishment enough for, lets face it, was an incident which was frankly hilarious, caused no damage (other than to his own car) and has had the effect of rejuvenating this years' drivers championship.
Seb probably wouldn't want to do that again though...
Pretty much.
Maybe there isnt one, but that doesnt mean the rules are right
i'd argue there should be one for gross unsporting behaviour. Obviously in footy there are red cards for violent conduct, you'd think it would make sense to have an equivalent one in F1.
Thats kind of what the points system is. Gain enough points, and your banned for 1 race.
Sure, but I feel the penalty should have been straight DQ in Vettel's case. Stewards were too lenient IMHO.
So the stewards should have made up a rule?
Perhaps worth pointing out that the first hit damaged Hamilton's car, he was missing downforce for the rest of the race.
Yeah that's a fair point.
In my mind there were 2 separate incidents.
I would argue that you could categorise the 1st one as a racing incident in that both drivers were attempting to gain an advantage/control the situation. I didn't think it warranted any punishment as, under those particular circumstances, it was an understandable mistake from Vettel.
I know you can argue that Hamilton did nothing wrong and even though it has been proved he did nothing more than not accelerate, I have some sympathy for Vettel here as in the previous (2?) restarts, he'd almost been overtaken.
So Vettel was definitely staying closer to Hamilton to avoid another repeat at the restart and Hamilton was controlling the pace to maximise his chances at the restart and for those reasons, it just comes across more like a racing incident to me.
So yes you're right, Hamilton did lose downforce for the rest of the race but in my mind, the situation that caused that damage, was simply a racing incident.
I think it was the 2nd incident that Vettel was punished for and I still feel that the stewards got that right. Even if in retrospect it seemed he got away with it a bit because of the other issues which pushed Hamilton down the order.
But that wasn't Vettel's fault so it's difficult to make a case for further punishment, certainly under the current rules/guidelines.
No, but if a DQ cannot be applied within the existing rules/regulations then maybe they should look at that. Going off the commentators from various sources I didn't get the impression that the stewards didn't have the choice of a DQ for such an incident but that they chose not to apply it, rightly or wrongly, which is obviously a matter of opinion. If the regs aren't explicit enough then modifying them would be an option.
No British GP after 2019 ?
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12...-activate-a-break-clause-in-their-f1-contract
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12...-activate-a-break-clause-in-their-f1-contract
Find out today if Seb gets any more punishment for Baku.
At the time the punishment was not enough, but thats what they gave and they should stand by it, my gut feeling is that he will be DNQ from the race and his points taken away.
At the time the punishment was not enough, but thats what they gave and they should stand by it, my gut feeling is that he will be DNQ from the race and his points taken away.
Not sure they can really go wrong with any decision, a solid case for both outcomes. I feel he deserves his points stripped personally, which isn't too big of a deal really.
Think we just find out whether the investigation will continue today, don't think we'll know of any potential punishment for a while yet.
you could be right,
The controversial clash in last Sunday's Baku race between the championship rivals will be "further examined" this coming Monday, July 3, "in order to evaluate whether further action is necessary".
The outcome of those discussions will be revealed before the Austrian GP, which takes place on July 7-9.
Unless there is a specific rule that states a different punishment they should let it go. 10s (~30s in reality) was nonsense but if there isn't a rule they shouldn't make one and retroactively punish. They should make a rule if there isn't one to prevent it from happening again.
Exactly what i read today. It could go on for months.
No penalty! Get in there! Would have been unfair!
http://www.fia.com/news/fia-official-statement-following-2017-azerbaijan-grand-prix
http://www.fia.com/news/fia-official-statement-following-2017-azerbaijan-grand-prix
Did not agree with the penalty at the race thought he should have been Black flagged, but they bottled it for whatever reasons, but totally agree with today's judgment, to punish him again would of just made the FIA look stupid ( if that is even possible) and to punish him twice would be just wrong.
If was only looked at again because of Max spouting what he thought.
If was only looked at again because of Max spouting what he thought.
I wonder if he does really...
Following detailed discussion and further examination of video and data evidence related to the incident, Sebastian Vettel admitted full responsibility.
Following detailed discussion and further examination of video and data evidence related to the incident, Sebastian Vettel admitted full responsibility.
I would like to think he does, the incident was 100% his fault, hopefully that is the end of it.
The FIA said in a statement Vettel had "admitted full responsibility" and "extended his sincere apologies to the FIA and the wider motorsport family.
"In light of these developments, FIA President Jean Todt decided that on this occasion the matter should be closed," it concluded.
Vettel admitted he had over-reacted after running into the back of Hamilton's car behind the Safety Car in a statement released on his website.
"With hindsight, I don't believe he had any bad intentions. In the heat of the action I then overreacted, and therefore I want to apologise to Lewis directly, as well as to all the people who were watching the race. I realise that I was not setting a good example," he said.
Bit more on the Vettel/Hamilton incident. Vettel admits Hamilton didn't brake test him.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/40522876
"My only point was that saying I had brake-tested him, I hoped he could correct that because people watching would think I had. That was not the case.
"In fact, he accelerated. It was an error of judgement. I said I hoped he made that clear. I had no intentions to do that. There was no need.
"There wasn't actually an apology in the conversation we had, even if that was maybe the intention. The next day when we were texting there was an apology and I did accept it."
Vettel said he had been caught out by the differing speed in the cars as they exited Turn 15 preparing for a restart after a safety car period.
"At the time I was surprised," he said. "It felt like Lewis hit the brakes and I couldn't stop hitting the car. But I don't think he actually brake-tested me. At the time I read it like that."
http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/40522876
"My only point was that saying I had brake-tested him, I hoped he could correct that because people watching would think I had. That was not the case.
"In fact, he accelerated. It was an error of judgement. I said I hoped he made that clear. I had no intentions to do that. There was no need.
"There wasn't actually an apology in the conversation we had, even if that was maybe the intention. The next day when we were texting there was an apology and I did accept it."
Vettel said he had been caught out by the differing speed in the cars as they exited Turn 15 preparing for a restart after a safety car period.
"At the time I was surprised," he said. "It felt like Lewis hit the brakes and I couldn't stop hitting the car. But I don't think he actually brake-tested me. At the time I read it like that."
Saw it earlier, glad vettel has admitted it was his fault, still don't like him though.
Vettel couldn't bring himself to admit he deliberately side swiped Lewis though he didn't deny it lol. Lewis still looked mega pissed to me. Thought Massa summed it up well, when he said Seb was lucky to get away with it so lightly.
Sky have been smashing into Vettel on the midweek report etc., and and wasn't surprised to see Pinkham ask Seb if he thought he had an anger management problem! Will be interesting to see how he handles the rest of the season, since it's clearly a personality issue (in car) and it can't be easy changing the nature of the beast.
Sky have been smashing into Vettel on the midweek report etc., and and wasn't surprised to see Pinkham ask Seb if he thought he had an anger management problem! Will be interesting to see how he handles the rest of the season, since it's clearly a personality issue (in car) and it can't be easy changing the nature of the beast.
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This is reminiscent of last year with the engine failures. I have a feeling something will happen every time things look good for him. Last race was the rest and this race the gearbox. Meanwhile Vettel keeps grabbing the all important points.
Ferrari has looked far more solid than Mercedes since the start of the season, tbh.
Sainz SR seems to be stirring the pot with those Verstappen to Ferarri rumours.
I am reading Ricciardo to Ferrari and Sainz Jr. to Red Bull.
Even if Lewis gets pole, starting from 6th , he will have his work cut out to win, fecking grid pens.
Gearbox faults are not down to the driver , it should be the team not the driver who takes the penalty,
Gearbox faults are not down to the driver , it should be the team not the driver who takes the penalty,
Well they are obviously razor thin margins and they weigh up the risk to extra performance ratio. By pushing it too far they've given Hamilton a faster car so you could argue all's fair.
They have indeed
It is difficult to overtake here.
Said everyone before every F1 race
Track's record for Seb.
Q1 underway, I wonder if the new disks and pads will affect the balance of Lewis's car.